Reverend Wayne Perryman has been busy promoting his new book, Whites, Blacks and Racist Democrats
31 Mar
The Other Side of “the Race Card”
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Wednesday, March 31st, 2010 at 5:49 am | 4,215 views
Wow – That just made my day.
Awesome!
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Very good. I want his books.
That is a man that knows his history….I will have to see about getting his books very soon
what a wonderful way to start my day, I will post this video also.
Truely wonderful like a refreshing breeze.
Thank you, Word! Now, I have two more books to read. I hope I am able to meet the Reverend Perryman some day.
As a small boy, I listened to my grandmother tell me in hushed tones, as if the wrong people might overhear her, of how members of her family who worked on the Underground Railroad, an entire family group, had been killed with axes in their home on their farm one night near the Kentucky Tennessee border. The murders took place 25 years before her birth and she was still frightened of revenge as an elderly adult. I am sure she wanted me to know the story so that the oral history of our family would be preserved; but the fear and the enormity of the situation was passed on, so that now 60 years later, that former little boy has only recently begun to tell his children and grandchildren the story of the brutal murders on the Underground Railroad. Surely, the fear will be lost from my voice; however, the tragic and symbolic significance will hopefully live on for a few more generations.
In my opinion, Obama and his race baiters, exploit and marginalize the sacrifices of countless people who risked everything and sometimes died for the freedom of others. They are little more than pimps who have no respect for the true unknown heroes of racial equality; who create racial strife to further their personal political agendas and to quench their insatiable greed, these racial pimps do major damage to this country and its heritage by leading astray those of limited intellectual resources, those who are easily degraded and debauched into seeing injustice where there is none. For that, these race pimps’ behavior borders on criminal; especially while they espouse a saintly and sanctimonious piety that makes their charade even more disgusting to those who see through their licentious and dissolute depravity.
If the race-baiter’s and hustlers actually worked to achieve what they claim to want, they’d be out of their million-dollar jobs.
THAT’S why they must change history, and keep the wounds open, even if it means new cuts.
GREAT FIND AND FANTASTIC POST – THANK YOU!
Had he thrown in that there were black slaveholders in the New Orelans area during the War between the States that volunteered to fight for the South would have been icing on an already great cake.
Lol…this post almost didn’t get made, since I was too lazy to add any commentary of my own, and figured most people are already familiar with Wayne Perryman. One of his other books, Unfounded Loyalty, seemed hard to find and expensive not too long ago; I assumed it was out of print, but notice it’s come down in price, offered through his website.
Also note this partial list of Democratic Party history of racism and where Republicans stood as champions in the civil rights struggle.
Of course, neither party is pure on the matter, and people are people; but only one political party has been slandered and smeared with the “racist” label and reworking of history for the last 40 years.
@Skookum: Thanks for sharing that story.
Well, you will be able to add onto the story when you pass it down, mentioning how your grandmother told it to you in “hushed tones”.
This will never be viewed by those that want, and expect something for nothing. This is the truth!
Wordsmith
You might also want to check out who sold the slaves from Africa in the first place. I am not in any way pardoning those who bought the slaves on our side of the Atlantic, but I believe it is widely thought of, especially within the black community that slaves were rounded up by whites, sold by whites and only owned by whites. That assumption and belief by the black community is solely due to the lack of education, which the good Rev. Perryman so rightly condemns.
Some quick hits:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1narr4.html
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/slavetrade.htm
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/slav/hd_slav.htm
http://www.africaeconomicanalysis.org/articles/38/1/Slave-trade-a-root-of-contemporary-African-Crisis/Page1.html
An excerpt from that last one:
If we were to use the race baiters version of events and outlook on things, only the whites, and all whites at that, were responsible for slavery and subsequent racism, yet, knowing about the history of slavery, we can see that the blame goes far beyond than a simple color.
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I’m not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but today I saw an ad for an upcoming series on the history channel. It was about the Nazis. I have come to the realization that the democracts are more like Nazis than originally thought. They want the conservatives annihilated by any means possible so they can completely take over with no dissention. Cue light bulb!
Some of you may think this is far-fetched, but look what is happening on a daily basis. Conservatives are being physically attacked, they are being intimidated with vicious emails and voice messages, and are accused of horrendous things that are outright lies. America needs to wake up before it is too late, and we are going to be forced to live in fear more so than we already do.
Madalyn
Madalyn, you’re not the only one who has come to this train of thought. Hard left supporters of Obama, and some local residents here and where I live, encourage and support the full idea of politicaly silencing all form of opposition be it though physical force or though more subtle means (such as healthcare aka Soviet style solutions).
Ever since my Highschool years, I have seen fellow students taught the concept of “Bill Clinton cool, Republicans and Conservatives bad.” Just for expressing conservative ideals in my school, I was shut down as a Pariah and even physicaly abused and verbaly assaulted for it. Yet they claim themselves enlightened?
BRILLIANT! I can’t wait for this book to come out!
friggin awesome… I JUST ORDERED HIS BOOK!
This was so good, I OT-ed ALL THESE FORUMS to link here:
Ace of Spades HQ
Andrew B’s
-Big Government
-Big Hollywood
-Big Journalism
IHateTheMedia(dotcom)
Michelle(RPbuh)Malkin -(rosepetals, ok?)
and Pajamas Media.
No, no, you don’t have to send me a check. But thanks anyway! This is near and dear to my heart, this issue. The greatest deception ever pulled on a group of people. Started in 1963-64, with the twin abominations:
A: The assassination of JFK by a leftie communist Russian citizen which the VERY NEXT DAY was cast by the media and the Atty General of the US as a racial hatecrime, and this meme was pushed by every lefty avenue since, utterly DELETING the truth of Oswald from history. (I went to a 80% black school, I learned all the stuff Rev. Perryman is talking about WAY THE HELL AFTER SCHOOL, and ABSOLUTELY NONE OF IT in school.)
B: Goldwater (R) being against the CRA of 1964 while being the RNC candidate for president, DESPITE THAT MOST REPUBS WERE FOR IT, and MOST DEMS WERE AGAINST IT, this man made it possible for the dems to completely switch the black public’s view.
The Dept. of Education is the USSR’s greatest coup.
Thanks, Taqiyyotomist.
@johngalt #12: Thanks for reminding people.
You should check out this debate I had with Gaffa, beginning around comment #10. Didn’t realize until now that he got in the last word. Now that he’s back, maybe if I have the energy I’ll go back there and address his last reply; although really, we’re pretty much going in circles, there.
Obama said to CNN flunkette Alice Cooper ( I think that is her name?) that while in Ghana, he saw many blacks selling black children, but made no comment about this autrocity.
In fact, it may have been a natural thing that blacks use other blacks as slaves in this age.
But we all know Obama is no law scholar, he knows street thug discorse,though.
Thank the good ole American white men who invented the intertubes and nearly every valuable invention, and for someone of color to notice we haven’t been sitting on our hands.
I knew most of this. Very refreashing to hear. I seek truth wherever I go. That is what I also try to spread and when others try to tell me that I am the racist. I pity them for they are sooooo ignorant of the truth. Spread this around as the truth MUST be told. I gotta go buy a book now.
@Wordsmith
There is a show on NBC that my wife and I watch called “Who Do You Think You Are?” on Fridays. The show traces roots of celebrities. In one episode Emmitt Smith traced roots back to Africa(his ancestors were slaves) and learned of slave trading still going on today. Guess who is doing the selling? That’s right. Fellow africans. Gaffa probably didn’t learn in school the fact that most slaves were sold by fellow africans to white or other black slave traders since that convenient fact is left out of the history they teach in today’s revisionist school system. It would be an “Inconvenient Truth” (to steal a title from one of the dimwits) for it to be known that blacks were hating on blacks and still are. The race baiters of today try to keep that info out of the public education so as to be able to further their use of the race card.
As for Gaffa, I don’t expect him to show up here to discuss this, especially when those links I provided were but a very small sample of info across the net.
I think I’m in love… This man is great!
@Madalyn: I have been following the History Channel as well. I have become (I thought I was pretty well educated about WWII) immersed in everything WWII lately; documentaries as well as historical dramas such as the DVD series based on “The Winds of War” and “War and Remembrance” by Herman Wouk. That led me to “Army of Shadows” about the French Resistance…there’s a lot out there. And yes, as Jews were to the Nazi’s, Conservatives are to the Leftists.
On the same topic of racism though…this may not be news to many but it was to me. A few weeks ago, I had to go to San Francisco (I try to avoid it) for a baby shower for my new grandson due this month. I expected most of the people there to be for 0zer0 and pretty much decided I’d have to stay away from politics. I was surprised to say the least when one of the guests, whom I not met before, engaged in a conversation (I asked about his children) with me about their 12 y/o daughter’s education in…Berkeley. They have been there for 11 years and have been trying to sell their house since the beginning of the downturn to get out of PC Berkeley. Dad lost two jobs with the P. O. because of affirmative action; Mom is self employed and struggling with the economy.
When the girl entered a new school this year, her first friend was a black girl in her class. There’s no American History taught in Berkeley (Thomas Jefferson School was changed to Malcolm X), only Ethnic History and even that is made into a hateful attack on whites. One of the first “exercises” the class was engaged in was splitting the students into two groups…White Slave Owners on one side and Black Slaves on the other. You can guess what the indoctrination was…and by the time they were finished, their child’s Black friend wouldn’t have anything to do with her. Soon after, she was walking alone at school when another student came up and hit her…hard. They went to the Principal to demand the offender be disciplined but were told that the “minority child was not to blame for being angry because English was not her first language.” They are waking up the hard way…in the belly of the beast. I was glad they felt I was safe to talk to…they say they can’t open their mouths in their neighborhood or anywhere in public in Berkeley. I always knew it was really bad/sad in the Bay Area but 0zer0 has emboldened the Left to go to extremes even for them. I read Robin of Berkeley on American Thinker who has addressed a lot of the unbelievable PC morons she has to deal with…bad as it sounds written, it’s even worse with someone in person. And, it’s spreading.
I am sorry White America,This guy has to be the most short sighted, ignorant Black Republican to have a forum I have ever heard. While not disputing his facts and also not defending President Obama,to actually say with a straight face that America has never been a racist country because some whites have fought for the rights of slaves is utterly ridiculous, Ask yourself Bloggers who agree or disagree with the good reverend here,Do you TRULY believe that America has never been racist to Black Americans? Ok, now that we have that out of the way. For him to deny what he himself I am sure has witnessed first hand, but turn a blind eye to every black man and woman that ever suffered whether it be from outright racism (KKK, segregation,slavery,etc) or covert racism ( Ghettos,Crack,profiling,etc) Is utterly disgusting for any black person that knows to ever do. While Black people definitely need to take more initiative in uplifting them selves. I cant help but feel that it is designed to be that way, I’ve spent time in the south where in some corners not only do blacks not know the essentials for being successful in our beloved country but also feel as if they are not even suppose to consider being successful in the same way as white America. And blacks across the whole country have actually been known to look down on successful blacks with disdain and jealousy thus the name Uncle Tom and phrase” trying to be white” come from. If white America did not continue to perpetuate these feelings even after slavery was abolished would this even be an issue that still plagues the black community to this day? America decided after slavery that ok we freed these slaves (Due to European pressure,but thats up for debate) but no way are they going to live the same way as us. Why Reverend Perryman that is what you call institutionalized Racism By our beloved America. And are you willing to submit that a country that went to war with itself to keep slavery intact or not,that the losers of said war would not still harbor ill will towards blacks.Reverend Perryman seems to be very astute in his knowledge of history but I believe his use of his knowledge is aimed in the wrong direction,All of these fears of what President Obama is trying to accomplish have NOT been proven as of yet,fears that so far seem drummed up in a RNC and tea party smear campaign. Why is America so impatient with Mr. President’s agenda?We’ve let lesser presidents talk us into what is known now as a falsified war but we are combating a healthcare right for every American?
I can’t help but want to give the president of our great nation the benefit of the doubt and take him for his word, I will continue to do so until he betrays that trust,Something he has yet to do contrary to what FOX news reports. In closing i have a little food for thought fellow bloggers. If Tiger Woods was a Football player with a black wife and all black mistresses. Would it be as big of a story? or a story at all?
@Dwight:
He’s not saying racism itself doesn’t exist (heard him on the air say as much); but that the country itself is no more racist than any other country on the planet. America is not uniquely guilty of slavery and/or racism.
What he is opposed to is the demonization of “white folk” as enemies of blacks. Some people, who never were slaves nor even had slave ancestors in this country, walk around, carrying a chip on their shoulder and perceive victimization and persecution to this day by “white” America. And they are told a lopsided, distorted view of American history that sees our nation founded upon racism, imperialism, and genocide. When asked if the world would have been better off had America never existed, Howard Zinn replied, “Yes.” I believe that indoctrinated view, shared by so many Americans who grew up on the Zinn-Chomsky worldview of American history, damages us every bit as much, and more so, than the belief that America can do no wrong.
I believe that individuals are racists. But the nation as a whole? On policy and legislation issues, the trend throughout American history has trended toward the direction in which we stand today.
You know, you presume much from a 13 minute video excerpt from a lecture. He’s not “denying” atrocities. But he is acknowledging the help of white folk in the fight against racist attitudes; whites who gave their lives in defense of blacks.
Dwight,
It is DEMOCRATS and their Reverends Sharpton-Wright-Jackson race profiteers who perpetuate those feelings of resentment and hatred and scapegoating and victimization. And part of that is by portraying America as a racist country.
Yeah, let’s hear that debate, Dwight.
Dwight, first your analogizing is partisanly flawed (am happy to debate the “falsified war”, OT claim). Opposition to Obama is about his politics. He is the most far-liberal president we have ever had. His skin color, if anything, helped get him elected.
Opposition to healthcare isn’t about “keeping the black man down, sick, and impoverished”.
Food for thought: Is Jesse James black? I didn’t know. Is John Edwards? I didn’t know that.
Yet if Tiger Woods is receiving greater coverage than they, it has nothing to do with his color. Woods is quite simply a HUGE sports celebrity, and household name, which trumps being James being married to a famous actress and a politician who was a presidential candidate. More people know who Tiger Woods is.
Was Tiger Woods a celebrated hero to many Americans? Yes he was; and probably still is. And, dude…it has little to do with his skin complexion. Many blacks look up to him, however, on account of his melanin count.
And they will make excuses on behalf of a murderer like O.J. Simpson…because of being black.
Dwight,
I suggest you read my debate with Gaffa, regarding whether or not America’s founders were a bunch of white racists.
Dwight
While I understand everything you are saying, I would submit that you, yourself, are perpetuating the stereotypes present in today’s society. You may not intend to do it, but by your words, you connect ALL white people with racism towards blacks. The reverend is simply pointing out that the belief among the black race baiters and their complicate media that the race card is acceptable to use to get your way, is wrong and is disingenuous to the history of racism and blacks as a whole in america. None of us here will deny the existence of slavery, white racism groups, nor discrimination, including your described “institutionalized” racism in america. We know it happens. What we will deny is that it is purely and solely the fault of the conservatives, GOP and right-wing of the political spectrum while giving a complete pass to the side that most perpetrated the crimes of racism in our history.
I will repeat: The left has been given a pass on racism in america. Why, you ask? Because for years the one political party that most opposed integration, and civil rights, including voting, for blacks and other minorities was the democrat party. The country as a whole doesn’t desire, or need, a pass on racism or slavery. We recognize a sad chapter in america’s existence, but we won’t be silenced either just because the race card is applied. I submit to you that the worst all of us are continuing to perpetuate on black america the chains of bondage and that they aren’t any different than the black slave masters of africa, willingly placing their brothers and sisters in bondage, but this time to the state. I say that because they have continually done nothing for black america but further the use of the race card to excuse behaviour, and excuse the plight of the inner city dwellers.
The Rev. Perryman is simply reminding people that a major reason that slavery is ended and civil rights are, in fact, a right to black americans as well, is due to whites in america. As for our president, he is no better than Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton when it comes to race relations in america. He, and his supporters, play the race card whenever possible to further their own agenda. To me, that is belittling, and condescending to black america and pride itself should be enough to prevent the black man and woman from accepting his “help”. Most, and I only say most because I cannot speak for all, of us here when talking about politics do not place color anywhere in the equation. When we speak of americans, we include all americans, of all color. Why do you think we get so upset at the inferences included in the 2010 census survey asking about color? It is because we consider all citizens of our country to be Americans with no hyphenation. That, to me, is more inclusive and non-discriminatory than to place that hyphenated label to blacks, or hispanics, or asians, or the native americans, or even the separate euro divisions of america.
This president could done a great service to our country by one simple thing and that is the removal of the racial divides in the country, but instead, he only continues the separation of the races by dividing us using the race card. Quite disgusting if you ask me.
Dwight
As for your last question, myself, much like Wordsmith said, looked up to Tiger Woods, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with his race. Being a sometime duffer myself, I longed to be able to hit the golf ball like he does, and admired him for his personal ethics(up to the point of the cheating on the wife, but again, no one is perfect and many otherwise good and great americans fail at portions of life), and I can overlook his personal failures and not demonize him because he was a black man with a white wife. Race has nothing to do with the story. It is due to the greatness of Tiger as a golfer, a man atop the world in his profession that the story got as much publicity.
GOOD MAN! HE SHOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT HIMSELF!
Mr. Wordsmith
Your first statement is flawed in it’s self the fact that America was ever in a racist state is hypocritical to its existence, remember it was built upon the belief that all men are created equal (except blacks) If America had kept to its word from its inception their would not be the significants of MLK, Jackie Robinson and the other great blacks who challenged the racist system in place in America.
As far as those so called lopsided views that you say the new to America blacks receive, Mr Wordsmith, believe it or not they are true. Once we can look ourselves in the mirror and agree that yes we are the greatest country in the world but the way we got there was not true to our ideals,the better off we will be as far as race relations are concerned.
Policy and Legislation Of course is not the end all be all of institutionalized racism, What blacks in our country have witnessed is the Americans in power (Whites) with a perceived deservedness of more rights than those not in power (Blacks) through out the course of history.
As a history buff myself, I am not denying the fact that many whites championed the black cause through out the history of the United States but, the shame of our country is that they had to do it at all, the worst thing I believe we can do is deny our history for we will be doomed to repeat it.
While not a fan of Rev Sharpton,Rev Jackson or Rev Wright, ask yourself would they exist if they were not deemed necessary by someone who felt the same way they do because at some point in time they experienced some form of racism and felt they did not have a voice to tell the world that this is wrong and blacks should be treated better than this.
My debate for European pressure on America to abolish slavery can be read in the “Unfinished nation” by Alan Jennings here is a link to an excerpt that proves that point – http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0072879130/student_view0/chapter12/america_in_the_world.html
Your opposition to Healthcare reform is very interesting because I’ve never thought of it as
you said “keeping the black man down, sick, and impoverished”.Are you implying that Tea party oppositions believe that the Tea Party believes blacks and other minorities are the only uninsured and under insured that Health care reform will effect positively? I’ve always thought it was based in tax increases or cuts ( depending on which pundit you listen to ) But it is very interesting where your frame of mind is regarding what you believe it is, Its almost insensitive to believe Blacks and other minorities are that short sighted
As far as the Tiger Woods situation , the fact I am trying to make is while like you said Tiger Woods is a bigger than life figure and he did let a lot of people down religiously speaking.A lot of people whether you recognize it or not are taking what he did personally, What he did is what most athletes,rock stars and actors have been doing for as long as their were fans. Why is everybody so shocked and hurt by what has transpired he’s not the first and will not be the last, but he is arguably the greatest golfer who knocked down some serious racial barriers and earned a certain amount of trust never before reached by most if any black athlete and the way the media has persecuted him I just wondered aloud, would it be the exact same results persecution wise if his wife was black as well as his mistress. would the care for Elin Woods be the same for Keisha Woods? would we care what Monique Johnson had to say as much as Rachel Uchitel ? Just an internal thought that I wanted to get opinions on.
Finally Mr. Wordsmith OJ was a case as black people saw it ,that involved a black man utilizing what most blacks can’t ( money and power ) to get acquitted for what everyone knew he did just like a lot of whites who have wronged blacks have been able to do. Black people saw a system that they have always felt was tilted against them for one super huge case turn the other way. So it’s safe to say that it was far from being about OJ. and once again Mr. Wordsmith I ask Would the outrage be as loud and vociferous if Nicole Brown Simpson was Nakia Brown Simpson?
Mr John Galt
While what you say is true, what you neglect to mention is the fact that republicans have been steadily losing the support of Blacks in America since the Teddy Roosevelt era. And for some reason never really made an attempt to get it back. if a candidate does not campaign to you why would you believe they are for you? That is the question posed to most blacks when they go to the polls. So while their was a time when the Right championed the cause of blacks in America and the left did not, as time progressed it was the Democratic party who realized The Black vote is something worth fighting for and the Republicans garnered an image to Blacks as if they could care less up until the 2008 election, Never saw Palin stumping for any Black votes if it was not about race why concede the black vote for so many years? Will you be addressing issues that effect blacks or not? Blacks are under the impression that the right is out of touch with Black Americans and see no signs of them trying to mend those fences. Do you Mr. JohnGalt or do you only see what the Republican party did Many,Many years ago?
It didn’t help, Dwight, that many Blacks in the South were lynched by Democratic groups such as the KKK or the Democrats themselves along with those Whites who fought for their liberties as people. Do understand the true history first and foremost before labeling Republicans as the enslavers or race haters, Republicans were killed in the South up till the late 90′s for their political followings and the Neo-Nazi and KKK groups were the hitmen. A lot of good friends of mine are in graves from Alanta and New Orleans and myself was a victim of constant abuse as a kid by the ilks of supporters of Democrats even being stabbed a few times by a Bill Clinton rabid fan claiming I was a neo-nazi. Do you think it is right to attack an 11 year old child whose only care is to play video games, read his books, do his class work and play with friends is right because this kid have a conservative slant to life? My best friends in High School or Middle School was never whites because I grew up in a very white liberal suburb (it did not help that I had moved into this neighborhood in Middle School) and this suburb didn’t get its first black student till 1998 and they violently atacked this student and trashed her car because she didn’t submit to their “policies” of social structure. I spent my afternoons helping repair her car out of sorrow for what these monsters did to her. As “payment” my locker was pryed open, spraypainted with racial slurs and had knives jammed into a yearbook photo of me in the back of my Locker. The police never found who “did it” but then again, it didn’t help that one knife had the name of the owner’s last name scribed on it and it was a son of a local Officer.
And you gravely mistake the Whig Party’s more “progressive” platforms with the Republican’s. Ignorance is pure bliss, it seems, when being a puppet.
Thanks for sharing Mr Irons, I have seen bigotry; but nothing compared to the incidents you have seen. It is tragic that the same people who committed those crimes are now pimps for the Black Vote. Perhaps the Black is being manipulated more now, than he has been in recent history
Johngalt wrote –
“I will repeat: The left has been given a pass on racism in america. Why, you ask? Because for years the one political party that most opposed integration, and civil rights, including voting, for blacks and other minorities was the democrat party.”
Neat slight of hand, john. You start out talking about “the left” getting a pass on “racism,” then start talking about the “democrat party.” First off, it is called the “Democratic Party” and its members are “Democrats”; it is not called the “Democrat Party.” Second, you conflate “the left” with “the Democratic Party.” In reality, the left of the Dems, the left of the GOP, and the moderates in both parties were all for the civil rights acts.
It was the Got damned conservatives of the Dem Party and the GOP who chose to throw their lot in with the Klan and Bull Connor. The liberals “get a pass” on racism because . . . they opposed the racists . . . .
http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.1543/article_detail.asp
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/12/civil-rights-act-was-opposed-by-conservatives.php
Here . . . read this piece of nonsense from the conservative house organ, the National Review:
http://econ161.berkeley.edu/movable_type/2005-3_archives/001467.html
“The central question that emerges–and it is not a parliamentary question or a question that is answered by merely consulting a catalog of the rights of American citizens, born Equal–is whether the White community in the South is entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not predominate numerically? The sobering answer is Yes–the White community is so entitled because, for the time being, it is the advanced race. It is not easy, and it is unpleasant, to adduce statistics evidencing the median cultural superiority of White over Negro: but it is fact that obtrudes, one that cannot be hidden by ever-so-busy egalitarians and anthropologists. . . National Review believes that the South’s premises are correct. If the majority wills what is socially atavistic, then to thwart the majority may be, though undemocratic, enlightened. It is more important for any community, anywhere in the world, to affirm and live by civilized standards, than to bow to the demands of the numerical majority. Sometimes it becomes impossible to assert the will of a minority, in which case it must give way, and the society will regress; sometimes the numberical minority cannot prevail except by violence: then it must determine whether the prevalence of its will is worth the terrible price of violence.”
Want to know why minorities run like hell from the GOP? Reread this editorial from time to time and you will know why.
It is not because the liberals are so great to them; it is because the conservatives chose to be complicit in their violent subjugation. And the conservatives who used to be in the Dem party are all now in the GOP. This point cannot be argued, because the paper trail still exists, even 50 years after the fact. Which is why, 50 years after the fact, the GOP national convention looks not unlike a Klan meeting.
Oh yes… mention the word “race”, and @billy bob shows up, front and center with some 1950′s blip of history as indicative of this nation’s racial mood in 2010. billy bob, I might point out, was barely a glint in his parents’ eyes at that point… if even a glint.
But if you want to regurgitate history as your quintessential proof that today’s conservatives are “racists”, billy bob, you might want to also recognize that it was Dem Senators that organized the filibuster to the 1964 Civil Rights Act of 1964…. led by Robert Byrd of KKK fame. Right along with Al Gore’s pappy. Any post era criticism of them? Or only of generic conservative op-eds?
Then, of course, ignore the convenient facts that Sen. JFK also voted against the 1957 civil rights act, opposed the ’63 March on Washington by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., organized by a black Republican – A. Phillip Randolph.
I suppose that the origination of Jim Crow laws happened to be by the southern Dems also escapes billy bob’s partisan racial rhetoric.
But probably, billy bob, that which always remains your most offensive and predictable characteristic, is that you always mix past era racism with today’s times…. leaving it to the reader’s imagination that it remains the status quo. That you choose to ignore your own party’s contribution to the past is also indefensible.
This perhaps makes you the most dangerous mix to the black community…. a partisan, revisionist history racist who is bent on perpetuating hatred between races merely to advance a progressive social agenda that continues to enslave not only minorities, but seeks to “equalize” that enslavement to all races to a political ruling class.
Very few can defend the negative and despicable actions of both Dems and Conservatives in those days in our current era perspectives, billy bob. That you attempt to keep it alive today puts you, personally, in the same low class of race baiters and racists of that era. And based on your history here, that comes as no surprise.
Whack!! You go MataH!!! I love reading your rebuttals to these libtards!!
@Dwight:
Dwight, I strongly suggest you read my debate with Gaffa, which if I remember, touched upon our Founding Fathers and the perils of judging the past without having lived through the constraints and prism of understanding, of the times. Concepts of freedom and liberty and equality were not the norm of the day. America was a work in progress, and it’s America and Britain who led the way as prime movers in “abolishing” the institution of slavery and ending the slave trade at the expense of blood and treasure. Nowhere else on earth except in the west was the first anti-slavery movement started.
MLK and Jackie Robinson were great Americans who weren’t alone in challenging the “racist system” in America. Thomas Jefferson himself included a condemnation of slavery in the first draft of the Declaration of Independence. Yes, slavery itself was antithetical to the “belief that all men are created equal” and from the very beginning of our nation’s founding, the incompatibility of the two tormented our forefathers, and they, in various manner and in various states were rejecting slavery before the nation ever split into a war between the states.
Rev. Perryman points out that blacks, every step of the way, were helped by whites who defied racism and slavery. Why are they not credited with helping to define who and what America is? Why is it that the racists and believers in slavery are the ones who get to define who we are/were as a nation?
Dwight, we’ve already admitted it. Over and over and over again. Frankly, we’re obsessed by it to the point of “white guilt” bludgeoning us over the head with it, beating the pride out of us. A number of my fellow citizens only believe the very worst about our nation. That is what I have a problem with. This is lopsided history. The Howard Zinns and Ward Churchills of academia are not the keepers of the flame when it comes to perspective and balance. I don’t know any American who isn’t aware of the horrible way in which blacks and American Indians have been treated in the formation of these United States.
Today is not the 60′s. It is not the 1800′s. It is 2010 where a man of color holds the highest office in the land. Where for decades now, minorities of all stripes and colors have held positions of power, wealth, and prestige in government and in the private sector. Who is holding them down? What holds “the black man down”? I believe it is mostly the clinging to the belief of institutionalized racism that does more than the actual existence of institutionalized racism that “holds the black man down”. That makes him hostile to embracing mainstream American society, only seeing things in terms of “black culture” (to be embraced) and white culture (to be rejected).
The “shame of our country” wasn’t exclusive to our country (where we received only 4 to 6% of the African slaves shipped across the Atlantic). But the beginnings of a worldwide awakening to the evils of slavery began, in part, with us. Again, it was a process; not an instant belief amongst the masses. To change an institution that’s been around for 2000 years in all corners of the globe and shift people’s mindsets doesn’t just happen overnight. I reject the hypocrisy charge.
These men exist because they feed off of fanning the flames of racial hatred and strife, for the most part. Somehow, Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson (who wrote the book “Scam”) and Reverend Wayne Perryman are spouting nonsense to you, while Reverend Jackson and Sharpton “exist because they are deemed necessary by someone who felt the same way they do”? Why doesn’t Peterson and Perryman’s perspective, as black Americans, deserve serious deliberation and attention? Why do the Sharptons get to speak on behalf of the black American experience?
Men like Farrakhan and Wright are part of the racial problem. Not the solution.
Thanks for the link. I read it with interest. The anti-slavery movement was not a “worldwide movement” until spearheaded by Britain and the U.S. The Declaration of Independence, itself, was an inspirational document to the growing movement to end slavery. Before Wilberforce, there were already anti-slavery sentiments afoot in America. As early as 1646 Puritan founders of New England expressed their revulsion of slavery. The General Court of Massachusetts condemned citizens who had brought over two natives they seized in an African village and the magistrates ordered the two blacks returned to their native land. 2 yrs later, Rhode Island passed legislation denouncing the practice of enslaving blacks for life. This before the Declaration of Independence. And American history is filled with those Americans who stood against slavery and turned the tide of a worldwide practice that had been around for generations upon generations. And slavery was legislated against in some parts of the United States, prior to the War between the States. It was thanks to white Americans and white Europeans; not some rebellion and uprising of black slaves.
From your link:
Again, there was no “worldwide movement” or “world” opinion on slavery that did not begin in the West, spearheaded by Christian evangelicals in Britain and in America. From them, spread the growth of the movement.
Mine was a response to yours, where you posed a question regarding President Obama. Perhaps I misread what seemed between the lines- the suggestion that our opposition to Obama’s agenda has to do with racist attitudes toward him. I mean, why the hell are you bringing healthcare into this, when the topic isn’t about healthcare but on “racism”?
Jesus Christ, man….get off the racial obsession! Quit looking at him through the lens of “race”. Quit seeing him as “a black man” married to a “white woman”. Tiger Woods is simply a HUGE sports celebrity known for great charity work and an inspiration to millions. A big part of his fall is due to the fact that so many believed he had his head screwed on straight as a devoted family man. It is big news because he is a big celebrity. Period. It has nothing to do with the color of his skin! Make it an issue, and that’s how racism stays alive and well and MAKES America a racist nation.
Well, ya got mine!
Maybe not.
Well done Wordsmith, I made the mistake of reading it off my blackberry, that was a chore; I enjoyed it none the less.
Mata –
Once again, you are trying to rewrite history. You try to conflate party label with political ideology. But you, again, fail because I will not let you get away with it.
I say it again, and there is simply no actual factual or historic dispute: liberals and moderates of the Democratic Party and Republican Party were the ones responsible for the passage of the civil rights legislation.
You cons sided with Bull Connor. This is a historical fact that, while embarrassing to your side, cannot be swept under the rug. Everytime you bring up “the Dems filibustered”, YOU are the one making this a partisan issue, as opposed to the ideological issue that it is.
I pointed out the National Review article (and there are many others like it, including the infamous Robert Bork article) to show that opposition to the civil rights act was a CONSERVATIVE THING. You can try all you want to, but you can’t get away from that fact: you guys were on the wrong side of history. And as those conservatives all gravitated to the GOP (and away from the Dem Party), Americans minorities went the exact opposite direction.
Remember: up until the 1960s, the Black vote was pretty split . . . not evenly split, but the GOP was competitive. But in the 1960s and 70s and 80s, the Southern Strategy meant that the GOP was more willing to go after the George Wallace voters than the now-upwardly mobile minority vote. And after the 1960s changes in immigration laws, you had more minorities immigrating to the US from Africa, Asia, the Carribean, Latin America. You think those new immigrants are going to side with the party of the Southern Strategy, or the party that was still proud of the civil rights statutes?
Yes, it cost the Dems the South and it cost them some elections. But now the children of those immigrants are voting and they are not even willing to consider the conservative GOP as an option. The conservative GOP is looking at a demographically dictated extinction, and the roots of that extinction can be traced back to the 1950s and 60s, when the conservatives decided to side with Bull Connor over Martin Luther King, to listen to Robert Bork and not LBJ, to go after the angry white voters in the South (angry because of integration) and ignore, with supposed “benign neglect” (the Nixon administration term), the newly empowered minority voters.
It could have been a very different world. But it is what it is because the conservatives were philosphically and ideologically opposed to the civil rights acts. In that, the conservatives thought that empowering minorities was a greater threat to America that the often violent racist subjugation of minorities that the National Review was cheerleading in that 1957 editorial.
Lastly, Mata, you wrote:
“. . . that which always remains your most offensive and predictable characteristic, is that you always mix past era racism with today’s times…. leaving it to the reader’s imagination that it remains the status quo.”
I ask the Janet Jackson question: “what have you done for me lately?” It is all well and good to point out that Lincoln was a GOPer and that GOPers supported the civil rights acts. But what has the GOP done for minority voters since 1965? What has the GOP done to attract minority voters to the party? I won’t give MY answer . . . because I want you to ponder it yourself. As for the “status quo”, the Dems just ran a Black man for president and provided the cash, organization and votes for him to WIN it, going away. What has the GOP done in comparison?
See, Mata, you cons STILL refuse to acknowledge why you are in the demographic predicament that you are in. I keep trying to explain it to you, but you would rather listen to other cons pontificate on why your party is not even competitive with minority voters. Until you folks stop listening to each other (the blind leading the blind), you will learn nothing.
On second thought . . . maybe you cons . . . like it the way it is, with one party looking like a rainbow coalition and the other looking like a White Citizens Council meeting. Because the GOP certainly has made no effort to change its ways. G’day!
Dwight –
Wordsmith wrote many sentences and uses lots of words, but never addresses your point, which was “If America had kept to its word from its inception their would not be the significants of MLK, Jackie Robinson and the other great blacks who challenged the racist system in place in America.”
We would not have had slavery, a war, Reconstruction, Jim Crow, and an anti-segregation backlash IF NOT for the forces of racism winning in the 1770s and set us on this course. Cons refuse to acknowledge the obvious mainly because conservatives, by definition, were opposed to the very forces of upheaval that set in force the 190 year correction that culminated with the civil rights acts. So they minimize the devstating impact of slavery and Jim Crow . . . yeah, talking about you Dinesh D’Souza. They pooh pooh the intergenerational wealth transfer impact of restricting minority employment to menial positions, regardless of the native abilities of those minorities. You see them spin as best they can to act as if the Southern Strategy did not exist. They try to rewrite history to act as if their demigod Reagan was NOT race baiting by giving a “states rights” speech practically on the burial site where Goodman, Cheney and Schwerner were martyred. And they like to totally ignore Jesse Helms’ and Strom Thurmond’s respective “contributions” to race relations in America, as if everything would have been OK if not for affirmative action, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton . . . please . . . .
What we are seeing on this board is, in reality, a declaration of defeat. Everytime you see a Youtube post of racist behavior at a teabagger rally going uncontested, the cons know they have sunk a little lower. Everytime you hear some nutbag make a caustic speech comparing illegal immigrants to vermin, the cons know they lose a few million more votes of fair-minded voters, Whites, Latinos, Black and Asians alike. Every time you see the US actually doing BETTER at something under Obama, the cons get more desperate. Because they now know they picked the wrong side on the racial issues facing this country, and the demographic chickens are coming home to roost. You have an entire generation of young White voters who are now voting like minority voters. Why? Because they cannot abide what the GOP stands for today. And as you said, the GOP has done nothing to address this problem.
There is a lot of desperation on the con side. It is why you see so much heat, so little thought, and appeals to violent “resistence” coming from the conservatives. They truly believe this is armageddon! I know this because . . . they have said so! But, to paraphrase REM, it only seems like the end of the world because it is the end of the world as THEY know it. They are still working their way through the Kubler-Ross states of grief: caught up at “anger” and “denial” and not quite yet at “acceptance.”
@ BRob
You completely embarrass yourself every time you get near a keyboard. You sir are the one trying to rewrite history. These are the facts:
Senator Everett Dirksen (R-IL) was the Senate Minority leader and helped write and pass the Civil Rights legistlation. He was a huge conservative. He introduced a constituitional amendment to allow public school administrators to provide organized prayer by students. He’s the man responsible for the phrase, “A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you’re talking about real money.” Don’t believe me though, let the good senator himself tell you the difference between a Republican and a Democrat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm6fnQ5no0o&feature=player_embedded
OMG, did you hear that BRob? He’s a flaming liberal, huh?
The truth is BRob, there were Republicans and Democrats that opposed the legislation and Rebublicans and Democrats that supported it. There were liberals and conservatives that opposed the legislation, (Robert Byrd being one of those libs and Barry Goldwater being one of those conservatives), and conservative and liberals that supported the legislation.
And to further job your memory, Woodrow Wilson, the progressive hero of the left: “His administration imposed full racial segregation in Washington and hounded from office considerable numbers of black federal employees…”
Look it up, you might be surprised. And we can never forget Andrew Jackson, the man responsible for the Jack-ass to become the symbol of the Democrat party. He defied the SCOTUS and force marched the Cherokee Nation from their rightful lands to Oklahoma. He is responsible for the deaths of 1000′s of men, women and children on the Trail of Tears.
Now, go straighten up your Paralegal diploma and get your boss a cup of coffee.
Mata BRob spelled it out perfectly in 40# and 41#.Southern Cons.( some Dems. and Repubs) backed Goldwater64 who voted against Civil Rights Act.Dem. Johnson backed Civil Rights Act. which hurt him in south but helped elect him nationally.Dem Cons.including Dixiecrat and avowed racist Strom Thurmond (D.S.C.) began switching in droves to more conservative Repub.Party.Nixon’s “southern strategy”,bringing more Dem.whites into Repub.fold brought him very close victory in 68 but continued to push southern minorities into Dem. fold.This movement of conservative Southern white Dems into Repub.Party continued in 70′s and early 80′s.The deep south had gone from solid Dem. to solid Repub. in less than 20 years fueled primarily by Civil Right’s Votes.
No question Cons. are desperate as demographically, youth, Latins and other minorities overwhelmingly move to Dems. It truly is “the end of the world as they know it”Fortunately most people think this is a good thing.
BROB it’s weard but the more you say,the more you talk about the democrats,they are the one who project violence and hatred and fear mongering ,,,i go to some others conservatives news facts and i find the sincerety and civilyse way of their news and truth and the comments are very knowledgebale specialy here ,,FA demand proof on every one who bring fact and if there is no proof of what they bring,they are challenge all the time,,there is also humor and the whole spectrum of ideas exchange,,no violence here,no insult here,i say they know what they are talking about,here we have professionals in all spectrum as well as other,,studient very well learned working people of all trades,,AMERICANS,that all would work for AMERICANS,when their time come they will deserve the trust to be elevated in power to serve the people’s demands,,bye
@Aqua #42:
Let us remind BRob and Rich Wheeler the reason why Goldwater did not support the legislation (which was not out of “racism”):
@BRob #40:
Let’s remind BRob that George Wallace was a Democrat, who in ’68 got 13% of the votes as an independent, then went back to the Democrat Party in ’72 when he was shot, and ran against George McGovern and was beating him in the primaries, running on a transparently racist appeal!
@BRob #41:
That’s one explanation…the other is that you are too partisanly mule-headed and comprehension-deficient to wrap your brain around what is presented before you.
bees –
I said NOTHING about Democrats initially. I said CONSERVATIVES opposed the civil rights act . . . and they did. But if you look at the two parties now, and look at them from the 1970s onward, you will see a dramatic difference, demographically, with college educated people and racial minorities and young people flocking to one party.
And you said Dems “they are the one who project violence and hatred and fear mongering”. Please . . . when is the last time a Dem brought a gun to a presidential rally? Or a Dem congressman cheered a domestic terrorist flying a plane into a government building? When is the last time you heard someone from the left sugesting that people throw bricks through GOP congressmen’s office windows? When is the last time you heard a lefty claim that the government was going to confiscate guns, or create concentration camps, or create panels that would decide if people would be euthanised? That was your side who did those things, and more, in the last fourteen months. Why? Desperation. You people have nothing left but dire predictions and fear and conspiracy theories because you have no rational arguments to add to the discussion.
Wordsmith — I am hoping you are NOT denying the Southern Strategy . . . which was to make GOPers out of the Southern White Wallace voters, the ones who were angry at the Dems after the anti-segregation efforts succeeded. And the Southern Strategy worked, culminating in the gubenatorial run of David Duke (as a Republican, of course). Indeed, the Southern Strategy and Reagan’s disgraceful speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi are simply matters of historic fact that you cons keep trying to alternatively spin and ignore. But it is there, buddy boy, like a big infected dime sized pimple in the middle of your forehead . . . you can look away, but you can’t really avoid it.
And you can spin Goldwater’s opposition to the civil rights act and say it was not about racism. But reread the National Review editorial and tell me that that is not inherently racist, i.e., championing the idea that Whites can and should use force, if necessary, to maintain dominion over the descendents of slaves in the South. What is that EXCEPT racism?
You also skirt right by the fact that Goldwater’s position gave aid and comfort the the domestic terrorists that were marauding throughout the South. The Birchers, the White Citizens Councils, the Mississippi Sovereignty Commission, the Klan . . . all alligned with the GOP. Why? Because the cons threw their hats in with Lester Maddox and against Martin Luther King, with the crooked Southern sheriffs and against Viola Liuzzo. If you cons had had your way, Black people STILL would not be permitted to vote, or travel across state lines freely, or eat lunch at a crappy lunch counter. And that, sonny boy, is why the GOP is dying today: the putrid roots of the party are rotting. It is becoming a old, all White regional party, with the only members left being the same angry people you attracted in the 70s and 80s. Take a look that the angry nuttiness of the teabagger rallies . . . that is the face the GOP is showing America.
Aqua –
From wikipedia — “After losing in the 1930 Republican primary, Dirksen won the nomination and the congressional seat in 1932, and was re-elected seven times. His support for many New Deal programs marked him as a moderate, pragmatic Republican.”
So much for him being a conservative! LOL!
I notice you did not even bother to address professional bigot Jesse Helms and child rapist Strom Thurmond. They were much more important to the GOP than Dirksen, especially seeing as they both were the same kind of racist former Dems who flocked to the GOP in the 1960s and 70s and 80s. Indeed, both of them were much more recent leaders of the GOP, seeing as Dirksen died in 1969 and Thurmond and Helms were around 30 plus years. But that’s OK . . . I know installing a child rapist as head of the Senate Judiciary Committee is an achievement that no one would want to acknowledge now. But, as I said, it is what it is!
Wordsmith In 64 Wallace opposed to the Civil Rights Act ran in 3 Dem primaries and got about 1/3rd of the vote against LBJ. In 68 he broke from Dems and ran 3rd party Pres campaign with American Independant Party, anti Civil Rights,pro States rights.Famed statement “segregation now,segregation forever”. In 7O as Dem. re-elected as Gov.of Ala. in a run-off and in 72 while running as Dem in Pres. primaries was shot and seriously wounded.He was doing OK against McGovern in South but probably had little chance nationally.Meanwhile southern white Dems continued movement into Repub.Party and growth of Conserv. evangelicals added to Republican base.Note I certainly don’t believe Goldwater was a racist but believe he was on wrong side of 64 Civil Rights Act
Aqua Large majority of Repub support of Civil Rights Act came from moderate northern and western Repubs.Dirkson today would most likely be a RINO in conservative’s eyes. Byrd certainly no liberal but like Jim Webb(D.Va.) a bluedog.
This all said in 2010 we want to believe our society is post racial and the election of BHO with 9.5 million vote plurality should make this case.I’d like to think one thing most can agree on is term limits for all.Politics should not be a career but an incredible opportunity for the best among us to SERVE the people and get back to a civilian career.
Happy Easter to all
@ rich wheeler
Did you click on the youtube video with Dirksen explaining the difference between a republican and democrat? He didn’t sound like a RINO to me.
Agreed 100%
Madalyn, I would love to hear you elaborate on how, aside from the History Channel commercial, you’ve come to the rather frightening determination that Democrats are acting like Nazis. This seems to be a somewhat common fear among many conservatives, one that I frankly don’t see, but that I’m very interested in understanding. It seems you’re not alone in this fear. I’m sure you’re well aware of the history of the rise of Nazism in Germany. When they assumed power, they further galvanized their followers by preaching blood purity and a return to traditional family values, while demonizing what they considered to be the morally corrupting influences of communists, homosexuals and Jews. There’s certainly a nasty corner of the American political universe where those ideas might feel right at home, but I wouldn’t necessarily locate that corner within the mainstream Democratic Party. And this isn’t coming from a “Democrat” so to speak (although I’m clearly more liberal than the average poster on this site) but a person who is still, quite unsuccessfully, trying to locate that smoking gun responsible for all this dramatic teeth gnashing.
BROB you said[i did not talk about democrat] that is why you are trying to say, there is no bad apples in the dems? ..we.in a party of so many people like the conservative party ,i could say,,,you pick that there is no bad apples either,of course if you go back hundreds of years in a society,you will have an easyer chance to pick the bad apple on the democrats even more than the conservatives,because the conservatives have stayed in their beleifs on the right of the AMERICANS FREEDOM written in the law of the land that is the CONSTITUTION you pick on a few in a multitude of AMERICANS that peacefully show their disapproval ,they are expressing their foundamental RIGHTS ,,,you said one throw a rock? showing a window on 3rd floor? you said one had a gun? did he used it?no ,,,yes your playing a game, you would be more serious to use the right name when you address the CONSERVATIVE party bye
TOM, do you read the news? MADALYN is very well informed and i would beleive her words more than yours with the intent you are hiding under your attacking her,,she mention ;;physicly attack,,vicious emails intimidations voices messages that is enough to fear the government who allowe it to be done,
I do read the news, but I haven’t seen any articles about physical attacks on conservatives perpetrated by Democrats. Can you provide links to the stories you’re referring to, please?
@ Tom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXBOgPCh9w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fHSW4Txxz8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t7IHaHJamE&feature=player_embedded#
Thanks, Aqua. I still don’t see that these instances are commensurate with the rhetoric I’m reading from people like Madalyn and then repeated as Gospel by others. And as long as Republican Congressmen are egging on protesters carrying signs of Obama with a Hitler mustache, or leadership figures like Sarah Palin are preaching about a separate ‘real America’, I’m going to have a hard time mustering up much sympathy for Conservatives who feel under siege. There seems to be enough substantial philosophical and policy differences to debate without these cynical and simple-minded scare tactics. At the end of the day, anyone who thinks that the Democratic party can take this country into a looney-tunes Liberal Banana Republic is ignoring this simple truth behind our electoral politics: you can only push so far beyond the aggregate will of the American people. If ‘Obamacare’ went too far, the Democrats will pay for it in the next election and the balance will be restored. Clearly, in addition to his considerable merits, Obama was elected in the first place in large part because of what the Center considered to be the excesses and failures of the previous administration. Let’s not forget that 40% of this country is always going to vote Conservative/Republican and 40% Liberal/Democrat, so it’s really that middle 20% that counts. Obama can walk out of Pakistan’s tribal belt tomorrow with the severed head of Osama Bin Ladin in hand, and it wouldn’t garner him one more vote from this board. But he doesn’t need your votes. The votes he needs are the ones in Virginia or Ohio, the swing voters who voted for him last time around. Anything he does so extreme as to lose their vote is political suicide.
@BRob:
And it is YOUR party which you are in which supported slavery, secession, segregation and now socialism. Name the prominent CONSERVATIVES you rail on about as having migrated into the Republican Party who supports any of those positions.
There are reasons why YOUR Democrat Party has alienated and driven out many from the Party over the decades; and it’s not because they were racists looking for a new home.
Meanwhile, you retain Senator Robert Byrd, a former “Keagle” in the Ku Klux Klan, who in that era of supposed conservative (racist) migration into the Republican tent was a fierce opponent of desegregating the military. He wrote in one letter: “I would rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the wilds.”
And your beloved, precious Democrat Party honored him as “the conscience of the Senate”. Lol.
@rich wheeler #49:
A lot of people might be regarded as “RINO” in the eyes of a number of conservatives; but it wouldn’t be over disagreement on “race”. And it’s spinful of BRob to talk of conservatives flocking to the Republican Party over the issue on race, when it was majority Republicans in both House and Senate who voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Until the current administration, the former one had the most diverse presidential cabinet in history, including the first black Secretary of State and first black female National Security Advisor. When Bush nominated her to become our 2nd black Secretary of State, Robert Byrd and Senate Democrats stalled Rice’s confirmation for a week. While she had unanimous GOP support, 12 Democrats and Vermont Independent James Jeffords opposed Rice — the most “No” votes for a State designee since 1825, when 14 senators rejected Henry Clay. And it was majority Republicans in 2000 and 2004 who elected and re-elected President Bush. Was all this done because of GOP racists and racist Democrats? No. Yet you want to do what Dems do best, which is play the race card and paint the GOP as racist today, and racist of yesteryear; then try and move goal posts by claiming “well, I never said Democrats weren’t racists, but conservatives were.”
Gerard Alexander of the University of Virginia in writes:
The dirty little secret of all this is that @BRob:
has nothing to do with GOP racists and everything to do with Democrats and liberals reworking history in Academia and in political theater, through race-baiting and fear-mongering. They bear the burden of guilt for promoting the idea that little has changed in the way of progress in civil rights; and that whites still deserve guilt and blame for “holding the black man down”. They have propagated the myth in order to keep black voters on the Democratic Party’s plantation.
“It is a plain fact of American political life today that Democrats are completely dependent on black votes. The day African Americans stop casting 80 to 95 percent of their votes for Democrats is the day Democrats stop winning elections.” -Mona Charen
This is why your precious Democrat Party- with footsoldiers like you enthusiastically embracing the marching orders- feel the need to perpetuate the false perception of a GOP racist history into a GOP racist present day.
Wordsmith –
If the Dem Party has “driven out” so many people, then why is it the majority party in the United States? Have you ever wondered why the GOP never has been the majority party and, at this point, looks like it never will be? Here’s a hint — it ain’t because your ideas are better and just haven’t caught on, after close to 180 years in existence.
And I did not pick out a couple “obscure” random conservatives to prove my point. I mentioned Ronald Reagan, Bill Buckley’s National Review, Richard Nixon’s Southern Strategy and his “benign neglect” approach to Black voters, Jesse Helms and child rapist Strom Thurmond. These are not obscure figures; they are the very pillars of the American conservative movement from the 1950s through the 1990s. I mentioned Reagan’s Philadelphia, Mississippi speech, but I did not even mention Reagan’s cowtowing to racist Bob Jones University (an issue mentioned in Clarence Thomas’ autobiography). Thomas talks about the negative impact of Reagan’s Civil Rights chief carrying water for a university that actively and aggressively discriminated on the basis of race. This is part of the racial history that the GOP has to live down, a much more recent history than what Abe Lincoln did back in the 1860s. And that history has nothing to do with, as you put it, anyone “rewriting” history.
There is a reason that the first Black American president is a Dem and not a GOPer; and that outcome was pretty much pre-ordained when the cons opposed the civil rights acts, then welcomed the Bull Connors of the world with open arms. Now which party do you think a young Asian or Hispanic might think would give him the best opportunity to achieve?
You also posted:
“It is a plain fact of American political life today that Democrats are completely dependent on black votes. The day African Americans stop casting 80 to 95 percent of their votes for Democrats is the day Democrats stop winning elections.” -Mona Charen
Then you said: “This is why your precious Democrat Party- with footsoldiers like you enthusiastically embracing the marching orders- feel the need to perpetuate the false perception of a GOP racist history into a GOP racist present day.”
These are two opinions by conservatives; they are not facts. I already pointed out the genesis of the GOPs race problems; you just refuse to accept reality. But the bigger problem is that the GOP has not a problem with Blacks, only, but with all racial minorities and younger White people, too. It is not a Black problem; it is a much broader demographic problem. The GOP is becoming an old, White regional party . . . and with Obama taking Virginia, North Carolina and Florida, that region is shrinking, to boot.
Mona’s opinion is also interesting in another way. You would think that if she was right, then the GOP would try harder to peel away Black votes. But the GOP does the exact opposite, culminating in such an obvious show of racist nuttiness at the Palin rallies that lifelong Republican Colin Powell endorsed Obama.
This is the problem you have to address. And remember, when you cons trash the predominately Hispanic illegals, you not only turn off the Hispanics, but the Asians and the Blacks wonder “Gee, what would they say about me?” Don’t believe me? Ask around, then. And how do you think that the young Whites feel . . . people like my former secretary who, at age 20, had more friends who were minorities than not? You think she is attracted to the GOP’s antics? Hardly. You think her husband (also White with an equally diverse set of friends) would pull the lever for a party that refers to gays or Arabs or Hispanics like they are a Mongol hoard set to destroy America? Nope . . . he, too, will take a pass.
Actually, forget what I said. I am wrong and you are right. Keep trashing illegals. E,mbrace the teabaggers! Young people and minorities love that stuff! Your plan is working out so well so far, why accept any advice from me? Carry on, oh party of Palin and Tancredo . . . carry on!
WORDSMITH i read that BROB is desperate, he is going to write any thing to persuade people that the conservatives have no chance to win,he is lucky to even have the space to say it,,that alone tell me how moderates the conservatives are what a diffrence between the two partys it bring to mind which party would be more bypartisan on AMERICANS demands of freedom,,bye
AQUA i appreciate giving the proof on what TOM was demanding ,and as he had thoses facts, it seems like he was even not satisfied so he went into a frenzie of a long comment to explain that the truth must have been fabricated ,,bye
This is why I think your ideological fixation makes you reading comprehension deficient. Here is what I wrote:
Yet you filter it through your worldview prism and churn out an interpretation of what I said ’cause to actually read what I had written would require you to have some honesty here.
Try again.
Are you calling Reagan a racist? Reagan who helped get Thomas onto the path to the Supreme Court by naming him chairman of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission?
When a Democrat like Kuccinich was opposed to passage of Obamacare, if he voted with the opposition, would he have done so for the same reasons as the GOP? On paper, it apparently doesn’t matter; but in reality, the reason behind the decisions for votes in favor for and opposition against matter. In hindsight, one could argue that opposition to the 1964 Civil Rights Act was a bad decision; but if you’re accusing a Goldwater or a Reagan of doing so out of racist motives, it is you who are the spin doctor, doing what Dems do best: Pull out the race card for political points and to keep black voters on the Democratic Party plantation.
What is it about the Philadelphia speech you take issue with? The substance? Insensitivity to locale and choice of words? What? Be intellectually honest here, in regards to what Reagan meant about “state’s rights”. Was it economic policy he referred to or some diabolical code-word for Robert Byrd’s brothers in hood?
You know, the day after his Philadelphia speech, he flew out to Manhattan to deliver an address to the National Urban League and said, “I am committed to the protection and enforcement of the civil rights of black Americans. This commitment is interwoven into every phase of the programs I will propose,”
So now is he merely pandering to black voters? Gee…does that sit well with the Ku Klux Klanners back in Mississippi?
Reagan wasn’t a racist. Yet that’s exactly what you are saying or implying.
He grew up with playmates who were black; racial slurs were not allowed in his household; in college, when two black teammates of his were refused lodging at a hotel, he invited them to stay at his family’s home. One of them became a lifelong best friend of his. What a racist!
But keep pulling the race card because that’s what dishonest Democrats like you do best. You perpetuate racism and fabricate it when none exists. You see only what you want to see and keep constituents in the dark.
There are a number of reasons why your messiah won in ’08 and why Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton were failed candidates.
When conservatives complain about Michael Steele, is it because he is black? Or is it criticism that looks at something about him beyond skin color?
Dems are fixated on race. Which, in my book, makes them racists (i.e., race obsessed). It is Republicans who have moved beyond race. Your side needs to keep minority constituents locked into the frame of mind of identifying themselves by skin hue. Who are the real racists?
Bull Connors, the Democrat? Um…yeah…ok.
Republican Party, hands down!
And what the frak are you? The fact fairy? Give me a break!
What is nutty is the kinds of conclusions you draw from such screwed up premises.
@ BRob
Did you just read the first paragraph?
From the same page:
As for Thurmond and Helms, never been a fan, never voted for them, they aren’t from my state. I found them to be an embarrassment to the US Senate, much the way Robert Byrd is.
Winning a debate against you is like slapping a kitten. It’s easy to do, but I feel bad for picking on the helpless.
Wordsmith –
About Ronald Reagan and Philadelphia, Mississippi. RR was a smart man. He understood history. He sure well knew what the phrase “state’s rights” meant when he was giving his speech a little more than a decade later. He chose, for whatever reason, to go to the town that was then known for only one thing, the wilfull terroristic torture and murder of three law abiding young men. And he chose to give a speech about “state’s rights” , the code phrase for maintaining White hegemony, at the end of a noose or the barrel of a gun, if necessary. I am saying giving that speech at that place shows he was either racist, had a epicos of incredible stupidity, or he was just insensitive. You can chose which it was. But we know that it was not a SMART thing to do, vis a vis the GOPs odds of ever making inroads with Black voters. And that is why you now see Reaganites try to explain what he was “trying” to say. They know it looks bad, so they try to obfuscate it. Just like you never bothering to address the National Review editorial.
“When conservatives complain about Michael Steele, is it because he is black?”
According to Steele? Yes it is!
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/04/steeles_problems_about_race.php?ref=fpblg
On George W. Bush: I have said all along, if not for Bush (both his willingness to have high profile Black appointees AND his shear incompetence at managing government), Obama would not have won. I give credit where due.
As for Asians and Hispanics thinking that the GOP gives them a better opportunity to achieve: all the voting patterns say otherwise. Y’all have lost them just as you have lost the young Whites and college educated voters of all stripes.
Gotta go . . . GO BUTLER!
Well, BRob,
Michelle Obama’s also a smart woman; so why the slip ups regarding Kenya as her husband’s “home country”? When Obama refers to “my Muslim faith”? He’s a smart guy. The fact of the matter is, even smart people make gaffes; make verbal blunders. Just look at Bush; look at Biden.
If you honestly look at the context of the phrase, “state’s rights”, there’s no question what Reagan was referring to. Yet Carter played the race card, and fellow Democrats like yourself continue playing it, because fabricating racial animosity and fear-mongering is what you do best.
When Al Gore claimed his father championed Civil Rights, did you catch him in the lie?
When Harry Reid made a racist remark, do you hold the Democrat Party accountable?
When Joe Biden makes insensitve racial gaffes, do you hold the Democrat Party accountable?
When Hilary Clinton speaks in her Plantation drawl, did you and your Democrat Party give her a pass?
These are all current leaders of your party. Yet supposedly it’s the Republican Party that’s the party of racists. Meanwhile, you have the likes of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Maxine Waters who are racists.
BRob,
I didn’t realize it was my job to counter and address every item you choose to bring to the table. Time is short and I have other priorities I like to get to first. I hadn’t looked at it, but since you badger on about it, like some Holy Grail find, I’ll take a look at it just to indulge you.
BRob comment #35:
Um…1957? And where in the last several decades did this become a major platform talking plank in the Republican Party? Sure, it can come across as offensive; especially to our multicultural-loving “all cultures are created equal” sensitivities. Just as the notion of American exceptionalism. But how is that one paragraph being embraced by today’s GOP? How is that attitude being reflected? One writer…and you expect him to define the conservative movement? Meanwhile, also in ’57, you had Eisenhower signing the Republican Party’s Civil Rights Act; and Kennedy and Johnson criticizing him for sending the 82nd Airborne Division to Little Rock, AR to force Democrat Governor Orval Faubus to integrate public schools.
And no, I don’t share the article’s viewpoint.
Yet go ahead and keep dealing out the race card. Keep being the problem and not the solution to ending racist attitudes. Keep being dishonest.
When Obama cut funding to historically black colleges and universities, was that out of racism? Or does he get a pass for being black? For being a Democrat? Just think of the uproar you’d be making had Obama been a white president doing this. Is everything that happens based on race, to you?
Wordsmith Is there any question Steele is now playing “the race card” after condeming it? Should he stay or should he go? Thanks to “The Clash”.
Look, we all know that the “race card” is used. In our history we have had Afro-Americans, blacks or whatever the politically correct term is that have tried to get something for nothing. We have just as many whites, hispanics, latinos or whatever. I was told by union officials in my last job that they had gone to administration and told them that they needed to hire an Afro-American supervisor, but they hired me, a caucasian. They told me that “with word of mouth, we are going to make it very hard for you to do your job”, you are going to have a hard row-to-hoe and you will have it hard here because we are a small hospital and a family”. I lost my job 3 months later. Racism is out there. People use it as a method and a tool to get what they want. There is NOTHING we can do about it. As long as our leaders let anyone abuse our past, take GOD out of our lives, let outsiders try to make their language and their heritage more improtant than ours, our country is screwed!! If you come to America, learn our language, accept our heritage and our laws. We do not care that you practice your beliefs, but if you want the freedoms that America provides, BE AN AMERICAN—Just an AMERICAN!!
Been laboring under the “make a living bit” of late, but I see everyone’s still playing with our resident racist, billy bob. Most if it is the usual yada yada yada crap he blows out his rear end via a keyboard, but let me point out something quite important here…
Interesting, billy bob. It always comes down to social justice welfare programs for you, doesn’t it? Let’s point a out a few realities for you, shall we?
Who had the black Secretary of State? Nope… let’s make that TWO Secretary’s of State that were black? And prior to Condi’s SOS gig, she was Nat’l Security Advisor. And while we can all tell that you don’t care about any other minority other than black, and we can only wonder about your gender perspectives, but Bush 43 not only had a diverse cabinet in ethnics – appointing Hispanics and Asians – but in gender.
Seems your prior Dem POTUS only had females fill positions on their knees in the oval office… (unless you want to count Reno and Not-So-Bright, both questionable “females” at best…)
When LBJ appointed Thurgood Marshall, the first black SCOTUS member, what was the vote, bubba? Do you remember that only one Republican opposed while TEN… yes, TEN… southern dems opposed? Twenty Senators took the “Obama” way out by refusing to vote and take a stand. Considering that the Dems held the Senate, 68 to 32, all 20 not voting were Dems. Quite the pro-black history you tout, guy.
It was a Republican who nominated Clarence Thomas in 1991 (shall I repeat that? 1991!), and the NAACP who opposed him. Only 11 Dems voted for his comfirmation, and 46 Dems voted against his nomination. uh… did I mention just 19 years ago? Facts that slip your memory so you can promote your 2010 racist revisionist history to perpetuate hatred.
These are only a few answers to your question, “what have you done for me lately?” But let’s go to a basic platform value… Conservatives don’t promise to re/create a form of slavery by making black Americans social welfare dependents of the state. With every handout comes the payment of control over your life, your family, and the sacrifice of a future to be all that you can be. But as I said earlier, at least you progs are equal opportunity social welfare slaves. You want to “equalize” everyone into mediocrity and government dependence.
In short, billy bob, you and your buds are stuck in the time warp of racial hatred. You are the black community’s worst enemy, and you sure aren’t much of a poster child for simple social skills. Whether this is schooling at the hands of your parents, or your school curriculum, you are one sorry SOB.
MATA that’s what i call highclass rethoric no one get closse to that ,thank you ,
@rich wheeler, I thought you blew out of here in a huff… guess not, eh?
As for Steele, he stays, in my opinion. And didn’t you hear? The only ones that are permitted to play “the race card”, are those that are black. Sharpton, Jackson, Obama, etal. Just like the only ones allowed to use the “n” word, as all the PC correct like to do in order to avoid language, are those who are black. THerefore Steele has broken no rules….
…. save the racist Dems have different rules for blacks who are not of the progressive stripe variety.
M.H. Interesting take. I say Conservatives who didn’t want him now force him out.The big battle over the next few months is between Conservatives and Rino’s. Real sport.
‘
But of course you, a confirmed liberal, would say “I say conservatives who didn’t want him, now force him out”. That way you and your bud, billy bob, could find another way to accuse the GOP of being racists in 2010. Because I assure you, you and yours *would* spin it as a racist decision… based on performance or not.
Revelation for you, rich. You’re not a conservative. This is not your movement. Few of us give a flying fart about your suggestions for the RNC chair. And even less of us would trust your motives for your “friendly” advice.
And hear hear for the “rinos v conservatives”. At least we’re not all prozac clones.
m.h. I’d say he Got the job because he was Black but he’s losing it because he did a lousy job. i have no suggestions for the RNC chair and I’m drug free thank you.
But of course you would say that. Because you, like billy bob, love to perpetuate the racist screed. But you see, your credentials in the conservative world, and certainly here, are shot all to hell. We already know your left slant, rich.
And how would you know if you’re drug free? Checked your drinking water lately?
Wheeler are you talking about Steele or Obama?
MH You think They poisoned it?
Skookum Without Obama there is no Steele.2012 is a long way off. Steele gone within a week.
Mata –
You think some of the opposition to Clarence Thomas might have had to do with the fact that . . . oh, a former employee accused him of sexually harassing her? And not his race? Think that MIGHT have played into the vote a bit? Er, yeah! And its interesting: you reject outright the idea that some of Obama’s opposition MIGHT stem from the fact that he is Black; but you then turn around and claim that whiney mantle for yourselves where Thomas is concerned. So which is it? Are some Whites secretly hostile to accomplished Black people (like Obama and Thomas) or are they not? Having just finished the Merida/Fletcher biography of Thomas, which notes the criticism of Thomas as “not smart” mirroring that thrown at Thurgood Marshall (hardly a conservative), you have my answer.
By the way: you cons need to get your talking point straight. You and others proclaim the GOP the perfect heaven for Black people. Then the next thing I hear, Michael Steele claims that some GOPers oppose him because of his race. And someone pointed out that the reason Steele was such a strong candidate in the first place was due to the fact that his main opponent, Katon Whatever from South Carolina, belonged to a segregated country club. Y’all could not find ONE candidate who did NOT involve to a segregated club? Wow . . . .
Then there is this latest self-inflicted wound:
http://www.governor.virginia.gov/OurCommonwealth/Proclamations/2010/ConfederateHistoryMonth.cfm
Confederate History Month? A month celebrating treason, enslavement of Black people, and a civil war fought to maintain enslavement of those same Black people? Is this your minority outreach program, cons? God, this sounds like something out of The Onion! Why not throw in a Nazi Beautification and Architecture Awareness Week while you are at it! Sheesh!
Like I have said: Dems have a checkered history on race. The GOP, however, has a present day problem. So take the plank out of your own eye before you keep harping on the speck in the Dems’.
@BRob, you remain reading challenged I see. No where did I claim the GOP to be “perfect heaven”…. for anyone. And that includes me. So I suggest you revisit your preschool primers for a brush up. As long as humans inhabit the planet, there is no “perfect heaven”, and scum remains to taint those of your political ilk as well as mine.
Interesting that you wish to convict Clarence Thomas for sexual allegations, despite the fact that Anita Hill was the lone ranger to accuse him and more than several testified in his defense, saying that Hill’s charges were not credible. Apparently those bastions of social justice, the dims, prefer to call that black man guilty despite convincing evidence otherwise.
It becomes more hypocritical when you defend the 46 Dems who voted against him. That would the same types that defend Bill Clinton for his proven escapades in the Oval Office to this day as his “personal life”. So Clinton gets a pass, despite the charges being true and the finger wagging, and Thomas doesn’t.
Congratulations for confirming more of what we know of you. That you are not only inclined to perpetuate hate on the past, but that only the black community that shares your political stripes get to pass go on your personal monopoly board.
INRE Confederate History Month… you are the gullible putz, aren’t you? It’s been around in seven states annually for years. And that includes thru Dem Governors. Where was your outrage then?
Your talking points remain the same, billy bob. Use the past to condemn a political class of people today. The fact you bypass your own party’s involvement in a part of America’s past … calling it a “speck”… simply shows you wear blinders for a political agenda to divide this nation. People like you are, and will always be, the greatest enemy of the black community, and a negative influence on modern society.
Mata –
On Anita Hill — Read the Merida/Fletcher book and get back to me. Among other points:
1) The authors extensively quote one of the Bush I administration handlers as saying he had a gut feeling that SOMETHING went on between Thomas and Hill. Could not explain it; just a sense.
2) There was a women who Thomas fired (before Anita Hill worked for him, I think) who had confided in friends that he sexually harassed her. Her name was Angela something. She gave an affidavit, but was not called to testify. (Joe Biden was wary of pushing it.) So, no, Anita Hill was not a “lone ranger” accuser. She was the first of two.
3) I have a close friend (a recently retired Bush II DoD appointee) who knew them both from his days with the EEOC. He believed her.
4) She had complained to friends (including her then boyfriend) contemporaneously about Thomas’ alleged comments. It takes a cunning mind to tell friends in the 1980s that you have a problem with you boss, on the if-come that he might be seeking high government office years later and, whamo, dig it out to hurt him.
5) A college friend of his remembers him joking back in the dorms at Holy Cross, accusingly yelling to some of his buddies “Who put pubic hair in my Coke?!” Then they all cracked up. He was also into pron bigtime, so it is not as if he didn’t know who Long Dong Silver was.
6) In Thomas’ autobiography, he is rather open about his drinking issues during that time. He may not even recall what he did.
7) Is it so far fetched to think that Thomas might have asked her out? Both Black professionals, both Yalies, both single, working together. As Chris Rock put it: “It was not sexual harassment. Man was tryin to get laid!”
Personally, I think they both lied. As my aunt put it at the time, “He said everything to her that she claims he said. But he said it to her when they were in bed.” I was in law school at the time and I remember having heated conversations with feminist types about this, i.e., whether women lie about being sexually harassed.
I personally think he was banging her, then started seeing his wife (maybe they overlapped) and Hill got pissed. And maybe, years later, happily married, he did not want to admit to his wife that he was seeing Hill on the side. But one of them, or both of them, was lying. The bigger point remains — there was a very good non-race based reason to vote against him: suspicion that he might not have been telling the truth.
On Virginia — you call me names, yet you know NOTHING AT ALL about the facts. It doesn’t matter whether six other backwards states had this bizarre celebration of treason and slavery: Virginia did not have it until George “Macaca” Allen started it and the two subsequent Dems ended it. Dumb McDonnell not only brings it back, but excises the language about slavery that was in prior versions of the proclamation. But as I said, as minority outreach goes, not a winner.
Finally, you said I “use the past to condemn a political class of people today.” Not hardly. That Katon guy was a member of a segregated club as of last year; McDonnell did his idotic proclamation this week. I did not mention the racist fliers and e-mails sent around before and after Obama’s election. These are the current issues you guys have. Your efforts to change the subject and claim the Dems are worse on race issues (a curious claim when they get upwards of 80% of the minority vote) does nothing to solve the GOPs problems. It is a form of denial, frankly.
One last thing: Rahm Emmanuel was quoted saying something about “not letting a crisis go to waste.” Let me use an analogy. I have a friend who is diabetic. Up until early September, he was very lackadaisical about his drinking and his diet, not exercising. He was then hospitalized for a few days with pancreatitis. He was told he had to change his ways. Since then, he has gone on insulin, started to do better with his diet, and cut back on the Scotch. He did not let his health crisis “go to waste.” He used it as a catalyst for positive change.
The GOP could use this present time of crisis to do some real soul searching about what went wrong philosphically, strategically, and tactically, whether the issue is health care or race. But all I see you cons do is sit around and engage in Obama-bashing and self-congratulatory circle j*rks. You would rather throw darts at me personally than look at the gaping problems of your own party. Frankly, since I left the GOP, I really don’t care what happens to it any more. It is now an entire party built around a collection of uneducated college drop out radio hosts. Fine . . . whatever. Just don’t say that no one warned you where things were heading. Obama is slowly dismantaling the GOP . . . and y’all don’t even notice . . . .
@MataHarley:
Nothing like watching “billy-bob” get bar-b-qued.
After reading your excellent as always response I visited Legal Insurection and his “Post of the day” was quite interesting, he referred us to:
http://keithburgess-jackson.typepad.com/blog/2010/04/a-very-dangerous-political-plaything.html
Money quote, imo:
Or, if you are normal, unless someone does you wrong, you simply respect your fellow man ….period. Lot easier than the devisive tricks that are being used on us…. all of us.
@Missy, I love Thomas Sowell, as well as Walter Williams. They’re not the types to inspire the billy bob’s of the world, eh?
But let me clarify your quote above… ‘cus I got confused. It needs the preceding comment by the blogger, Keith Burgess-Jackson, to ID what it’s all about… the progressive think-speak:
Now, for the more interesting content for me… Sowell’s column
Sowell has eloquently described the tactic I suggest billy bob uses his every appearance here… political demagoguery to divide, so his progs can conquer. One who uses this to advance his political agenda gets no respect from me.
Mata –
One other thing about “outrage” over those idiotic Confederate Heritage months, days, weeks. I don’t have any outrage, just pity, that White Southerners still feel the need to rally around the dysfunctional carcass of the Confederacy, a morally poisonous period where an entire region of this country committed armed insurrection and started a civil war, all because they wanted to enslave people. It boggles the mind that, in 2010, some people still don’t get it: slavery, bad; freedom, good. This is not “old news” or long past history; this is today, in 2010.
But let’s agree that some individuals will celebrate the Confederacy, for several reasons. Fine. But more mind boggling is why the GOP wants to wrap the treasonous flag of the Confederacy around itself. For what good purpose? Is this a smart thing to do? Why do GOPer governors insist on celebrating an insurrection and resulting war over slavery that killed hundreds of thousands of people and maimed who knows how many . . . all over the right to enslave Black people?
And, again, looking at the present day, as the GOP wraps inself in the Confederate flag, what message do you think you are sending about the party being inclusive to minorities? I would really like to know your thought process, if the point of politics is to attract more votes to your party than you repel.
Do you see the weird juxtaposition of the “party of Lincoln” now celebrating the pro-slavery Confederate heritage? And do you understand why minorities might think that they would not be welcome in your shrinking regional party? Really . . . is this a smart thing to do?
One last thing about Clarence Thomas. I had a case once where I represented a school district that was investigating whether employees had disclosed their criminal records or lied about them. I was doing what is called a Loudermill hearing, explaining the accusation against them and giving them a chance to respond, before discipline. One employee had been convicted of welfare fraud ten years before, but when she applied to the district for employment, she failed to disclose. I asked her about it and she said she had been convicted of receiving benefits after she found a job. Pled guilty, paid restitution. I asked her she failed to disclose it. She said “Because I feel like I don’t know who that person was. I am a different person now. I don’t know who that person in who stole money.” I totally understood what she meant.
The Hill/Thomas hearing happened in 1991. Hill accused him of harassing her back in the early 1980s, like 1982 or 83. According to Thomas’ autobiography (published a couple years after the Merida/Fletcher book), he was not only drinking heavily, but he was going through a divorce, living in a crap apartment in a bad school district and financially broke. He was also having some battles with Reagan administration people (Brad Reynolds, particularly) who he thought were not very sensitive in how they handled race issues. As of 1991, however, he was involved in church, remarried, lived in a nice suburb. His son was about to head off to VMI for college, he was no longer drinking, and he was under consideration for a seat on the Supreme Court.
Under the circumstances, I can totally understand if he did not remember or refused to acknowledge something he may have done years before when he was in another place mentally and spiritually. Do I think he lied in the sense of a making a knowingly false statement of fact? Hard to say. Again — I would not be surprised if he was soused when he said what she claimed he said. He sounds like he was a very lonely person at the time all that would have happened. And I can see him lying from embarassment (the same way Bill Clinton did years later) more worried about his marriage than perjuring himself. The Merida/Fletcher book points out, too, that Hill passed a polygraph test but, when asked to take one by the Bush I people, Thomas refused. That could be because he was insulted by the whole thing . . . or because he thought he could not pass it.
Yeah, I sound like a Clarence Thomas apologist. But I think there is more there than it seems. Something about him made Anita Hill mention, in the early 1980s, that he was creeping her out. And I bet if you could get him under sodium penathal, we would find out that, yes, something did happen, something he, as a now-sober, married Christian, was very ashamed to admit he had done to her. He might not have been able to admit it to himself, nonetheless confess on national television.
@billy bob, you continually display this exasperating habit of not paying attention to language details. What I said was…
Anita Hill was the only one to testify with her accusations. She was outflanked by those who testified in his defense. You talk about a tell all book and “gut” feelings. I’m talking about testifying under oath. Apparently that “under oath” bit made others balk when it’s much easier to do a tell all book without cross examination, eh?
The Confederate History Month is annual in seven states. That you choose some examples of VA alone, while ignoring that other Dem Govs have continued the tradition is indicative of your usual distraction techniques used to defend your eternal attempts to divide and stir up this nation by race. I assure you, what names I have called you on this forum are far more kind than how I feel about people who use this technique for political subterfuge.
And now… another desperate act. You attempt to elevate a common occurrence as the GOP wanting to “..wrap the treasonous flag of the Confederacy around itself”. Were you a bit more schooled in American History than in “tolerance” classes of your youth (which you obviously failed…), you’d know that a very large part of the Civil War was waged over tariffs causing a southern recession, a dissatisfaction with the state of the Union, and the southern states feeling a lack of representation. What they did was secede. For that act, they got war.
Even Lincoln had the grace to stand at Gettysburg and honor those that died from both sides of the Mason-Dixon line. You do not possess the grace of that eloquent man, billy bob.
You constantly speak of why the black community doesn’t flock to the GOP. I suggest it’s more likely because they listen too much to people like you, Jackson, Farrakhan, Sharpton, Ayers, and Wright…. instead of hearing those like Sowell, Williams, Condi and even Bill Cosby. Your hate speech, combined with political promises of handouts in return for power over personal lives drowns out voices that inspire instead of oppress. You all should wholly be ashamed of yourselves for the damage you do. Not only to the black community, but to society overall.
But no…. you, and those like you, prefer sleazy attempts to redefine Confederate History Month – remembering the good and bad of that era, and honoring those that lost their lives – as all about enshrining slavery. And you do this for the most despicable of reasons… to score political points and perpetuate racial hatred.
billy bob… get a grip. This is modern America. Advocating for slavery primarily eminates now from the halls of Congress and this occupant of the White House.
Mata –
Thomas Sowell is entitled to his opinion. But to the list of people Obama is alligned with, on one level or another, are Rev. Otis Moss, Rick Warren, Colin Powell, Paul Volker and Warren Buffett. Are these people, too, all “dividers”? Of course not!
Seriously . . . that was Sowelll’s list of Obama’s racial “sins”? Promoting to the Supreme Court a woman who followed her lower court’s precedent and dismissed a case that was later reversed on a 5-4 vote? Not prosecuting Black people who were intimidating . . . hmm, who exactly were they intimidating? The reporters? Is that a crime now? Intimidating all the hoards of Black people who were going to descend on that Philadelphia voting place and vote Republican? Ya think there was a conviction waiting there, cons? Hardly. And wanting a judge with “empathy” . . . since when is that a code word for race discrimination? Does Sowell honestly think Southern judges meted out racially discriminatory justice out of a sense of “empathy” for anyone? Sowell has become a total joke.
The main problem with conservatives is, where Obama is concerned, you have constructed a narrative of evil. But the rest of America, “real America,” simply does not see him that way, mainly because the reality does not match your rhetoric. You tried this during the campaign, and Fox News beats the drum 24/7/365. But it simply does not work because the acts the man engages in simply do not square with the accusations against him. He’s anti-Jewish? Funny how he has so many Jews running his administration. He’s a Marxist? Then why is he paling around with Warren Buffett and Larry Summers? And how can you be a Marxist and a secret Muslim, too? He is soft on terrorism? Then why have so many of them gotten smoked under his administration? He wants to take all the guns? Then why did he just sign a bill permitting guns in federal parks? And the “speech to the school kids” last fall. You cons accuse him of planning to spout Marxist Leninist propaganda and the man gives a speech saying “work hard, obey your teachers, and stay in school . . your country needs you.”
See what I mean? Cons predict he will do X, then are silent when he actually does Y. But if you had listened to him when he said “My goal is to do Y”, would might have been at least fighting the right battle. And the vast middle of the country, the indepedents and moderates, would not be shakling their heads as the spittle flies out of your frustrated, angry maws.
But keep it up, cons! All the scary rhetoric is working . . .. for Obama and the Dems!
You’ve got a lot of babbling in the above there, billy bob. Nothing really new. Like Obama, I wonder why you type anew with you can just lift/paste the same ol, same ol’… or just refer to speech/comment # x.
Let’s boil it all down to this.. the second constant thrust you have after promoting racial division in the nation… and that’s where you some say conservatives are portraying “scary rhetoric” as somehow larger in life for “real America”. (an America that apparently doesn’t include tea party attendees or conservatives in your “real” America.. LOL)
Actually, Obama is doing, or attempting to do, everything he promised on the campaign trail. I predicted he’d go for the socialized gold ring, and he has. Take over car companies? Check. Exert control over salaries? Check. Take over health care? Check. Save the world from global warming by passing cap and trade? oops… can’t get it thru the Congressional channels. He’ll do it by regulations…. fuel standards increase? Check. Double check because that’s another kneecap to private auto companies here in the states as well. EPA regulating CO2? Still working on it, but throwing rubber bones to pretend to “drill” to make it look good. Immigration reform? Working on it… gotta have some votes when the indys and moderates bolt from the progressive party, ya know.
No surprise from me on Obama, billy bob. He is doing all I predicted and what he promised. Those who seem surprised are so because of two reasons.
1: Didn’t understand how it would affect their wallets and freedom or
2: Didn’t believe he’d do it because they were too mesmerized by the chants and the Greek columns, not listening.
Woulda just been easier to let the guy run for president of Spain instead. Yeah… I could support that campaign. Get Obama out of my house in DC.
Mata –
You are trying to rewrite both the actual history and what you wrote. You wrote “….the fact that Anita Hill was the lone ranger to accuse him.”
This is false. There was another person who worked for Thomas, Angela Wright, who also had complained about him to a friend, prior to A. Hill complaining to her friends.
You also wrote “Anita Hill was the only one to testify with her accusations.” This is also not entirely accurate. The other woman submitted an affidavit. It is a sworn statement, offered under penalty of perjury. In a court of law, that, too, is considered fact testimony. True, she did not give LIVE testimony, but that was not because she was not willing to testify live. Biden agreed not to call her after the GOPers argued that it was not necessary.
Your misstatements continue. You said Hill was “outflanked by those who testified in his defense. . . . I’m talking about testifying under oath. Apparently that ‘under oath’ bit made others balk. . . .” You casually forget the fact that Anita Hill also had her former boyfriend (then a partner in a NYC law firm), and three friends (one a judge) recount how she complained to them BACK IN THE EARLY 1980S about Thomas sexually harassing her. What motivation would they have had to lie about that? And no one “outflanked” her because what she said could only have been refuted by people who witnessed what happened; and the only other witness was Thomas, and he DID NOT WATCH HER TESTIMONY. Did you not remember that part? Probably not . . . .
Then you said “Apparently that ‘under oath’ bit made others balk when it’s much easier to do a tell all book without cross examination, eh?” If you had read the book, you would see how far off base your statement is. The person who said he had a “gut feeling” somethign happened between Thomas and Hill was one of the Bush administration handlers who was trying to help Thomas get confirmed! The guy who remembered the pubic hair on the Coke can was an attorney and college friend of his. He was sitting in his chair at home watching her testimony when he remembered Thomas’ joke back in the day. He did not mention this for years because he was sympathetic to Thomas and he thought the allegations were overblown. But he mentioned that Hill could not have “made up” the pubic hair in the Coke comment, because he had heard the same thing before. What are the odds that she would “guess right” on such a comment? Not to mention Thomas’ apparent fascination with pron, another subject covered in the book. Like I said . . . read Thomas’ book, then read the Merida/Fletcher book (the sequence I read them), and you will probably come to the same concusion I did: something happened that he is very embarassed about.
I am all dewy eyed at your touching sentimental pride in the exploits of the Confederacy. But the fact that you think Blacks vote Dem because of Jesse Jackson, as opposed to the GOP’s boasting of the Confederate cause, tells me one thing: you obviously don’t know many Black people! I guess, in your thinking, the Blacks should just “get over” that whole slavery thing . Yeah . . . that’ll sell, coming from a party wrapped in the stars and bars.
You keep mentioning the Dem governors who are boosters of the Confederacy. Care to name names and offer some evidence? But the more telling point, which you can’t seem to get through your head: the Dems ain’t the ones having a problem attracting minority votes. The GOP is. As such, you would think that the GOP, which does have such a problem, would be sensitive and try harder NOT to needlessly alienate a massive and growing group of voters who do not vote R. But the lame brain GOPers do the exact opposite . . . and are proud of it! (Funny, T. Sowell never mentions that point about race and politics and its affect on America.) But here is a hint, cons: if you want to attract minority voters, you might want to AVOID entanging your party in the treasonous battle flag of a defeated pro-chattel slavery regime.
Finally, you think the Confederate cause was not about the preservation of slavery, huh? Then what the hell was it about? Freedom from federal interference . . . to do what? Own frakking slaves!
Mata –
I almost missed this gem: “But no…. you, and those like you, prefer sleazy attempts to redefine Confederate History Month – remembering the good and bad of that era, and honoring those that lost their lives – as all about enshrining slavery.”
Please explain to me what the “good” part of the Confederate era was, in your opinion. This should be quite interesting.
Another thing. You wrote: “And you do this for the most despicable of reasons… to score political points and perpetuate racial hatred.”
Are you of the opinion that the Confederate cause, to which the GOP happily aligns itself, does NOT promote “racial hatred”? OK. Can you explain this picture for me? I just don’t get what it means.
http://ladylibertyslamp.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/kkk.jpg
Wow.
Jim Webb is a Republican…Who knew?
“The venerable Robert E. Lee has taken some vicious hits, as dishonest or misinformed advocates among political interest groups and in academia attempt to twist yesterday’s America into a fantasy that might better service the political issues of today,” he wrote. “The greatest disservice on this count has been the attempt by these revisionist politicians and academics to defame the entire Confederate Army in a move that can only be termed the Nazification of the Confederacy.”
Read his 2004 book ButtRub. He’s one proud Confederate who won 85% of the Black vote in his state, so I guess by that evidence, it’s ain’t about supporting the cross-starred flag, it’s about the handouts, as Mata implied.
Or how about Dean claiming that he wanted to be the “candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks.”?
Nope. Nothing to see here, move along.
-And I’m sick to death of hearing this lying bag of shit claim he was “once a Republican”.
billy bob, again with your round and round repeats? What is it… you have two or three original thoughts and talking points, and 10 ways to say them? You’ve exhausted them all, guy.
Again you misinform. Anita Hill was the only person who testified against Thomas. And it fact, it was a he said/she said argument. So why don’t you provide us links to the Senate hearings transcript of her boyfriend and those other accusers you say who testified. Hey, it was only 1991… those transcripts are available. Do it fast… Obama and Congress are busy spending my social security, and I’m aging by the minute as you attempt to dig up the impossible.
And no… I’m not talking about affidavits. Sending a nice little letter or audio tape where you’re sworn in doesn’t carry the weight of the accuser, standing before the questioners and available for cross examination. Nor does it cut the mustard for credibility. Nice try, bubba. You’re not one with enough skills to play the parse words, game. Again, perhaps you can have your paralegal step in for you? We’d pine for some more intelligent debate.
On your other roundabout…. again I said, the Confederate History Month has been an annual proclamation for seven southern states for years now… thru both Dem and GOP governors. You have remained silent about every year there is a Confederate History Month proclaimed under a Dem governor. What is it about your brick gray matter that disallows facts from entering?
As far Civil War and the value of lessons to be learned… which is always good… again you don’t want to acknowledge history. The Civil War was about many events that culminated in the south seceding. Tariffs protecting the north were destroying the southern economy. It is good to learn that, in history, states did decide to exercise their rights to combat legislative and representative federal oppression that negatively affects them and their citizens. Sound familiar? Look around. Tea party rallies to protest taxes. AG’s battling health care unfunded mandates and infringement on states rights issues. The same is for the Ayers-educated idiots who think the Boston Tea Pary was only about tea taxes, and totally ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room – the mandate that the colonies buy their tea from England. Rarely are such events about a single item…. only in your revisionist history books.
And oh, BTW… a state’s secession is not treason. By gosh… downright frightful what law schools turn out these days. And in fact, were secession treason, this nation is founded upon the same since what is the Declaration but an act of “treason” by your erroneous parsing of Constitutional law? Secession has never been determined to be Constitutional, nor unConstitutional, billy bob. You’re embarrassing….
In today’s times, we have more power and influence, because of better communications tools, to exercise before such an extreme as secession is needed. However the fiscal elements from the Civil War era are, again, present. And respect of history and it’s lessons… good and bad… is the hallmark of a future success.
But you keep coming back to the same ol’, same ol’….the GOP “happily aligns itself” with a “Confederate cause” despite the fact of the Confederate History Month’s proclamation history. What an obvious game you play, billy bob. Are you the Obama cream of the crop cyber team? Slam dunk…. You hope to prey on aligning everything Civil War with slavery, and by tanget to the GOP today. Were not the former historically inaccurate, the latter is positively a delusional leap of propaganda. Do you really find people dumb enough to buy that crap just so you can perpetuate hatred?
Also, again you lie when you put words into my mouth as “…touching sentimental pride in the exploits of the Confederacy”. Nowhere in my commentary have I expressed “pride” in the actions of the Confederate States, nor have I ever advocated for slavery. So let me say this to you, you losing SOB… I didn’t think you could get any lower that the wannabe attorney snake under a rock racist than you are now. But you have. Do not apply to me what’s lives 24/7 in your racist mind. I will, unlike you, at least defend Americans in those states to reflect on their own past, and recognize it in their own way without applying your racial accusations to the same. Because I’m pretty darned sure there isn’t a GOP governor in a southern state that wants to reinstate slavery. But I’m equally sure they are livid about federal taxes and intrusion in their Constitutional regulatory rights.
And frankly, billy bob, I’m really getting tired of bailing you out of the pending and spam bins…. something I am not responsible for, BTW. I’m one of those here more tolerant of you in the interest of free speech…. and even more, to allow you to again make an ass of yourself publicly. But at this moment, I see another piece of crap like that from you, you can wait until the cows come home before I personally bail you out. You’ll have to be at the mercy of other authors… who are not as tolerate of you as I am. .
@Patvann.. “… once a Republican..” LOL! THere’s a few of us here who know who billy bob is. And of course, the FEC records of donations don’t lie. If he was a Republican, he’s on record for sending his political tithing to the Dems.
I know who he is, too.
An asshole.
@Patvann… you’re insulting assholes by associating B-Rob the Liar, Waster of Air and Time with them. I’ve finally figured out how to deal with B-Rob’s posts…. I read two sentences max, then spend a moment in amazement at how monkeys have advanced their typing skills. The balance of the post I ignore it’s something I’ve probably already read in a past iteration.
@ BRob
You were doing “kinda” good in #85, then you toss out #86.
I was born and raised in the South. Born in Memphis and now live outside Atlanta. I love the South. We are a very proud people; all of us, regardless of color. I had a Confederate flag when I was young, which is longer in the past than I care to admit. It had nothing to do with color or people, just pride in the attitude of the South. An attitude that you are completely misrepresenting. In classic cliche, I had and still have friends of all colors. One of my best friends when I was around 8 was black. We played baseball together. He had a Confederate flag in his bedroom. Being Southern transcends race. I’m half Blackfoot Indian, my wife is Mexican, my kids are a beautiful mixture of both of us.
Let’s start with Andrew Jackson, a man I truly loathe. Although a son of the South, he was a complete Jack-ass. Thus the symbol of the democrat party. Please look it up if you don’t believe me. Jackson started the “war between the States.” It can’t really be called a “civil war,” because a civil war is fought between factions for the control of a single government. The South had no interest in the North whatsoever. They just wanted to be left alone and gain independence. Now back to our story. Jackson asked Congress to pass the Force Bill to use military force to enforce a tariff that South Carolina ruled unconstitutional and made it null and void. See, the North wanted the South to buy and trade with their manufacturing companies exclusively. Jackson and Congress ended up passing a compromise tariff and South Carolina ended its talks of succession.
The North constantly stuck its nose in the affairs of the South. There was a constant call for the South to purchase equipment from the North for their ag needs, but it was often cheaper to get the equipment from Europe. There were the laws against moonshine, (we call it the war against the revenuers). Less than .5% of the Southern population owned slaves. For most Southerners, the fight wasn’t one of slavery, although I’ll grant it was a major issue, it was a fight against intrusive government. Spin it as you will, but that is just the way it is.
You condemn the Confederate flag. I despise the symbol of the democrat party, a symbol that represents Andrew Jackson. The man that force marched thousands of men, women and children to their death. The Indian Removal Act, something I happen to be very familiar with, even though I am not of Cherokee descent. A bunch of folks from Georgia found out there was gold on the Cherokee lands. Surely they taught you in law school about Worcester v. Georgia. No? The Supreme Court said the Indians were entitled to their land. Jackson told Marshall to go f*** himself. Please don’t give me any crap about John Ridge, I’ll hand you your a$$ on a platter. Yet you dims are proud to display that symbol of ethnic cleansing day in and day out. And if you would like to see the great works of the United States Government on behalf of the Native Americans, I urge you to visit a reservation, any reservation. Look at how well dependence on the government has done for the people of my ancestors. I thank God everyday that my great grandparents left and hid in plain sight. By denying their heritage, they gave me a chance at a real life. Without that act, I would be living on The Rez, waiting for my next gummit check. Take down the Jack-ass flag BRob, it’s a reminder to all Native Americans of ethnic cleansing.
TALLGRASS this 92 comment from 92 AQUA, will surely interest you being CHEROKIE,,i find it very well done and informative,thank’s bye
zing…. serious bulleye archer shot there, Aqua. Glad you had more patience than I to expand on the Civil War fiscal issues that get ignored in revisionist history for the American History challenged billy bob.
Since I work a lot with NAYA, I see many that share your feelings about “hiding in plain sight”… whether with IHS or the far more recent history of treatment at the hands of a supposed social welfare government under control of either party.
Darnitt, Don! I’m running out of expletives here!
How ’bout: “He who is beneath”.
@MataHarley:
Do you mean that BRob, the semi-literate imbecille is actually the product of an Ivy League education, and liscensed to practice law in at least one state of our nation? Wow!
Blows the mind, eh Flyover? You really want to depress yourself? Go to the SCOTUS site and start reading oral argument briefs. Transcripts of attorneys who command all sorts of kudos and big bucks because they pled cases before the High Court robed ones.
What you’ll come away with is that those robed ones are unforgiving and quicker than a whip. Only a fool goes in there unprepared, stammering around on legal concepts that fly in the face of precendents and historic opinions.
That means the second thing you come away with is that a high percentage of fools hired to go before that bench – supposedly the cream of the legal beagle crop – do little to give us faith in our legal education system. So billy bob’s inadequacy here doesn’t necessarily surprise me. Appalled? Hang yes… but no surprise.
@ Mata
Unfortunately, the tribal reps at the BIA are more entrenched than Robert Byrd. I’ve read that more and more young people are leaving The Rez and not returning. I have mixed feelings, one being elation that they will find freedom and one that American Indians will soon cease to exist as a race.
I know my friend Old Trooper donates to The Rez every year, nice of you to give time as well. I try to get around once a year, but I don’t always make it. And it always breaks my heart and raises my blood pressure.
It’s funny, because of my wife, I have a lot of Latin friends. Two of them are Dominican, both black. But they’ll slap you if you call them that, they’re Dominican. And they say when the become American citizens, they’ll be American. I don’t ever recall hearing of an African-French or an Asian-Brit. Never heard of a Latin-German or a European-Japanese. Until our goverment drops the hypenated needs of our hypenated country, we’ll just be hyphenated.
AQUA hi,i would like to say that the indians play an important role in the history of AMERICA,and i am including CANADA also as they are called FIRST NATION,and it fit exactly that, i always pay attention when i read from someone who belong to one of thoses many different tribes,all the storys should be written in a book for the young generation to be proud of the ancient knowledge that all people profit from in many way, bye
@Aqua I know that about the BIA, and even some elders, Aqua. But let me give you heart. From those I’ve worked with, no one loses their identity, culture and history merely because they assimilate off rez. The culture, the respect, the dancing and handing it down to ensuing generations is alive and well in the middle of urban concrete jungles. They’ve just stepped up the quality of the teepees. I learn much from them, as they do from me.
My parents are the first born generation here. We’ve lost much of the culture because of international marriages and a language gap. Hard for my parents to communicate with each other in their youth when their households were bilingual in completely different original native languages. My maternal side kept it up with my grandmother. My father preferred to stick to English. Still, I don’t feel we are “lost”. We are Americans with diverse backgrounds and continue that in our family to this day… a virtual melting pot. “Purity”, in that sense, is overrated. I have great respect for traditions. But I see no reason to be ostracized from modern civilization in order to do so. I think the young see this as well.
@Patvann… that works.
@BRob #83:
Thomas Sowell is awesome!
As for some of these Obama supporters you mention, a number of them are beginning to have some doubts and experiencing buyer’s remorse.
Powell….
@BRob #83:
Not so sure about the “palin’ around with capitalists” claim, BRob:
What’s up with the rumors on Larry Summers? More disharmony in Obama Nation?
I’d say Summer’s is buggin’ out before the fiscal “incoming” comes home to roost, Word.
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