Should convicted felons be given a second chance? Barack Obama thinks so, and he thinks the tax payers should have to foot the bill. He made his view on this issue more than evident during a town hall meeting in Elyria, Ohio on January 22nd. Here is a excerpt from this Ohio town hall meeting, where a 29 year old felon who has never had a job in his life asks Obama if he will help felons get a job.
Jerome the felon asks Obama:
“I’m 29 years old, and I’ve never had a job in my life. I went to jail when I was younger. It’s like hard to get a job as a felon. Is this — any programs that hire people with felonies like something that — because it’s sad, it’s like — 29 years old, I’m 29.”
Obama Answers Jerome:
“Look, I’m proud of the fact that you’re bringing this up because there are people who’ve made mistakes, particularly when they’re young, and it is in all of our interests to help them redeem themselves and then get on a straight path. Now, I don’t blame employers obviously for being nervous about hiring somebody who has a record. It’s natural if they’ve got a lot of applicants for every single job that that’s a question that they’d have in their minds. On the other hand, I think one of the great things about America is we give people second chances.
And so what we’ve tried to do — and I want to say, this has been a bipartisan effort — when I was in the Senate, working with Sam Brownback; my Vice President, Joe Biden — passing a Second Chance Act that helps to fund programs that help the reintegration of ex-felons.
It’s smart for us to do. You know, sometimes people say, well, that’s just coddling people. No; you reduce the recidivism rate, they pay taxes, it ends up being smart for taxpayers to do.”
Shame on Jerome, if he really wanted a job he could get one. He is playing the victim card. In reality he is only a victim of his own bad decisions. Taxpayers already pay for convicts to be in prison, now Obama wants us to pay to get them a job? Don’t get me wrong, I believe everyone(well, almost everyone) deserves a second chance, but it is not the responsibility of everyone else to provide that second chance.
Now before you start sending me nasty emails saying “you are stupid, and you just don’t understand how hard it is for felons to get a job.” Please allow me to stray from the beaten path for a moment and tell you a bit about my own experience.
I am a convicted felon. Five felonies to be exact. I spent the later part of my teenage years (15-19 years old) as a drug addict. Between ages 18 – 19, I lived out of the back of an Oldsmobile, and skipped around from job to job (i kept getting fired for some odd reason, hmm) to raise money for my heroin habit. I continued this pattern of living until I was finally arrested, charged with 9 felonies, convicted of 5 felonies, and sentenced to 1 year and 2 months in prison. One day, as I was sitting in my cell, I thought to myself, “this isn’t the life I want. I want something better, and I’m going to get.” So I made a plan for what I was going to do when I got out, and I decided to use my time in there wisely by educating myself. I started studying college algebra, then moved on to calculus and finally computer science. I also applied for college while I was in prison, so I could attend as soon as I got out. My release day came, and guess what, I went out and got a job flipping burgers the next day.
I worked the early shift at my new job . Public buses didn’t run that early in the morning(in VA, if you receive a felony conviction you lose your license), so I walked to work, 5 miles, every morning. When my shift was over, I hoped on a bus, and went to the local community college to take a couple of classes. When I got out of class the buses weren’t running so I walked home, 4 miles, every night. This process repeated everyday for 9 months until I finally saved up enough money to pay off all of my court costs, and go through all of the red tape required to get my license back. When I finally got my license and my car back, I went out searching for a new, better job. I found 2 jobs. Who would have thought that a convict could get 2 jobs (Jerome couldn’t seem to find 1 in 29 years). I met a wonderful girl at one of these jobs, and we eventually got hitched! Fast forward 4 years and I am happily married, the proud owner of a brand new home, 6.5 years sober, have a good job, and I am almost done with a bachelors degree in computer science (I pay my own way through school, so I only take as many classes as I can afford).
I told you this story to tell you this. I know it is hard to get a job if you are a felon. I do understand. However, if you are a felon, you are not a victim of society, you are a victim of your actions. It is not the responsibility of tax payers to provide you with a second, it is your responsibility. In the United States there are infinite possibilities for a second chance, but you have to go out and get it. It will not come to you. Don’t let your criminal record hold you back, use it as a lesson in life. If you work hard, pursue your dreams, and strive to be a good citizen, good things will happen. That is the beauty of liberty and freedom, you have every opportunity to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get on the right track in life. How could you not love a country that has allowed a drug addicted, homeless convict to become a sober, homeowner, with a beautiful wife, and lives the American dream everyday. God Bless America!
Crossposted from Liberty and Pride
Thank you so much for that post – I was going to comment, but you laid it out perfectly. I didn’t have an experience like yours, but I know of someone who did – it is better told in first-person.
My brother is a convicted felon. He is slowly putting his life back together and I am proud of him.
At first I was a little dismayed at the title. However, after hearing your logic; I agree. I believe strongly that there should be second and third and fourth etc.. chances. We all need them on one level or another. And in fact, I do believe that the only thing that separates me from someone on death row, is the fact they pulled the trigger. But as you said, it is up to that person to strive for that second chance. To achieve it, and make something happen. You can’t really blame democrats for their response (i.e. obamas response to Jerome), because that is what they want. They want a society of dependence. Dependence is good for business. Ask any socialist.
If people stopped needing government programs, then we wouldn’t need democrats would we? I guess as long as people are looking for a free handout, democrats will be alive and well. The hand that feeds the mouth poison.
Well Said Liam. You can think of this situation between democrats and the people much like an overbearing parent and child. If the parent coddles the child throughout life then they will never grow to be strong, independent adults. It really is a shame that there are so many people in the world that expect the government to take care of them. I suspect you are right, as long as these people are around, democrats will be there ready and willing to give them what they want (in exchange for more power of course)
we need to change our drug laws. too many of our youth have records for smoking pot. smoking pot is like smoking cigarettes or drinking beer when we were young. we have crimilized our countrymen with silly prohibition laws. however, the number of law enforcement, lawyers, prison guards, prisons, etc. that these prohibition laws have created is staggering. if the average person can go to their doctor and get pain killers and depressant drugs at will, what is the difference between the effects of street drugs, think oxycotton (sp?).
the money we spend on the drug war , we could build the wall between mexico, canada and america. we could offer rehabilitation for the very same legal drugs and illegal drugs.
remember, in every population in the world, there will always be a percentage of people that will be hooked on something. example, gambling, pornography, alcohol, drugs, prescription drugs, ect.
i fear that the drug bureaucracy that we have created will take a long time to take down.
Hello Sean: I have to admit that I was surprised by your story, which prompted me to post a comment, in the aggregate you make a valid argument, however I want you to think about those individuals that have made mistakes and have been convicted of a felony and do apply for a job and are turned down… Our first reaction would be ‘to bad, you should not have committed the crime!’ Ok fair enough, now what? The stigma that comes with being an ex-felon is tantamount to sinking or swimming when your trying to turn your life around. I agree the government should not subsidize ex-felons for being ex-felons! What I believe your missing is the true meaning of a second chance, if you pay for your crime by being put in prison then when you are released must you continue to pay for your crime? How long does an ex-felon have to be stigmatized, treated like out casts, what about their families, if you spent 1 year in prison and have a felony you have a criminal record for LIFE…Think about this! Your fortunate to have a website and now a bachelors degree, and a loving wife….Great! So do I, and thank God for that, nevertheless we still are stigmatized and will be for LIFE! Now I’m sure I’m better off then most and yes I have two degrees, in Org. Management and Leadership and yes I work for a multinational organziation based in Europe, and yes I have the two cars and big house but I do carry the stigma that you and I share. Perhaps as the years go by and you get older you will understand how much it hurts to keep a secret for something Dumb you did when you were young! The solution in my opinion is found on the Sentencing Project’s website, look up “A blueprint for change.” I’m happy for you and proud (whether you like it or not) becuase there are so many Americans disenfranchised by the laws in this country, think about those ex-felons that do not want a hand-out but want a fair chance, there’s no fair chance as an ex-felon. I have no sypamthy for sex offenders or child molestors, but what about your friend from school that got into drugs and went to jail for selling drugs or using drugs, think about this… If we work towards sealing criminal records after a certain time period of being on the right path this would help our nation and its people in many ways… I’m done.. Oh by the way I’m Conservative and believe in the constitution of this country, not a liberal knuckle head tree hugger. I bleed RED WHITE and BLUE, by I’m also a Christian and believe in redemption. I believe you have to pay for your mistakes, but there has to be an end game! Good Luck!
For the record, my father spent the majority of his life behind bars.
I do not have a felony, but a misdemeanor.
I feel that people do deserve a second chance. Of course, there are limits. I can’t believe I am saying this, but I actually like… Charles Rangel’s Second Chance Act. It requires no violence, no habitual patterns and community service.
It provides a nice carrot to those who are at a crossroad.
I have had issues getting work over a misdemeanor 15 years ago. I am deeply ashamed of it and can’t really believe I am writing this.
I have given back to my community (definitely more than our VP). I have a beautiful wife. I thought it was going to prevent us from adopting our oldest child. And every time I change jobs, it becomes a major stress point for me.
Lucky for me, my employer only requires that you disclose any past indiscretions. If you are honest, you pass the background check. If you aren’t, you don’t. Pretty simple. But, what I would give to have the slate wiped clean.
I certainly understand your point. I do. I also understand that when we are young we make stupid mistakes and learn from them. Considering that the government is doing everything it can to turn citizens into criminals, it would be nice to have the ability to undo one thing in our past.
In addition to expunging one bad act, if you commit another it shows back up. I wouldn’t even mind if I had to pay all the court costs. Keep it off taxpayers rolls. States offer this ability, why not the Federal government?
Jerry Hammond. He was a long time city councilman in Columbus, Ohio back in the late 70s, early 80s, where I grew up. Very well respected gentleman, was in advertising/p.r. for a utility company or insurance company or something. He used to go to elementary schools and talk with kids about staying out of trouble with the law. He would always talk about how he and some friends burglarized a laundromat in Indiana when he was 18. He went to prison for a year, got out and never looked back.*
Ohio at the time permitted convicted felons to vote. Being able to vote and get involved turned his life around. If you want a sure fire way for felons NOT to get reintegrated into society, make it hard for them to get jobs and make sure they cannot vote for school levies, mayor, etc. See how much commitment people have to society when youthful crimes keep them forever on the outside looking in.
* I would skip over the fact that some dumb GOPer who could never outpoll Hammond, more than 10 years after he got on city council, tried to have him removed from office because he was a convicted felon. The GOPer governor of Indiana pardoned Hammond within a week or two and the idiot insurrection died with laughter all around.
@PacoP: Wow, you sure have given me quite a bit to consider. However, I think my post must have been a bit misleading. My intentions were merely to state that it is not the tax payers responsibility to help you find a job, regardless of how hard it is to find one that hires felons. I do believe, however, that it is unnecessarily difficult in many cases for a felon to find a job. I can’t tell you how many times I have passed up applying for a job because the description says “must be able to pass background screening” or “must be able to obtain a security clearance.” Truly, I think it is ridiculous that if you make a mistake when you are young, you will suffer the consequences of that mistake for the rest of your life. In my post above I was aiming to drive the point across that if you are a felon then you will just have to put in the extra effort to turn your life around, but you can’t really on someone else to do it for you. There are consequences for every action. Should someone choose to commit a felony, he should be ready for the possible ramifications of his actions (however excessive they might be). As felons, we must learn to overcome these obstacles in our lives.
That being said, I would be a proponent of any legislation that would seal criminal records after a specified period (sex offenders not included), as long as a set of guidelines are followed by the offender (no repeat offenses, etc…).
Anyways, great comment Paco. You sound like a good person to me. I wish you all the best in life. God Bless.
@PacoP: I meant “rely” not “really” in the comment above. I should really proofread a little better. Its pretty evident that I was not an English major.
I have to say I like the idea of criminal records being sealed after a certain period of time provided that the person doesn’t get in trouble. A period of like ten years. If you can keep your act clean for ten years, then I think that the past should be wiped clean and the records are sealed.
I think that is more than fair. The people who are habitual criminals can’t keep clean but for those that are sincere about starting over and keeping their act clean, that time will give them an incentive for hope. I believe that once someone does they shouldn’t be penalized but I also beleive that society should also be protected. And I think that this is a fair compromise.
TammyL, Sean, I completely agree. The original purpose of our justice system was to punish people who couldn’t make right on the situation you caused. Way back when, if you were caught stealing, for example, you had to pay restitution. If you couldn’t, you were punished.
The problem with today’s criminal justice system, is there are numerous victimless crimes. The state, it seems, wants to make everyone a criminal from drugs to guns.
I look at it this way, when I was sentenced, the judge basically pointed to me and said “You are one of the few I have seen that can turn their lives around.” When asked about my plea, I had the option of 1 or 2 years probation. I asked for the 2 years and my 200 hours of community service.
I have done far better for myself than I expected (in some ways). I have had no run-ins, minus the regular stream of traffic tickets, over the last 15+ years. If I was going to fall back into my old activities, I would have done so long before now.
So, I say give non-violent offenders a second chance, with the expectation if anything ever happened again, both the new conviction(s) and old conviction would be restored.
It seems only right to give those who have made the change to be productive members get the full opportunities afforded them. Strange that I might suffer for a relatively minor indiscretion as a youngster when someone whose crimes were far more serious gets their record expunged simply because it was a state crime versus federal.
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Historically, felons lost the right to vote. I think that this was a good idea, particularly if we educate the populace to the point that people know it before they become felons. It should serve as some sort of deterrent to know that you will never be able to participate in the democratic process if you commit a felony. With the rampant ignorance that our public educational system produces today, this benefit is largely lost because most young felons did not learn much of anything in school before they became felons.
Amazing post, Sean. Truly inspirational.
I think Sean story is truly amazing. I now only wish there is a way to verity it. The main question I have with him is that I bet he had a decent childhood that was full of love and a good primary education. I know this because he’s has the foundation built in the area of math and science. If he did not have an early foundation of math and science it would have been really difficult for him to obtain a degree in computer science.
When inner city students do not grasp math and science early on in life its like trying to learn a foreign langage to matter how hard they try. It’s very difficult and I now because I speak from experience.
Call me Shawn
thompson.darrin@gmail.com
@Darrin Thompson: Darren, I suppose I could verify the criminal record. It would, however, be rather difficult, if not impossible, to prove my story to you. As for my childhood, it wasn’t horrible, but it certainly was not full of love. My mother was a chronic divorcee (5 marriages) and an alcoholic. I was primarily raised by my “tough-as-nails” grandmother, who did instill some measure of values and discipline in me, and for that I am extremely grateful. Also, you are correct in your assumption that I have an early foundation in math and science. However, this was not pushed upon me from any parental figure. I took an interest in those to subjects at an early age, and I discovered that I was good at them. I pursued a degree in computer science because that is what is was interested in. Certainly I understand that not everyone is good at these subjects, but everyone IS good at something. It is not necessary for a person to be good at math and science in order to be successful. You should pursue the things that you excel at, rather than dwell on those things that you do not do well. Darrin, if someone has not had a good child hood, or a good educational foundation, so what? We can all find area an that we are talented in, it is up to each person to harness his/her talents, and use them to his/her benefit.
Also, I feel I should mention that my current job has nothing to do with my degree. It started as a 9 dollar an hour labor job, and I worked my way up from there.
All these things aside, I think it is important to realize that the American Dream is not to be extremely successful, with a huge house, and a gorgeous. The American Dream is to be happy, to live how you want to live (within the realm of civility, of course), and to be able to be an independent and free member of a civil society. The true beauty of liberty is that you can pursue any career path you want, you can be as successful as you want, and you can live however you want(again, within reason).
Sean
HI
IM A CONVICTED FELON FOR DRUGS. AFTER TWO YEARS OF BEING CLEAN I STILL CANNOT GET HIRED BECAUSE MY BACKGROUND CHECK COMES BACK WITH DRUG CONVICTIONS. I NOW HAVE A DAUGHTER AND WIFE WHO I LOVE WITH ALL MY HEART. I HOPE OBAMA CAN MAKE A PROGRAM FOR CHANGED GOOD MEN LIKE ME. I WAS YOUNG AN DUMB. BUT NOW HAVE GROWN UP. PLEASE HELP.
THANKS
RAY WEIRICK II
MYLEE AN SARA
MUCH LOVE
According to more than two SJA Officers in my group, if the convictions were State and not Federal, you can petition your Governor for clemency and have restored voting rights as well as the rest. It will also give credibility for being hired for jobs that you may seek in the future. Federal convictions have a higher degree of difficulty but for non-violent offenses it is possible to get adjudication relief.
Just my 2 cents worth on that subject.
I know how it feels when doors are closed because of bad choices made at an early age. I was 18 when I was arrested for agg. battery and agg. robbery. In all it was a fight but none the less. I plead guilty to att agg robbery and served 48 months. For about 6 years I have bounced fromm job to job and job interview to job interview. I took inventory of my life and came to the conclusion that alcohol was a big factor to my down falls. So I quit drinking alcohol. I have been sober for 2 years and 4 months. Within that two years I have been moved up in place of employement. I am the father of a beatiful baby girl (motivation). Recieved an associates degree in accounting. I have changed my degree program to human services and management. I will be moving into my new home on April 15 2010 (closing date). To obtain this I had to get ride of one element and that was alcohol the same substance that landed me in prison for four years and on parole for two years. My next move is to save some money for a lawyer to expunge my felony. The best thing for any felon that reads this is to move forward, shake the undesirable habits and work hard. It is not easy, but patience should have been developed while locked up. Think positive and work the system for the good.
Thanks for sharing, Strongbow. Again Sean, thanks for this post – you brought out some really good comments
@RAY W: Ray, strangely enough, I have gotten hundreds of emails ,from convicted felons about this post (the original post on my site, I cross posted it here) asking me for help with getting a job. I am not a job recruiter, so unfortunately I am not an expert on the matter. I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, and ultimately it is your responsibility to mend the situation you find yourself in…..That being said, I do believe in American values, and I believe that American values include assisting our fellow citizens whenever possible. Good citizenship is a cornerstone of a civil society centered around liberty. Since I have gotten so many requests for help, I am thinking of starting up a web site that contains info about companies that hire felons, available jobs, and other services I can find to assist you with getting a job….If anyone would care to help me out with this just leave a comment on this post.
I’ll post the URL of the site is when I get it up and running…it’ll probably be a month or more (free time is very scarce these days)
@Strongbow: Congrats on the sobriety!!! Keep it up, it gets easier with time. I’ve got almost 7 years under my belt, and using doesn’t even cross my mind. You sound like you’ve really got things together. It’s great to see people turn their lives around!!! Keep it up!
@Brother Bob: Thanks Bob, It really is uplifting to know that people really can change their lives for the better.
@PacoP: I loved what you had to say. I have a daughter that is a felon and I’ve been through the whole job thing with her. When she is released she has to live with me because she is broke. I’ve driven her around to look for those jobs and it’s worn both of us out. So out of despondency and the stigma she carries, she ends up with the people who accept her back and ends up re offending and going back. She is also bi polar. Yeah I know it’s used as an excuse for a lot of bad behavior. However she was that way before she ever took a drug. The drug use exacerbated it certainly but didn’t cause it. I was a single working mother, trying to make ends meet so I didn’t catch it like I wish I had of. Now I am a grand mother and raising my grand daughter when I should be retiring and reaping the rewards of having been a viable citizen and tax payer for years. People need that second chance. There are so many felons out there out of work with too much time on their hands and so much negativity. I can tell you that prison does not rehabilitate. It makes you a better , more bitter criminal. So if you think people are getting their just deserts, then don’t complain when you become a victim. We need a better plan. I’m writting my congress people offering my help.
I never had a felony, but my bf does.
Yes a felon can find a job, but the question is how long? My bf only held a job for 1 year before they terminated him because they no longer needed him and he was lucky when he was offered that job. He hasn’t had a job since in 4 years.
With the downfall of the economy and google, it is now harder to get a job without that felony following him. It’s been 10 years for him and he’s 31 without a decent career, education, or anything. Maybe years ago finding a job was a bit easier, I don’t know, but it’s surely difficult now more than ever.
You may have gotten your life turned around, but it may be harder for other felons. I’ve heard 1 successful story out of 90 unemployment stories from other felons. Some people got lucky. Others not.
Well look at the stats…. most convicted felons never get the chance to get back on track… i don’t know about you, but i was convicted at 17 as an adult for a non violent crime… I was in college a year away from my degree in education, but as my senior year camearound i was told i could not complete me degree because the board of education would dismiss and applicant if he or she was convicted as a felon. I came back to my home town bounced around a couple of jobs. I then landed the only job a felon could get in my town and survive. They made railcars. The pay was good but it was a stressful job and too think i was on honor roll and had dreams, now i had a jobs with all the people i grad. with that had not dreams after high school. So it’s not playing a victim card it is a fact. It is really hard for felons to find jobs now that we are in a modern era depression. Who the hell do you think they are going to hire. A felon or a non felon….. no matter which is better suited the job the non felon will get the job 9 times out of 10 if not 10 out of 10. If you are lucky enough to have friends or family that have connections to get you a good job, but those are far and few. What pisses me off the most is i went to school and would have had my degree and teaching by now, but no because of a mistake i did almost 9 years ago and can’t get any job paid thorugh the state or federal government. Any body got any ideas?? email me rmb_103@hotmail.com
@ Ryan B
I’m sure that this will sound harsh to you, but my principal suggestion to you is to recognize that you messed up, and the consequences of that will be with you forever. Now you have to figure out how to make the most of your life in spite of that, but that is up to you. No body owes you anything.
You indicate that you got a good bit of education, that you were close to having a degree. You might look into the possibility of completing that degree at another institution. You should also consider what can you do with the education you have, even if you have no degree. The education itself has value, even without the piece of paper, if you find a creative way to make use of it. You don’t say what are it was in, so there is no way to help you with ideas here.
There is no reason you need to be looking for a job through the state or federal government. Show some initiative and look for work in the private sector. That would mean real work, as opposed to a feather bed job, but it would also mean a chance to make something of yourself.
At this point, it is entirely in your hands. You can feel sorry for yourself, say that life is unfair, that it was “mistake” (rationalization), etc. in which case you will go nowhere but down. You can take a serious inventory of what you have to work with, think hard about how to make the best use of your assets, and go work hard. You have a chance to do well, but you are going to have to work extra hard because of your “mistake” as you like to call it (foul up might be a lot closer to the truth).
I too was convicted of a non violent felony in 99. I served 5 yrs. probation and have had no arrest since. In my state the only way to remove a felony from your records is an expongement. The only way to exponge a felony is by getting a pardon from the governor. Now the governor has pardoned about 120 people in 36yrs. If you do the math thats about 4 people a yr.
The only other way is to change the expongement law. The only way to do that is contact one of your state senators or rep’s and have them write a bill (to change the code) or you can write your own and have them sponsor it. In my state I do have voting rights. I didn’t find that out until recently so I would also do some research on your state laws. Voting on this issue is the only way it will change. I don’t want a check from uncle sam, I just want to be equal.
Go here and you can sign my petition to my state congress and create one for yours. Cheers….
http://www.change.org/petitions/view/west_virginia_felony_second_chance
To Dr D,
My degree was suppose to be for education and my felon was for withholding infomation on a burgarly that i did not commit, but had knowledge of. Funny the minors that were 16 that actually did commit the crime never got a felony they got miser. I didn’t commit the crime just had knowledge and i was 2 weeks past my 17th birthday which was considered an adult and they never offered me a plea because the others were only 16 and gave them pleas. As far as working hard my friend i’ve done my fairshare. You work in a job with weld dust, a job where 5 people got killed on my shift in little over a year. Please my friend any advice would help, but make sure it’s legit not just a personal suggestion.
@Ryan B: Ryan B, I would respond to your first comment, but Dr. D already said everything I would say….I will say this though, I think you are dumbing yourself down a bit. I think what you have to realize is that you can achieve the same success as anyone else, but you may have to work harder to do so. It’s not a matter of whether you can. It’s a matter of, “are you willing to do what you have to do?”
RYAN B: hi, MAKE SURE you get the info, why thoses fellows died and, that will help to secure your own way of doing that hard job, make sure you take the time to always have the right clothing on, and the best shield always a good investment,nothing made in china, and you must be alert on that kind of work, it takes less than a second to get cripple on flying debris; I know because i do stainglass and i used welding to assemble so take care. bye
RYAN B: may SUGGEST learning you degrees on internet, there are some academics you can search for the one you want,you of work time could be worth the time spending, as i feel you are quite young, and it would benefit on the future, that will bring you lots of good feelings more than bad feelings. bye
RYAN B: also there are degrees on academic you can find in the internet,it would be usefull for your future, on your offwork time to learn:you seems to be young and the future is your’s to achieve all kinds of good things; you know, the hardest thing happen when your young, it’s a learning process, but it takes a while,and you find it will be easyer more and more, all kinds of goodys will come your way when it’s du to come, we cannot force it but with positive and hope wanting it to come,it will . bye
OLD TROOPER: i just notice your comment, so full of the right words, as always; bye
Ryan
My brother had a very similar happenstance (but worse), and he petitioned the court to espunge his record. It worked, and he got his on with his life. At worse, you’re right where you are now, at mid-level, your felony can be reduced to a misdemenor, and at best, you’ll have it dropped.
As a side-note, have your eyes checked every year for weld-dust accumulation, which can lead to blindness…My brother in-law came close, but caught it in time. Many eye-doctors over-look the inspection, which involves looking very deep in the lower eyelid, so inform them of what your job entails, and flush your eyes every evening and morning from nose-side to temple-side.
@Ryan B
You will have to look into your state laws.My state law will not expunge a felony without a pardon from the governor.Contact your states governors office and ask them for a Governor clemency application, fill it out and wait. But be aware the governor rarely pardons anyone. If that doesn’t work the law will need changed. Hope this helps.
Sean,
Things are much harder these days for convicts. Practically every job application asks if you’ve even had a misdeamor, let alone felony! I question how you bought a house in four years? Did you have family money? Because nowadays, a felon could just not do it! Quit bragging about yourself! YOU did NOT do it alone, so don’t think others can either!
We have created a facebook group to hopefully one day have criminal records looked at as credit records are looked at. You make a mistake, big, small, whatever, but how long should you have to pay for it? Does an employer need to know you were riding in a stolen car when you were 19 years old 17 years ago? The word theft is ugly in the employment world but you will have that label forever. It doesn’t seem fair and we believe we can change that. Please if you nave a facebook page join the group and tell family and friends as well.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=108&post=414&uid=131733900186001#!/group.php?gid=131733900186001 Sorry. Link didn’t appear in my post. Second Chances for Convicted Felons.
Well, I found this site to be very upsetting because I commend the President for acknowledging the “falling”. I consider convicted felons as the falling because once you get a stain or scar like a felony you are cast out. Cast out of a full life. I personally wear the scar and everytime I fill out an application for a job or an apartment I shutter… and Sean I guess it’s easy to accept your charges because you had chances to avoid your convictions. But for others who may have made one bad decision at one particular time and have to be branded for life is unjust. Your convictions may have changed your life for the good but mine has almost killed me so I guess my conviction is my drug that caused me to hit rock bottom. I don’t want a hand out I went to college and have a B.A. I just want to put a different face the horrible, destructive, identity of a “FELON”.
@ FREEDOM — “just one bad decision at a particular time” was it? Was it really the only bad decision you ever made, or was it the one where you got caught?
If it was truly “just one bad decision” then that would put you in a truly elite group, the exceedingly small group that got caught on the first time. For most felons, getting caught is simply the culmination of a string of lesser bad decisions leading up to the one where they get caught.
In any event, you did get caught and convicted in what we presume was a fair trial. You do not mention being unfairly convicted. Society takes felony crimes seriously, and it permanently marks those who commit them with an indelible stain. This is intended to be a deterrent to others, and now, since you were not deterred, you have to bear that burden to try to warn others. It is a CHOICE YOU made; now you have to live with it. Please stop your whining.
Other felons have gone on to make productive lives for themselves and you can do so also. It is hard and takes more work. That is as it should be and is consistent with the CHOICE YOU made.
If you find this web site upsetting, it is probably because it asks you to face the facts, rather than giving you a lot of sympathy for your destructive choice. You chose to do something against society, now society has marked you. That is life; deal with it. You can move on and make something of yourself in spite of what you have done, or you can forever be first and foremost a felon. The choice also is yours.
@Tammy: Huh? Are you telling me that it is impossible for a convicted felon to get his life back on track by himself? Dang, I didn’t get that memo. I guess I’ll just have to flush all my independent accomplishments down the toilet, and become a societal leech. After all, I can’t do it by myself right?
Well, you know what Tammy, you are absolutely correct on one thing. YOU cannot do it by yourself, but I can..and I did. Anyone who is of the opinion that she cannot succeed on her own, is bound to fail. As for those that are determined to make a better life for themselves…they will.
IT’S TOO BAD that drug taking cannot be used as a reasonable excuse, when someone get caught doing some of any degree of criminal activity; BUT it ‘s not accepted by the judge; Although we know that drugs used, is the culprit, and it can alter your brain,and your consciense to erase the inner knowledge of choosing which is good or bad, so this should be learn and remembered by the young starting to spread their wing toward their future. bye
No, it is not too bad that taking drugs is not accepted as an excuse for criminal activity. There is no excuse for criminal activity.
Taking drugs, any drugs, that make a person unable to control himself is simply irresponsible and they need to accept the fact that they remain responsible for what they do, even when they have chosen to impair themselves. That is life. None of us gets an exemption from responsibility. We must all get used to it and accept it. The process is called maturity.
Going to prison, successfully completing probation, staying clean, etc. these are accepting responsibility. A life sentence of less than adequate opportunities is cruel and unusual punishment.
Yippie, you are one of the small few that find a very to be very very successful after a conviction. It is like a powerball winner saying people should stop crying about not being rich because they are picking the wrong powerball numbers. Not that you got lucky, you worked hard I am sure, but like the man that can never be a teacher. I think that is rediculous. Crime is unrelated to the job, it was many years ago, and he paid his debt to society.
Again, you are the high and mighty, you made it Dr D so you can talk down on us struggling to find what you found as if we do not try but the reality is you can declare bankruptcy and screw creditors for 1000s/millions even, and that disappears in 10 years but not a crime worth substantially less.
Get off your high horse. Good for you, you made it. Now let’s talk reality not about how great you are and not ambitious enough we are.
DR.D: I must say i agree with you, it was the way I phrase my comment, I should have find another adjective[ that's french], but it meant what you said better than me. bye
@ Kelly Lord: I said nothing at all about myself, and it is wrong for you to infer anything about me. I am not looking down on anyone, but only saying that society has rules for a purpose, and those rules must be sustained. They cannot be arbitrarily set aside just because you think that you, or someone else, has a good case. The rules are there to protect society. The rules have been established by the common wisdom of society over the ages, and we break them at our peril. Modern society has shown a major tendency to disregard the wisdom of the past, and in every instance, the results have been disaster.
Your powerball statement was foolishness. The only thing I can say to anyone about powerball is quit; it is a foolish waste of your money. Use what money you have more wisely than that. If you are throwing money away on powerball or any other form of gambling, then you deserve to fail again and again.
You whine, “… but the man can never be a teacher.” Do you not see the reason for this? Teachers are examples to impressionable young people. He has demonstrated without any doubt what sort of an example he is capable of being. He may not do it again, but he has demonstrated that he is fully capable of doing it. Society prefers to try to find people to teach that we believe to be incapable of these crimes (at least so believed until proved otherwise).
What ever it was that he was going to teach, presumably he can simply go do in real life, provided it is something of actual value (not angry studies). The world has not ended, but the course of his life has definitely shifted because of a choice that he made. This happens every day to everyone of us, including you and me. You are cut off today from opportunities you had yesterday, even though you may no realize it. Even so, it has happened because you did not actively pursue them yesterday.
Get over being angry at me. All I am doing is speaking the truth which you evidently do not want to hear at this time. This is not about me, but about the felon and society; that is all.
@Dr. D yes whether you find it hard to believe or not the facts remain the same that, that was my first and only time getting into any trouble. It happens regardless of what you think. F.Y.I. I’m not a drug addict or don’t have a problem with alcohol (I completed a 10 yr. Probation sentence and never been to prision) I have completed college and now I’m finding it hard to get a job. Even one that I’m over qualified for… I don’t want a hand out I want to be judged for the good that I have done for myself. I know what hard work is and I’m actually willing to work even harder but I want to get a job I deserve. So… I guess I am a rare situation but I know there are more even if you don’t know them Dr.D. People are shame to admit the bad decisions they’ve made and I’m sure you have done something in your life that you may be shame of whether you are “labeled” or not.
First I apologize for the personal attack. Bad judgement in my case. I agree all societies have rules and they are for a reason but that doesn’t mean they are just and right. IMHO he demonstrated he could make a stupid mistake like a lot of kids do. George Bush is accused on using cocaine on more than one time. Is that not a felony? The difference between me and G Dub is I got caught, he didn’t. Beings he didn’t get caught in the act of committing his felony he is allowed not only to vote but to become president. I can’t even vote because I got caught. 17 years ago. I do not have the same decision making process I did 17 years ago from experience. I learned lessons. Still learning. One lesson I am learning daily is forgiveness. To not of been forgiven by society I am a more forgiving person.
I find it very hard to believe you can not empathize with a frustrated felon. For the record I am not living at home in my 30s, nor do I have a 400 credit score.
The beginning of my frustration started after scoring the highest on 4 apptitude tests than any other applicant, and successfully passed three interviews to take a job that paid about a third of what I was making at the time. The reason I wanted the job was for the tuition reimbursement. I received a letter of hired upon passing a drug screen and background check. I was open in the interview. I told them 17 years ago such and such happened. They said well you are well qualified, we like you etc etc. Their call is yes, was impressed about my resume and turning my life around, etd. but there will be a final decision made by someone higher up the corporate ladder in regards to the criminal background.
So I started googling and asking around and a lot of people have this issure. Old records that haunt them to this day. Some only misdermeanors.
Again back to the bankruptcy analogy. So if the rules of society are there for a reason and it seems that you find them fair, would you say it is ok to be irresponsible with your credit, shop to you drop, etc etc then declare Chapter 7 BK, NEVER pay back your debt and 10 years later it disappears like it never happened? That is the rule. I feel criminal records should be treated more like credit records. After 7 years bad credit comes off, BKs and civil judgements in 10 years.
Granted, murderers, rapists, serious assaults, and other very serious crimes should be a judgement of one’s character for a long time if not ever. Certain things you can never give back to society like a life or the loss of sleep a woman may go through after someone breaks in to her home and rapes her. Some young adult getting caught with weed, or breaking in to a building, and plenty of other examples of crimes that could be paid back or as in the case of the teenage weed smoker, well that’s another episode regarding personal freedoms. As I was saying, a repayable crime shouldn’t be a mark of one’s character forever. Mistakes, dumb choices, lack of proper rearing as a child, poverty, prior drug addiction, and other motivating factors make people make decisions they otherwise wouldn’t or after going through the system may decide they will never partake in those types of events ever again. Time will tell if their good intentions were honest. Assuming they were then we as a society should forgive them and treat them as forgiven persons and allow them the same pursuits as those never caught doing their wrong doings.
This is simply one man’s opinion. Myself, I am in sales, make close to a six figure commissioned based pay, and have a lot of nice things. I am great at sales, I just do not like it. I would like to pursue another career, the one of my choice will never happen if the rules of society stand in regards to forever punishing those that committed crimes regardless of how old they are.
To Dr.D you hit it right on the nail a felony will be on your record for life because some politician thought that it would be a deterrent to crime. But what you don’t understand is that the would be criminal doesn’t know the law. And once the person commits the crime they are bound by the law (and because they will be limited by which jobs they can find) now acts as a incentive to crime. The only way your defense would make sense is if we sent our kids to law school before kindergarten. And when a felon who tried to clean his life up and society spits in his face and he reverts to his old ways ,steals your car or sells your kids drugs. Blame yourself because its your fault.
To Sean
I believe you are untruthful. I don’t believe that you have been convicted of a felony. The reason I feel this way is why would a convicted felon not want to remove his felony from his record? I too am a convicted felon who has managed to turn my life around. But wanting to keep the felony on my record would make me an idiot. Are you an idiot?
@Jake: Ummm…please point out to me where I said I don’t want the felonies off of my record? Under the laws of my state I can’t petition for a pardon until 5 years after completion of probation, which for me will be 2013. At which point I will do so, until then I can’t do anything, but I don’t let that stop me from living my life. I don’t sit around and blame society for my problems, when I am the one that caused them.
By the way, you charged to Dr. D, that because of the current laws it is the victims fault when a convicted felon re-offends….and you’re the one calling me an idiot?
If you support a law that would create criminals then cry elsewhere when you are criminalized. And I never called you an idiot just asked if you were one. Good luck with that pardon and do me a favor look at how many people are actually pardoned in your state. If its like most states you would have better luck buying one of those power balls. I live my life fine but I will not live in a fantasy world expecting to be pardoned when the governor does not pardon but a handful a year. And I still think you are BSing everyone here. Actually im quite sure of it.
@Jake: Ok Jake, this is a far as I am going to prove it. If you don’t believe me after this, oh well. Send me an email (sean@libertyandpride.com), and I’ll give you my last name. I don’t really want to post it in an open forum. Then go to the link below, look in Chesapeake, Virginia Beach, and Norfolk circuit courts.
Virginia Circuit Court Records: http://wasdmz2.courts.state.va.us/CJISWeb/circuit.html
I was just going to say, “oh well, if you don’t believe me there’s nothing I can do about that. It is what it is.” but then I realized I can prove it.
Oh, and by the way, now I want you to prove your record.
@ Jake It was not “some politician” that thought up the rules regarding the permanency of the felon tag. These have been the rules of society for many generations, accepted by all. You say we need to seen our kids to law school before kindergarten for this to work, but you are wrong again. I learned all about this as a child in grade school, but that was back long ago when the public schools actually taught things, not just feel good stuff. There is the problem with much of society right there — the public schools of today are a massive failure because they no longer teach but simply indoctrinate.
@ Kelly Lord No, I don’t think bankruptcy is right at all today. Bankruptcy used to be truly a last resort, with much social stigma attached to it. Those who took bankruptcy subsequently had great difficulty obtaining credit, having any sort of future at all. Their situation was not all that different from that of the felon. That was as it ought to be. Today we have turned the whole world upside down, and that part in particular. I think it is dead wrong for people to be able to simply walk away from their debts as we see happening right and left. I wish I had a way to stop it, but I do not. All I can do, little though it is, is to shun the bankrupt and tell them that I see them for what they are, irresponsible people who have shirked their responsibilities and taken the easy way out.
I do not believe any of us have the right to say, “oh, I only fouled up a little, I’m really a good guy, give me a break,” when we have made a mess of things. Life is about responsibility, responsibility for whatever you get yourself into, whether it be financial trouble, crime, etc. Life is not fair, some have it much easier than others. That is life, and we all have to play the hand we are dealt, not the hand we might wish for. My life has not been all roses either, but I am still here, trying to make things work and no saying that someone owes me.
Sean I dont need you to prove anything to me my mind is made up about you. You see your views on the subject are the same as a gunshot victim saying to the doctor “dont fix me just stick a finger in it, I love the pain” LOL.
And Dr D I didn’t know that they taught the difference between misdemeanor and felony in grade school. Which school was that? And your wrong you see politicians pass laws therefore politicians passed this law. I also believe that everyone should except responsibility for their actions. But where we differ is I also believe that people can change and want to. Have you ever talked to a felon who just got released from prison? Everyone I have known is very optimistic. And when they can not get a job they will usually return to crime as a way to pay their bills. Keeping a felony on someones record for life will and does create crime.
@Jake: I am finding it hard to understand what exactly you think my views are on this subject. The only thing I really said in the original post was that convicted felons are not entitled to tax payer funded second chance, nothing more, nothing less. From what I can tell, you agree. I never said that I think a felon should have a record for life (although some should), but that is the law and I accept it.
You are putting words in my mouth, and then make charges that I am lying because of some views that I don’t even hold.
All this coming from the same individual that has twisted reality so much, that they have used laws themselves as an excuse for recidivism.
My views are not twisted, they are indeed fact. And I make no excuse for returning to crime but come at you with a fact as why people would and do return to crime. And if I did put words in your mouth I am sorry but this blog has turned into people basically saying if you have a felony get over it , there is nothing you can do. But getting over it is not an option, what you can do is fix it. Just because you have a felony does not make you a second class citizen after all I pay just as much taxes as everyone else. At least Obama has mentioned felony rights even though I dont agree with his plan. The republican plan is to do nothing but trash Obama’s plan as usual. Why cant the republicans think of something except doing nothing. LOL Its funny that the republican party actually started by freeing the oppressed and now condemn them for life. Good luck Sean on your quest for nothing : )
I believe that some felons deserve a second chance. Take the pot issue for instance a person is charged with a felony if they have slightly over an ounce of pot. The laws consider them as a dealer. 13 states have decriminalized it. It’s a matter of time when it becomes legal. Just look at a woman who has 3 abortions, these same lawmakers call it her constitutional right. They claim that hey it’s her body, well the person smoking pot it’s their body also. Why is it that some groups of people have more rights than others? Look at sodomy laws, it was a crime in this country, now it is not only legal but it is protected in 38 states. Homosexuals are protected citizens (minorities), and are really yesterday’s criminals. Draft dodging was a crime punishable by jail time, however Jimmy Carter pardon them all. So when you are filling out a job application can you say about your past “Don’t ask and don’t tell”. If you are going to punish people even with misdemeanors for life then why should they pay taxes? Lastly I’m a conservative, and believe in a second chance if given let’s say 10 years of clean living.
If a person breaks a man made law he is called a criminal. What do they call a person who breaks God’s law? A sinner, and everyone is a sinner. Also if you want to split hairs everyone is a criminal only some of them get caught. If you speed in your car you broke the law that makes you a criminal. It’s just my two cents worth.
@ Chill
“If you are going to punish people even with misdemeanors for life then why should they pay taxes?”
Just where does this fit into your argument? Misdemeanors do not make a person a felon. But they pay taxes to avoid falling afoul of the tax man, just the same as everybody else.
You say that you are a conservative, but then you don’t really talk like one. So perhaps you are a “liberal conservative,” a schizophrenic. To be a conservative requires a degree of consistency beyond what you have said.
As to your comparison of the woman with three abortions versus the person smoking pot, and the argument that in each case “it is their own body.” A flawed argument in one case is no reason we have to repeat the mistake a second time.
Roe v. Wade was a bad decision that has resulted in the deaths of countless millions of children in the womb, murdered by their mothers with assistance. This is a national tragedy that has cost our nation dearly and continues to do so every day that it goes forward. As one slogan put it, “an abortion does not make you unpregnant, it simply makes you the mother of a dead child.” The impact on these women is terrible, as it should be because they have elected to murder their children.
Society makes mistakes at times, and at other times it gets things right. Just because we made a mistake on the abortion law does not mean we have to make another on the drug laws. Thus your “equivalence” argument is not worth the “two cents” you put into it.
I know Something is not right with being convicted felon. They told me my felonies would be withheld adjudication upon a 5 year completion of probation and five thousand five hundred dollars paid to department of corrections. 4 AA meetings a month. I sold a 100.00 dollar sale to a SNITCH (adam moniz ) he was caught with A ounce of cocaine, so he got reduced sentencing. one year of probation . so the court told me my adjudication would be withheld upon completion but I have to register as a convicted felon. But when I apply for a JOB that does a background check, they tell me I cannot work. The system is truely a bad system. So even though this was over 2 and a ½ years ago it will always stick with me, i havt violated probation and do not intend to do so. The system Has to be easy on some convicted felons. I was young, unwed , and had no children. But know I’ll probably never get to go on a field trip with my daughter at school. I think certain felons deserve a second chance. How long Do I have to be treated like I committed the crime like it was yesterday your story only could work for very few people.
Dr. D,
Even you admit that the abortion law is wrong. Yet the government makes many mistakes and lives on to see another day with no remorse or punishment. Yet when people do these same mistakes the government throw these repentant criminals under the bus. Why are we the people held to a different standard than the flawed government? The only thing I can think of is that the government will never replace God. God forgives the government won’t.
@ Chill
“The only thing I can think of is that the government will never replace God. God forgives the government won’t.”
You are absolutely right here. Don’t confuse the government with God, and don’t worship the government. God can do much for you that the government could never begin to do for you under the very best of circumstances (even if is never made any errors).
You are confused when you say, that the government lives. The government does not live; the government continues, and it is nothing more or less than we the people of this nation. When it is messed up, it is because we the people of the nation have allowed it to become messed up. To correct it is the job of every American, not just a few. That is why it is so vitally important for people to educate themselves, and to vote (if they have not lost the right to vote). Even those who have lost the right to vote can still campaign for better government, for the candidates they think will give us better government, etc. They can do everything except vote, and they should.
This is why there is no personal remorse or punishment of the government; it is all of us. There is remorse on the part of many when we see our government foul up, and we see it happen time and again. There is punishment in that we all suffer higher taxes, worse foreign relations, etc. but not direct, personal punishment of the sort I think you had in mind.
Dr. D I have to agree with that. We know that people in government can mess up many peoples lives in the private sector much more than the one felon who wrote bad checks for example. People in government can cause much more harm and yet they never pay. This is why I don’t count on the government, even for one small favor. It’s better to handle things for yourself.
It is absolutely foolhardy to count on the government for anything. And yet, they are trying to lull Americans into a sense of dependence upon the government for everything. This is an invitation to national suicide, nothing less.
The only way to live as a free man is to be independent and self sufficient. Few of us can be entirely self sufficient, but we can ally ourselves with others in small groups to make reasonably self sufficient groups. These are the only people who are free. Those who depend on the government are slaves and always have been.
This much has nothing at all to do with being a felon or not. This is just the simple facts of life. Only independent people are free. Dependent people are never free.
The government is a joke. They need to change their laws they made up. This is gods land. But they formed there stupid laws and formed lawmen to protect them from their own laws. They took over free land and called it theirs. They stole from god. Government steals and god heals. Government does not forgive God has given. I Don’t know.
CapGamma@% — No, unfortunately, the government is not a joke, it is not a bad dream, it is a fact. We have outlaws in Washington, DC, right now, and it is up to the people of this nation to take the country back. That is an entirely different issue than the subject of this thread, however.
You speak of “they” and (I think you intended) “their” as though the government was someone other than the people of this nation. Please go get a copy of the Constitution and read it. You really need to do so, other wise you are as ignorant of our founding document as is Obama. The Constitution is still the fundamental law of this nation, even though the Libs despise it. We, the people, are the ones who control the government, and we must rise up and assert that authority.
Do not try to confuse what government does with what God does. The present powers in the government are working to enslave the American people. Good governments are instituted for the well being of men, and they are a gift of God that people might live quiet and peaceable lives. But it is never the role of government to indulge in forgiveness. Governments govern, they set rules and enforce them. Good governments enforce them justly. In any event, God will settle all accounts at the Day of Judgment, but until that time, some inequities will remain.
I believe in second chances. I was charged with a felony 17 years ago. I’m almost 34 now. My crime? Along with a couple of other poor kids we threw a rock through the window of a bicycle shop and stole 3 bicycles. I’m now a felon. Of course I was wrong but I’m paying for this crime for the rest of my life over a broken window and a bicycle. I’ve lost my faith in local and federal governments when it comes to justice. It’s all about making money to them. I can’t have my record expunged because the court waited until I turned 18 to have a hearing. They waited months to try me just so they can get an adult conviction. That is very very sad if you ask me.
Will, it sounds like you probably are getting your second chance. Are you in jail today? If not, you are getting your second chance. As a felon, you are marked as someone who has shown that they are fully capable of committing a felony crime; before you did that, people might hope that you were incapable of such an act. Now they know that is not the case because it has been demonstrated.
So, get on with your life. You marked yourself, by your own actions. This was not something that society did to you, but rather something you did to yourself. If you had cut off a finger, you would not expect that after a period of years the finger would be restored, would you? This is exactly the same thing.
Get the best job you can, which may not be the one you want. Make a life for yourself as well as you can. Start doing something for other people. Try to tell young people not to foul up like you did. You have a valuable story to tell; make it worth something. In so doing, you will help yourself as well as other people.
Dr. D, I was a kid who stole a bicycle. That doesn’t constitute a felony. If I weren’t poor and could afford a decent lawyer I’d have probably gotten a misdemeanor, which I can live with. Yea I marked myself but no one deserves a life time of punishment. I’ve served in the military. I have 2 college degrees. I’m a contributing citizen; albeit a second class citizen. I made a mistake; I don’t deserve this stigma just like many others don’t deserve this stigma. I’ve long since paid for the window and the bicycle. If you justify my life time of punishment you are crazy and on an intellectual level way below me; a felon.
WILL: hi, YES very sad, but at 17th, you could have back out of it, did you learn of the 10th commanments?, and even if you if you did not learn it, well you knew it was wrong: I personly was stolen once, and also had a gun pointed at me in a store to rob the cash, and became too nervous ,
had to leave a good job,and live through the consequences of thoses assaults on me, so because you contributed in someone to live thoses consequences of being rob by 3 young guys ; dont you think that you cannot continue to live with your own consequences of your actions?; I might
add up something to cheer you a bit maybe; think how lucky you are, because the owner could
have shot you all3 of you or beat you to make you physicly disable for the rest of your life:
SO cheer up and do the best you can to help young ones to refuse to do small crimes
thoses crimes are always big for the victim. bye
@ Will
As long as you continue to justify your actions(I was a kid who stole a bicycle), you still have not accepted your guilt. You will continue to see things this way indefinitely until you do recognize that you were the one at fault, just you. The fact that you were a kid makes no difference, the fact that you were poor makes no difference. Stealing is still stealing, no matter what the circumstances (we are not talking here about taking food to feed yourself when you are starving).
I think it is very interesting that you think yourself my intellectual superior simply because you see things differently than I do. You say you have two college degrees, and that is a good thing. It is clear that being a felon has not prevented you from getting a good education. I have three degrees: BS, MS, and PhD in engineering. Are you sure you are my intellectual superior?
@Dr. D.
” If you justify my life time of punishment you are crazy and on an intellectual level way below me; a felon.”
If you justify a lifetime of punishment then yes I feel I am your intellectual superior. You can have all the degrees in the world but if you are so close minded about this issue then you, sir, are a dumbass. Degrees do not make a person intelligent. I accept my guilt and know I was wrong. Felonies were for serious crimes by common law. Crimes like the one I committed were not serious crimes back in the day. Over the course of time the people in power got more money, more everything for their conviction rates. Stealing is stealing yes, but I’ll say it again, I don’t deserve a LIFE TIME of punishment and I don’t deserve to be treated like a 2nd class citizen because I stole a bicycle!
This is my last post. To all you felons out there, keep your heads up and farewell. To the naysayers, one of us felons may save your life one day and you’ll rethink your position. We’re good people to. Not all of us are habitual criminals. I’m a felon by history, not by nature.
No, Will, you are the one with the anger management problem, the denial of just what the situation really is. I am not the dumbass; I am not the felon. I knew enough to stay out of trouble but you did not.
Nobody has said you deserve a life time of punishment, nor are you getting a lifetime of punishment. As I said earlier, if you had cut your finger off in the process of steal those goods, you would have been marked by being short one finger. That would be a permanent mark, but you would get on with your life without the finger. Even so, marked as a felon, you must get on with your life with the mark you have placed upon your life.
Nobody says that you cannot redeem yourself in this life. But you will have to work at it, and you will have to be prepared to deal with this when ever it comes up because the mark is permanent. You put it there, just like a tattoo. Nobody says that you are a habitual criminal, but you will have to show that you are not. Go out and show that you are not. You say that a felon may save someone’s life some day and that is no doubt true. A felon will take someone’s life some day as well, so that is where the rub comes. Be sure that you are in the good group, rather than the bad group, and it will be recognized.
Calling me a dumbass suggests pretty strongly that you still have not come to terms with the fact that YOU SCREWED UP, not somebody else. I have done nothing but carry on a civil conversation with you, even if I have disagreed with your point of view. You have been unable to accept that others do not see you as the righteous, put-upon, mistreated person you think you are. Until you come to realize that it was you who broke the rules of society, and you will have to live with that, you are going to beat your head against the wall over and over. (Its going to hurt.) You can try to get society to change the rules if you think you really have a case, but no one else has had much luck with that yet. Otherwise, you can quit complaining, quite talking about continuing to be punished because you really are not except in your own mind, and get on with your life as you have made it for yourself. Our actions, even at early ages, do have consequences. Sometimes those consequences are painful. That’s where you are.
D. I don’t think anyone gives a shit what a pompous, self-righteous asshole says. Go on about your business. From the looks of your responses to EVERYONE I don’t think anyone cares what you say. I crime isn’t a fucking tattoo moron.
Your outta here Will….buh bye
All you can do is resort to vulgarities and name calling. It looks like you really do have a problem with controlling yourself. You are not even coherent – just look at your last “sentence” such as it is. It does not make sense. Seems your two degrees did not teach you very much after all, and your intellectual superiority is rather doubtful.
Oh, by the way, moron does not fit either. But that gets back to this matter of name calling, rather than dealing with issues. You don’t even know how to be civil. You say that you continue to be punished. Has it occurred to you that your attitude may be the source of your problem more than anything? You do not endear yourself to people when all you can do is call them names. It reflects badly on you. Did you know that? It will cause people to avoid you, to want to not deal with you, to not employ you, etc.
Please think about what I have said and do not reply. You need some time to think before you say something else that will make you look bad.
@ Dr D
Are you British ? You really are a self righteous prick. Its kind of funny that you mentioned the ten commandments in your post as if you are religious and if you are going to claim to be you would be nothing but a Hippocrate. And just because you would place a “D” and a “R” in front of a “D” does not make you a real Doctor. Thats all I’ve got just wanted to insult you.
you little prick.
What a strange question, Jake. Can you hear a British accent? Actually, my family came from England, but they left about 350 years ago, so the connection is pretty dim at this time. Interesting that you can still see it.
There is really nothing funny at all about mentioning the 10 Commandments. They are the fundamental basis for all law in Western society. Did you not know that? They were given by the Lord God to Moses on Mt. Sinai long ago, and all of our Western society is based on our Judeo-Christian heritage which in turn is based on the 10 Commandments.
What pray tell is a “Hippocrate”? Did you mean a hypocrite? I think that is probaby what you had in mind, but you have no basis for making such a judgment at all. To be a hypocrite would be to say one thing and do another. How could you make such a charge against me?
Penultimately, I use the title “Dr.” entirely correctly. It reflects an earned academic degree. You may not understand or appreciate such things, but that is your shortcoming, not mine. I am a very real “Doctor.”
Finally, your insult. Did that make you feel good about yourself? Did that make you feel powerful? Did that really accomplish anything at all other than show you for the very small person you really are? The small, inadequate person whose only tools are vulgar words because he cannot adequately express himself. Jake, you don’t look too good here.
JAKE , instead of being angry at someone who give you good advices; JUST get angry at yourself and make a quick about turn and change your negative ATTITUDE to continue a life with new VISION of the future, which will surely bring loving moments that will make your memory to treasure them instead of the negative thoughts you have left behind. LIFE is to precious to waste time in bad feeling, look ahead and never look back.
bye
BROB: I see you could’nt miss this opportunity to put down the GOPS, I read your comment,
while wondering why the DEMOCRATS in MAJORITY could do every things against
THE CONSTITUTION”s laws, to allowed criminals coming from the open borders,they dont want to close, and if caught get a very low prison term: SO why do they accept the fact that young
AMERICANS can live through a life time of being degraded for a have been declared FELLON, a mark on their life until the end. now where is the injustice to that behavior from the DEMOCRATS
not the REPUBLICANS as someone mentioned dont forget they are an almost absolute power to change things for the AMERICANS; but they prefer to use theirs laws for outsiders and other
muslims countrys to make them FEEL GOOD because they receive their financial supports to get elected.
Bees, I think the answer to you comment to BROB is that the Dems don’t give a hoot about the American people, felons or nonfelons. The Dems are looking for power, and anyone that can and will contribute to their quest for power is a group that they will pander to for the moment. Once they have secured the support of that group, the group will be treated no better than anyone else.
A classic case in point is the black people of America. The Dems carry on endlessly about how they “care for the black people.” But what do they do for the black people? They create endless welfare programs, affirmative action programs, set aside programs, etc. all of which have totally demoralized the black people of America. They have told black people, and the blacks have believed them, that black people are inferior and cannot compete fairly on their own merit. They have to always have endless “help.” The welfare programs have been designed in such a way as to break apart families because families with a father in the house get far less support than those with no man in the house. Every form of “help” in one way or another, becomes a shackles of dependency, a chain that convinces the blacks that they cannot do without the Dems. Even as the Dems continue to enslave them all the more so. The plight of black Americans has improved little in the last 50 years, despite millions and millions of dollars and much unfairness in their favor.
But it is all about power, getting power and staying in power. It is not in the least bit about helping people.
@ D
Actually it made me smile. What does that mean Dr.D? Please I am so concerned about this. Is there anything I can do to change myself before I become an outcast to society. Ohh thats right, I already am. Should I register as a republican voter? Will that save me? And for your info Jesus preaches forgiveness, you preach condemption therefore you are indeed a hypocrite and will be judged for your actions. And as far as posting the issue at hand, Its obvious that everyones point has been made but your to thick headed to get it. Are all Republicans like this? I am actually a independent just because I have a brain of my own and dont have to look at the political hand booklet to tell me my views. How will you get my vote?
I am so ashamed of myself,
Jake
@ ilovebeeswarzone
I’m not angry at all. Actually I think you guys are hilarious.
@ Jake
I don’t know; are you an outcast to society? You need not be, but that is largely up to you.
How you vote is entirely up to you. I certainly do not care.
You are half right about Jesus. Jesus preaches first repentance and then forgiveness. But really neither of those are the issue here. This thread is largely about whether or not to expunge the felony records of ex-cons. That is a matter of the laws of society. Jesus never once challenged the laws of society. When the Pharisees tried to trick Him with the about paying taxes to Caesar, he asked for a coin, saw the head of Caesar on it, and said, “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars’ and unto God that which is God’s.” Please go read the Bible a little more closely; it would do a lot of good.
JAKE: HOW can you insult someone and take pleasure of it? I say it’s cinical, and I would not
find you trusthworthy in any job ,because you have a develish part in deep self that would require
some treatment, seriously, you are not funny, and I am not lauphing at what I can see through your comment: in other words ; IF you are challenge by a SUPERIOR at work, you can
display uncontroled anger, that would sink you deeper if not check soon, bye
“Render unto Caesar that which is Caesars’ and unto God that which is God’s” So do you worship Caesar? or do you worship god? That to me means pay your taxes and give your soul to god. Your soul is represented with everything that you do. You really made no point here. Are you saying that he meant a separation of church and state. Are you one of people responsible for removing prayer from public schools? Are you also one that would want to remove “under god” from our Pledge of Allegiance. I thought you were a republican. Its starting to come out not Dr.
Tell us more about yourself.
Goodness, Jake. Your ability to misread is truly amazing! Wrong on all points.
@ Dr. D
You are an undercover Liberal. Dont be ashamed of it. Obama will take you in.
@beeswar
Therapy you might be right. although its not anger its more like a sick since of humor. You see I believe Dr. D’s weakness is his ego. And as far as giving me a job, I’ve held the same job for the past 11 years. So I dont need a job from you anyways.
@ Jake
Shhhh! I’m in deep cover, really deeeeeep cover.
You really need to get out more. Perhaps read a little, learn to spell, read the Bible, learn what it means, and perhaps read a few more of these threads besides this one.
You asked me to tell you about myself. I’ll give you a hint, Jake. I have spent much of the afternoon, sitting here in a black shirt with a high, stiff collar with a white, celluloid insert in the front and a silver chain around my neck with a crucifix on it, writing a sermon. All of my Bible quotes come from the King James version of the Bible.
Oh, and one other thing, when I attend the Tea Parties, I carry a Gadsden flag.
I’m that kind of “liberal,” the very conservative kind.
JAKE: I have to come back to your last comment, and tell you that I am very happy for you
having that job for 11 years, that put you in the lucky ones who have a hard time
finding a job, so when you start counting your blessing and compare with others that are having trouble to find work; YOU realy can thank GOD for your standing and feel better,than you sound to be in your comment, and you dont yet know of what kind of goodys will come your way in
your future, and I truly wish you all the good things coming,
you know thoses goodys come not when we want but in their own times which is the right time, YOU’LL SEE ,when you get there what i mean, bye
@ beeswar
I do consider myself one of the lucky ones. But this topic isn’t about me (although I am a convicted felon) its about whats right and whats wrong. And good things have already come my way. I,ve been married for eight years have 3 wonderful kids and paid off my home last year. I’m not here to cry about my life, I have a good life.
@ father D
You do know that just because you wear priest clothing does not make you a conservative right?
There is one thing I cant grasp about you. How can a preacher side on a position against what Jesus taught. Jesus taught compassion and forgiveness. My god tells me to show compassion and forgiveness what does your god tell you? I suspect that you have separated your religious beliefs with your political beliefs. You sir are indeed a hypocrite and need not use anything in the bible as a crutch for your political views. You say the government is corrupt, they are against us all “trying to enslave us”, now that sounds like a liberal. you separate your religion from politics, that sounds like a liberal. I just need one more for confirmation Dr, father, astronaut, or who ever else you decide to be. Oh your right I cant spell for crap.
JAKE: ONE more thing you have to do: GET off THAT ANGER, it’s a poison and you dont realize it:
I was hoping that you would let this one go, and pick up the best of it and carry on your life
BUT I underestimated your anger that you direct at opposite oppinions which try to help you face the problem:
SO there is no usefull way to continiue,this argument, let’s say ,I wish the best for you
and your loved ones, and, dont never hurt their feelings. bye
@ beeswar
I’m not angry just calling people out for what they are. My cross has the name felon. What name will dr.d’s cross bare. It’s obvious that our positions on this are set so farewell and best wishes.
What is wrong with people, casting judgment on other’s I have a felony, but it’s not from a rape case or a child molestation case but still I’m not one to judge, who are you to say that somebody shouldn’t have a shoulder to lean on, so a felon is just supposed to sit here and rot away, have nothing out of life? You don’t know what people go through on a day to day basis. These are trying times, people do things that they never would believe they would have done. People change, nobody is better than anybody else. Watch your words and choose your mindset wisely, you never know, you may just catch a felony and have to live with it in the future. Now days it’s so easy to catch a felony, no matter what color you are.
People deserve a second chance and if they mess that up then you can say all that, but you can’t limit people to they’re past. Life is so much bigger than all that. That’s basically underestimating the possibilities of GOD. Through GOD all things are possible. I’m no saint but I sure have seen GOD work through me and others. I haven’t found a job, but I know my time is coming. I know that this isn’t the end for me. I am not angry with your views but please, please, think outside of the box, the world isn’t flat. The same people who you judge and say are this and that may be the person who saves your life. God Bless you and yours
@JQUEST: I’m not sure if you are responding to the original post or not. If so, the point of the post is not to judge, but merely to make the point that felons should not be given tax payer funded assistance. Tax payers spend enough money on felons during their convictions/sentences. They shouldn’t be required to pick up the tab for felons once they are released from their sentences as well.
Read the original post in its entirety. You’ll find that I too am a recipient of a second chance. I am ever grateful for that chance, and I have made the most of it.
As for you, it sounds like you are receiving your second chance right now, and from what I can tell, you have the right attitude. Keep your head up, and keep looking for that job. If you’re determined, you won’t fail. You may have to work harder than others to succeed, but make no mistake, you can be successful. Good luck, God Bless, and never give up!
I believe Will should be pardoned and should be able to move on. One thing this evil government likes to do is to keep people enslaved and dependant. It’s a sad day when this evil government says that it’s OK to suck the brains out of a living baby, and it’s their constitutional right, yet a man who is repentant has to live with the scars. Everyone and their grandmothers are getting some kind of amnesty. Look at the illegals I hear the cries of Amnesty, and they are breaking the laws. Gays in the military say don’t ask and don’t tell, well how would they like it if the repentant criminal don’t volunteer information about their past? Look at the draft dodgers it was a felony and Jimmy Carter pardoned them, but Mohamed Ali had to spend 3 years in jail. Bill Clinton became president because he was pardoned. It used to be a crime to commit sodomy now it’s out of the closet and praised. In the old testament is was punishable by death.
So for those who want to throw Will under the bus you are wrong. How about if everyone who made a mistake would die instantly, well guess what no one would live. Jesus came down from heaven and died on the cross for our mistakes. For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus. So people on this board who want to throw the repentant criminal under the bus, just remember that your day is approaching soon.
I believe Will could get a governors pardon with no trouble. Just remember George Bush had a criminal record, and he became President. Will the government may reject you but Christ won’t don’t give up man there are some out here that believe in you.
Chill: hi, you gave a powerfull boosting to WILL and all others thank you. bye
Its always going to vary on how hard it is to get a job based on your conviction and record. While some felons have a fighting chance others are straight screwed.
Little T,
The only reason why some drugs are illegal in this country is because it is not taxed. Alcohol a drug, was legal then it was illegal only to be legal again. Those who sold alcohol when it was illegal became lifetime criminals. I was glad to see Ronald Reagan pardon one of them.
I received a Second Chance when I became a Sovereign Citizen!
Its a win-win situation for everybody. There’s no taxes to pay and there is Morphine all over the streets!
Well its been a few months since I have posted on here and I thought I would give an update. I’m still unwillingly unemployed. You think that it is a rough time to get a job with the economy in it’s current state is hard. This shit is nothing new to me. I’ve been to half a dozen interviews in the past months many times being called back for a second time and even a third just to hear we do not hire felons at this time……. In order to try to get my felony expunged I need to job to afford it… I’m losing my patience with it all.. To think something I did almost ten years ago is preventing me from moving forward in life. How am I to survive in this day in age with no hope of finding a job. The news reporters says it’s going to get worse before it gets better with the economy. Well for me and anyone else in my shoes it can’t get much worse. A felon cannot get any financial help from any agency.. Am I doomed to be homeless with no hope of a full life? I love the saying IT’S NOT WHERE YOU BEEN, BUT WHERE YOUR GOING. Well it seems I’m not going anywhere because of where I’ve been or should I say what I did nearly a decade ago. I’m only 26, do I just need to except the fact that my life will never consist of a steady job because of a mistake I made when I was still in high school. I’ve lived my life completely straight and narrow since I was convicted of a felony at age 17. I have stayed on the path of the righteous and honest for 9 years now and I’m not asking for a hand out from anyone, I just want a chance to prove that I am model citizen. I feel that I’m on the verge of losing it… There is only so much a person can take of put downs and shortcomings before it’s just too much. I would never do anything illegal again, but I am starting to understand why there are so many repeat felons, now yes majority never looked for a job or tried to become a productive member of society, but there are those that tried so hard to live correct and couldn’t take not providing for oneself or even their family and went and relapsed.
I have even gone as far as writing my congressmen in Illinois on my dilemma and got back a automated response that lead to nothing. I am at my wits end here…. If anyone has advice please share…
Ryan: hi, you’r so young to feel like giving up, of course you’r having a hard time,
BUT you’r not in prison, and being free does’nt mean easy life, and many young without
the name felon are also having a hard time, it’s what this down economy is doing to all ages
citizens and familys, it’s hard on all of them,
Harder on you to find a job? yes you’r right but not alone in this.
did you try to change living in another STATE? might be more understanding to your situation,and efforts to normalyse your future with beginning of having a job, where you could lower your standing and take any decent job just to put your feets in the market.
I would think that the felons should be classified in diffrent categorys, meaning degree of offences,
Where some who dont pose a danger could have a chance to be reenstate and in front of
the pervert and violent ones. I read that each states have a diffrent degree of compassion on the subject.
just dont give up that’s the trick, and in waiting time, make it a learning time. bye SR.
HEADS up the MOUNTAIN is high but ATTAINABLE to reach on top. your treasure is your youth
Well. where do we start with the point finger thing? The system is not always crack up to what it suppose to be. I agree that a lot of people get caught up in the system at a early age and couldn’t even afford a good lawyer to really give them good legal advice. Let the first person who has not sin cast the first stone, because public defenders don’t really do their job. So, please tell me is it really fair to tell someone that they don’t deserve help to get back on their feet, when the very system doesn’t care if you was innocent in the first place? All the state attorney want is a conviction to make themselves look good. They don’t care most of the time about how you may be not guilty, just you guilty. Futhermore, the black community is the victim of this system failure. I mean think about, like damn, 90% of the convicted felons are black. What….oh I bet you have a reason for blacks not being the victim hum! Well let me give yall something to think about. The black communties are mostly poor environments, broken families, and of course; the system. You tell me what wrong with that picture!
Well I haven’t posted on here in a while so I’ll give my two cents…
I am white so this is not a black thing. What this is is a way for the nay sayers to gain an advantage over the people that have made a mistake and got caught. Plain and simple.
Red904DUVAL: hi, IT has nothing to do with color of the skin,
It has nothing to do with being rich or poor either,
It has to do with the knowledge of right or wrong, and we are born with that knowledge,
and we are born with the free will to decide wich will be, right or wrong for rich or poor,
IT easy to blame poverty and color,but the fault is from the person self.
I agree that there should be more teaching of the 10 COMMANDMENTS in school more serious elaboration of the meaning of those COMMANDMENT, to all schools
AND if a young get in trouble, should be counsel and help by some kind of legitimate organisation,
WHAT come in mind would be a branch made in the military forces to get the kids on the
right track to be pardon after finishing the training which should be mandatory to felons,
so to give them learning tools also to guide them on deciding their future on a solid base.
ONLY my humble opinion, hope it make sence to you, bye
JAKE ,nice to have you back, hope your keep a positive way of thinking. bye
so i have carefully read over every post on this page…. and yes i too am a convicted felon.
i make no excuse for my crimes. i was a bad bad person once. i did many bad things. i stole, i lied , i cheated, and i did every drug under the sun.
but just because i “WAS” a bad person does not mean that i can not change.
I have now been clean and sober for over 8 years. i dont not do drugs and i do not drink! ( alcohol is 10 times worse then any drug out there) but that is a whole different argument. lol
i was finally arrested for the conviction of having marinol ( not sure that is spelled right) it is a pill given to people with cancer. My father is dying of cancer and the doctors here wont even offer this drug to him because of “THERE” views on it. so i traveled to a different state and got some for my father from another cancer survivor so he could try it and see if it helped him.
Upon returning to my home state to deliver this to my father i was pulled over and arrested for having a controlled sub.
This is why i am a felon! i make no arguments that what i did was not a crime. but i feel it was justified. Just as im sure the people who were hanged for helping slaves back in the day did.
anyways after reading this entire thread this is what i have to say………..
DR.D. You seem to me like a self absorbed ass hole who seems to think he is soooo much better then all of these other people on here. sorry for the personal attack but that is my view.
as for the ones who preach theres success stories…….call it what ever you want. Hard work or not you got lucky. Because into days world you would not fair the same.
now before you go hating on me………….i run a successful business and i pay taxes. I have hire 7 new people every year to help them out…………..P.s. i only hire felons!
call it what ever you want but if your app. does not have that box checked i simply throw it away! i know what it is like trying to find a job………….this is why i made my own opportunities. So i do all that i can to help others seeking to re-enter the work force after a mistake.
and as much as i hate the united states the one good thing to come out of this god forsaken shit hole is that we can say what ever we like at any given time but cause that is one right they cant ever take away!
fuck you uncle sam!
no i am sure i will get bagged on because i talk like a pirate and haven’t been a prim and proper. But im ok with that.
now on a side note…….. i have 4 degrees that do me no good at all anymore and im ok with that. i know that i am a good person and that is all that really matters.
to all the haters ……………. GO FUCK YOURSELFS!
AND TO THE FELONS WHO TRULY ARE TRYING TO GET THERE LIVES BACK AND TRYING TO MOVE ON…………I KNOW THAT IT IS HARD AND I KNOW THAT LIFE MAY AT TIMES SEEM UNFAIR BUT REMEMBER THESE ARE ONLY TESTS! AND ONE DAY ALL OF YOUR HARD WORK WILL PAY OFF. ONE DAY SOME ONE WILL LOOK PAST YOU PAST AND SEE THE GOOD IN YOU IF THERE TRULY IS SOME.
NOW FOR THE FELONS THAT SIMPLY WANT A HAND OUT OR ARE NOT WILLING TO DO THE HARD WORK IT TAKES TO GET YOUR LIFE BACK………..WELL ………..GO ROB A BANK OR GO BACK TO SELLING DRUGS BECAUSE IF YOU NOT WILLING TO MAKE A CHANGE FOR THE BETTER THEN YOUR NO BETTER OFF THEN YOU WERE WHEN YOU COMMITTED YOUR FELON!
THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT!
THIS SITE IS…: hi, you where doing good, until you start SPITTING first on others
AND on your own COUNTRY which is AMERICA, SHAME ON YOU:
YOU would be dead if you would would have been bad in another COUNTRY,
AND no kidding,YOU where caught on those pills you got from abroad probably because the FBI had been on you for a good while, as THEY DO’NT TELL THEIR SECRETS,and they take all the time
they need to catch a smart criminal like you who think to get away all the time,
YOU’R not a good person yet, dont brag yourself yet, even being on your own business
and hiring the felons which is very nice and kind, what ever your reason to do it,
BUT you are dividing them and yourself, from the other people of good faith which have never hurt anyone,: AND you dont project a good IMAGE of you as a leader, with your hate of AMERICA and other citizens and keeping that ANGER is not being a free person,
dont forget that your employees are looking up to you as a leader,
SO you are oblige to do give them more than a job; BUT the right INFLUENCE to feed their own soul and bringning them there own RECOVERY also as your own. bye SR
this site: This is a Conservative Political site, you can expect a wide variety of Conservative views from many different types of people with a variety of backgrounds. Many are business people like yourself and know about economic cycles that mean success or failure. Many of us were hoping to be retired at this stage, but we are facing a bleak future because of the current economic problems that plague our country.
If you are one of those with a business that hasn’t been affected, you are fortunate indeed and that reflects the luck you spoke of: yes, many people who work hard and never realize great success, hard work doesn’t guarantee success, but it is hard to be successful without working hard. Business people can make a series of bad choices or even one bad decision and suffer or the economy can make them obsolete; when you are in business, there are no guarantees or magic formulas for success, a good idea, some luck, and hard work might bring it all together, and that is this wonderful thing we call freedom: the chance to be a success or to be a failure.
Some people don’t have the nerve or will to risk everything on an idea, most new businesses fail, these people end up working for wages all their life or working as a preacher; this is another aspect of freedom, having the choice to choose among certain options.
I have often wondered how difficult it must be to come out of prison with nothing and build an estate with nothing. Without doubt, it is a formidable task and the temptation to resort to crime to get some operating capital must be tremendous. I know almost nothing about crime or the drug world because it just doesn’t enter my consciousness, but I know what it s like when you need more capital.
I commend you for your drive and dedication to improve your life and build a business, may you continue to be successful.
Although this site covers a wide variety of subjects, this one is a different even though the site owner is in law enforcement, but as a business owner, there are many ideas expressed in these cyber pages that might help you in your business. Not necessarily to tell you do this or do that, but to offer a frame of reference that has been established by many who have been very successful.
We welcome a wide variety of view points and I think with a little effort you could make some positive contributions with your business and life experiences; of course, we try to eliminate profanity, we have all heard the words, so there is almost no creativity involved in swearing and if there were, we could just tune into the site and see the profanity written across the top and go off to work satisfied. No we want you to expose yourself and let us know why and how you made it in this tough economy, most of us are patriotic and it is obvious that you are bitter, you might come to realize that the country that punished you so harshly has also given you the opportunity to recover.
We must learn not to be too vindictive over the punishment for our past transgressions. I got a speeding ticket a few months ago that would have been a hundred and change awhile back, but because the government of California is so weak and corrupt it was almost five hundred, Arnold needs to pay the bills. I know that doesn’t compare to your former situation, but the five hundred hurt when I drove 8 hours to a work site to work all day to make a thousand. I can’t dwell on the fact that it was a Hell of a price to pay for being 13 miles over the limit. I must get over the way I feel about the inefficiency of our state government and remember not to coast down a mountain at night in a car that could take the mountain at double the posted speed. Oh well, you get the picture it is a matter of degree: it is hard for a man who raced very fast motorcycles to go so slow all the time, but to make the country work, I must be bored out of my gourd for hours every day!
Anyway, I’d like you to stick around and join the discussions, I enjoyed your post and if you can get over the hatred, I think there could be mutual benefit. Good Luck, Skook.
SKOOKUM: HI, you are A wise man, and you always find the right WORDS,
IN any SUBJECTS which you decide to TACKLE; I had to note it again.
bye
Ryan,
My thoughts of your situation is this. I would start a business. I have a friend where I live who is a convicted felon who started his own business. He has more wealth than me. I would look into starting a small company such as a janitor service or lawn and snow removal service. Some business with a low investment to start, and work hard. The bible says if you work hard you won’t starve, and it don’t matter about your past. Christ died for your sins, take his forgiveness and move on. One thing nice about this life that it is not forever, and those who judge you won’t be as great as you in the next life. Take care don’t give up.
Later, Chill.
Im a female with a Felony and two Misdemeanors,I do have a job and i’ve been at it for almost two years Im ready to go but its not easy getting a new one so i feel like Im stuck here its very stressful because even-though i have this record Im not a bad person Im trusted by a lot of people I got my felony for hitting my daughter she went to school and told them and i didn’t lye about doing it i was already on probation for a fight i got into with a new boyfriend of mine baby-mother this was my first charge she pressed charges anything to see me in trouble even though she started and i finished i had to do what i had to do she know not to mess with me no more back to my daughter i was charged with a felony at the end off the day with her case she was never tooking from me i guess you shouldn’t hit your kids no matter what but thats how i was raise Im not a bad parent but you cant take money from me for the second time and me not do anything the first time i talked to her about it that didn’t work so i spanked her my second misdemeanor was when i was working at a job i had just been promoted and about a month later this guy comes in comes to my register its hard to explain but at the end of the day he districted me so much i didn’t charge his for all the things he brought to my register it was like he was a pro at this shit and i didn’t realize it to the security from the store walked over and called me up stairs i guess the thought it was someone i knew and i just grave him free stuff but i didn’t know this guy and i went to jail for like 3 days then got out and was charged with misdemeanors and i never seen that guy again i wish i could so i can tell him i lost my job over is con artist ass and was charged with his bullshit…..Im 27 and want to do more with my life Im a very pretty girl you would never think i had a record but its all bullshit stuff i want to work at a bank or in the medical field but i just dont see it happening…………..HELP
Wonderful responese…
I think everyone deserves a second chance…I know of a wonderful fellow who went wrong when he was 18 years old and served his time…he is now 36 yers old and can’t get a job to support his loving and trusting family…Please business look into these felons that have paid and paid and paid for their mistake!
I think everyone deserves a second chance…it if were anything other than crimnal there is usually a second chance…I know a young fellow that made a mistake in his late teens…He is now 36 years old and can’t get a job to support his loving and trusting family… There are thousands out there that could really deserve a second chance…Male or female…I wish it were up to me…I would do it in a heart beat…of course after some background checking…
Please business look into giving these felons a second chance…
I think that we all need a second chance. I have read the first story and that is great the mind that you got when in jail. Everybody don’t have the will to think like you until it is to late. I am a felon and keep getting jobs and getting fired because of my background. I am enrolled in college and still it’s hard. I served 24 months in jail. I thought that this was in the past. It has been 11.5 years and people look at your background as thou it happened yesterday. People get tired of hearing the same thing your fired your background just came back. I am asking you Barack who can I write to help me clear this record from my past. I need help real bad. I have 6 kids and can’t take care of them because I can’t get a job. I need your help real bad. I live in Memphis, tn. Who in the state can help me solve this problem or in your state I need to know. I need your help.
To My Life and Ros,
I believe in a second chance. People change. Times change. I’m tired of this evil government telling the rest of us who is worthy, and who is not. George Bush made a mistake, and with a little bit of money he was able to become President. It proves to me that criminals can do wonders.
It used to be a crime to be a gay, now it’s a civil right because some bureaucrat said so. Opps don’t ask don’t tell. It used to be a crime to drink alcohol during prohibition, now it’s legal and why? The government gets money for that new privilege. Pot, it used to be legal, now because of some bureaucrat it’s a crime. As far as I’m concerned alcohol is more dangerous.
NOW National Organization for Women are able to kill the unborn without being charged. Now it’s a constitutional right. They say “Government stay out of my bed room”. My Life it doesn’t make sense to me to discipline your child, and being charged as a criminal when you can take the life of an unborn.
I read about some guy who had a felony charge when he was young. He didn’t know whether or not he was charged with anything. His life moved on, and perhaps filled out applications for jobs, he might have avoided a few back ground checks along the way.. He made it to the top. He was the township supervisor. He didn’t realize he had a record until he applied for gun permit. I guess you lose a constitutional right while still having a privilege of driving a car. With that being said everyone who knew him said that he was a great man. He ended up getting a presidential pardon. So when he fills out an application, you wonder if you still have to say that you have been arrested.
If I had a lot of money I would open a business and hire people who have been arrested before. These people would be hard workers, and they would be paid well. The end result it would be a kick butt company, and the people working there would have a sense of self worth.
This Christmas season just remember this world might not forgive us but Jesus will. That pardon is worth more than any other pardon. Don’t give up hope, Jesus will open up doors that no one else can. His will be done, and so is his forgiveness.
Chill; WOW, so much more than you wrote comes out from you, invisible words long to be seen
in all your comments; I have notice the WISDOM shinning through, and I thank you for it
and to all the felons who wrote here at FA, I wish some good work conditions being offer to you,
from the busynesses who can overlook the past, and give you a second chance,
after all who can throw the stone, we are all humans surviving in a sometimes harsh world,
being young is not easy for anyone,and in this AMERICA with the freedom in the FRAIMERS LAWS, there is room for a second chance, that some can never find du to sicness
and disability, telling that you already have a chance into getting the second chance,
best of all for the hollydays to all. from my hearth
It’s very interesting to see your story and to see how you respond to the individual whose having problems getting a job. By being an ex-felon yourself you well know that there are two types of crimes violent and non-violent. Being a drug addict most of your crimes were probably property crimes,( i.e retail fraud). the non-violent crimes are over looked and only the violent ones stand out. (i.e ccw carrying a concealed weapon). A crime could have been committed 10 years ago and the person could have changed his/her whole life around for the better; however, the only thing that employers are looking at is the type of crime that was committed, violent or non-violent. Here’s something that explains the issue very well.
Ty,
I hate to disappoint you, I have not been convicted of a felony. So I’m not a felon. I have been arrested decades ago for a misdemenor. Not my fault though, but the charge stuck through a strange set of circumstances. I was with someone who had a small amount pot, and because I was with him, they got me too. I had a lousy lawyer, and they threw the book at me. I didn’t get any jail time, and it was my first, and only offense. I was told that he would get my record expunged. I didn’t know I had a record until decades later. I did alright for myself with the Lord’s blessings. Now when I see applications even for volunteering it asks me about my past. Well I want to move on, because I’ve been forgiven.
I realize they want to weed out the good from the bad, however I’m not the same person. I’m only here to post about people who feel helpless because of a past mistake. The government not forgiving people of their pasts are only cultivating more failures. This makes these people more dependant on the government. People who are truly repentant want a second chance. The ones who don’t will end up repeating crimes.
The first person Jesus took to heaven when he hung on the cross was a criminal. That flies in the face of the self righteous.
Thanks ilovebeeswarzone for your kind words. Like I mentioned, I’m doing alright for myself, I’ve been with the same company for almost 20 years, I work so hard that the recession can’t catch me LOL. I put myself in the felons shoes, because in all cases I don’t want my past to keep on coming up. It’s like being punished for same crime over and over again. True rehabilitation only comes after a probation period, and a second chance.
Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year.
Chill, hi, the unfair part of it to my mind is the leader gives in with illegals commiting the first crime by comming in this contry and many are commiting more crimes and they are being
accepted just the same, WHERE REAL BORN AMERICANS, MANY OF THEM FROM OLDER ROOTS IN AMERICA, ARE NEVER BEING FORGIVEN, WHAT IS THIS COUNTRY WANT TO DO?
WELL IT SEEMS TO ME THEY ARE FAVORING OTHER THAT SUIT THEIR VOTING PREFERENCES,
AND NEGLECT THE AMERICANS, NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE, THEY ARE NEGLECTING THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO HAVE MADE MISTAKE, BUT REDRESS THEIR BEHAVIOR TO EARN RECOGNITION OF BEING WORTHY OF JOINING THE OTHER IN THEIR PURSUT OF HAPPINESS AND SUCCESS, THIS IS A CRIME FROM THE GOVERNMENT, PUNISHABLE, BY REMOVING THEM FROM POWER .
NOW LET’S LOOK COSER WITH, WHO REJECT YOUR APPLICATION, IT’S an employee most of the time, an empty head WITH AUTOMATIC REFLEXS,WHO IS CONCENTATING ON THE NEGATIVE LINE,WITHOUT ANALYSING THE POTENTIAL OF WHAT THAT PERSON CAN DO TO UPGRADE THE COMPANY, AND SHE WILL JUMP TO A LESSER QUALIFIED PERSON WHO MATCH
HER PERSONAL VISION AND NOT THE COMPANIES NEEDS,
SO I would suggest the felons to use more tenacitys and not give up onthe first reject but go to the head of the companies and show why you are insisting because you know of your own values that you can be an asset for them. look at the lobbyists pursuing the government until they get what they want, well when we look at it , it’s all a selling game, and the first try doesnt sell but more of it will bring a result, and when you think of it, IT TAKE ONLY ONE SUCCESFUL SALE TO GET YOU A JOB YOU REALY WANT, BEST TO YOU ALL AND YOU ALL STAY PROUD AMERICANS
Well said ilovebeeswarzone. The key is don’t give up and to sell yourself, by promoting yourself.
I went to an interview and the employer asked if I ever made a mistake. I said yes, he was impressed that I was honest. Happy New Year.
CHILL, THANK YOU, AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU TOO,
I KNOW how hard it is to be young, when you get in a place to ask for work, and they ask you what is your experience, and your only 14, saying to the person 17,
I look at him and describe 10 years of experience, and I GOT THE FIRST JOB.
IT WAS AROUND CHRISTMAS, I’LL NEVER FORGET. BYE Y’ALL,
OH YES, THERE WAS THAT OTHER JOB AFTER AT A STADIUM , WITH MY SISTER
making hotdogs, and when the first intermission start, the whole public where running toward us 2 alone in there, horrified, and my older sister grab my hand and we ran as fast as we could before the mob arrive, yes I REMEMBER THAT ONE TOO.
YOU’LL SEE HOW FUNNY IT GETS AS YOU PASS THAT STAGE, BUT YOU MUST LIVE THAT STAGE FIRST, AND SURVIVE IT, IT GET EASYER AFTER,
Right on, ilovebeeswarzone. It’s hard to be young but ask God for direction. He has the right path for you.
I remember my first real job being a janitor at a hospital. It was an old folks home. The people were great.
I can relate to this article. I too am a convicted felon. The problem with some people are too lazy to get a job and would rather sell drug and will eventually, get caught and go right back to jail. I have been convicted twice and served my time both times, graduated from college within eight months from a two year program with no credits being transferred with an AAS of Medical Assisting (Knowing that it is hard to get a job in that field). I am not a quitter. There are actually some employers that will take a risk in hiring convicted felons. It’s all about the attitude, credentials you have, and the people you know. If it is so hard to get a job, it’s not hard to put some of the knowledge or experience you have into a business. It is not hard to apply for grants and loans with a business plan. I did this myself without applying for a loan or grant. Since I am a hairstylist, I figured that I could do hair from home, apply for an ein on http://www.irs.gov, file my taxes for it every year to show that I have a legal income. I also applied for an PTIN to file taxes, got fingerprinted, paid my fee and now a professional tax filer and can electronically file taxes. The point is, never give up. There is still hope out here for convicted felons.
Great blog and glad to see that you have came from a bad start to make great improvments with ur life. I must disagree withyou on playing the victim. I have tons of friends who have made mistakes early in their life and are having a very hard time getting a second chance at life. I was told by many that its like serving a life sentence on the street because your life is over. The expungedment system suck and there are no longer any jobs that dont do background checks. We dont have a a avenue or they are very limited and Im working hard in my area to help make some changes thank you for this blog check me out at http://www.GODofa2ndchance.com
James, I tend to agree with you. The system stinks. This is why you have repeat offenders. Even the repentant criminal sees little hope. However God can open doors that a system can not shut. If you get a benevolent boss, and gives you a second chance then perhaps that is a golden oppurtunity to prove the system wrong. It dosen’t take much to become a felon. Some buracrat makes up some stupid law and the offender steps in it. You get a bad attorney and things can go from bad to worse. If you hire a repentant felon, you can have yourself one hell of an employee.
Can I get pardon if I have sex offender case? I live in Mexico, This case was 13 years ago.
Please someone help me.
Thank you so much.
Hey please check me out at http://www.Godofa2ndchance.com and I will be happy to help you thank you!!!!!!!!!
Sean, I appreciate you for opening this website. First and foremost would like to say I will be incarcerated in about a month or so. I am currently an electrician that just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. I have the least respect for police officers in my area just because of the simple fact that they lied under oath in court. Basically, I just want to thank you for the motivation of knowing that even after incarceration, there is still the possibility of living the American Dream. I helped my wife get through college and my plans were to go back and get an engineering degree. Hopefully there is programs in jail where I can continue to educate myself.
Law Abiding Citizen, sorry for you, I just want to add, keep your hopes up more then ever,
and good of you to study during that time, which will pass faster,
keep your faith in the police force because there is many fine people in there,
you know only one bad in a package of good ones, that you probably will meet in your life
that would help you instead of sink you, bye
Dear Law Abiding Citizen,
With God all things are possible. Just look at George Bush that man had a record, and yet climbed to the presidency. It’s not what you were it’s what you are. If it’s the present it’s not what you are it’s what you will be. The greatest story is when a man climbs out of a pit and makes it to the mountain top. Don’t give up, God says he will never leave you nor forsake you. If he needs an engineer I believe he will make you one, and a damn good one at that.
every one Deserve a Second Chance now if you dont think so thats to bad cause my dad is a felon but its been 25 years+ and thay say that thay dont go back 7years THATS A Fu*KIN LIE thay do
Well Sean, i think that your as full of shit as a Christmas turkey, in fact, i think your some right wing, Neo Con asshole writing under a pseudonym, and you pulled out of your ass the most incredible bullshit story ever told in order to drum up anti support amongst your right wingnut constituents for Obama’s proposal, 5 felonies and all worked out ?, who’s dick did you suck?, you sure that your not a screenwriter?, because that line of weapons grade bullshit you wrote sounds more like a Hollywood drama than anything iv’e heard in my life, and just so you know, 5 felonies in less than 5 years = career criminal = 25 to life in most states, so feed somebody else your bullshit, cause i’m not buying any of it, and what your basically saying is the millions of people in this country who only have one felony conviction and can’t find work aren’t trying hard enough and can’t blame no one but themselves?, spare me the head games you lying sack of right wing shit, but hey, heres an idea, why don’t you use your apparent expertise in this area to help other people (like Jerome for example) get their lives back, but i forgot, your a fucking charlatan who’s working on behalf of the far right, who’s probably never seen the inside of a cell, so stop lying to people, you neocon fucktard, and, as for Chill, Bush didn’t work his way up from shit, he’s from a wealthy family, his access to wealth and power took care of any criminal past he had, you can’t possibly be that fucking stupid as to imply that an already wealthy man supposedly pulled himself up by his own bootstraps, The American people are truly a gullible breed……
@ RA,
First off, Sean is my real first name. I do have five felony convictions. However, had you actually paid attention to the story you would have noticed that I am not a repeat offender. All of the felonies came down on me at once. Here is the link to the Virginia state circuit court records: http://wasdmz2.courts.state.va.us/CJISWeb/circuit.jsp. Look in Norfolk, Virginia Beach, and Chesapeake circuit courts. If you are as smart as you seem to think you are, finding my last name shouldn’t be to hard. Some quick google searches would reveal that. …..if you do that search and look me up, you’ll eat your words. Do your research before you post petty, unfounded attacks.
Now, What exactly are you so upset about? I certainly believe that convicted felons deserve a second chanve. However, what I am against is the federal government using taxpayer dollars to create a bureaucracy that will help felons jump over the hurdles put in their way by the federal government. This is akin to masking the symptoms rather than curing the disease. The real issue here is poor legislation that allows criminal records to be easily accessed. We don’t need to waste taxpayer dollars on a government program to help people avoid this. We need to change the laws. Perhaps, something along the lines of allowing those with non-violent crimes to have their records permanently sealed after completing certain terms.
Government is the problem, not the solution.
@RA: P.S. I’m flattered that you think my life story is Hollywood material…..actually, the whole story is much much longer. Heh, maybe my story will be a blockbuster hit! Thanks for the suggestion.
I totally agree I think the first step is along the lines of adjusting some laws with the expungment process. With certain thing like a good length of time from the coviction and not being rearrested. Thank you Sean for this web site
@Sean: I’ll be sure and look it up, but even if your story does check out that would simply make you one of the lucky ones, nothing more, and, oh yeah, i am smart, VERY smart, so you can shove your little sarcastic remark right up your ass, that said, i did read your post, and you came off very condescending, so yeah, that did piss me off, because you appeared to be totally unsympathetic towards an individual who’s in a situation that you should be able to relate to, and if anything you should be one of the first to offer some sort of help in reguards to those who are in similar situations as the one you managed to get out of, even if that help is nothing more than a little advice or some encouragement, but for you to resort to sarcasm is simply fucked up, plain and simple, and as far as “your” tax dollars go, it seems to me that you and all the other ultra right wingnut asswipes out there don’t seem to mind one bit that $ 1,500,000,000 of those tax dollars are spent each year warehousing mainly non violent offenders in the prison industrial complex so companies like CCA, GEO, and Whackenhut can get wealthier, yet, your quick to bitch and moan whenever somebody even harbors the idea of spending SOME tax money towards some sort of rehabilitation, bottom line Sean, if you don’t have anything positive to say keep your sarcasm to your damn self.
RA, why would you be so offensive by loosing your manners on a public forum to insult and promote nothing to help the other ,on your own experience that look to me from hell,
YOU ALONE CAN MODIFY YOUR ATTITUDE ; NOBODY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ANGER,because you allowed it yourself to happened; now you can start to think positive
to change toward a better life for a future that is coming faster than you think,
just think to begin with that you are alive and into a free country probably not disable I assume
and with all what the other have to survive, should I name them for you to realize what they are?
YOU said to be smart, so I’ll let you figure it and they are many, start by looking in the mirror,
and see your eyes, nose mouth ears, what are they good for and go on until you get to look what your BRAIN posess of wonder and check each of it because there is many also.
CHECK IT UP MAN,
I really haven”t heard much about us through his own lips its up to us to create our own future and for the future of the tens of millions of men that will have to look for jobs and maybe raise a family .
Being a felon is a challenging I know longer see it as a curse now it has given my all the reason to live .
If the government gave a dam we would be able to rent there telling us to fuck our selves ,so far I havent seen no men saying go fuck your selves .
Personally I am not waiting for no one to offer me a shitty job or wait for a housing bill I have to live now .Personally prison as better I almost think death or experiencing a few rounds in my head would be better.