This is just beyond asinine. (h/t doubleplusundead)
Sun columnist Jon Ralston is reporting that the Tea Party has qualified as a third party in Nevada and will have a candidate in the Senate race to battle for the seat held by Majority Leader Harry Reid.
The party has filed a Certificate of Existence but needs to get 1 percent of the electorate to vote for its candidate in November to permanently qualify, according to the report.
Ralston reported that Jon Ashjian will be the Tea Party’s U.S. Senate candidate on the November ballot. Ashjian still must declare his candidacy.
Awesome…..this goes a long way towards ensuring Harry Reid stays the Senator of that State.
Look, I’m all for the tea party being a force behind conservatives and agree with much that they stand for but dammit….making a third party is just a recipe for disaster. A complete and utter disaster.
UPDATE
Many thanks to the Freepers who have investigated this Tea Party of Nevada group:
Dr. Sid James, Chairman
Curtis Atwood, Vice Chairman (Atwood Building & Development (LV), contractor)
Eric Scholer, Second Vice Chairman (Scholer Steele & Associates (LV), insurance)
Barry Levinson, Secretary (Personal injury/bankruptcy attorney and former attorney for John Wayne Bobbitt)
Daniel Hayden, Treasurer
Kiana Hayden, At Large Member
Romy Ashjian, At Large Member
Keith Ozawa, At Large Member (President of American Leak Detection, Las Vegas, Nevada)
Jim Ebel, At Large Member
Larry Lathum, At Large Member
More on this Keith Ozawa:
Leland Keith Ozawa, Jr. (CRD #2119830, Registered Representative, Las Vegas, Nevada) submitted a Letter of Acceptance, Waiver, and Consent in which he was fined $5,000 and suspended from association with any NASD member in any capacity for two months. Without admitting or denying the allegations, Ozawa consented to the described sanctions and to the entry of findings that he participated in private securities transactions without providing prior written notice to, and receiving written approval from, his member firm.
Ozawa’s suspension began October 21, 2002, and will conclude at the close of business December 20, 2002. (NASD Case #C02020046)
A bit more:
Looks like Scholer and the Haydens are related:
http://kalamareunion.blogspot.com/
Kiana Hayden: http://kianaonp90x.blogspot.com/
“Dr.” Sid James (that kind of waving of useless credentials screams third party jerk to me) doesn’t have much of a web footprint.
Bottom line: They seem to all be related or connected via real estate in Las Vegas (except maybe the lawyer). There’s virtually nothing that can be found about them, including activity in the Tea Party itself.
Thanks to Freepers Amishdude and Pan_Yan for their excellent research
Just based on the limited research from the Freepers it’s looking more and more like this “candidate” and his group are hijacking the Tea Party name.
UPDATE
Mata looked into the group herself and came up with a few more interesting facts on the ambulance chaser. Looks like he also enjoys suing the LVPD:
Guy with broken neck due to arrest “abuse” and a chopped video tape.. where they settled
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=7751723
Here’s another in 2002 that he sued the police on behalf of a guy who’s DNA got mixed up with his cellmates (note, he was already serving a sentence when the cellmate accused Levinson’s plaintiff of rape, and they obtained both their DNA samples). Then the alleged raper got nailed for a year’s sentence based on the DNA later….
This chairman, Dr. Sid James, is pretty much invisible on the net. So is pretty much every person in the group. No political papertrail to follow.
This is some group that has used the tea party name for their own benefit.
UPDATE
Now we are starting to get an idea about whose benefit they are working for…..why, the Paulbots. The Neveda News Bureau has done an excellent job of culling together bits and pieces:
Here are some snippets from my research so far:
Barry Levinson was part of the “Bush Lied, People Died” cabal (very strange creds for a Tea Party guy).
Not really core to the story but one of the principals, Larry Lathum, appears to be a 9/11 Truther.
~~~And from another (Nevada) source:
“The party’s candidate Jon Scott Ashjian has connections with Brittain Ashjian; both are listed on each others LLC’s docs with the state. (Go to http://nvsos.gov/sosentitysearch/CorpSearch.aspx and do an office search on Ashjian). A lot of the officers and resident agents for Ashjian are also “officers” for the Party. This just smells…
The Ashjian’s have listings for over 10 LLC’s including the following names:
Bada-Bling, LLC
W.I.T. Bro, LLC AKA AA Paving.
24/Construction, LLC
W.S.C.I. LLC
Two Amigos, LLC
Cajun Express, LLC
Squidman, LLC
The 1720, LLC
TNT Energy Products, LLC
RNC Properties, LLCAlmost all of the LLC’s have various registered agents or officers with address of 4485 N. RAINBOW, Las Vegas.
~~~A search of the Contractor’s Board website rendered these results re: a complaint and pending hearing & action re: Tea Party of Nevada candidate Jon Ashjian:
License Number: 0038420
Current Date: 02/15/2010 04:36 PM(mm/dd/yyyy)
Business Primary Name: JON SCOTT ASHJIAN DBA
License Monetary Limit: $250,000.00
Fictitious Business Name: A & A ASPHALT PAVING COMPANY
Business Address: 4485 N RAINBOW BLVD, LAS VEGAS, NV 89108
Phone Number: (702)891-9111
Status: Summary Suspension
Status Date: 02/03/2010 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Origin Date: 11/02/1994 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Expiration Date: 11/30/2010 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Business Type: Individual
Classification(s): A-8 – SEALING & STRIPING OF ASPHALTIC SURFACES
A12 – EXCAVATING GRADING TRENCHING & SURFACING
A16 – PAVING STREETS,DRIVEWAYS & PARKING LOTS
Principal Name Relation Description: ASHJIAN, JON SCOTT Owner Qualified Individual
Bonds
Bond Type: Surety Bond
Bond Number: FS7782036
Bond Agent: HUDDLESON, KATHLEEN A
Surety Company: GREAT AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY
Bond Amount: $15,000.00
Effective Date: 09/15/2006 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Cancellation Date: 03/28/2010 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Disciplinary Actions
Date: 12/29/2009 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Discipline Type:
Discipline document: Pending – Disciplinary action is pending against this licensee in the form of a Disciplinary Hearing.
Number Of Complaints: 1 complaint is associated with this action.
Notice: The pending action alleges the following violations. Upon final adjudication some violations or cases may be found to be without merit.
Violation(s): NRS 624.3013(3) Failure to establish financial responsibility, NRS 624.3016(1) Fraudulent or deceitful act
Action(s): Pending Adjudication.
The information contained on these pages are provided as a courtesy and may not reflect recent changes or updates. Neither the completeness nor accuracy is guaranteed. The Nevada State Contractors Board shall have no liability or responsibility for loss and damages arising from the information provided or retrieved from these pages.
No telling if this is legit or not until the Board makes their final call. Will keep an eye on it and keep you posted.
~~~As reported by Ralston over the weekend and as shown in that list of LLCs above, there is also a Jon Ashjian listed as the resident agent of TNT Energy Products, LLC. The address for that entity is the same as for A&A Asphalt Paving Company. Which is the same as the address for the office of Barry Levinson.
Go to the website for more including a statement from Barry Levinson.
Either way, the Bush Lied People Died and 911 Twoofer kinda of people scream, absolutely SCREAM Paulbot to me.
I couldn’t agree more. No one I know wants a 3rd party at this time. We have to take back the country through an established channel first. If Reid wins because of this siphoning off of votes from other conservatives it will not bode well for the movement…and if a Tea Party candidate is beaten by another Republican conservative it will weaken the movement as well…making it look irrelevant. Are we sure he’s not a stealth candidate set up by the Dims just for this purpose…or to confuse? I put nothing past them. Freaking criminals.
Thanks for getting the word out – let’s make encouraging phone calls to all those involved here. Encourage them to run a Tea Party candidate of their choice in the Republican primary.
Harry is probably funding the guy
You beat me too it Jane, run the candidate in the primary’s, but for the love of all things conservative, back whoever wins the primary. Running as a third party, does nothing but ensure failure, and keeping a socialist in power. I thought the TEA party was to take over the GOP from the grass roots?
Sarge
Thank Glenn Beck..
I like the Idea I think we need major change and not from a politician
This is why the Tea Party should stay as an advocate and grass roots group.
There are going to be 9 people running for that seat. There is going to be a Republican, a Democrat, somebody from the tea party and 6 independents. It’s just not going to be three people running. Also there is no real Tea Party. There is no leadership. Any independent can walk in as say they are filing as part of the Tea Party.
My first instinct was to agree with you. But upon reflection I’m not so sure.
The whole idea of the Tea Party movement is to give a wake up call to our politicians – most especially the Republican Party which has become almost as progressive as the Democrats in recent years.
The Republican Party has still not embraced fully the platform of the Tea Party. They have given some lip service, but little else. If the Tea Party automatically rolls over and endorses GOP candidates at this point, we will continue to get RINOs.
The GOP needs to adopt a new Contract With America approach, with a one-page platform promising to actually reduce government intrusion, to tell the people the truth, that government is not there to take care of you, and if you think that you can retire only on Social Security and Medicare, you’re delusional.
The Tea Party needs to take this right up to the election. By October, the GOP leadership, seeing the right split and handing a victory to the Dems, should realize that we (the Tea Party movement) are fu&%ing serious, and make the changes that need to be made. The we can endorse them.
Until then, I have stopped all my family’s donations to the GOP.
@Dreadnought: Which is why you support the conservative candidate of your choice in primaries; after primaries, you go with the candidate who majority of fellow conservatives have decided is the best choice for winning in the general election.
@Dreadnought: So you are going to punish the GOP by re-electing Harry Reid?
Do you really think the entire country should be punished along with the GOP?
Perhaps you need to reflect again.
Yes, it would be very fool hardy to let Sen. Reid remain in his ivory tower because of a snafu like this. As with what Wordsmith said hopefully we will get the best conservative candidate and all the sane people of Nevada will back him or her and we can rid ourselves of this travesty of our current senator.
@Wordsmith:
That’s exactly the point. The GOP should be treating this as a warning shot – that they had better choose a conservative candidate in the primaries, or else the party will be split.
If the primaries produce conservative candidates (and I am talking about fiscal conservative constitutionalists – the Tea Party doesn’t give a crap about abortion, gay marriage, etc), then the Tea Party candidates will bow out of the race, giving their full endorsement to the GOP.
The Tea Party needs to keep the pressure up – otherwise we will continue to get progressive RINOs.
Mike’s America:
The Arlen Specter for Senate campaign can be found online. Tell ol’ Arlen that you’re on his side…
…and when you’re through, there’s Charlie Crist who can use some encouragement (Obama didn’t want to hug him anymore), Oympia Snowe is feeling down, them ol’ bigots just won’t shut up and Lindsay Graham could use a pat on the back, and-of course- there’s the man who gave us President Barack Obama: John McCain.
They’ll all be glad to get your support, now that the peasants are restless… they need as much support as they can get to retain their rightful place among the elites. Go and offer your support.
If the GOP doesn’t want to put up candidates the voters want to vote for, it’s not the voters’ fault.
The Tea Party movement, or candidates professing to be part of it, are not to blame if Reid wins again.
Far to often politicians on both sides of the aisle put all of their effort into one thing, getting re-elected and the Repubilcans are just as guilty about this as the Democrats.
Careerism at the state and federal level is killing this country so I think the real blame needs to be put where it belongs, the self serving two party system.
I voted for Ron Paul for President because I felt he was one of the only decent constitutionalists running for office and I get to listen to lots of people saying you Ron Paul voters gave Obama the election. Horse Hockey!
Don’t give me a conservative candidate to vote for whose day in the sun has long since come and gone and expect me to just vote party lines…
If I see a thrid party candidate out there as the best person for the job, don’t blame me when I vote for them. That blame belongs with the two party system that has abandoned the American people…
I agree whole heartedly with you, if the Teaparty gets itself into the political game of running contestants it will defeat itself. I believe in the Teaparty and we should be backing conserative candidates not letting politicians corrupt it, and that will happen.
Overall, I agree about no 3rd party in America until I realize that, if we don’t have a 3rd party then the Republicans will continue as they are….i.e. big govt./foreign wars/excess taxes. NY might have the first Teaparty going to DC next week.
The Republican party will not come back to us unless a TeaParty group forces them to return to their party platform & represetn you & me. Right now, there are no major difference between the Democrats or Republicans. It’s business as usual, big govt., lost of rights & more bureaucrats.
I suggest that everyone read that new book just out about a small town in America that does stand up to federal tyranny (corrupt pol. parties & politicians) & ends up starting the
2nd American Revolution.
It’s a must read for 2010 & what coming.
http://www.booksbyoliver.com
DaveP #14, agreed.
Others: I will support fiscal, defense, borders conservatives when and if the GOP runs them, they haven’t in a very long time and seem resistant to still. And yes, I would rather see Harry Reid showing himself to be an idiot than a RINO pushing the same or slightly watered down agenda. I can not concious voting for the lessor of two evils anymore, it may be best for the GOP but it is not best for the nation, it only serves to push the political spectrum further and further toward “evil”. This isn’t a football game where winning is the only thing that’s important.
I am persoanally grateful the BHO beat McCain, at least we don’t have a RINO trying to erase the borders as POTUS. As it is BHO is a wake up call which along with the TEA movement might, just might, force the GOP to give us a true conservative. If McCain had been elected do you really think the Democrats would have given us one????
No sir, rewarding the GOP for being “not quiet as liberal” as the Democrats is bull, the RINOs either need to adapt or go extinct. If they want to keep the TEA Part candidate from being a facator let them run a candidate who is MORE CONSERVATIVE than the Tea Party candidate.
Mike said….
@Dreadnought: So you are going to punish the GOP by re-electing Harry Reid?
Do you really think the entire country should be punished along with the GOP?
Perhaps you need to reflect again.
And if Palin should prove me wrong, not be an establishment hack, and run as a third-party cadidate? What would you do then if it spelled doom for the GOP in 2012?
Would you vote for Palin (TP) over say Romney (R)?
Frankly, the nation needs a real mix-up like that, but it would ensure a Democratic majority in both chambers and the White House for a very long time.
We don’t need socialist control of our nation.
pure and simple, get the dimocrats out of power. i don’t want arguments about pure republican and all that. neither do the americans who are angry. they want people to step up to the plate and if the dimocrats are running straw pols then let’s find them and make sure not to vote for them. the mass election set the standard for us.
It seems as though many Conservatives are happiest when proving their moral superiority teaching the GOP a lesson by handing elections to liberals. Why not:
1) Target your donations
2) Work for your candidate during the primary
3) Support the GOP candidate that wins the primary
Obama will have at least 2 Supreme Court appointments. How can any conservative be happy Obama beat McCain? Any one who thinks Obama was better for the country than McCain – for whatever reason – should never again complain about Supreme Court decisions.
Can’t we just agree to concentrate on defeating Reid, Bayh, etc , whatever it takes?
Well said skat
Obama will have at least 2 Supreme Court appointments. How can any conservative be happy Obama beat McCain? Any one who thinks Obama was better for the country than McCain – for whatever reason – should never again complain about Supreme Court decisions.
Can’t we just agree to concentrate on defeating Reid, Bayh, etc , whatever it takes?
No one is happy Obama beat McCain. It’s like having the Communist or the Socialist running your life. Either one is bad, but one is worse than the other.
I’m sick of voting for the lesser of two evils.
Well Skat, what difference does it make if the liberal elected is a democrat or republican? Bush 41 appointed Sotomyer to the federal bench in the first place. And don’t forget Souter who ended his career decidedly on the left.
I say again, if the GOP wants conservative support they should run conservative candidates, if they don’t someone else will.
It appears to me that it is the GOP faithful who want to punish conservatives and the nation at large for not abandoning their principles like the GOP has.
Nice shoot’n JustAl.
Fire for effect, fire for effect.
JustAl and Ivan
Following your logic the US would have been better off if Al Gore had beaten GW. Of course, Kerry would really have been a wonderful president, a much better choice than GW.
Yeah, Souter, also O’Connor, was a real disappointment caused by trying to sneak someone thru confirmation.
Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts vs Ginsberg and Sotomayer – gee, I’ll take the Republican’s appointments any day.
Don’t forget we have Clinton to thank, with help from Ross Perot, to thank for partial-birth abortion.
Conservatives continue to insist on the perfect, pure candidate or else. Once the policy results of giving control to liberals begin, conservatives moan about the country going to the dogs. Conservatives also begin to demand the few Republicans left in the House and Senate do the impossible – block the liberal agenda.
If anyone can prove this strategy actually works for America, let alone conservatives, I’ll support it. Otherwise, I’ll support the conservative in the primary, then work for the winner of the primary. There is too much at stake and, in my opinion, the price is too high to keep people like Reid in office. Dems are running scared! Why give them election victories by splitting the conservative or Republican vote?
Skat,
Wrong. Conservatives just want someone who is about 60-80% in agreement with their principles. More would be better, but most of us are realists.
For example, I’d rather see a conservative Democrat in Arlen Specter’s seat in PA than a Republican Arlen Specter (Yes, I know he’s changed parties).
Fortunately, using Al’s and my logic, Specter changed parties and now a good conservative will take his seat! If Specter hadn’t changed parties we’d be stuck with a hyper-liberal in that seat.
See, by your logic any Republican is better than any Democrat.
Wrong.
As bad as Gov. Richardson (D) of New Mexico is, he’s far, far better than Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) of California. Richardson cut taxes, Arnold raised them. Richardson dramatically expanded concealed carry (introduced it in fact) while Arnold signed gun bans (.50 cals).
Ivan,
“Blue Dog Democrats” in the house or senate – do they vote with conservatives or the Democrats?
Arlen switched because he knew he would lose the Republican primary.
Governorships are an entirely different matter. You are talking about individual states suffering the consequences of their own elections. State governors aren’t going to be appointing or confirming US Supreme Court justices.
Napalitano vs Matt Salmon came down to Joe Arpaio endorsing Napalitano (Dem) instead of Salmon(Rep, Conservative). Arizonans were told that Janet was a “conservative Democrat”, Sheriff Joe’s endorsement really sealed Janet’s election. Guess what? Janet wasn’t a conservative Democrat – going to be on strong illegal immigration, ha – or if she was a “conservative Democrat” that doesn’t translate to a definition of “conservative” any of us would be happy with.
Just a few lessons taught to Republicans for the good of the country:
Santorum with Casey
Coleman with Franken
DeWine with Brown
McCain with Obama
Do you honestly believe we wouldn’t be better off with these Republicans vs these Democrats?
Obviously, we can’t vote out Supreme Court Justices so we’re stuck with what we get as the result of Presidential, Senatorial elections. Surely you agree that the Republican appointments are much better overall than the Democratic appointments?
National defense? Illegal immigration? National debt? National healthcare? The non-existent “conservative Democrats” are going to toe the Democrat party line on these issues. I’m with you, get conservative Republicans. In my opinion, we have a better chance of stopping these liberal agendas, more chance of influencing outcomes, with Republicans.
Ivan,
Another thing, you can’t compare Richardson to Schwarengger – they weren’t running against each other.
Richardson’s Republican opponent was John Sanchez – a self-made, small business success story. Sanchez was for cutting taxes, etc – a real conservative. Richardson doesn’t seem like the better choice when compared with his actual opponent.
Arnold replaced Gray Davis. Arnold defeated the Democrat Cruz Bustamente, a Democrat to the left of Arnold. Would you support Davis or Bustamente over Arnold?
If Arnold and Riechardson ever run against each other you’ll have a valid comparison.
skat,
If Gore being elected had awakened the conservative base as Obama’s did, then yes, we would have been better off. The sooner people wake up and take the country back from the WWF of politics where they put on a show of opposing each other during the day and toast the ignorance of the masses at happy hour, the sooner we can put the country back on track.
Did either Bush try, even try to protect our borders? No. Did either Bush try, even try to decrease the size of government and defecits? No. Gore has proven himself to be a complete and public fool, just how much of his program do you think he could have implemented? What a noble campaign that was, both of them trying to outbid the other in how many drugs they could get to the old folks. How about, a candidate that says, “you know, it isn’t the government’s job to supply you with drugs.”? Na, that would be too “third party.”
Know this; many of us are tired of the media picking the candidates for both parites and arbitrairly labeling the Republican candidate as “conservative” and Democrat candidate as “centrist”, that goes for the GOP establishment as well.
Bush 41 lost to Clinton because he betrayed conservative values, “read my lips” and oh well, let’s just take our foot off Saddam’s neck and let a future generation handle it. The situation then is just like the situation now. If the GOP had provided a suitable candidate Ross Perot would not have run, the GOP can either learn history or repeat it.
We the people are the “customer” the political party is the “supplier” if we don’t buy their product the fault is not, can not be ours. The genie is out of the bottle and we will not sit down, shut up, and toe the party line any more.
Skat,
Given that I knew Arnold was a fraud (I gave $$$ to McClintock), I advised my Republican friends to either vote for McClintock or Bustamante.
Having Arnold win was the WORST outcome for the California Republican Party. As the state fell into bankruptcy, something McClintock continually warned us about, the Republicans wouldn’t be able to lay the blame at the feet of the Democrats-as we can now do at the Federal level. The Dems own the mess in DC and the Republicans will benefit tremendously by that fact.
But no. If Gray had remained in office, or Cruz had won, the Republicans could have blamed it all on the Dems.
And thus as California sits in it’s own crap the Republicans can’t blame the Democrats in California.
Arnold has been just as bad as Gray, if not worse, w/r/t spending.
Know this; many of us are tired of the media picking the candidates for both parites and arbitrairly labeling the Republican candidate as “conservative” and Democrat candidate as “centrist”, that goes for the GOP establishment as well.
Agreed Al. Right now no decent, pro-American candidate can rise to the top in the Republican Party.
The media is right now picking Palin as they know she’ll boost their ratings.
She’ll lose horribly mind you, the left-wing Democratic press will destroy her like Couric did in her interviews (even Palin admits she did horribly) and Obama will coast to victory.
Ivan & Al,
Obviously, we aren’t going to change each other’s minds, but the country would have been much worse off if Gore had won.
1) Gore wasn’t a screaming, global warming, nut job when he ran for President – he was considered a “conservative Democrat”. So how much of his legislative agenda do I think he would have gotten through Congress? A lot – he was respected as a moderate.
2) September 11 with Gore as President.
3) Gore would have accomplished his agenda with Supreme Court justice appointments.
4) We wouldn’t have gotten Roberts or Alito.
I certainly don’t agree with a lot of GW’s “accomplishments”. GW was very good on terrorism, the war, pro-life, etc ,most importantly, his Supreme Court choices. GW deserves credit for the things he did right, not just criticism for his failings.
Frustration is understandable! If anyone is telling you to sit down and shut up – don’t listen. Historically the Supreme Court appointments are a real legacy of a president. I’m thankful we got GW’s Roberts and Alito instead of Gore’s justices.
‘
Suggesting that our country would have been better off if Gore had been elected instead of Bush is like saying we would have been better off if the September 11th attack had been repeated three more times.
Anyone who suggests that is F’ing nuts!
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Mike,
It’s the angry-as-hell-I’m-not-going-to-take-it-anymore-hand-sitting conservative movement purist mentality that has the twisted logic of losing elections in order to teach lessons. In that mythology, Carter gave us Reagan. Today, Reagan would not be Reagan enough for some of these idealogues. We’re still paying the price of a Carter presidency, including the fall of the Shah of Iran and the rise of Islamic militancy. Anyone a fan of the Department of Education? Try reversing the decision to create that monstrosity, after the deed’s been done. If Obama-Reid-and-Nancy style healthcare reform gets passed, would it have been worth it just to “teach the GOP a lesson”? Once created, how do you reverse the course? By fantasizing about some uber-conservative once-and-future candidate in a future election?
@Ivan:
Specter drove all of us crazy. RINO he is, but “hyper liberal”? Do you know why he changed parties? Because we successfully drove him out. He knew his chances of winning re-election was grim, so he left (like we wanted him to). How’d that work out for us? During a time when our entire healthcare system is threatened by a progressive-liberal makeover? With Al Franken set to be declared winner of Minnesota, Specter was slated to be the 60th vote for the Democrats. But that would have been great to allow the Democrats’ healthcare “reform” to pass because it would have taught the GOP a lesson and wake Americans up! Who cares if Dems get a filibuster-proof majority? In fact, we should just roll over and allow the Dems to destroy the country. Invite another 9/11 on our soil just so we can declare, “See? That’s what happens when we put Democrats (and RINOs) in power! There, America: Learned your lesson yet?”
Every single Republican in both houses of Congress voted against President Obama’s budget.
Every single Republican except the two Senators from Maine voted against the stimulus package.
Every Republican in the House of Representatives opposes Obamacare.
Yet it’s fashionable to stereotype the GOP as the party of RINO.
Maybe they should just stand aside, instead? Let the Dems in power wreck the country to “teach lessons”?
@Ivan #23:
@JustAl #18 begs to differ:
JustAl,
McCain was for “erasing the borders”? Really?! Was he as far to the right of the issue as we wish our candidates to be? No. Was Bush? No. Was….*gasp* Reagan? Nope. But by some conservative standards, we should just reject ‘em all because they aren’t sufficiently pure on the issue as we demand. Forget the fact that they must appeal to the votes of the American people- not just conservative ideologues. Activists on either side of the aisle are just baffled that more people don’t think like they do. They believe that the way to win elections and push their agenda into policy is by shrinking the party. Brilliant!
JustAl #30:
More hyperventilating hyperbolic anger…
Presidents have a Congress that holds the purse strings, you know. Bush 43 brought down the deficit from 412 billion dollars in 2004 to 162 billion dollars in 2007.
Reagan is responsible for true amnesty for illegals. Does he get a pass? There are complexities to all these policy issues, you know. Or will you be consistent in your criticism and label him a RINO and Dem-lite, as well?
Ivan #27:
It sounds more like some of you are looking for the one who is in 100% agreement with your positions. And if you don’t get the candidate of your choice in the primary, then there are threats of sitting on your hands, withholding GOP contributions, grumblings about “the lesser of two evils”, etc.
If this is the recipe for pushing the country further to the right, then good luck with that.
Wordsmith:
It sounds more like some of you are looking for the one who is in 100% agreement with your positions. And if you don’t get the candidate of your choice in the primary, then there are threats of sitting on your hands, withholding GOP contributions, grumblings about “the lesser of two evils”, etc.
Hey pal, I voted for the McCain/Palin ticket because John showed good sense and selected, what I thought at the time, was a true conservative. Her decision to let her down-syndrome child live was made me make my biggest political donation of my life.
So no, you’re WRONG. McCain wasn’t anywhere near 100% agreement so don’t think you speak for me, or for the grassroots-common man. You don’t.
Guys like you, Mike, that testosterone-challenged poster, etc., are tone-deaf to the anger which is boiling up in this nation. You guys just sit around in your little echo-chamber slapping each other on the back while the real Americans want to puke when we see you ivor-tower types (Mike) say Palin didn’t make a mistake in endorsing McCain for Senate weeks ago.
I’d write more, but it would just go over your head and that of the intellectual runt of the litter Mike.
;->
@Wordsmith: The mistake you make is considering people like “Ivan” to be conservative.
He’s proved he’s nothing more than a reactionary MORON.
As always, I admire your effort to demonstrate considered logic as a counter to such clowns but as usual, the effort was wasted on Ivan.
The question now becomes, how much more of his drivel do we intend to tolerate?
He�s proved he�s nothing more than a reactionary MORON.
As always, I admire your effort to demonstrate considered logic as a counter to such clowns but as usual, the effort was wasted on Ivan.
The question now becomes, how much more of his drivel do we intend to tolerate?
Sad, someone disagrees with you about Palin and now you resort to nothing less than insulting them. Well I guess it’s the best you can do given you can’t refute my comments about the pro-illegal alien fertility goddess you worship.
When you say “tolerate” do you mean kick out of here? That would really show how intellectually bankrupt you are and that floppingaces.com is nothing more than another PALIN4PRESIDENT forum.
You can’t refute my points so you just censor me. That’s really adult of you.
But I’m certain it will come. Dissension cannot be tolerated when it comes to the sycophants of the fertility goddess.
The Liberals socialists will remain in power and be a threat to this country as long as we have so called conservatives wanting to cast their vote in protest of not conservative enough candidates. Those who do not meet their strict definition of what a conservative looks like. Have you forgot how well your protest vote for Ross Perot worked out? How about your non participation for McCain? You voter for a non winner, Ron Paul. How is Obama working out for you? The liberal left never and I mean never protest with their votes. That is why they always rally and come back. Do you not get it? They own the White House, Congress, and the Senate. They are on their way to owing the Supreme court. Wake up.
BB wrote:
The Liberals socialists will remain in power and be a threat to this country as long as we have so called conservatives wanting to cast their vote in protest of not conservative enough candidates.
No, the socialists will continue to remain in power as long as the GOP continues to run and elect people who are hell-bent on furthering the socialist agenda.
I like, Bob, how your first inclination is to blame us, the conservatives, who do show up for each and every election holding our nose and pulling the lever.
The same cannot be said for the milk-toast country-club Republicans who are really the ones who are helping to destroy America.
Ivan
You make my point. The liberals/progressive/socialists/communists vote in a block.
Ivan says “The same cannot be said for the milk-toast (code for white people) country club republicans who are helping to destroy America. Don’t you realize that the liberals will vote for a box of rocks as long as it runs as a democrat? If you vote for the Republican candidate as you say, good for you. The worst Republican is better than the best Liberal Democratic. A third party candidate would kill the conservative movement.
The worst Republican is better than the best Liberal Democratic. A third party candidate would kill the conservative movement.
I disagree, but not in total.
For example, it would have been better for the Cal. Republican GOP if Bustamante had won the recall in 2003 instead of Arnold.
Liberal GOP candidates and like infiltrators, like Arnold was and is. They are a cancer.
The knife in the front is preferable to the knife in the back Bob.
Take care, we agree on most things buddy.
I do believe the message here is… just how many of you are sure this is a “Tea Party party” made up of those who share the same fiscal control ideals? Anyone ever heard of these guys in the year of tea party organizations? Zip on the Internet if they were leaders or organizers.
How about their candidate… same last name as one one of the Exec Committee members? Can you find one thing about this guy on the Internet?
How about a Dr. Sid James?
Another thing… neither Levinson nor James show up on OpenSecrets as political supporters of one candidate or another. Nada, nyet, nary a shadow cast in the politically outspoken world. No political blogs, no opinions.
If this is what my gut tells me, it’s the slickest political scam pulled since Obama’s campaign. Rather like a Hell’s Angels chapter officially calling themselves the Boy Scouts. I’d say @Steve In Tulsa has it right…. very likely a backroom creation by Harry himself.
One item should not be forgotten. The tea party movement is not GOP/DNC it is grassroots take back the country. Locally, Huron County, Ohio, the movement has candidates in both parties for all seats up for election.
DO you think ARNOLD would ever try to become president?
DO you think ARNOLD would ever try to become president?
Constitutionaly ineligible. Thus, irrelevant to the discussion.
Marco Rubio is proving what Reagan has already proven, run as an insurgent Conservative in the Republican Party and you will win by landslides.
Why bother building another third party when it is easier and far more effective to simply run insurgent Conservatives in the Republican Party.
PS: Arnold Schwarzenegger was always Social Liberal which by default negates Fiscal Conservatism.
Californians voted Arnold into office based primary upon his Hollywoodland ‘big-screen Terminator’ illusion.
Face it Californians, you were suckered into voting for Hollywoodland’s ‘Fake Greek Column’ as much as you were suckered into voting for ‘Big-Screen Terminator’.
Perhaps pulling your collective California head out from Hollywoodland Bill Maher’s Comedy Cavity will help clear California’s Collective head for a change.
California voters, take some responsibility for the disaster you created in your state and perhaps you will not continue repeating your same mistakes.
Liberals are hoping for third party Tea candidates. Third parties ensure a Democrat win. Democrats aren’t stupid at election time.
Not trying to enrage the “true conservatives”, but they might as well be lefty liberals since, in reality, the “true conservatives” keep getting lefty liberals elected. Whatever the “true conservatives” goals are, the outcome is always the same – lefty, liberal Democrats in power.
Mata I agree. I’ve been hammering this point on a few comment sections the last few weeks, and even back into the presidential election. There are so many groups and individuals that are using deception for many reasons.
One is the martyr for the cause, and I, perhaps the sign of craziness, but I don’t care, believe that Ron Paul and his CORE supporters were working for the express benefit of the Democrat party. I also believe that John McCain was also working for the express benefit of the Democrat party, and his only purpose was to lose the election as the Republican nominee. I believe that Ashley Todd, the woman who carved a ‘B’ in her face and then fessed up the next day wasn’t a real McCain supporter, and she did what she did, days before the election, in order to influence the election by painting Republicans and McCain supporters as racists. Not only all that, but I believe that it’s all tied together, somehow. I’m not claiming to know any of this based on anything I can link to, it’s just what I perceive.
Now we are living in times of even greater deception, and I will bet my bottom dollar that in the next two elections, the midterms and the 2012 Presidential, there will be running as Republicans and Tea Party candidates both types of infiltrator/deceivers. There will be Tea Party candidates who are real-life Mobys (if you don’t know what a Moby is, search it on Urban Dictionary), whose purpose is to martyr themselves politically in order to paint the Tea Party, conservatives, and anyone else in the Lib Enemies List as crazy racists and worse. The other sort will also be candidates running as Republicans and Tea Partiers, and their purpose will be, seeing that the pendulum is swinging back to the right, to (ENTRYISM) enter the party(ies) and use them in order to advance the same socialism and marxism that they have been advancing through the Dem party.
Every other site I comment at is downright loaded with Mobys, folks you pretty much just know are posting wildly over-the-top racist and inflammitory comments just so they can take screenshots of the “racist” commenters at fillintheblank dot com, and use this as evidence to both sway public opinion and EVEN TO GET THE SITES SHUT DOWN. This is how the left works now. “Deceive” is their number one tactic. And it’s going to get a whole lot worse.
Breitbart’s “big” sites are swarming with mobys, that is, lefties pretending to be insane racist righties. Lefties CONSTANTLY trying to, (while pretending to be righties), prod righties into writing damning things. (e.g. ConservoTX writes: so who thinks we should take this revolution up a step or two huh?)
They do this all day, every day, and there appear to be maybe one or two people that notice, but the site mods don’t even give a hoot that their site is being used like this. It’s like Malkin’s site. No moderation whatsoever. It’d be like me renting a house for people to hang out at, no rules, and never appearing. Never once seen a comment by MM at her own site. So the Moby comments stand, deceiving even the conservatives.
So yeah. The Tea Party is being hijacked. The R party will also be hijacked. And we all know who know the truth that even Christ’s church will be hijacked. All by the same sons of the devil that are doing the rest of the deceiving.
Eyes open, and if you pray, pray for some seriously powerful Discernment.
Note: Ashley Todd was a devoted Paulian just prior to “becoming” a McCain “supporter”.
When control over the internet is stepped up “because of all the rampant racism and worse on the blogs and in their comments”, you can be damn sure that 90% of the “racism” cited was dropped at these sites by a Leftist, FOR THAT END.
Almost any Republican is preferable to Harry Reid, Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and a legion of other Democrats currently infesting the halls of power.
There is a reason why the Democrats fought brutally to keep Ralph Nader off as many ballots as possible.
Not only are conservatives (quite obviously) very naive concerning widespread intentional deception by their fellow Leftist Americans, their fellow Leftist Americans spend an inordinate amount of time studying ways to take advantage of that very naivite. They study psychology, both how to deceive people individually (social engineering, ask a hacker, or a Paulian, or a soulless internet or telephone prankster what that phrase means), and how to deceive entire masses, through Alinskyite Community Organizing (agitation), and the even more nefarious methods of mass hypnotic techniques.
The only defense we have, short of studying all those schools of thought ourselves, is to be armed with the Spirit of God and the discernment of truth he can impart.
Republicans need to get smart and encourage the Green Party and their candidates.
For some reason though they refuse to do so.
They study psychology, both how to deceive people individually (social engineering, ask a hacker, or a Paulian, or a soulless internet or telephone prankster what that phrase means), and how to deceive entire masses, through Alinskyite Community Organizing (agitation), and the even more nefarious methods of mass hypnotic techniques.
You nailed Palin to a “t”. She’ll change her message to suit whichever aduience she is addressing.
When she’s on Glenn Beck’s show she’s a staunch proponent of cracking down on illegals, when she is on Unavision she’s opposed to deportations and is in favor of giving illegals a “pathway” to citizenship.
This is my main argument about this dumb woman. She thinks many of us are so stupid as to not see the little game she’s playing.
Wrong Sarah. I’ve seen your Clintonesque type before, and I hate it.
She represents our worst deamons of our political class. She’ll lie and obfuscate her way into power taking advatange of the fact most people dont’ have the time to investigate her lies and distortions.
You’d like to nail Palin to a “t”, I’m betting.
A big wooden one.
“You nailed Palin to a “t”. She’ll change her message to suit whichever aduience she is addressing.”
This comment reaches the audience living in bizarro land but that’s okay they’re entitled to be stuck-on-stupid.
It is as bizarre as Glenn Beck commenting how an Obama win was so much better for America than a McCain win…at the very least Mr Beck would agree that McCain loves America and was not intent upon engineering utter destruction.
I love Glenn Beck’s enthusiasm, unfortunately his exuberant passion sometimes clouds his perspective which many find repellent and cause for many jokes.
Beck has a tendency to become a little to much ‘Howard Beale’ paranoid.
TV people like Glen Beck and further Billy O’Reilly, Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann all suffer the same affliction, they all allow their over-inflated TV Heads to get too big for reality.
Guest wrote: “……at the very least Mr Beck would agree that McCain loves America and was not intent upon engineering utter destruction.”
Unless, like me, you believe that McCain was intent on losing the election so that Obama would win.
Where and why do people come up with this tripe?! McCain wanted Obama to win? What a ridiculous lie!
As an American, an Arizonan with family serving in the military I am infuriated that people are so blinded by hate towards GW Bush and John McCain. Bush and McCain are fallible human beings. Bush and McCain have both taken positions on illegal immigration, among other issues, that I will never support. Bush and McCain are both true American patriots who have served and continue to serve America with honor and sincerity – even when, in my opinion, they are sincerely wrong. Bush and McCain are both Christians, neither is the devil incarnate. Neither man deserves the vile vitriol constantly thrown at them. McCain ran a terrible campaign, probably out of fear of being labeled a “racist”.
Anyone claiming either Bush or McCain don’t love America doesn’t have a clue what they are talking about. Wild theories and character assassination of Bush and McCain are both harmful and cowardly. At what point can we stop trying to destroy our people and concentrate on defeating the liberal Democrats?
I did not lie.
I do believe that.
Please don’t call me a liar, and we’ll be cool.
I believe that McCain did everything in his power to make sure that he lost, and it was patently obvious to anyone who was paying attention. That was not a lie, it was a statement describing one of my beliefs.
A lie would be “McCain attempted to lose the election and that’s a fact.”
I do concentrate on defeating the Liberal Democrats, skat. If only McCain had ever in his entire career done the same. Instead, he has only ever done what is best for the Democrat party, except in the rarest of cases, which I do give the man credit for. The liberals loved him, feted him, celebrated him, and named him “The Maverick” PRECISELY because what I just said is true. They loved the man for the decades before the election, the LIBERAL MSM loved the man and villified every conservative under the sun. THAT should tell you something.
During the campaign, the man did everything to ensure Obama’s victory short of putting an Obama/Biden sticker on his podium during press conferences and speeches. The only mistake he made, from a wanting-Obama-to-win perspective, was choosing Sarah Palin as his runningmate.
That’s my view, not a statement of fact. Maybe he’s just incompetent. That might explain why he never once, even when prodded, criticized Obama or his uncountable Marxist connections or any other criticism that was anything other than amorphous. Maybe he wasn’t running an effective campaign because subconsciously, he was afraid of (maybe inevitable) race-riots if Obama lost. (I could forgive the man if that were the case, since race-riots are not good, and they would have probably occured, at the urging of Dems and “black leaders” and MSNBC commentators, if McCain had won.)
I just think that if McCain had somehow squeaked out a victory…he would have called for a recount.
I believe that McCain did everything in his power to make sure that he lost, and it was patently obvious to anyone who was paying attention. That was not a lie, it was a statement describing one of my beliefs.
Wow, and people say I’m out in left field!
Yup, crazy as a loon, that’s me.
Killer refutation, I should add.
Marco Rubio is proving what Reagan has already proven, run as an insurgent Conservative in the Republican Party and you will win by landslides.
Agreed. Rubio is an insurgent candidate and he has my support.
Taqiyyotomist,
I have met both Bush and McCain which doesn’t mean I know or understand either man. However, President Bush, in person, is very friendly, sincere, and humble. John McCain is very driven and, yes, John has quite a temper. Both men clearly love America and the military.
Since you are focusing on McCain that’s what I’ll address.
I worked on McCain’s very first political campaign. I’m not happy with many positions John now takes. I was amazed and distressed when John got the Republican Presidential nomination. John was the candidate, I supported him – no brainer when the alternative was Obama.
As an Arizonan, I would love a viable conservative challenger to McCain – I don’t consider JD Hayworth to be viable. I will support the primary winner.
Your opinion isn’t logical based on known McCain facts. A few:
1) McCain’s driving ambition, obsession, has been for many, many years to be president. John’s tenacious personality makes it impossible for him to intentionally throw the election.
2) McCain is an honorable Christian man. I realize people say they are tired of hearing about his
POW experience, but nonetheless it speaks volumes about him. Among other things, John was the chaplain for the POWs. People deride McCain’s POW time as no big deal. Really? How do you think you would stand up under those conditions?
McCain throwing the election would be both dishonorable and non-Christian.
3) McCain has family serving in the military. McCain served under Johnson. Unless, in your opinion, John McCain hates his own family he would never want Obama as commander-in-chief.
My nephew shipped to Iraq last week. What a relief it would be to have a commander-in-chief who honors our military while supporting them whole heartedly. John knows what is at stake for his family also.
In my opinion, you are confusing a poorly run campaign with throwing the election. Republicans are consistently good at one thing, running very poor, losing campaigns.
Please accept my apologies if I insulted you. As you can see, I know about tempers! I truly believe that your theory is completely off base.
Personally, I’m sick and tired of seeing these two men personally attacked by conservatives. If you disagree with them on specific issues, immigration, etc, fine – debate those issues. It is beyond the pale to infer Bush and McCain are anything than patriotic Americans we disagree with on issues.
We continue to destroy our own. The Democrats just leave the demoralizing character attacks to us.
Ivan, Wow! I see you in a whole new light.
2) McCain is an honorable Christian man. I realize people say they are tired of hearing about his
POW experience, but nonetheless it speaks volumes about him. Among other things, John was the chaplain for the POWs. People deride McCain’s POW time as no big deal. Really? How do you think you would stand up under those conditions?
McCain throwing the election would be both dishonorable and non-Christian.
Agreed. I may dislike intensely McCain’s positions on the issues, he is a patriot and has sacrificed more than most for our nation.
That alone made him more qualified to be President than the pot-head Obama.
Skat, thanks. I hear you, and agree, especially with point #3. You are right, it should go completely without saying, that we’d be better off had McCain won the election.
I just couldn’t point to a single event in his campaign when he really tried to win.
Put it this way, if he was trying to lose, how would he have done things differently? I mean, what do you call it when you are running against someone, and every time his name comes up, you praise him, call him a “great man”, someone who would be good for America, and refuse to bring up ANY of, really, the solid, concrete reasons why the man should be passed over in favor of you?
Just seemed like a very weird campaign to me. This feeling, coupled with the press’ evident love for the Maverick, and why they loved him and called him that for years prior to the election (because very nearly every vote for his entire career was with the D’s) leads me to believe that, despite his love for our troops and America, he would do for the Democrats what he has nearly always done for the Democrats: give them what they want.
I just can’t see how anyone could run a campaign against someone and continually praise and refuse to criticize them. It only makes sense on LSD.
(Not that I would know, or remember, anything about that.)
No need for apology. I am not offended, skat – it takes a LOT to offend me, and I sincerely hope I have not offended you, since you obviously believe in the man and his heart. I’m no expert, no psychologist, nothin’ but an armchair analyst, so I lay no claim on infallibility here. I’ll take what you wrote to heart, and think on it.
Anybody can call themselves a Tea Party, unfortunat3ely someone in Nevada tumbled to that fact.
Republicans need to be sure they’re running a real conservative against Reid and point out that the supposed Tea Partiers in this particular case are frauds. I’m a tea party person, and we shouldn’t let our name be tarnished by false prophets this way.
Doug: Anybody can call themselves a Tea Party, unfortunat3ely someone in Nevada tumbled to that fact.
Republicans need to be sure they�re running a real conservative against Reid and point out that the supposed Tea Partiers in this particular case are frauds. I�m a tea party person, and we shouldn�t let our name be tarnished by false prophets this way.
The problem with the TP is that there is no leadership. It’s not a real party and they had better do something about that or problems like you have mentioned will crop up again and again.
Ivan, I was wrong, it seems, and I sincerely apologize for calling you a troll.
It was a bit harsh, in retrospect.
Taq,
No apology needed. My passion for my nation sometimes is interpreted as being a troll.
Oh well, the price I pay for speaking my mind I guess.
@Taqiyyotomist: Don’t be too hasty in apologizing… Just wait, you’ll be proved right.
Hey I can’t really take back an apology, can I? LOL!
ahhhhahaha Ok, Mike, I’ll reserve judgement.
Ivan, you can keep the apology, don’t cash it, and use it next time I unload on ya!
Mike’s America
71 @Taqiyyotomist: Don’t be too hasty in apologizing… Just wait, you’ll be proved right.
Tell you what, you don’t care for me and I dont’ care for you.
In the interest of harmony on this board what do you say we just stear clear from each other?
Deal?
With all due respect, screw harmony.
If someone needs responding to, it’s gotta be done.
Besides, it’s Mike’s domain.
I checked again. No Ivan on the list of proprietors.
Ivan,
I don’t know whether or not you’re a troll, but it’s hard to tell if you’re on our side or the libs.
No way is your pal Al for conservatives.
Taq,
McCain’s campaign was horrid – no argument there. Part of it, maybe, was fear of being labeled racist. Maybe he was trying to overcome his hot head, angry white guy image. I’m often berating our guys for their campaigns and my husband always thinks they’ve got something up their sleeve. Barring that, he thinks they’re going to come out swinging any second. Unfortunately, he’s always disappointed. We need some better, tougher campaign people!
By the way, what does your Taqiyyotomist stand for? Or is it better not to know?
skat,
Taqiyya + -otomist.
Taqiyya being the Islamic practice of deception for the sake of Dar ul Islam.
-otomist being one who diagnoses and removes something surgically.
Just something I coin’d a few years ago, after 9/11, and after I read “Islam Undressed”.
Skat,
You are absolutely right, I am NOT on your side. The GOP owes us something, not the other way around. You can blame others all day long, but it was your buddies at the top of the GOP who gave us the present administration. Nice handle to, it reminds me to clean the cat’s litter box.
Your problem with me is that I argue for conservative principles while you argue for conseravitve consessions. I argue that by trying to stand for everything the GOP now stands for nothering, you argue that we the people shouldn’t stand up at all. You’ve met Bush and McCain, so go tell your other buddies at the top of the GOP that there is a trouble maker out there who is fed up with the status quo and is calling them out. Go tell them to stand for something. . . or stand aside.
JustAl
Fire for effect buddy, fire for effect.
Ivan,
You sound like maybe an old 13 foxtrot kind of guy. I never served, but my son is a 13F guy.
Skat,
Sorry for the cat litter joke, but it just hit me wrong that a guy who thinks I’m too much of a “purist” also thinks I couldn’t actually be a conservative, it just seems more than a little puritanical.
Regan was a great man, the best president while I’ve been alive, but he was not perfect, and does not deserve unconditional adoration. His amnesty set the stage for all sorts of mayhem today. If the socialists didn’t see 12-14MM potential new votes in the form of the illegals do you really think we would have had the long and expensive fight to keep them from taking over health care? I seem to remember he was in favor of getting rid of the department of education as well, but it’s still there. Newt and the boys promised term limits, didn’t happen.
The point is that no politician is going to deliver over 3/4 of what he claims, so if you cut them slack up front, say accept that you only agree with 3/4 of what they are campaigning on you lose and the only comfort you have is “well at least it wasn’t so n so.”
There is no one “pure” definition of conservative nor one “pure” conservative candidate. Ron Paul has some good ideas but is completely out in left field on defense, Romney is no doubt good fiscally, but it’s tough for me to trust a NE “conservative”. I work with a lot of those, the ones who cede the field on the 2nd amendment, “will hunting is OK but nobody “needs” a 30 rd magazine,” etc. As for Huckabee, personally, I’ll never trust a preacher, end of story. I voted for Palin despite not giving .02 about abortion (McCain just happened to be on the ticket), but that doesn’t mean I think she’s the best in the field. I will hold judgement while waiting for better choices.
So you support who you want, I’ll do the same, but I will never, ever say you don’t have the right to support who you want, nor will I say you “wasted” a vote which is a popular notion amongst the party loyalists.
Regan was a great man, the best president while I’ve been alive, but he was not perfect, and does not deserve unconditional adoration. His amnesty set the stage for all sorts of mayhem today. If the socialists didn’t see 12-14MM potential new votes in the form of the illegals do you really think we would have had the long and expensive fight to keep them from taking over health care? I seem to remember he was in favor of getting rid of the department of education as well, but it’s still there. Newt and the boys promised term limits, didn’t happen.
While I agree, Reagan wasn’t perfect, many people don’t remember the 1985 budget fight (for fiscal year ’86). I can’t rememeber all the details, but Reagan, with Dole in the Senate tried very hard to eliminate government programs-like Amtrak.
He did attempt that year to reduce the size of government by eliminating programs in that Senate Bill.
The liberals blocked his efforts.
Yes, he made a mistake on the ’86 Amnesty bill. No question about it.
Take care Al, your comments are much appreciated by many of us.
if i may you all know your subjects but when the time come to be all for one will get in or will you speak like in the BABLE TOWER?
ilovebeeswarzone
If I read your question correctly, the answer is. . . it depends on who the “one” is.
If your child keeps misbehaving do you keep letting him do it because he’s your child and his behavior is still better than the neighbor’s child?
If your political party keeps slipping further and further to the left do you keep voting for them because they aren’t as far to the left as folks like Van Johnson, a self admitted communist, even though you know they will be further to the left next election, and the next?
The GOP can not count on the tea party votes. . . they will have to earn them.
If the Republican Party doesnt “earn” those votes, then the Democratic Party earns them by the votes lost by the Republican Party.
Until there are enough Conservatives to fill two successful Conservative parties, I’m not going to support the split. It is political suicide and the best thing that has happened to the Obama Administration since its big slide. Hopefully, he doesnt get to enjoy very much of this shortlived and shortsighted fiasco.
JUST AL and FREEDOM NOW i sure hope they say like president BUSH said in a very emotional voice that terrible day I HEAR YOU,bye
ilovebeeswarzone,
I share your hope. When my son and nephew went to Iraq at least they had a commander and chief who saluted the flag and didn’t think victory was an out of date cliche. As they prepare to go to Afghanistan next year I am loathsome of the C&C it will be under.
Here’s to better days my friend,
@JustAl: I haven’t followed this entire discussion, but would ask, would your prefer we let the Dems take even greater control of everything until the GOP is 100% perfect conservative?
@JustAl:
Going by your analogy, what Mike, skat, and I are saying is that your apparent solution is to disown your problem child because you can “create another one who looks just like him”, but without the behavior issues. Essentially, you’re throwing the baby out with the bathwater, rather than just the bathwater.
Wordsmith repeats:
If you demand even more conservative “purity” from the party, what you really need to do is influence voters to become more conservative and embrace the ideology.
If every voting block within the GOP demanded purity on the issues they care most about “or else…”, rather than understand that most people don’t think exactly like them and so can only win elections by forming a coalition of voters who agree on most things if not all things to the umpth degree that they demand…then you can ensure that the liberal coalition of voters under the Democratic Party banner will remain in power. The way to influence policy decisions is by winning elections. Not by losing them. The best way to build the conservative movement is from within one of the two major parties.
Fringies to the left of us…fringies to the right. They need those in the wishy-washy mainstream center as much as the moderates within parties need the movement activists and purists. Until such times as the country is no longer so evenly split.
Wordsmith,
The solution is obviously to correct the behavior, I’m sorry I did not think it necessary to point out the obvious. I often confront the leftists over at the Guardian’s website and am used to them answering the posts they wish I’d written rather than the ones I did. I just didn’t expect that here.
Please point out a single post of mine where I have criticized any incumbent Republican with the except of John open borders McCain.
What you and your comrades seem to object to is my demand that the GOP has to work to earn my vote, and frankly, unless it comes directly from officials of the GOP I find that opinion baffling.
If the tea parties had not happened how can you be so sure the incumbents you mention would have held firm? You skat and Mike seem to want us to simply “trust” the old boy’s network that produced arguably the lest conservative political candidates in the history of the party for the last three elections. If we stop pulling with all of our might from the right which way will the momentum continue to drag the party and the country? Never mind, we just need to “trust” the party.
Mike,
I agree, you haven’t read the entire discussion.
@JustAl:
Now who’s projecting? Maybe I’m mistaken, but I was pretty careful in how I was wording things. In some sense, I addressed your statements, specifically. In others, I addressed a broader issue for the sake of a wider audience that might be out there, listening in. Which is why I tried to use “purists” and “movement activists” rather than you specifically, in a number of my points. I apologize if it appears like I was putting words in your mouth and pigeon-holing you on positions you did not take.
I admit, like Mike, I took a break from reading the comments for a while, and have yet to read about 20 or 30 of the comments. Just skimmed from the end of the conversation, and picked up from there.
FA has been pretty harsh on McCain. But when you resort to hyperbole like “open borders” McCain. I find that to be a distortion, simply because we don’t agree with him on the illegal immigration issue. Where and when did he say he wishes for “open borders”? Where in the campaign did any of the GOP candidates not say they were for tightening border security, stopping illegal immigration, increasing workplace enforcement and resisting “amnesty” for those who enter the country without authorization?
Would promising to throw out 12 to 20 million illegals suit you? Would that be demagoguery? Pragmatism? Realistically doable?
And you haven’t been harsh on the GOP in this thread? How else am I to take when you claim “I haven’t criticized any incumbent Republican” with the exception of McCain? When you enter the post with comment #18:
Sounds like GOP-bashing to me. And being in the minority status, like you seem to want to put them there to “teach them a lesson”, I repeat:
What else do you want them to do? Sounds like they’re listening, to me.
Nope. I don’t object to it at all. Mike and the rest here have been as critical as you on spending, etc. But what some of us get and others do not is this: The purpose of primaries (“teaching lessons”). The purpose of general: Winning elections.
Al and Ivan,
Al said:
If Gore being elected had awakened the conservative base as Obama’s did, then yes, we would have been better off.
I truly can’t believe that any American would wish Al Gore on this country on September 11th and the years folllowing. Would we have a country to “take back”?
Is it impossible for you to understand how important Supreme Court Justice appointments are in actually taking back the country?
Al said:
I am persoanally grateful the BHO beat McCain, at least we don’t have a RINO trying to erase the borders as POTUS
I truly can’t believe an American with a son and nephew headed back to Afghanistan could be “grateful the BHO beat McCain”. As I stated previously, I want the best commander in chief for all our military, but even more so with my nephew now in Iraq. I wouldn’t wish Obama on any of our military or their families. They have a hard enough job keeping alive as their families deal with the stress. But then you should know that, right?
I don’t care if you are a right, right wing conservative, a moderate, a liberal, a bircher – whatever! I am an American first, as I’m sure you also consider yourself, and I refuse to willingly give power to people like Gore and Obama just to “teach a lesson”. The more often libs win the more entrenched left-wing, socialist policies become in America and in American law. The more libs win, the more difficult it becomes even to recover the ground lost to liberal’s policies during their tenure.
As I’ve said – how is all that lesson teaching working out for the country?
I don’t know what you consider yourself and frankly, I don’t care. You can talk all you want – I have no power to shut you up. Flat out, your punishing and teaching lessons plan stinks. Militarily, professionally, financially, athletically, politically, personally – no one would ever, ever buy the notion that you win by losing. You never win by sabatoging your own team. Was Peyton Manning intentionally missing his receivers to “teach them a lesson” so they straighten up, play right and the Colts would roar back to an amazing Super Bowl comeback? Or did Peyton try to encourage them, maybe chew them out, but work with what he had?
You never win by losing!
As I said I’ll never covince you or vice versa. So I’m letting it go.
Taq – interesting about your tag.
skat
“I truly can’t believe an American with a son and nephew headed back to Afghanistan could be “grateful the BHO beat McCain”. As I stated previously, I want the best commander in chief for all our military, but even more so with my nephew now in Iraq. I wouldn’t wish Obama on any of our military or their families. They have a hard enough job keeping alive as their families deal with the stress. But then you should know that, right?”
I do know about it, so far our family has sweated out 5 tours of duty in Iraq. But my son and nephew, and the other nephew who has left the service do what they do for the good of the country, not the other way around. Therefore I vote for what I think is best for my country, not what is best for them as individuals, and they understand that. John McCain did everything in his power to open the borders and give away the country while these guys were off fighting for it.
As I have repeatedly tried to point out in this discussion, it is the GOP by failure to provide a worthy candidate who got BHO elected, you are trying to shoot the messenger here. There is nothing in McCain’s record prior to the election that indicated his administration would be that different to BHO, stimulus package? check, amnesty for the illegals? check, global warming a real danger? check, more government involvement in health care? check. These are FAILED POLICIES, would you really rather have them owned by the GOP?????
Bush’s promise of “more drugs for the old folks” is helping to bankrupt our country, how different is that to what Al Bore wanted to do? Bush said he believed in Global Warming, said he needed to “sacrifice free market principles to save them.”
I frankly don’t care if your a liberal, a paid GOP party official (or both), or a cross dresser, the only thing keeping the GOP from following the Democrats into socialism faster are those of us who openly oppose it.
Wordsmith,
“Would promising to throw out 12 to 20 million illegals suit you?”
Only if they actually do it.
“Would that be demagoguery? Pragmatism?
It would be enforcing the law and performing the very first responsibility of the federal government established in the Constitution.
“Realistically doable?”
Yes, after the first million or so the rest would flee, imprison the employers who make it possible and the rest would flee, deny free health care and they would flee.
Or we could just trust the good ol’ boys to do what’s best for us peons.
I will close this exercise in futility by repeating what I said in the beginning. If the GOP doesn’t want to lose elections because of a third party like the tea party they can prevent it by running more conservative candidates. I don’t know if it’s the self evident truth of that statement or the implications of it for personal careers of GOP party officials that some posters find so frightening. . . in the end I don’t care.
Adieu
Al,
Logically, if you are against McCain’s stance on illegal immigration, which we both are, it makes absolutely no sense to support Obama who is to the left of McCain on illegal immigration.
I appreciate your sincerity. I just don’t believe the methods you advocate will ever result in anything but more liberal power, policies, etc.
hey all of you go to the afghanistan new rules of war you wont beleive what is going on right now please
it’s NANNY NATO rules of engagment go read all
@ilovebeeswarzone: I heard that. They can’t shoot a terrorist who puts down his weapon and walks away after he’s cornered.
What kind of idiots are running this war? Oh, never mind…
This is good news for Senator Reid, good news for Nevada, good news for the USA, and good news for progressive people the world over.
Considering that less than 20% of the American people claim to be Republicans, and that only a handful claim to be teabaggers, it doesn’t seem that this rightwing movement is much of a threat.
@Keith A. Grimes: Compare the percentage of Americans who claim to be “progressive” to the percentage who claim to be conservative then get back to me.
I suppose you thought Martha Coakley was a shoe in too?
I have a mental concept of how the tea party can be visualized. The political world is like a huge body of water like a bay. And on that bay are many sailboat races going at the same time but not necessarily against each other IE, they race in their own class of boats. This corresponds to the different types of political races, senate or house, in each state. Every boat has a captain and a crew that make up it’s effort to win. Off in the distance is a big wind that is very focused and acts like a cat’s paw or wind that is very narrow in size and does not blow very hard or for very long. This wind is the Tea Party. It can come in behind a good boat with a good captain and crew and make the difference between winning and losing because it only helps certain boats. But it cannot make a lousy boat with a lousy crew or captain win their race. If we think of our membership as part of this big wind then we won’t be getting into the boat business or the captain/crew business either. I strongly think that we should help those that offer us what we are looking for but it should not be the Tea Party that fields the candidates. On that note can someone brighter than me explain how Steele met with the Tea Party leaders today. Who or when did we elect leaders? How can they represent us when we did not vote them into power? Whomever these “Leaders” are they are starting to act an awfully lot like the critters in DC now. They neither listen to or represent us. I’m waiting to find out what my “Leaders” agreed to.
JustAl #82 – I think you meant Van Jones, NOT Van Johnson……….
Madalyn
Mike: Liberal/Progressive/Democrats have formed the majority of our representatives in American government on a federal level and in most of our largest states for generations. Most Americans believe in and support liberal/progressive policies on a mass scale…i.e. social security, public schools, safety net spending of all types, reproductive choice, gun control, progressive taxation, civil rights, equal rights for women, etc. Conservative policies, i.e. privatization of social security, de-funding public schools, anti-civil rights and gender equality, etc., on the other hand, have long been out of favor in America. And polls show that the vast majority of Americans favor either a single payer health insurance plan in the USA, or a robust public option. So, I think that the majority of Americans, regardless of how they label themselves, support progressive/liberal policies. Don’t you?
In any case, Senator Reid WILL be re-elected, President Obama WILL be re-elected, and the so-called Tea Party will always be at the margins of mainstream political thought in this country. While Republicans may have some off-year election gains this year, Republicans will NEVER have 60 votes in the Senate. Neither Palin nor any other teabagger-type will ever be elected president of the USA. I’d be surprised if the number of people calling themselves Republicans ever reaches 20% again. And, I’d be even more surprised if anyone claiming allegiance to any Tea Party is ever elected to national office in the USA.
On the other hand, President Obama is not the last Democratic president you’ll ever see, Democrats will probably be the majority in the Congress for the majority of this century just like they were the majority of the last century, etc.
Most Americans simply love their country and their government far more than do the teabaggers.
@Keith A. Grimes: Do you really believe the majority of Americans support a progressive agenda?
If so, put down the crack pipe before commenting again.
The only way Harry Reid will win is if the conservative/tea party movement splits.
And frankly, when you say “Most Americans simply love their country and their government far more than do the teabaggers ” you just expose yourself as another of the America haters we are going to defeat. We don’t need that kind of crap here.
Maybe we should ask which “country” you love? Venezuela?
@Inspectorudy: Greta Van Susteren had an interview with Tea Partiers who met with Steele today. They don’t claim to lead the Tea Parties, but do represent people from their various Tea Party groups.
But back to Nevada for a moment. Another of the businesses run by this new group is a strip club:
http://www.ibaddabing.com/index.php
Isn’t this kind of tawdry business usually the realm of slimeball Dems?
Mike: Yes, I do believe that the majority of Americans support a liberal agenda. Once you’ve gotten rid of social security, medicare, public schools, gun control, open borders, civil rights laws, voting rights laws, reproductive choice, etc., please get back to me.
I don’t smoke crack, but I do belong to the oldest and largest political party in the USA. I guess that qualifies me to state an opinion.
Don’t count Senator Reid out. His Republican opposition is pretty weak and divided, our Republican governor in Nevada (Gibbons) has a favorability rating of something like 15%, our Republican Senator (Engisn) is an absolute joke, and our State Legislature and largest county government is dominated by Democrats.
Love of country entails far more than waving flags and racist signs. Besides, like President Chavez of Venezuela, you seem to want to silence those who disagree with you.
Question: Wouldn’t a person who loves freedom support the freedom for a person to operate a “strip club?” Or, do you support a government crack-down of strip clubs in America?
All the folks who sat out elections in 2006 and 2008 to teach the GOP a lesson. . .how’s all that hope n change thing working for you?
So by re-electing Harry Reid — you will prove your point? At what cost to Nevada and our country? No wonder Nobama is going there this week to campaign for Reid — those Marxists must be popping champaign corks with opposition seemingly split!
@Keith A. Grimes: a “victim” of typical public education under the likes of Ayers…..
Tell me, Keith Grimes of the “oldest and largest political party” in the nation. Is today’s Democrat party the party of the anti-Hamiltonians? Are they even the party of JFK??
A rose by any other name.
But I tell you what… you continue to rest easy in your notion that “…it doesn’t seem that this rightwing movement is much of a threat.” I love sneaking up on the unsuspecting.
@Keith A. Grimes: Straw men are your specialty I see.
But really… the majority of Americans support a liberal agenda?
How high are you?
Have you seen the polls on Obama’s health care?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html#polls
INRE the source of this new “Tea Party”… a name not copyrighted by a grassroots movement…
Here’s the ugly reality….
The PaulBots already have the Libertarian Party. They don’t need another party competing against that pipedream.
Politically, there’s only one person to gain from an “official” third party, playing off a popular grass roots movement. That’s a desperate Harry Reid.
The site you referenced has added nothing save to check the local CCB for complaints. Nice they figured he was a contractor, mind you (live in Nevada and have inside knowledge?). But whoop de doo…. What does that mean? Nothing.
The “bush lied” screams liberal or progressive. The 911 truthers? That one goes hard left and less hard right. Can you say the name of Obama’s bud and appointee, Van Jones? Yeah… he’s a real rightwinger….
Gee… he’s out of a job… lives in Oakland, CA. Wonder if he has a new idea for a money making biz in NV? All of which may explain Prozac Keith’s complacence INRE Reid’s election status. You know anything Keith? Or just a dumb bunny pass-the-info type? Hitting real close to home and your personal back yard, don’t you think?
I’m seeing hard left roots here as the common ground… not Paulbots fighting their own libertarian movement (where most come from…)
Just one girl’s opine.
Keith, do you know what projection is? Look it up because you are staggeringly guilty of it. As you are just another mentally ill lefty, I won’t waste more time on you.
The only poll that counts is the one take on election day.
I keep seeing all these polls that support conservative principles. One I’ve been hearing about is how “Americans oppose abortion or Roe v. Wade by 60%…” or last week one came out saying how Americans were “Opposed to big government…”.
But the problem is that usually on election day they vote for bigger government and for infanticide.
So let’s stick to the reality of election results shall we?
wow you guys need to make up your mind. If you want to embrace the tea party movement the ron paul agenda comes with it. your not going to be able to hijack it into something else and if thats what your are trying to do… find a new movement.
You’re missing the point, playwithfire…. this is neither the tea party grassroots movement, nor the PaulBots. The unofficial grassroots movement has no desire to start a party. The PaulBots wouldn’t abandon the libertarians and their more advanced inroads to start another party.
Only one person benefits from a NV 3rd party… Reid. Note self-confessed progressive commenter, Keith A. Grime’s celebration. This is, after all, his back yard. Does that tell you anything?
Consider that every entity they put on the officers and exec committee list are total unknowns to any involved in the NV tea party rallies. Tell you a bit more? How about that many recognize Barry Levinson as a Dem lawyer. Hummm… real head scratcher… Truther roots? Pure Van Jones.
But I’d say the genuine fiscal revolters that make up the heart of the grassroots movement already see thru this charade. They’re pretty aware of who their movers and shakers are. And their internet communications internally should slam this door shut fast.
In the long run, it will turn out to be just another business name/SOS filing by a bunch of people who pretty much make their living filing business licences. Levinson has 158 business entities, of a variety of business, in various active to defunct statuses alone. Wonder what paralegal service he uses? ahem….
Speaking of “Paulbots”, Mata….
some of my favorite coinages:
“Ronulans”
“Paul Pots”
“Ron Paul Reverists”
and
“Paul Bearers”
I think there were more we were using at FA in 2008….oh, what fun times!
AmericanVoter,
But boy, we’re really, really goin’ teach them this time! Just you wait! You’ll see! Brilliant plan, we’re going to defeat every Republican so America can see how bad the liberals are. Then in about – what did Glenn Beck say – 100 years we’ll take back the country and straighten every thing out. That’ll teach ‘em!
If you can’t see how diabolically clever this is, you must be really dumb – just like me. Get a clue! The Obama stuff is working out great – after all he’s taking America down into the pits, isn’t he? Besides, he’s SO strong on protecting our borders and getting rid of illegals, who cares about defense, terrorism, the economy or health care? If we can only get Obama elected for a second term, we’ll have the liberals running scared.
MataHarley: To begin with, there is no Democrat party. But, to answer your question…unlike Republicans and Teabaggers, Progressives don’t live in the 18th Century, or even in the 20th Century. As for the threat that the extreme right might someday take power in the USA…dream on…it just isn’t going to happen.
Mike: Speaking of strawman, your continued references to my drug use (of which you know absolutely nothing) is the ultimate strawman.
Left unsaid in your “statistics” about opposition to health insurance reform is the idea that a huge percentage of people of people in opposition to the present plan oppose the present plan because it doesn’t contain a public option…or better yet, single payer insurance.
Hard right…I’m not sure I get your attack. But, I do find it pretty typical that the extreme right wing finds it non-productive to engage in dialog with those who might disagree. This explains, in part, why the extreme right is forever destined to be in the extreme minority.
Ivan: Can you direct me to one of those polls that shows that 60% of Americans favors repeal of Roe v. Wade?
@Keith A. Grimes: There you go with the “Tea baggers” again.
Perhaps we ought to come up with a sexual epithet to describe you and your progressive ilk.
Obviously you don’t live in the real world but some socialist bubble where your fantasies come to life.
And oh yea, the opinion polls which show such low support for the Dems health care plan are because it lacks a public option? You’re smoking something all right.
@skat: You nailed it. The problem with letting the Dems have even more control is that they permit an invasion of illegals given voting rights, overturning laws prohibiting felons from voting and a generation of ACORN subsidies from the Federal govt. there would never be another free election.
But at least the purists could still do what they do best: complain. Actually, that’s about all any of them have EVER done.
@Mike’s America:
In one sentence he goes from being wounded that Mata would use Democrat without the ick… to using a vile reference when bringing up the Tea Party movement, repeat, all within one sentence. Leaves me to believe he would be reduced to tears should anyone use a vile sexual term when referencing the democrats.
Just read an article the other day about the whining dems and their snit about that and them having no qualms about using the other term and presto! this one shows up to prove the point.
BTW Keith W. Grimes, I used to be a democrat, probably a lot longer than you. It was democrat then and as far as I’m concerned, democrat now.
I think the rest of the brighter FA gang got my “Democrat Party” nuance, Keith A. Grimes… even if it slid over your head. You wander in with disrespect and insinuations of racism, and you expect respect in return?
Altho you are no Democrat. You are a progressive. Progressives don’t have a party, unless you wish to switch to the CPUSA. You have just temporarily seized the reins of the what used to be a party of JFK. I do believe your own card carrying peers are a bit miffed….
There is no “Teabaggers” party either… even with your bud, Levinson’s latest filing. Revelation….
As I said, I’m quite content for you to rest easy about we evil “right wingers” and tea party fiscal types. Don’t you fret at all….. heh
Mike: Ilk? When I see people with multiple tea bags on their hats, etc., I think of teabaggers. What do you think of? (For me, its not sexual. Nothing about teabagging seems even remotely erotic to me.)
By the way, I find it amusing that the original tea party revolt was all about opposition to big corporations, namely the Dutch East India Company. Today’s teabaggers seem to favor corporate statism (Facism). What gives?
Re: Our health insurance system: The vast majority of Americans favor either a single payer system, or a public option. Why don’t you? You like being a slave to the whims of Corporate America.
Mike: BTW Keith W. Grimes, I used to be a democrat, probably a lot longer than you. It was democrat then and as far as I’m concerned, democrat now.
I notice that many, if not most, Teabaggers seem to be old…mostly on Medicare as far as I can tell. I’m always amused when I see oldsters holding signs stating, “Government, keep your hands off my health care.” Are you on Medicare? Or, true to your anti-government rants, do you reject Medicare in favor of private health insurance?
MataHarley, the term Democrat Party is not something you came up with. But, it is a term so grammatically incorrect that it grates on every educated persons nerves. It doesn’t hurt the Democrats, only the person uttering the term.
I’d guess that the Democratic Party is about 75% progressive, and the remainder are somewhat moderate, including the DLC types. Certainly you didn’t rate Clinton as a “conservative,” did you? Anyway, the majority of the House is liberal, there are about 40 liberals in the US Senate, the president is a liberal, and there are four liberals on the Supreme Court. I guess we aren’t doing too badly.
JFK wasn’t as liberal as I’d like a president to be, but he was no Nixon/Reagan/Bush either…and for that the country can be grateful.
Your claims notwithstanding, there seems to be a Tea Party Party in Nevada. Personally, anything that divides and disrupts the Conservative Movement is fine by me.
Reading many of the signs shown at Tea Party rallies, watching Fox News, etc., how could anyone come to any other conclusion other than the fact that many racists support the Tea Party? Besides, most, if not all, opposition to civil rights comes from the Right. Correct?
Question: Why do so many in the Tea Party movement seem to protest in favor of corporatists earning many tens of millions of dollars a year when those very same corporatists are working overtime to destroy the middle class? I don’t get it and I’d truly like to understand.
Missy, I’m not wounded. Nor am I whining. I can dish it out…and take it….better than your average teabagger.
I AM eager to beat down Fascism where ever I see it. And, that’s what I believe…the Tea Party movement consists of Fascists and unwitting know-nothings supporting the Fascists. How so many people can be so duped is beyond me.
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Oh my gosh! Sarah Palin totally doesn’t get it! She actually said the tea partiers need to chose between the Republicans and Democrats instead of starting a third party. Is Palin actually a blonde? ‘Cause that is so dumb it would make a great dumb blonde joke. I mean, we have got to help her get her mind right. What is she thinking? Why is she thinking? Illogical lemmings fighting to defeat conservative candidates is what we need. Somebody PLEASE shut Palin up! People might think what she said makes sense.
Remember our motto:
Victory Through Defeat!
Congratulations for s-l-o-w-l-y crossing the intellectual finish line, Keith. Most others picked up on the use of that specifically to needle your PC arse after your disrespectful and rude entry into this forum, casting blanket aspersions of fascism and racism. Didn’t take long reading your stuff to figure out you’d get your pinko panties in a wad over even the simplest water cooler joke. Not much of a quick wit, are you?
You sure do a lot of “guessing”, don’t you? You “guess” the political make up of the every registered Democrat. Heaven knows what you base that on. I suppose you find substantive source material optional as long as the talking point runs a tingle up your leg.
You “guess” that the “majority” want a single payer/public option when the polls clearly show they do NOT want a single payer, and would be okay with a public option as long as it was not the *only* option. Of course, the fly in that ointment is that the legislation is set up to transition to single payer as the only option in under a decade.
The polls also show they answer one way when you use the term single payer (overwhelmingly no), and another way when you use public option. Which means that your party of distractors and word parsers have managed to muddle the truth of the critter by slapping a new name on a turd. Considering that most conservatives and Republicans don’t want any form of health care managed by the 54 some odd new government agencies, that would make those – unable to recognize a renamed turd when they see it – all liberals and progressives. Got yourself a bunch of brain trusts as peers, don’t you?
And BTW, a poll is not “the majority of the nation”. The best you can say about a poll is that it best reflects the 1000 or so opinions of those who deigned to pick up their phone that eve, and answer questions. Those answers are then taken and plastered all over the media in order to herd public opinion. Most don’t take the time, or have the time, to research politics indepth… so they live on political news soundbytes. Those are easy to spot a mile away.
Yes, your bud, Barry Levinson, did register a “Tea Party of Nevada”. With the filing, it becomes official. He is not, however, been any part of a tea party movement according to the movers and shakers in your state. He stole a movement’s name because he could legally do so. I don’t suspect he can steal the election by the same subterfuge.
And I’m still wondering how many six degrees of separation there is between you and some of this supposed “Tea Party of Nevada” group.
INRE corporate America destroying the middle class, I’d say you should have a chat about that with your idol and POTUS. You’ll find his head of state limo parked on Wall Street in front of the Goldman Sachs and AIG buildings. When you’re done chatting him up, head over to your LV SEIU offices and start taking a count on how many businesses are going under because of labor contracts. Then wander into the federal buildings where 37% of all union workers are employed, and tally up how much their pensions and ever increasing salaries are draining the non-union middle class tax payer.
When you’re done, ask him why the War on Toyota is more important than the War on Terror. Toyota happens to employ a lot of people in this nation, and many a pensioner is now losing their shirts because the WH decided to wage a public war against an auto manufacturer within our borders, and shamelessly promote GM as the savior… like a cheap ambulance chaser (ahem, Barry Levinson, your bud)
You sure do a lot of lip service… maybe you should do more reading.
Speaking of fascism… something you demonstrate well with your anti-corporate commentary at every turn… I find that a fascinating diatribe considering your business includes setting up and managing tax shelters for out of state corporations. Doesn’t that put you in a position of facilitating a legal corporate tax evasion that goes contrary to your social justice base belief? Or does your bank account comfort you in the wee hours of the morning?
You have no room to point fingers at any individual here, Keith A. Grimes. Just like in your party, conservatives, libertarians and Republicans are a mixture of ideology. The bulk of America only fits the extremes in your imagination. And your personal insults hurled here only warrant a verbal sniper shot, aimed squarely at the middle of the L in your forehead.
So now we are nothing but uneducated fascists?
God that Grimy really does live in a fantasy world!
And as far as the Tea Partiers favoring “corporate statism” just WHO is it that is looking the other way while Wall Street firms who got bailed out by the taxpayers are giving more huge bonuses? Clearly, as educated as you present yourself to be you know the answer to that as well as the answer as to which candidate for President raked in the largest share of contributions from Wall Street firms. THERE is your fascism fool!
P.S. For your info, I was never a Democrat. Obviously your education didn’t prepare you to read, let alone comprehend.
What a shame Aye is on his ski trip. He always likes to play with moonbat trolls like Grimy.
Mike, Keith’s remark, tho misaddressed to you, was in response to Missy, as well as his moldy cheese bait to her about Medicare. I guess reading isn’t much of a character trait either.
Hey… I’d be out of Medicare the minute they reimbursed me all the cash they’ve absconded since I was 16, plus interest earned during the pre-benefits loan period. Just as long as they also rescinded the Clintonian rule that you are mandated to enroll in Medicare at 65, or lose your SS retirement benefits.
Uh, pardon me, but I’m not aware of any such rule that results in the loss of Social Security retirement benefits if a person refuses Medicare coverage.
Part A coverage is automatic, but there’s no premium and no one makes you use it. I suppose you could burn the card and mail the ashes back to the Social Security office to make a symbolic point. Premium Part B is optional. You can refuse it if you don’t want it and avoid premium deductions or payments. You can cancel it if you already have it. In either case, there’s a penalty if you do so and change your mind later, however: higher monthly premiums.
Well, Greg… you are “aware” now…
Posted on this back on Aug 3rd, 2009…Seniors & Boomers healthcare “choice”… enroll in Medicare, or lose your Social Security retirement checks
Hall vs Sebelius, made up of several men wanting to opt out of Medicare for preferred private policies, but not willing to give up their retirement benefits taken from them all their working lives.
Read it and weep… absurd when you consider that if only 1% of the wealthy Medicare age American’s opted out, it would save the system $1.5 bil a year immediately… without a tax increase or any burden on others.
Let’s fill you in a bit more, Greg. INRE your comment:
You most certainly may have a private policy Part B… it’s offered and all is still run thru Medicare admin. However all Medicare coverage takes primary position. So if you have a lesser desirable treatment for an ailment that Medicare covers, but you prefer another treatment not covered by Medicare, your private insurance denies the coverage because there is treatment available via Medicare.
That’s the reason so many would prefer to opt out and have a private plan. For others, they don’t know what they are missing because if they only have Medicare, doctors do not tell them about treatments that Medicare doesn’t cover. Ignorance is bliss, as they see it.
As a “paulbot” as you call us, I have been the leader of possibly the most successful Tea Party group in the nation. I have been flown across the United States to speak at Tea Party events. The Tea Party groups are very influenced by the Ron Paul r3VOLution.
If you live in California and want to enjoy a fantasic event, I invite you to attend our Central Valley Tax Time Tea Party on April 10th. It will be held in Fresno at our AAA baseball stadium, get there early, it only holds 12,000, about average attendance for out 15th and July 4th events last year.
We also held what we called Tea Party Boot Camp in October of 2009, over 550 paid to attend, Tom McClintock was our keynote speaker. Don’t be so fast to dismiss the “paulbots” as we are some of the people doing the “heavy lifting” within the Tea Party movement.
Don’t fall for the divide and conquer tactics that have got us here in the first place…..
MataHarley: Wow! Thanks for the thoughtful and lengthy response.
I am not PC. I am not “needled.” I understood why you used the term “Democrat Party” just as soon as you did so. I don’t think I’m rude or disrespectful…at least no more so than you or any other poster here. I do appreciate that I’ve been allowed to post here…I don’t personally know any teabaggers, and can’t see myself in a position to meet any in person…so this forum might be a good way for me to learn what makes you guys tick. Generally speaking, however, when I make a point, the response is something like: “you are on drugs.” That seems to be a pretty standard response when a rightwinger can’t answer a point, or respond to an inquiry.
My estimates (guesses) are based a little on common sense, more on experience, and a great deal on reading.
Here are some polls on what the majority prefers on health insurance reform:
73% BELIEVE OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS IN CRISIS OR HAS “MAJOR PROBLEMS.” ::
Gallup Poll. Nov. 11-14, 2007. N=1,014 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults).
http://www.pollingreport.com/health3.htm
64% BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD PROVIDE NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR ALL AMERICANS, EVEN IF IT WOULD RAISE TAXES. ::
CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. May 4-6, 2007. N=1,028 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.
http://www.pollingreport.com/health3.htm
55% FAVOR ONE HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAM COVERING ALL AMERICANS, ADMINISTERED BY THE GOVERNMENT, AND PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS ::
CBS News Poll. Sept. 14-16, 2007. N=706 adults nationwide. MoE ± 4 (for all adults).
http://www.pollingreport.com/health3.htm
69% BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD MAKE IT EASIER TO BUY PRESCRIPTION DRUGS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES. ::
Associated Press-AOL News Poll conducted by Ipsos Public Affairs. Dec. 19-21, 2006. N=1,004 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.1.
http://www.pollingreport.com/health3.htm
These are a little old, but I’ll try to get you some more recent polling information latter. You should know that since single-payer and public option are off the table at the moment, it is difficult to get polling information on these subject.
BTW, I don’t understand your claim that the terms single payer and public option are similar (turds, I think you called them). They are not. Single payer means that the gov’t foots the entire bill without competition. Public Option means that the gov’t competes with private insurance. Too completely different concepts. Public Option was meant to be a compromise with the Republicans…did’t work, of course.
Why do you think that Barry Levinson is my “bud?” He is not. I don’t know him or any of the other teabaggers who started their Tea Party Party here in Nevada. I’m generally not in the business of defending rightwingers, and I don’t pal around with them. I do believe that a third party effort by the Tea Party Party will help Senator Reid a little (very little since the Tea Party Party is only likely to secure a few dozen votes in the upcoming Senate race involving Senator Reid).
I agree with you on one thing…most politicians seem to be hell bent on destroying the middle class…but, none quicker than the teabaggers.
The War on Terror doesn’t impress me as much of a war. I think it is mostly an excuse for the military/industrial complex to make money. Very few Americans die at the hands of terrorists. Many more die in Toyota car crashes, I’m sure (another estimate). In fact, we Americans kill each other at a far more efficient rate than do any terrorists. I’m for decreasing military spending at the rate of at least 75% per year (leaving us as the biggest military spender on the planet, by far), and treating all “terrorists” as the criminals they are. Unfortunately, President Obama seems more in tune with the rightwing when it comes to military spending, wars, etc.
Lip Service? Reading? Why the slam against someone you don’t even know?
I’m not against corporations. I am against corporations running the gov’t. Corporate statism is Fascism. I’m against that too.
My business does not include setting up and managing tax shelters for out of state corporations. Where did you get that idea? (I’m glad you noticed that I post under my real name…something teabaggers are, apparently, not willing to do.)
Personal insults seems to be you specialty. I’m not aware that I’ve slung any around. If I have, please point them out and I’ll correct them immediately.
Mike, you are a little over the top…even for me. State something substantial, and I’ll try to respond. Otherwise, your posts seem to be better suited to a Jr. High School playground.
Why is it that people on Medicare oppose federal benefits, but accept them? Why are these people shilling for people (companies) that wouldn’t even give them the time of day?
Well Keith, many on Medicare do like their coverage… before the upcoming Obama slash and benefit burn, that is. Others don’t because they research their ailments and find there are more than a couple ways to skin a cat, but Medicare doesn’t offer that option.
As for why they accept them? Because we’ve been paying for them all our bloody working lives. To simply walk away and accept all that cash paid up front for benefits you’ve never received is unconcionable.Given the option to recoup your cash and walk away with a private coveage, some will.. some won’t. Depends on their health, and how much they know about treatment coverage.
The “shilling” difference is the base belief that the private market is superior to government management of every aspect of our lives. When you don’t like the way a private insurer handles your benefits, you shop for another. With government care, you’re locked into what the bozos in Congress decide you may have.
duh…
@Keith A. Grimes said: “MataHarley: Wow! Thanks for the thoughtful and lengthy response. “
Mata has a much higher tolerance for fools than I do Grimy. You are clearly a elitist moonbat troll who hates the common people.
You are so off base that you don’t warrant a more considered response from me.
You’re not worth it. I invest my time reaching the masses, not the morons.
Go teabag yourself!
Indeed, Medicare is the primary carrier for any covered service, if you’ve got Medicare.
Do the private insurance companies object to that? I rather doubt it, since it allows them to offload much of the increasing risk inherent with an aging policy holder onto the taxpayers. If you took Medicare out of the equation as the primary insurer, private for-profit insurance companies wouldn’t touch aging members of the US population with a ten-foot barge poll. Few Americans 65 and over would have any health insurance at all, because their elevated risk profile would make the cost of private policies astronomical. Assuming anyone would even offer them.
There’s no way free-market competition could lower that risk profile, unless it came up with a magical remedy for old age. Nor can it alter the diminishing odds that an insurance company’s bets on the continuing health of an aging policy holder will continue to pay off. At some point, placing further bets is a guaranteed way to lose lots of money, very quickly.