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5 Jan
Democrats “Dropping Like Flies” Before 2010 Electoral Bloodbath
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Tuesday, January 5th, 2010 at 11:19 pm | 1,493 views
Mata,
A propos a key change in the Senate, Rasmussen came out with a poll yesterday showing Scott Brown has closed the gap in Massachusetts to single digits! That special election is in two weeks. http://mlajoie2.blogspot.com/2010/01/what-can-brown-do-for-you-plenty.html
Now they can vote to screw America with impunity, and then get cushy jobs in the politburo as their rewards.
Good riddance to Dodd, an incompetent, corrupt statist hack and shameless thief that’s the very embodiment of everything wrong in DC today-
And as chairman of the Banking Committee, he is more than a little responsible for the entire subprime meltdown… while getting “VIP” deals from Countrywide for himself, then lying about it!
A real piece of work, this one- he needs to be in jail, not one day retired in that Irish cottage of his-
http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com/
Our local Tea Party steering committee met yesterday to discuss plans for the future: When to run our radio ads on health care, getting our PAC up and running, etc. There was some discussion on the subject of whether or not everything we have done has actually had any effect. Here’s what I sent them this morning:
Towanda!
@ John Cooper –
You wrote something that I find fascinating:
“In any war, a good technique to use against the enemy is called FUD – to instill Fear Uncertainty, and Doubt in the other side, by trying to convince them that their enemies are invincible and resistance is futile (to coin a phrase).”
You and your fellow teabaggers actually think you are at war . . . and based on what? Losing the presidential election? A half-spent stimulus package? A bank bailout that actually worked to stabilize the economy? A health reform package that is not even law yet?
So what will you do as the economy continues on it’s upward swing, unemployment continues to ease, and the fear lessens? What will you folks do to get back that fear that you admit you need to keep going?
Do you understand why you guys look like a bunch of nuts to the average American?
This state goes against and Liberal Democrats go against everything our country was founded on. The Democrats including Coakley are reducing our freedoms and rights. They want government to control every aspect of our life, no thanks. Millions of Americans have died so I can be free, even though I live in one of the most restrictive states on personal freedom.
It is proven that firearm safe storage laws and gun control laws are causing thousands of Americans their life. These laws have not reduced accidents or suicide but they are responsible for many, many deaths. Read John Lott’s book The Bias Against Guns for the facts/truth.
The facts show most violent crimes are committed by criminals with long histories of violence who should be in prison for life. Prosecutors like Coakley are always quick to cut deals with violent criminals so they can serve much less time than they should. They get out and hurt or kill again, this process keeps on repeating itself.
I have met Senator Scott Brown and he is one of the most sincere caring people I have ever met. He unlike the Democrats in this state listens to his constituents. Help turn this country around by voting in someone who is a true Patriot, strong leader and someone who actually has experience. Scott Brown has never voted for a tax increase and he will protect our rights. Please vote for Scott Brown.
@B-Rob:
You pick that up from Obama? Think you are cute? clever? Apparently Obama thought so when he used the term and like a fool you follow his lead.
The term, “teabagger” is discusting, vile, repulsive and ignorant as are those are that use it. You owe John Cooper and all in the Tea Party movement an apology. Doubt you have the integrity or decency to apologize. You don’t even respect yourself or you wouldn’t have used it in the first place.
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/definition+of/tea+bag
Another democrat bites the dust in Michigan’s Gov. race:
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100106/POLITICS02/1060345/Cherry-s-exit-leaves-uncertainty-in-Democrats-primary-race
Allen West should have been a Presidential canidate for 2008 instead of McCain.
http://allenwestforcongress.com/
Oh and, he’s also a member of the Tea Party group if my memory is correct. And I have to agree with Missy on the name calling bit. B-Rob you paint yourself a pure fool by using insults and slurs against your opposition and it only discredits your position in an argument. You can name call, swear, and insult all you like but it will not justify your position at all as these are not facts but your personal opinions.
There is a difference between, “have-nots” and the “needy”. “Needy” are, as the tag suggests, in need of assistance due to events outside of their control. This assistance is generaly in the form of training or schooling to, “teach the man to fish” to get the “needy” back on their feet and no longer be a social burden on others. The “have-nots” are the group of people that have adopted a parasitic lifestyle and do NOT want to better themselves by living by their own means and skills but off of leeching the labors and wealth taken from the working class though taxation. The Tea Party groups are highly against supporting the, “have-nots” with massive taxation policies and grossly abused spending policies.
We, as a Nation, can not support current Entitlement programs and afford the new ones coming out in the Healthcare Reform bill simply by tax collection and the Democrats who are retiring or have jumped ship KNOW of this problem. Our National Government has had to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars to afford to run current Wealthfare programs and to start up (but not maintain) the Healthcare reform bill’s spending. To be able to afford our current Entitlement programs and the new ones, there is only one solution and that is to have massive taxation on all Citizens and businesses. This is what the Tea Party supporters do NOT agree with. Every time you tax a business at a higher rate, its budget for the year is greatly reduced forcing a slew of things to happen:
1. Employee Layoff/Termination.
2. Capital/land selling (downsizing)
3. Higher prices tagged to final product/service
4. Liquidation of the Business, store closes shop for good. (far worse than Layoffs).
Our current Economical state is not healthy and imposing more taxation on a society already hurting for jobs, money, food, and shelter is not a wise move. The true solution is to have many of these bloated Entitlement programs collapse simply because there is no more money for them. When you punish those who do work for their lively hood by taking the bulk of their wealth away and give it to those who refuse to take care of themselves you will soon see either a revolt in one shape or form be it though exodus, voting powers, or physical reaction against you. The French Middle Class taught this lesson rather well to the aristocrats demanding more of the Middle Class’s wealth and fruits of labor to afford the bloatsome lifestyles of the aristocrat of that era. This Congress and White House are the modern Aristocrats who have lived far outside of their means for far too long as the rest of the nation is crumbling. What type of Revolt will happen, no one knows. Hopefuly it will be revolt though the voting booth and only just that. Our Nation can not survive a second Civil War.
Re: B-Rob #6
Your mis characterization of the tea party movement is patronizing and flat out wrong. They don’t look silly to the average American, they are the average American.
As for your predictions of an economic upswing, maybe, maybe not. While it is true, that our economic system is more powerful than the Zero’s attempt to destroy it, the recovery is far later in arrival than if we had followed an actual intelligent course of action, which would have been to allow the free market system to work. The recovery will be no where near decent, if the Zero’s economic policies are allowed to take hold. I believe you are misreading the Zero’s election as a political shift to the left by the entire country. I would remind you that the Zero and a compliant media actually ran a campaign of flat out deception. Obama was presented as a centrist, and actually claimed the mantle of being a tax reforming hawk when it suited him. Now that the American People are able to see this is untrue, he is losing support at a dizzying pace. Get ready for Henry Mancini’s, “Baby Elephant Walk,” in November. You are going to hear it alot.
Read and watch THIS!
Papa Ray
[courtesy embed by Mike's America]
I think that many democrats will choose not to run to save the party. They will take cushy jobs with speaking engagements. They are banking on the fact that Americans are inherently fair and will take it out on them if they run, but will give another democrat who is not associated with this mess a chance. They think that the democrat challenger if he is unknown and new may actually appeal more to the electorate in their district than any Republican. They see themselves as sacrificial martyrs, probably still convinced that somehow the Democrats will hold on to the majority as long as there are bright shiny new faces. So I don’t think we should get too optimistic yet for the Republicans. If these democrats step down there will be a new race between a new Democrat who had nothing to do with the mess in Congress and a Republican who had nothing to do with the mess in Congress. So the race will be down to ideas, and who has a better plan. I hope the Republicans who are running in these districts remember that. They still have to win over the democrats and independents there.
@B-Rob: Oh shut up BLOB! You are such an ass!
Good grief! Do you really want me to toss back in your sorry face all the war/Hitler rhetoric you crazy left wing loons have used for the past 9 years?
And since when did you become an “average” American?
Oh Please!
@Flyovercountry: Just for you!
B-Bob wonders what we are at war against? Well, Bob, here’s what — the royalist-socialist mindset that has slaughtered millions in history — in just the past 100 years socialism has killed off some 100,000,000 people, Bob. That’s war, isn’t it? Isn’t killing people to win something a war of some sort? Sure it is, Bob. You are clueless as to what the socialists say — they (you too, Bob,) repeat incessantly that they (you too, Bob) are at war with free markets, individual rights, liberty and the right to pursue happiness and be left alone. The socialists have been screaming for years that they are at war with America. They said it back when the National Socialists ran Germany, and when the Soviet Socialists ran Russia, and the Chinese Socialists ran China — all the while killing anyone who disagreed.
That’s war, Bob. That’s the war we are fighting Bob.
And it’s part of that war to be taking money from those who earned it – -at the point of a gun or threat of imprisonment no less, — and give it to banks that should fail, business ideas that should go stimulate themselves, and all manner of other crackpot ideals of big government, that steals money from some to give to others that a third party decrees imperially that such largess is our “duty.” Yes, Bob, it’s a war on our labor (socialism enslaves) our time, our effort, our money, or lives, our property — you Bob are at war against the people of the United States, socialist that you are — and you want to keep up the full court press to defeat the inalienable rights of mankind so that you might bring Pharaoh back to life. Yes, Bob, you all declared war on reality, on reason, on math itself. You vow, as you leader does — to take no prisoners — for it was Obama himself who said “if they come with a knife, we’ll get a gun.” That’s a declaration of war Bob. By our own “president” mind you — who bought into the redistributionist “I know better than yourself how to live your life and spend your money” socialist crud. What do we know about our own selves — that’s the message that socialists give and say they are at peace as they wage war. And it is War, Bob. Your own creed declares it so.
And now that we know which side you are on, well, that just makes it easy eh?
Alas for you all, you Bobs one and all, is that while your leader does not see the war of Islam against us, and you do not see the war you are waging for what it is — war — We the People — average Americans to you — do see it. Hitler, Stalin, Mao did not see what they were doing as war — they saw it as hope, change and audacious planning for the future. It’s your burden, Bob, but War it is — as even Lenin himself said — diplomacy is war by other means. So be it, Bob. Be diplomatic – -but we know you are at war with America.
Well put, @Jim Hlavac. But if you’re banking on billy bob being a supporter of the Republic as created by our Constitution, you’ve gotten in line with the wrong teller.
Me? I’m still roaring over this comment of billy bob’s
The multiplicity of irony here is simply delicious…. first, if there was ever a fear inducing POTUS and Congress, it’s been Obama/Pelosi/Reid. “pass this now, spend this now, or we’re doomed….” Yeah, no fear there.
Second, the notion that Wall Street and housing, propped up by the taxpayers’ cash, is the sign of a rebounding economy is downright hilarious. The party of the little blue collar guy, making Wall Street and the financial world profitable (on the backs of the taxpayer), is a dichotomy lost on the billy bob’s of the world. Proof positive the ACORN doesn’t fall from from the tree filled with other nuts.
Third and last, the pipe dream of an economy on the upswing appears difficult to impress upon the billy bob’s. Must be the bright glare of stars in their eyes, I guess. Unfortunately time is the ultimate proving ground. And while billy bob is always assured of work as a lawyer in our society, the same cannot be said for free enterprise that doesn’t depend on exploitation of others in distress for making a living.
In Colorado, Ritter was destined to be roadkill in November. Though Ritter said his decision not to seek re-election was for family considerations, he was seen as a very weak incumbent. Many Colorado Dems were quite nervous about keeping the seat. Several informal polls had Ritter trailing badly against Scott McInnis, the presumed Republican gubernatorial nominee by 15-20 points. Ritter was also trailing businessman Dan Maes, another Republican candidate with limited name recognition. You can say the writing was on the wall.
Being a one-term governor in Colorado is a bit unusual. Former Gov John Vanderhoof was the last one-term governor back in the early 1970s. However, Vanderhoof was seeking election to his first full term since he was finishing Gov John Love’s term. (Love had become Nixon’s energy advisor.) Though Vanderhoof was seen as a very likeable and very competent, he fell victim to the Democratic tide in the 1974 mid-term elections. Unfortunately, a roster of communists pretending to be Democrats swept all of the statewide positions back then. The Republicans narrowly retained control of the legislature.
BECK NAILS IT TODAY
Considering how bad things are going for the DNC, Democrats have only last card to play before 2010 elections: RACISM.
They’ll bring up the immigration issue again and will try to split the populace (plus jazz up the base).
@B-Rob: I found this comment repulsive. No where have I heard Tea Party members call themselves “tea baggers”. This is a derogatory term that the media has used to denigrate people who are fed up with both parties. They are fed up with the lobbying, the greed, and corruption in government. They are fed up with the politicians spending away their childrens futures on frivolous pork projects. They are fed up with the constant lying. Yes, this discontent has been growing a long time. I imagine that it has been there during the Reagan years, the Clinton years, the Bush years, and now the Obama years, and like all movements, the seeds were there, and now they are finally coming to fruit. It has happened in this country. The straw has finally broken the camel’s back. Now as a result, the Tea party is taking root. To denigrate them is to ignore years of frustration, and to assume that they are just now having problems. And that is what the liberals in town forget.
Count me as a proud tea-bagger. And those Charlie Browns like B-Rob are my tea-baggee’s. Savor the experience B-Rob – I’m sure it’s not your first nor last.
Time to ban b-rob? If it were up to me I would, but I’m not as nice as the authors/mods.
As for fear mongering, for 8 years we heard the left scream that the Patriot Act would be used to drag us from our homes and violate our rightts. That by killing terrorists we were making things worse. That Bush would not peacefully give up power, blah, blah, blah.
As for the “economic recovery.”
U.S. pending home sales down in November
http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/stories/2010/01/04/daily11.html
House Prices Will Not Recover Until 2016
http://ezinearticles.com/?House-Prices-Will-Not-Recover-Until-2016&id=2395555
Why some economists think the U.S. recession isn’t over
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/why-some-economists-think-the-us-recession-isnt-over/article1418586/
Why Employment Might Not Fully Recover Until 2013
http://moneywatch.bnet.com/economic-news/blog/maximum-utility/the-long-road-to-recovery-2/120/
Now b-rob go elsewhere you mentally ill, hateful, leftist troll.
B-Rob said; “So what will you do as the economy continues on it’s upward swing, unemployment continues to ease, and the fear lessens? What will you folks do to get back that fear that you admit you need to keep going?”
Actually, none of these things are happening. It is the markets that are up, not the economy. The economy is still doing poorly and it looks like this trend will continue on for a little bit longer. Besides, the “upswing” in the market could possibly be caused by the holidays since many people were spending their money. It has nothing to do with Obama and most intelligent people won’t give him any credit for it.
As for unemployment, a .17 percent drop in December is not considered easing. Many places that usually hire part-time and seasonal workers have no plans to do so in the next two fiscal quarters. Plus, they are still laying people off and cutting the hours of some seasoned career workers. In short, the small amount of jobs created this month doesn’t make up for the jobs are being lost or will be lost. Another problem that will continue to hit us hard is the fact that the dollar has reached a new 30 year low each month for the last four.
I know, in petulance, you will consider me a fear monger. However, I just try to stay on top of what is going on around me. And with what I am finding, I have plenty or reasons to take your comment with a grain of salt.
I am not doubting that there are still many things to be happy about. After all, I can’t complain because my friends and me are still receiving an education, we still have clothes on our backs, and we still have food to eat. In my view, that is plenty, but it hardly does enough to cast a rose tinted picture on the struggling economics this country is facing.
Dropping like flies, huh? Let’s see . . .
Out of 178 House Republicans, 14 are retiring — 7.9%
Out of 256 Democratic House members, 10 are retiring — 3.9%
Out of 40 GOPer Senators, 6 Senate Republicans are retiring — that’s 15%
2 Democrats out of 58 are retiring — 3.4%
In the states, 3 Democrats have opted against reelection to governorships out of the 27 seats held by Dems — 11%
Of the 23 GOPers, 4 are leaving — 17%
Yes, folks, you are correct. “They” are dropping like flies and the rats are fleeing the ship. Only it is the minority party GOPers who are taking a hike, not the Dems!
I know, as Colbert put it, “facts have a liberal bias” — but your people are bordering on delusional!
@ Tammy L –
I think your are not paying much attention
http://www.teabagcongress.com/
http://www.americanconservativedaily.com/2009/03/tea-bag-this-is-for-real-something-we-can-do/
The nutty right chose to use the phrase “tea bag Congress” . . . hence they are “TEABAGGERS” by their own choice. I did not tell them to use a phrase that had a most unfortunate but humorous secondary meaning. They did that all by themselves. It’s up there with the signs at the teabag parties that say stuff like “Immigrants shuld learn English” or “Keep your government hands off my Medicare”: it is ignorance on display, a self inflicted wound that basically tells you the mentality of the participants.
Another one . . .
http://www.reteaparty.com/2009/02/27/rick-santelli-is-as-mad-as-hell-chicago-tea-party/
“Tea Bag the Fools in Congress” . . . indeed . . . .
@B-Rob: Surprising it took you and your sponsor George Soros so long to come up with those parrot points for you.
Speaking of parrots, did you get your cracker?
You’re a day late and a dollar short as usual.
@ Flyovercountry and Hard Right –
Look, I know you guys hope unemployment stays high and people are out of work and desparate and fearful. Because like John Cooper mentioned, you WANT fear out there. But the problem for you folks is simple:
1) What goes up must come down — unemployment spike higher and faster than predicted; now it is starting to slide at an equally fast rate.
2) Since Obama mentioned in March 2009 that the stock market was down too far and people should buy stocks, gues what happened? It went up close to 40%.
3) Bank stocks were tanking a year ago; now they are way up from where they were.
4) Oil prices, other commodities, food — all stable.
5) No swine flu pandemic.
6) Housing starts are turning around.
7) We had decent Christmas sales numbers even though the weather sucked. That means . . .
I know this good news really SUCKS for you guys. Each additional employed person able to make their rent or mortgage payment is one less potential teabagger. And if those unemployed individuals actually realized that it was the stimulus package you hate that gave them the COBRA subsidy that they otherwise would not have had (you know . . . the difference between having health insurance at $300 per month or having none because it was $1,000 per month) . . . again, one less potential teabagger.
It is hard to convince people that Obama is taking the country to hell in a handbasket when unemployment is dropping and the economy is growing. Which is why you wingnuts are so damned fearful of more good news coming out between now and November, and why you cheer each additional terrorist attempt. (Heck, GOPers were even RAISING MONEY off that failed undie-bomber. How tasteful!)
@B-Rob accused: “I know you guys hope unemployment stays high and people are out of work and desparate and fearful. ”
WRONG AGAIN!!!
What an ASS you are!
Rather than deal with the substance of the issues, you follow the tested Obama technique of erecting straw men arguments.
Your intellectual dishonesty is SO transparent to all but yourself.
P.S. Speaking of the Swine Flu scare, WHO was it that was making the scare?
You have ZERO credibility BLOB!
@ Mike’s America –
I am betting that ole Zbig never taught you how to convert numbers into percentages, did he? If he did, then you should have said to your fellow cons here “Er, folks, don’t want to pee in the lemonade, but MORE GOPERS are leaving than Dems.” I did not even include the two left leaning Senate independents when I calculate those percentages. if I did, then it would be only 3.33% of Dems . . . less than a third the percentage of GOPers leaving the Senate.
Why didn’t you point out the obvious flaw in this analysis, Mike? You are a smart guy . . . surely you knew your posters were holding onto false hopes. And why didn’t you point out that Dick Blumenthal appears to be a much stronger Dem candidate in Conn. than Chris Dodd? Is this site all about mass-self-delusion?
To R-Bob and others of like ilk.
It astounds me that you folks continue to assert, as if it’s accepted fact, that people who care about limited government and fiscal responsibility are “nut jobs” to “average Americans.”
If that’s true, it seems odd that the group of voters currently surging or leading in polls of affiliation and/or identification is the “Independent” voter.
It certainly isn’t the Democratic party and, honestly, isn’t the Republican party, though the R’s and the D’s are currently moving in opposite directions on the charts.
The group that is surging is the mass of what I call “independent thinkers.” A/k/a, Independent voters.
I don’t know what you call an “average” American. It’s a term thrown around a lot but without any specific meaning. Average what? Height? Income? Age? Color? Intelligence?
I’d prefer to be an “Exceptional American” but, be that as it may, neither you nor your fellow blinders wearers have been authorized to assume the mantle of “Average American” so as to speak for “their” thoughts, wishes or preferences, claim it all you might.
Or, to be more down home about it, ‘That dog just won’t hunt.’
@B-Rob: I learned quite a few things at Columbia University BLOB. Not all of it from Zbig.
Maybe if you had gone to a better law school you might understand.
But I doubt it.
You reek of delusion and panic.
B-Rob, Some of US are at War. Some of You live under the umbrella of Safety that others provide.
Your “reality” is not ours. I still find your comments and bar room language to be both abrasive and purposefully obnoxious. Some of the folks on the night shift at the Kandahar JOC would be happy to take you out about 120Km northeast of here and just drop you off to see the war and leave you at the tender mercies of some folks that believe they are at war with America and could give you a short lesson on that subject.
From what I see and hear the US Economy has it’s a$$ in a sling despite the deceitfully jolly links you post here and the views of our European Allies on the value of US currency in the World Market are in dispute with yours. The Chinese and Japan are so heavily invested in US Bonds that they honestly don’t want the US to fail but are hesitant to back any more US Debt. Despite the Federal Funds handed out to Banks, they are reluctant to loan money back home from what I read.
Fannie & Freddie have been in distress for some time due to the lack of oversight on the part of Democrat Congress for a couple of years now. Look for the price of Oil to go up again soon due
to Obama’s failed Foreign Policies and a lack of development of US energy resources. Team Obama does not understand Economics and neither do you quite obviously if you believe the BS links that you cast out here like nuggets of wisdom.
Hard Right would like to see you banned. My subordinates want to plan your next vacation at the foot of the Hindu Kush just for their own amusement. They are of the type that come from Military backgrounds and every time they relocated due to reassignments their first day at a new school was spent confronting schoolyard punks and bullies that needed a lesson on civility. Folks that come off like you do here.
You show up here with a collection of insults but no genuine complaints that bear conventional logic and are not supported by facts. I reckon that behaving like a horses ass is acceptable in your social circle. Being rude is of value to you in some quaint middle school arrested adolescent fashion. But like Hard Right, I would like to see you go wipe your backside elsewhere. I drop by here every now and again to laugh at little men like you that attempt to make your point with sniveling and insults. I’d rather have you scribbling your nonsense on an outhouse wall in your neighborhood than annoying folks here. That’s all the time I can spare you right now.
It is 39F, partly cloudy and 03:26 hrs in Kandahar, sunny skies and a high of 60F are expected.
Those are facts from my reality. I have a briefing in a couple of hours that is reality based, not the drivel that I hear from the Pretender in Chiefs mouth piece, Mr. Gibbs.
Flyover –
Another point. You said that Obama campaigned as a centrist. Maybe he did. But you cons SAID he was a Communist at worst, at least a Socialist, and most definately “the most liberal Senator in the Senate.” But he kicked serious a$$ in the election anyway, didn’t he? And his liberal party won the majority of governorships and strengthened their hold on both houses of Congress. How the hell is that NOT a shift to the left? And if it is not, by your definition, what the hell WOULD a shift to the left look like?
Mike, Mike, Mike . . . I am not going to try to compare resumes with you; mine is just as nice as yours . . . trust me. But back to the issue at hand, just a simple question:
Why didn’t you point out to the people here that more GOPers than Dems, whether in absolute numbers or percentages, were leaving Congress with their tails between their legs? Where is your intellectual honesty?
@B-Rob: If you think being an ACORN stooge is a resume enhancer then you are a bigger fool than I thought.
As for the rest of your spin, I’ve said it before: you’re only fooling yourself!
Now, go make yourself a nice cup of TEA!
Better get used to drinking that beverage!
And Mike, here is the other problem you cons have: You say I have “no credibility” for saying that cons want things to suck. Yet I said that in response to a guy who searched far and wide and cherry-picked to find articles that proclaimed that things actually DO suck. Your poster had already proven my point!
But I present to you the same question I asked before:
would you rather have 6% unemployment come late October (which will help the Dems) or keep it close to 10%?
Secretly, the GOP wants things to suck real bad, so they can blame it on Obama. but the numbers are turning his way, aren’t they?
Another thing: the number of GOPers jumping ship, if you think of it from a “futures” perspective, says that they think the Dems will have a good year in 2010. Just as no one would have guessed in 2008 that Barack Hussein Obama would wipe the map with the GOPers in 2010, no one is picking Dems to add seats in 2010 at this point. But the body count so far says “GOPers are in big trouble.” Maybe that upstate NY Congressional District turning Blue in the face of teabagger mania is a harbinger of things to come.
@B-Rob… by heavens, I’ve no idea what you have your office watercooler filled with…
“an at equally fast rate”…. really? A .2 drop in employment between Oct-Nov is “equal” to the rise? Tell me about those not included in your magic BLS (should be “BS” number) that are falling thru the stat cracks because they are on one of the perpetual extensions Congress doles out like candy every few months? Or don’t those count for your rhetoric, and is merely a pesky fact easier to ignore?
And a bit premature, are you not? Two days… new employment figures. They dang sight better drop, as Nov’s did, because of seasonal hiring. Or don’t you figure seasonal into your rhetoric either?
Missed that little factoid I mentioned that of course the banks and stocks are doing well… they’re all guaranteed for their losses by the taxpayer. And now that financial support is stealthily transferred in the back rooms from Bernanke’s Reserve to Geithner’s Treasury. Same money… all from us. With all that taxpayer cash pumped in, and free support, they damned well better be doing good. This and a dime won’t get your ghetto clientele a cup of coffee.
ummm… that’s why it’s up over $80 brl… stable, eh? And who pays for that in the end but the consumer. Gee… I feel so much better now. Considerably cheaper last year. Stable… about as stable as your thought patterns.
You musta missed the Obama/Sebelius “fear” campaign for the non-epidemic.
You’re way out of your expertise here, guy. Same concept as the banks. Housing bubble is trying to reinflate, courtesy of your POTUS and your Congress…. all on the taxpayers’ dime. But again, you won’t figure this out until your blindsided with truth in time. But I shall be here to remind you, when your values tank further and FHA/Fannie/Freddie all suck up more taxpayer “bailouts” (which Geithner conveniently managed to bypass Congress on in the 11th hour for the future by removing caps…) because all these new “improving” housing stats (not starts…. new construction STILL in the tank) turn toxic.
Can you say about 2-2.5% equity in 50% of all the loans this year? (That would be a 3.5% down FHA loan, but with 1% upfront MI one time fees refinanced back in). If they had to sell tomorrow, they are already upside down and toxic. Just wait til Bernanke raises the rates.
~~~
@IndieDogg, that was a stellar response to billy bob’s comment. However when you have someone on a hallucinogenic, believing this is an improving economy for anyone but finance, banks and wall street, you sometimes have to just wait for reality to catch up. It always does. Al Gore’s having an increasingly hard time convincing the world of global warming when it doesn’t happen.
It is, however, extremely offensive when a snake under a rock Chicago lawyer suggests that anyone who advocates fiscal responsibility and calls out for fiscal responsibility is “rooting” for failure, instead of sounding the “one if by land, two if by sea” alarm. All I can say is those that sounded like me are those that Founded this country in small government and fiscal responsibility. Those that share billy bob’s “social justice” progressive concepts of government cures live in Cuba, Venezuela, etal.
I think I’m in fine company. It’s billy bob who’s the fish out of water. So cast your personal insults Alinsky style all you want, billy bob. Repeat your lies until you are blue in your face… they still will be proven lies in time. And I’m quite patient to watch you eat your words, or try to cast further aspersions elsewhere.
I will, however, never forgive your kind for your concerted attempt to destroy a great Republic.
Mata. You rule, with guns blazing. Well done. I believe we can change B-Rob’s name now to Mr. Crispy.
Now, I have a question, or an observation, that you can correct if I’m off base.
Those who came together to form this Republic were not “politicians” by trade. N’est pas, to honor the French for their aide, and their nice statue for the harbor.
If we remember that, it might help shine a light on the intent of these people as it is embodied in the Declaration and Constitution.
They were setting out rules by which they wanted to be governed.
They were not setting rules by which they would govern (and control) others.
On the other hand, people whose sole occupation in life is to “run” the country (even the thought is occasionally nauseating), of course, are inclined to find more ways to do their “job” and expand their “area of responsibility” — like most bureaucrats.
If we recall who the founders of this nation were and from whence they came, it might help us understand exactly how Lost in Space are the likes of Billy Bob, Pelosi and the Gang that Can’t Vote Straight.
Mata Harley –
I see you chimed in. My thoughts:
1) More con poo-pooing of the good numbers. It just proves my point.
2) and 3) — you don’t LIKE the fact that the stock market is doing well, but it is, isn’t it? Know what that means for pension portfolios and 401ks? It’s called “good news,” Daughter!
4) Food is down and I just paid in the $2.60 range for gas. A far cry from $4, when McCain argued that we should have a gas tax holiday, isn’t it?
5) Did we have a pandemic with 50,000 deaths, or didn’t we? No, we didn’t. This is called “good news.” Again, I know you wish it were not so, but there it is.
6) Housing . . . again, you are predicting utter chaos. I know you want it, but it is not looking like it is actually going to happen. Yes, it sucks to be a negativa diva, but there it is!
Fiscal responsibility my a$$. If you cons had had your way, no telling what would have happened to the economy. But thanks GAWD the voters did not sent McCain and Susie Sunshine to the White House.
Hey, I know it hurts. But face the facts: we are doing better now than we were a year ago. The worst is over and the economy, much to con chagrin, is improving. Just sit back and enjoy the ride, cons!
Old Trooper –
The person you called “Pretender in Chief” is the duly elected president, having won more than 350 electoral votes and more popular votes than any president EVER by the second largest margin EVER. It sucks to be the LOSER, but your side LOST. The voters spoke and they said “no more cons” — bigtime. Either get used to it, or move to another country with a president more to your liking.
IndieDogg and Mata –
Here’s another thing: you rail against socialism. Whatever. But when you use “European” as a put down, to people who have never left the holler, that might work. But anyone who actually KNOWS anything about Europe would say “Hmm . . . Europe’s not so bad.” THAT, my friends, is why the right is losing college educated adults: you are trying to convince them that something pretty decent is actually bad. It’s like saying to a heterosexual male “Salma Hayek is awful ugly, ain’t she?” Er, yeah . . . that’s a winner . . . .
What color is the sky in your world?
We deal in facts, so here’s a graphic that may help you.
(I’ll have to apologize again for the fact that there wasn’t one done in crayon but perhaps you can muddle your way through. We grownups don’t frequently use Crayola or Rose Art.)
Notice the pretty line in the lighter blue color? That’s what the gov’t said would happen with no stimulus bill.
Notice the pretty line in the darker blue color? That’s what the gov’t said would happen with the stimulus bill.
Notice the pretty line in red? That’s what has really happened even with the stimulus. Yeah. The reality is that nothing the gov’t has said would happen has really happened.
By the way, Mr. ParaLegal2…you can go here to purchase one (or more) items from a fine line of consumer goods bearing the chart above.
With your special coffee mug and matching t-shirt you’re bound to be the most popular guy on the short bus. Heck, you might even score some extra attention in the Judge’s chambers too.
Someone mentioned Blumenthal?
Here he is getting PWND by none other than Glenn Beck.
Roll the tape:
billy bob, you misconstrue. I fully celebrate any genuine gains that benefit pensioners and investors.
My difference with you is I recognize that is a gain with all risk shouldered by the taxpayers. Now, were I as blindly foolish as you as to believe that when the feds either yank out that rug of taxpayer support (when the Reserve pulls out, and the Treasury simply can’t overprint any more cash in the Reserve basements) that the stock market could hold it’s own, I would be fully ecstatic. Because, you see, you again lie that all of us wish for failure simply for political power. That would, instead, be the hallmark of your chosen party members…. I believe Iraq and Surge demonstrates that point adequately.
Again you “poo pooh”, as you say, financial analysts that are genuinely concerned about the stability of the economy and the markets once the taxpayer is no longer on the hook…. assuming (hopefully) that happens some day. If it doesn’t we’re all in bad juju.
So you once asked me the same question you asked Mike… would I prefer 6% unemployment or 10% in October prior to the midterms. I answered you genuinely with 6%, of course. However I, unlike you, do not listen to WH talking heads and media parrots when it comes to the economy.
At this point, I remained steadily tuned to the financial networks of all political stripes… Fox Business News, Bloomberg, Euro Squawk Box, BBC, even MSNBC’s biz channel. I have to say the the majority do not share your optimism because they follow the money, and know that the taxpayers pockets are not as deep as necessary to keep the banks and housing industry inflated as they have in the past.
As I said… time is on my side. Your mea culpas and eating your shorts will be welcomed at that time. But knowing you and your Alinsky rhetoric, hardly expected.
Last point… if you are so enthralled with European government structure, planes leave regularly from int’l airports. ta ta Other than that, don’t expect me to support changing my Republic for your Euro-socialist dream. And BTW… you may want to check out how Europe is doing financially.
billy bob… sigh… you just don’t know how to actually put out facts instead of talking points, do you?
Glad you’re happy with that. It was $2.43 a year ago. What an improvement, eh? Oil and commodies started going *majorly* going up 1-2 days ago… and along with them will go the prices at the pump and our utilities. In fact, at today’s $83 per brl, compared to the $30′s per brl in Jan of last year, you should be thoroughly embarrassed at your “stable” comment. Get a grip.
I believe Aye cleaned your clock for you on the “equally” strong reduction in unemployment over a seasonal hiring season. Still no comment on all those living on extension not included, I see. An inconvenient fact.
Now there’s a laugh. Never believed it was a pandemic. That was an Obama/Sebelius/CDC fear-mongering talking point. And you again prove you slithered out from under a rock by suggesting I wished for such. It is not my kind screaming for population control. Look to your own back yard.
You may also want to remember that despite all the fear-mongering of pandemic from YOUR eunuch in chief, antidotes were unavailable for all but a chosen few until after time proved that the pandemic scare YOUR president and cohorts proclaimed was pure bullshit. Good thing those death panels were thwarted by their own lies, eh? Over a year of warning, and they still couldn’t provide their own shots in time except for a few.
Housing? As I said, talking to someone who lives on LSD about economic analyses is like pissing into a nor’easter. Just you wait, ‘enry ‘higgins, just you wait. Time will evolve into reality, and you will have no other choice but to try to make up new lies to pass on.
In the meantime, the rest of us who’ve been trying to prevent this from happening… ala stop increasing the taxpayer risk, debt and interest on that debt… will be cursing you to your grave. May the strongest repercussions of what you refused to help stop lie in your own backyard.
Well, let’s see… how much time did BLOB get us to waste today?
More than his idiocy was worth to be sure.
B-Rob, The Pretender is the TEMPORARY resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
I have better than 29 YEARS invested in keeping Pseudo Intellectual phonies like You
Safe. Running my ranch back home brings me more income than Military pay as an O-6.
I pay more taxes in a year than you most likely make in a year and have seen residents of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue come and go based upon elections. My Rank is Permanent.
Over almost 3 decades I deployed to places where Foreign Policy and Diplomacy poorly conducted fell on it’s ass because of poor judgment, bad decisions and ideologies based upon ignorance on the part of clowns in office. I don’t need a lecture from you on any subject.
Get over it Jocko. Obama is a phony and a one termer. Why was I recalled to Active Duty from Retirement if the Boy Wonder and his Band of Idiots had things so well in hand?
Things are not so well in hand here and no, it is not Bush’s fault. It was a hesitancy, lack of priorities, failure to take sound advice from Professionals that marks Obama as a rank amateur and a Pretender in all of the 57 States and abroad.
You don’t have to answer that. I know the answers and You quite frankly don’t.
Otherwise you would be running something other that a keyboard.
Really?
Hmmmm……
Dayum!
Don’t you just hate it when the facts get in the way of a good story?
Well, let’s see what’s really happening vs. your blathering:
From the eager water carriers over at AP:
Let’s see what the spittle flecked fellationists over at the New York Times have to say shall we?
I’m sorry….What were you saying again?
Gas averages $2.91 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, B-Rob. So how is it that you paid a little more than 30 cents less than the national average? I don’t know, but it leads me to believe that it is you who might be the one fudging numbers for your own benefit. As for food, gonna have to disagree with you there. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, a loaf of bread cost on average a little over $2.00 (Buck 97 without taxes, which vary by state) in 2009. Hard to believe that it was around $1.10 to $1.50 circa 1998 to 2008 according to the same source. Also, you’re confusing the market with the overall economy. Either that, or you’re changing the word from market to economy in all the recent news article about the rising market we’ve been seeing.
No, the United States economy is still not doing well. The market for December of 2009 had an “upswing” because of the holidays. People spent their money, and as a result, money began to circulate through the markets causing a spike in their numbers. And as our nations history shows, we can have a good market and still have a bad overall economy. As for the unemployment rate, it went down by a little bit, but it wasn’t anything significant. Don’t get me wrong, I am glad some people found work during the holiday season. However, a .17 percent reduction in unemployment during the holiday season is kind of small compared to that of other years, and would hardly be considered an easing of unemployment. Well, at least the members of the United States Congress won’t think so, and for very good reasons.
Overall, most companies are still laying people off. Recently, their was an article in Time magazine covering people who got laid off of work before the holidays. In it, Brenda Schultz, a manager of a U.S. postal service store in Mobile, Alabama discusses her disappointment with having to lay off some of her employees two weeks before Christmas. I just want to clarify that, the USPS is beating many other mail couriers in the market, yet still cutting hours and people. My point being with this story is that many businesses are still cutting their number of employees, and cutting the hours of the workers that they’re keeping. Besides, most places like the USPS are usually happy to hire extra hands in terms of part-time employees and seasonal workers. Yet, they haven’t been doing so this year (including the holiday season, which is unusual) for the most part, and they don’t have plans to do so for at least two or more fiscal quarters. So there is a good chance that the .17 percent might be in vain because the unemployment rate might go back to 10.17% or even higher.
Sadly, some economists do not think employment will make a full recovery until the year 2013, and if this comes true, that will lead to many other obstacles that we will have to face as Americans until then. Take for example how employment and the value of our dollar may impact one another. For each of the past four months, the U.S. dollar has reached a new 30 year according to the San Bernardino Chronicle paper released during the week of December 12th, 2009. At the same time, our performance as a nation to create jobs hasn’t been so good, and the average unemployment rate for 2009 loomed at around 9 percent or higher.
I am not trying to be a nuisance by complaining about anything. I know that there are many nations going through much more difficult circumstances economically, as well as in other ways. I am grateful that I can still continue a good education, have clothes on my back, and food that my family can share. However, despite the fact that there’s good news coming out of this country every week, I can’t possibly concur with you that the economy is “easing.” Mainly because everything that I had read overwhelmingly indicates otherwise. Healing? Hopefully it’ll happen very soon, but it may be too early to tell.
Ryan, kudos to you for again expressing yourself well, with eloquence, and taking a courteous high road to boot. You’re a better “mankind” than I am. I have little patience with those bent on turning us into a Euro-socialist country because they believe it superior. The very notion of such is an assault on our foundation. Dare I say it? Yes… UN American!
BTW, oh emerged snake from under rock… you never weighed in on Europe, and how well you think your Euro-socialist countries are doing.
But then, it’s likely you never knew… being limited in your news searches. Unlike you, many of us see both sides, while you remain tunneled visioned on those that fit your ideology, and worship your back yard community organizer eunuch in chief hero.
Old Trooper… love hearing you remind those educated attorneys that Oval Office occupants are merely temporary stewards. We always hope they’d know… but then I guess that’s expecting too much.
BTW, Aye… allow me to thank you for @ putting into “pictures” the info for the reading challenged, like billy bob, that I have put into so many posts INRE the economics and housing forecasts. Truly you are becoming a “clocksmith” for cleaning the clocks of so many “parrots”, as Mike says.
Guess I should just make my future posts nothing but pictures, eh? We must, after all, appeal to the lowest common denominator. And our Chicago law school grad, billy bob, is a perfect example of such. LOL
@Hard Right: forgot to mention INRE your “time to ban” comment…..
Nope. Not in the least, as far as I can see. I have no problem with dissent opinions. Only problems with those who project themselves as articulate and learned, while simultaneously parroting talking points with no substance… just Alinsky “fire ‘em up” emotions.
Besides, all cats need rodents and snakes with which to play.
I notice brainded rob didn’t post a single link supporting his fantasy world. I’m not shocked since the mentally ill like himself are allergic to facts and reality itself.
As for the teabagger comment, you must think we are as stupid as you to buy the BS excuse you posted. Like I said, if this was my site, you’d be gone for that alone. That’s besides the fact you are really just a troll.
I find it amusing “people” like you only seem to call names when you think you are safe. One on one I’ve found the behavior of libs to be rather different…more…cowardly.
MATA while I disagree with his POV, that isn’t my problem. When a vulgar name is used that is crossing a line as far as I’m concerned.
While I disagree with Larry W, I don’t want him banned. I have very little tolerance for the KOS types and b-rob is definitely one of them.
That’s the point, HR…. billy bob blows BS and emotions. We return fire with facts and statistics. He claims the high road, apparently only contenting himself with such an easy criteria to meet. The contrast is readily apparent, and is not a point in his favor.
As far as “vulgar” names goes, unfortunately the TB reference to which he refers is becoming a main stream term. I’m not much on labels, so I’m not going to let that deter me from the heart of the argument. That I will address. Parsing words? A “distraction” from the issue, as “let me be clear” Obama likes to say. When you get diverted in BS piddly ass stuff, you lose factual momentum.
I can deal with billy bob. The real question would be, can billy bob deal with his erroneous forecasts of a rosy future under Obama’s spending frenzy?
@IndieDogg… so sorry to have missed your “question” INRE our early patriots. Instead of concentrating on who our Founders were and what they did for a living, let’s revisit what happened to those who signed the Declaration of Independence. And yes… it’s the version from Snopes so no one can claim it’s pure conjecture. Less dramatic than the email versions, but the repercussions of aiding revolution are nonetheless pointed.
It is these same men (and families), who were punished by the British Empire, and/or the rebellion for freedom, for being at the heart of this nation and it’s frame for personal freedoms and limited goverment. It is in the company of these with these men that I consider myself in my (lack of) demands from government. Lawyers like billy bob would, of course, be representing the British Empire, and busy “alinsky’izing” those dissenting voices, leading the verbal lynch mobs (ironic, eh billy bob?).
If you haven’t read the fate of the 56 signers and their families… or re’read it in awhile… it’s always worth a gander. And far superior to what they did for a living.
B-Rob, I think many people within the youth of this country are subscribing to the left wing doctrine because if one disagrees (especially at a college), that person may experience some form of mistreatment and may be labeled an outcast. In this generation of mine, it is easier to get along if you just go along.
The second I start debating liberal friends in college, they really get emotional, even when I haven’t gotten to the point yet. This is stifling discussion, and makes it a challenge for me to want to continue offering them my care and friendship. Of course, it’s not always like this. Like when one of my friends who got angry at me because he failed to get me to lose my calmness during a debate on the Iraq war woke me with a phone call at one in the morning because he had a little too much to drink with the Gammas, I was his designated driver home.
Besides, losing the support of college students is hardly a loss. Most of the time, they learn and they start to harbor different beliefs as they get older. Plus, approximately half the country remains conservative, and the more you poll people with degrees, the more you’ll find people with a right of center lean in their politics.
I will agree with you that Europe is a great place. There are people that I grew close enough with there that I consider them close enough friends that I would take bullets for them. My heroes aren’t just Navy SEALs. The British SAS are also a large inspiration in my life.
However, despite the fact that I find many things that I like about Europe, I find it safe to say that it has its downs just like we do. For example, less than 23 percent British, and 26 percent Germans have access to the meds that prevent Atheromas (arterial blockage leading to a myocardial infarction or stroke, can also be called atherosclerosis) such as the statins. Whereas, the U.S. has plenty of the statins and gives some to the Europeans and the Canadians. Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit from the statins have them, and one of the main reasons why it isn’t much higher isn’t because of poor insurance or because the statins are expensive, but because many don’t know that they need it yet. The Europeans also enjoy twice the amount of waiting time for medical assistance than we do.
However, using the flaws that Europe is resiliently striving to change in debates with people who support a government run health care service isn’t why college students choose to be liberal. Many just choose to go along to fit in, and in many cases, students get a one sided story of every political discussion in the classroom.
One sided as in, on the left side of the aisle. Its like a subliminal message in a movie. The people who are running the film repeatedly flash pictures of cola in between frames making you thirst for it, and the first person who caves in just helps pull everyone on the band wagon. When teachers repeat one sided talking points memos, it gets ingrained on the psyche of the audience and the people begin to believe it. When a kids friends begin to believe it, it gets even harder to resist, and dissent. Overall, the parroting of left wing talking points by professors and most college students buying into it has the same effect as a subliminal message in a movie.
One professor in my college just got in trouble for trying to make students who may have voted for Prop 8 banning gay marriage into villains. Despite the fact that the in class discussions on Prop 8 were largely peaceful from both conservatives who supported the proposition and liberals who opposed it. In a fit, the professor brought guest speakers into the classroom to slam the people who voted for the proposition.
Students of both sides of the debate wanted to leave the classroom because they felt this attack was wrong and immoral and that the professor had poor judgment in doing this to the class. In the schools coyote chronicle paper, some conservative students who felt Prop 8 was the right way to go still had nice things to say about the professor, the liberal students who had friends who were conservatives in support of Prop 8 said the students “didn’t deserve the bashing and the disrespect.” This is one example of teachers trying to taint learning by sneaking their political views into the lesson.
@Hard Right: It does serve a useful purpose to have some of these George Soros trained parrots around. They are always nasty, like BLOB, and suffer from a lack of intellectual integrity (which Aye continues to demonstrate).
No one would believe us if we told them what a piece of work parrots like BLOB are. We have to show them.
And I am grateful that Mata, Aye and now Ryan are willing to debunk his idiocy. Of course they know that BLOB will never admit he is wrong. Frankly, I’d rather spend the time developing new posts to reach a more receptive audience than arguing with one lefty loon, but hey, that’s me.
Another good example of a repeated fallacy that can act like a subliminal message when constantly rehashed is the claim that Bush gave the credit of the 9-11-01 terrorist attacks in New York and Washington D.C. to Saddam Hussein. Yet, five days after the attacks, the Bush Administration confirmed that Al Qaeda was responsible, as they’ve been telling the news outlets prior that Al Qaeda was the one they were suspecting.
Around the same time, when Cheney was interviewed by Russert, he was asked if Saddam was linked to the attacks in which he replied “no.” Then again, in July and September of 2002 prior to the Congresses vote to put the Joint Authorization Resolution for military action in Iraq into law, Rice, Cheney, and Bush all have reiterated that 9-11 wasn’t done by Iraq. Rice and Cheney said it in separate televised interviews, and Bush said it while giving a speech. It’s nice to have this confirmed in black and white at FactCheckdotOrgs archives. The false notion that Bush gave Saddam credit for 9-11 can finally lay in the grave that it dug itself.
Of course, this does not change the fact that Al Qaeda had a presence in Iraq prior to the war, and that they were operating with Ba’ath military officers, which shortly after Clinton dropped out of her 2008 presidential bid, Harry Reid admitted. Yet, the false claim that Bush made 9-11 Saddam’s responsibility has led to the multiple repetitions of another, the falsely repeated claim that Iraq’s Ba’ath party couldn’t have operated with Jihadist terror groups because they were secular.
Never mind the widely reported fact that he was spending money on building mosques in addition to building his palaces, and the fact that he chose a side in a religious war between the Sunni and the Shia that was tearing up his country. None of which are secular actions. This false statement gives the people who oppose our country using military intervention in other countries (especially in Iraq) the subliminal message that they can brush aside historical context to keep their political views in tact.
Looking at the history of Pan Arabism and the origins of the Ba’ath party, despite the Ba’ath partys original stance of secularism, Iraq’s Ba’athists have a long history of getting involved with the mosques. During Saddams tenure as president of Iraq and prior to, the Ba’ath members in Iraq were known to lend their hand to the members of the mujahideen al shura group who were operating in Iraq (but not exclusively). Iraqi Ba’athist support of mujahideen religious fighters during the 1950′s and on made Gamal Abdel Nasser (the founder of Pan Arabism, the movement that gave rise to the Ba’ath party being found in Demascus in 1940) uneasy, and up until Saddam was removed from power in 2003 it made the Ba’athists in Syria and the Asads a political opposition to the Ba’ath party of Iraq.
To summarize it plainly, sure the Ba’ath party is supposed to be secular as a result of its Pan Arab roots, but Iraqs Ba’ath party wasn’t secular before or during Saddam’s presidency. In fact, they would rarely adhere to the partys secularism and its Pan Arab roots so long as Saddam was a key member of it. Now that they have a second chance to be involved in Iraqs government and to be involved in its elections, maybe now they can follow the Ba’ath partys Pan Arab roots and be: secular, peaceful, and in support of Muslim nationalism (not separatism). The ball is in their court, and they can finally get it right for the first time in 25 years.
When I said earlier that repeating a talking points memo has the same effect as a subliminal message, these two often repeated though debunked claims are very good examples of this effect taking place. Of course, there are many examples, but these two are the ones that tend to come to my mind the most considering the pervasiveness of these claims in discussions regarding the current military campaign to hunt and catch terror groups.
If anyone is wondering where I got the percentages of Germans and British who have access to the statins, here it is.
-National Center for Policy Analysis.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649
Someone mentioned Marianne Williamson down stairs and how she is upset with obama whom she voted for..so I looked up her face book and dropped this bomb in it.
Her face book says: Where does a democrat go? If obama desn’t grow a spine…
http://www.wikio.com/comment/?infoid=158794764
Personally, I’ll never be a dem ever again.
My response was:
You voted for the spineless liar not me. Ya know where you can go. Go to hell. He stole the Dem party so no real dem has anywhere to go. How’s that? He intends to take this country down. Thanks alot bozo. You are a simpleton and hardly the mystic you claim to be. You are thoughtless and empty-headed. He told every single one of you what he was going to do and you didn’t listen. You imagined what you wanted him to be. He intends to take this country down. He is not for America. You and people like you have voted in a fascist. Don’t believe me just wait and see. Ask God to forgive you for ruining this country. You will have to pay. It’s only going to get worse so you have only one choice. Apologize to the patriots of this country for what you did and denounce this evil man. God is pissed at you and the likes of you. This is God’s country and you aided and abetted it’s demise by voting in this rotten nincumpoop. He is evil down to his soul and his wife is too. He’s looting the treasury right under our noses.
See what this retired writer of the village voice, the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Commonwealth, the New Republic, the Atlantic and the New Yorker, has to say about this evil nincumpoop who is ruining America on PURPOSE. It’s no surprise to anyone who didn’t vote for the phoney nincumpoop. We warned you but you would not listen. You are the guilty ones and you have BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS. Wait and see.
http://www.rutherford.org/Oldspeak/Articles/Interviews/oldspeak-Hentoff_2009.html
I would have to say, Mataharley, that the ingenious B-Rob is taking his cues and mannerisms from the infamous Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” manifesto. The core rules for dealing with debates, as detailed in the book, is to verbaly insult your opposition and use confusing and conflicting sources of information which is not yet acredited to be true to dismantle the real data and facts.
I hate the book, but I have been skimming though a copy of it to understand it and to see what weaknesses to these rules have and so far the only weakness this book has is: The Truth. Even if a certain point,person, or event is polarized and attacked, the truth of the matter from the defending side has to be expressed loudly and go on the offense to challenge the authenticity of the polarized attack’s sources and facts.
@ Mike — two more posts and you still have not answered my question . . . and neither has anyone else.
You all think life is going to suck under Obama. I get it. I remember in 1992, noted conservative political theoretician Mike Ditka introduced a failed GOPer Illinois senatorial candidate by predicting something akin to “If Bill Clinton is elected, we will end up a third world country.” Ditto the GOPers who, lock step, opposed Clinton’s 1993 tax increases with predictions that we would go into a never ending recession and tax revenues would shrink. These dire GOPer predictions, in my view, have two separate roots: (a) an abjectly flawed understanding of the business cycle and the effects of taxation, and (b) wishful thinking — that the economy gets so bad under a Dem that no one wants to vote Dem for 20 years.
On the flawed economic thinking, you can see it in con attitudes toward taxes. Cons think you can cut taxes today and increase spending today, but the magic revenue fairy will give you even higher tax revenues tomorrow. How’d that work out under Bush, y’all? Cons also think that any tax cut increases revenues and any tax increase decreases demand on the supply side. But what they have no concept of is price inelasticity. Stated simply, if you put a 5 cent per gallon tax on cows milk, no one stops buying milk and shifts to soy milk. Put a 30 cent tax and some people might slink away, but some never will. Same thing at 40 cents. But to push tax cuts as end all and be all, cons work from the theoretical perspective that everyone sits up nights thinking about the marginal tax rate of this or that. It simply does not work that way.
Ditto the revenue side. Tax cuts do not produce higher revenues. Want proof? Name me every state that has decided to deal with the current fiscal crisis by cutting their tax rates. It is a short list of “zero” I would bet. In fact, if that were so, no Red State would have a tax rate above a microscopic percentage, like .005%.
On the wishful thinking side — conservatives have a grand theory of how government should run; but they simply have no working models to show how great things can be in a con eutopia. Liberals can point to Sweden or France or England as their preferred model . . . all functioning socialized democracies with high life expectancies, first world technology, etc. Cons, however, have no country of their own, and no workable conservative states that anyone would want to emulate. Texas? 46th in health care, poor pollution controls and shocking crime and teen parenting rates, with public schools are hopelessly segregated and that, in a word, suck bigtime. Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina . . . do I even have to finish the sentence?
So cons are left to rail against how things “would be better” under con theories of government and how liberal theories suck. The worst thing in the world for cons, though, is a well functioning economy under a liberal . . . it simply f’s up their thinking. Which explains why, even in the face of the economy OBVIOUSLY turning around now, I see people on this board expecting, hoping and praying for the worst. It is why Mike refuses to say whether he would want to see 6% unemployment in October (which will help the Dems) or 10%. His silence, and the doom and gloom here and on con talk radio, of course, answers my question. Sean Hannity and Glen Beck and Rush have convinced you all that America is “being destroyed by the enemy from within”; any facts that show that things are getting better simply don’t register because in your mind, Obama and the Dems “should not be successful.” But all the numbers point to a continued recovery . . . and you cons can’t stand it!
I won’t even get into the fact that Obama, a student of Reagan, refuses to be pessimistic or scared about anything, leaving it to conservatives to play the Chicken Little role. And I won’t get into the complete absence of any actual alternatives offered by conservatives. Instead, I see nothing but spittle flying from the right wing. Sad . . . .
Ryan –
I get the stats on statins. But until the French, Belgian, British systems have WORSE life expectancies, more malpractice, and fewer individuals with insurance, the US system will still fail to measure up.
I live in a town, Cleveland, with strong, internationally know health care facilities. My next door neighbor, a urologist, travels to the Persian Gulf region to treat patients. The hotel near where I work has been taken over by by some royal family from the Gulf. It is a great town to get sick in. But if you don’t have insurance, you go to county hospital, which is going broke, of course, treating the uninsured. Other local hospitals have gone under for the same reason. Go a bit south of me, into Appalachia, and the health care outcomes are at Third World levels. The socialized countries simply don’t have those issue and, as a result, they have a better system. As it was once described — our system consists of islands of excellence in a sea of mediocrity. It is why, when compared to Canada, England, Germany, France, etc., our numbers simply SUCK.
Unless and until cons come up with some construct that deals with these issues, the only option will be a Canada-like, or Britain-like system. And forget about “tax credits” — if you don’t have a job, you can offer as many tax credits as you want and I still won’t be able to buy coverage. And even if I have them money, I can;t get coverage if I have a pre-existing condition. How does a tax credit help then? It doesn’t. Nope . . . the Obama bill will have some significant impact; but if it does result in 30 million people having coverage and preventative care who would not otherwise have that, you cons will have a tough row to hoe explaining why it should not pass at all.
B-Rob,
What a small world it truly is. I also live in the Cleveland area, and am from West Virginia, (what I believe you feferenced as apalachia.) I have a lot of family currently living in Canada, (Toronto and Hamilton.) You are being a lot dis-honest here. Those without health insurance are able to qualify for medicaid. I know quite a few social workers in the area, both with the county, and with Berea Family Children’s Home. The hospitals are not going broke, but are consolidating. Mercy Hospital closed due to a lack of patients choosing their facility, the same thing happened to Deaconess. Simply put, other larger, newer, and better run hospitals were operating very close to both Mercy and Deaconess. As for the crisis in West Virginia, it comes down to tort reform. Doctors refuse to practice in West Virginia because the tort laws are insanely slanted towards the plantiff. I beleive we, “Cons,” have been yelling about tort reform for years. Using Canada’s model for health care, or Britians for that matter is simply idiotic. When my Uncle Richard was diagnosed with Leukemia, he drove to Buffalo, and sought treatment in the U.S. It seems that the wonderful Canadian system saw fit to place him on a 9 month wait list for treatment. He would have been dead by the time a doctor could treat him. By the way, he had to be diagnosed in Buffalo as well, as his symptoms were not deemed worthy of investigation by the understaffed and resourced Canadian System. As for England, 57% of British citizens have admitted to performing Woodshed tooth extractions. Beeing from Cleveland, I am sure you know who Triv is. He has a saying which is my favorite. “Don’t pee on my head and tell me it’s raining.”
@B-Rob: I don’t think life is going to suck while Obama is in power. None of the stuff he is proposing will go into effect until after he leaves. I think it is going to suck for our children and their children. You can’t keep spending money you don’t have and expect it to magically disappear. We are in debt. Debt means money you don’t have, you have borrowed. Sometime later it will have to be paid back.
I also am increasingly concerned with the increasing role of government. I like my freedom. I want my children to have the same freedom that I have, the same freedom of opportunity that currently exists. I don’t want to live as Europeans do. I don’t want my children to live as they do. I lived in Germany for three years. Gas prices are outrageous. The cost of insurance and owning your own vehicle is beyond the means of ordinary citizens for the most part. The cost of groceries is highter than I have ever been used to. The Germans pay more taxes out of their paycheck than any Americans do. They have to pay for health care (surprise it is not free), universal day care, and the many,many other programs.
I am currently struggling to make ends meet on our current income. If my tax rate would jump up another twenty to thirty percent to cover health care and the many many more programs that they want to enact, my family will go under. And so will many others.
And if you are naive enough to believe any government official who says that they won’t raise taxes, I have a bridge to sell you. They never raise your taxes at first. They wait until you become dependent upon them and their services, and then they gouge you.
There is a reason you keep government as small and as less intrusive as possible. And Obama and the Democrats and the rogue Republicans who believe that tax payer money is their personal checkbook is the perfect example. Remember in his first year in the senate, Obama claimed over $9 million dollars of our money in pork, without doing a damn thing to earn it!
That is what I resent. And it has to stop for our sake, the sake of our children and the sake of our grandchildren.
It is clear B-Rob has not even read the materials answering his question but still uses polarized, ignorant attacks.
Ok, for the comment he makes about, “Cons not offering a solution” I will have to have to highlight how much of a fool B-Rob is and how ignorant he is about a little thing called, “The Patient’s Choice Act of 2009″ penned by the Republican base and proposed in Congress/Senate back in Spring of 2009. Here is the Document:
http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=d4eab376-d507-4fb9-9f17-8b479a10affc
As for propping up a European or Canadian system, B-Rob, I like to point out how dangerous that is given that Canada’s various Proviences is considering or in the process to Privatize their Healthcare Industry to releave budget strains, defeicts and to improve the over all care of its Citizens. Germany is already in the process of slowly stepping away from Socalized Healthcare to a full Private industry and Great Britian is considering this solution adopted by Germany within Paraliment
Wall Street report of U.K. : http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125533924279879927.html
Canadian News Article http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451570546396929.html
You wish to be a faithfuly blind follower of Communist ideals then keep treading that path. Your reward for it will not be the glitter of gold and conquest, but enslavement and hardships. There is little need for, “have-nots” in a Communist government that refuses to work. Nazi Germany, Communist Russia and China have shown their attitude towards those who have blindly helped their Governments take root. Failure to understand History, B-Rob, is a deadly problem.
I would like to add something about Medicaid if I might add. Medicaid is a state run government health program, whereas Medicare is a federal run program. They both suck. In the state of Michgian, Medicaid has a terrible reimbursement rate for physicians and providers. If they don’t pay the bill within 30 days, they can take up a year to pay the bill. Even then they might not pay if. You can’t even status the claim for six months, and then you have to do it online. You are not allowed to call them and speak to a live person to resolve a problme. You have to do everything in writing or online. THus, as you can imagine. Many, many, many bills do not get paid, but the services were provided. Plus, you are not allowed to bill the patient if they had good medicaid. If they don’t get paid, the provider has to write it off.
When they choose to pay, reimbursement rate averages around 30 percent for physicians, and if you are lucky for inpatient or outpatient services, you might get them to pay 10 percent. The rest has to be written off.
COnsequently many hospitals and physicans will no longer take medicaid patients becasue the goverment screws them. Hospitals and physicians have to take the medicaid patients if they are recieving federal or state grants, but if they are totally private, many will not take the medicaid patients. My sisiter-in-law who lives in Alabama always has a struggle to find a doctor who will take her medicaid insurance, and she has to travel a long way to find one.
@B-Rob:
When deducting deaths having nothing to do with healthcare….. auto accidents, murders, lifestyle(gangs, drugs), ethnicity, diet and in the case of infant mortality…..the US counts any infant with a heartbeat as opposed to most European countries that will only count a live birth if the baby is 12 inches long or as in Germany and Austria, the baby has to weigh a pound and in France the baby has to have had a gestation of 26 weeks………our life expancy numbers are better than than France, Belgium and the British.
The US hasn’t failed to “measure up” because when our healthcare system is involved treating heart disease, cancers, AIDS, etc. our life expectancy surpasses countries with universal healthcare and our patients aren’t suffering or dying while waiting to be treated.
I recall over 15,000 elderly died in France a few summers ago from the heat while the doctors were vacationing. No big deal they were old and infirm, get em off the rolls. Government run healthcare, can’t beat it.
@Flyovercountry:
So, are you also filling up for $2.60 per gallon like the “ahem” Chicago attorney?
I was rather bored and found this webpage:
http://www.chicagogasprices.com/
2.60? He must have some rather good dealer in petro.
Re: Missy
So, are you also filling up for $2.60 per gallon like the “ahem” Chicago attorney?
Two days ago, after Tuesday’s market restoration, I paid 2.74 per gallon. I didn’t see what it was today, but you can bet the price will be forever changing. The sad truth of the matter is, it could be about a buc a gallon if we would simply decide to drill for it here in our own nation. Deer Season is in November to December in most states, I think we need to open up January for Liberal season on a national level.
Considering the NCPA article I linked this thread to, do you think the people who’ve read it will care that the U.S. has a shorter life expectancy? That all the substance in that article can simply be brushed off and ignored since we don’t live as long?
Highly doubtful (and wishful thinking on your part if that’s what you’re hoping), since the answer to prolonging ones life is getting out and becoming physically active, which happens to be the choice of an individual and has little influence from our healthcare system. Also, we cons aren’t against taxing. But we are right in saying that it shouldn’t be so high. Yet, whether we are right or wrong is irrelevant, after all we are still in good company. Let’s see who we have!
We have the past 5 presidents (Reagan to Obama, though it’s ultimately up to Congress for tax policies), as well as a significant chunk of blue collar conservative democrats. I’d say many agree with the notion that taxes shouldn’t be increased, and for good reason. For example, the average American works five months of the year just to pay taxes alone, that’s about three times higher than the previous two generations according to Michael Hodges’ Grandfather Federal Economic Debt Report.
For my case, it’s not that I would have any problem paying my taxes, I would gladly pay them. However, I find it necessary to iterate that this would cause many Americans to struggle. Many Americans can’t just live off of seven months of income to pay for: mortgage, appliances, and other important commodities, the low income Americans in particular (although they are already in the lowest tax bracket).
Maybe a good solution for these people is to find a higher paying job? But this isn’t guaranteed. I see people trying to achieve this everyday as a college student. Students working to earn degrees in exchange for better income and benefits. However, this plan of many (though, not a bad one I might add) might very well be a catch 22 so to speak, since this year not as many college students are able to find work close to or shortly after graduation.
@Mr. Irons:
I’m outside of Chicago, it was $2.81 a couple of days ago. I also looked up Chicago prices because brotha’ b-rob had told us earlier that he was a S. Chicago attorney and knew people that knew Obama. Now he’s telling us he lives in Cleveland, next to an in-the-know urologist.
In a day or so he will attempt to make an honest man of himself and just may tell us he’s from Des Moines living next to an ethanol salesman. Gas prices there might be that cheap, Iowa is usually around 25-30 cents cheaper than we are with Des Moines having thee bargain basement gas prices.
@Flyovercountry:
Mr. ParaLegal2 must have driven all over the city of Cleveland to find the one station that was “$2.60″.
View at EasyCaptures.com
Aye Chihuahua,
I am not at all sure what the gas price thing is all about, but I notice some confusion on where B-Rob is from. He has claimed to live in both Cleveland, and Chicago. Maybe next week he’ll move down the alphabet to Denver, of Des Moines. If he’s an attorney of even a para legal, then litteraly, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle. My guess, is that this fool is one of those Saudi paid blog spammers touting the liberal meme, or possibly an Acorn thug. I will say thanks for your gas price posts for my city. I notice that Costco is listed as the lowest, which is not quite fair, as you need a membership to actually purchase gas there. 50 bucks, and you are allowed to buy their gas for a year.
@ B-Rob
I don’t know why I bother responding to this wanna be commie but what the hell I’ve got nothing better to do right now.
The claim that the Republicans have offered nothing INRE Health Care Reform is not exactly correct. Here’s an excerpt from the Washington Examiner dated Sept 11, 2009:
So, as you can see there are numerous bills but little reporting of Republican sponsored legislation. This makes for great sound bites like “The Party of NO” when in reality it is simply the propoganda machine in full operation.
In addition there were some 160 Republican sponsored ammendments to the Senate bill although that number cannot be confirmed since the Senate committee will not make public the proceedings.
If there truly was a crisis in health care that required bills to be passed so swiftly that legislators don’t even have time to read them let alone understand what’s in them, then explain to me why most of the benefits do not even begin until the 5th year. If government acts as it has in the past, the taxes that will be levied a full 4 years prior to the implemtation of the benefits portion of the bill will most likely have already been spent on some other perceived need just as social security revenue has been spent on other social programs rather than being invested and used for the purpose it was collected.
Well, I see BLOB did succeed in his major goal, which was to change the subject from Dems dropping like flies to a discussion on gas prices…
Not exactly a smart strategy since that’s just as big a loser for Obama as Dems retiring.
In an effort to tie the two together, here’s a reason why so many Dems will be “retiring” one way or another in November:
The Obama undertow is going to sink them all in November!
If you can remain detached from Obama’s bumbling, this whole thing becomes more humorous with each passing day.
A few things . . .
I would gladly discuss how the Dems are “dropping like flies” if that were so. But seeing as more GOPers, and a higher percentage, are exiting stage right than Dems exiting stage left, you cons are concerned about the speck in their eye and ignoring the friggin 2 X 4 in your own.
I never said I live in Chicago. I went to law school there, but have lived in Cleveland for the past 16 years. I just paid $2.60 for gas while driving between Cleveland and Columbus. In town it is probably closer to $2.75.
Among the hospitals that have closed here during my 16 years here include the ones mentioned previously, as well as St. Michaels, St. Lukes, Mt. Sinai, and another one on the south central side of town that I can’t recall at the moment. To say that hospitals have not “closed” but there has been “consolidation” reminds me of the road manager in “This is Spinal Tap” saying that the lads were “playing to a more selective audiance.” In fact, those hospitals closed for the same reason that Metro, the county hospital, is in trouble: too much uncompensated care extended to people without insurance.
When I was at Legal Aid (my BigFirm mandatory pro bono stop) one of the clients I helped was a guy who was a mid 50 year old laid off engineer from Lakewood. Just after his COBRA ran out, he had a stroke. His bill from Metro was about $80,000. He was one of those people too young for Medicare, too “rich” for Medicaid, and not wealthy enough to pay the $500 per month to continue COBRA. THAT is the problem with our system that needs to be fixed: the middle class, the shaky relationship between employment and health care coverage, and the bankrupting effects (on individuals and hospitals) of uninsured and, therefore, uncompensated health care. Add in Medicare and Medicaid paying low and paying slow, add in insurance companies unwilling to pay a dollar more than Medicare/caid does and you have a situation where my soon to be ex gets reinbursed about 30 cents on the dollar . . . from both government and non-government sources.
The GOP had several years of uninterrupted control of the House, the Senate, and the White House. There were enough interested Dems who would have GLADLY gotten involved to address the engineer’s problem I just mentioned –= led by Ted Kennedy. But did the GOP ever make any effort to address the problem? No. It simply was not a priority. Likewise, had the GOP actually tried to get involved in solving the problem now, maybe there would have been a “better” less statist oriented bill. But, again, the GOP calculation was to just stand on the side lines, yell “death panels”, and try to keep the unworkable and nutty status quo going.
Where was the GOP proposal on pre-existing conditions? At least the Dems give the insurance companies some cover on that by expanding the pool with the coverage mandate. But now the GOP attorney generals want to attack the coverage mandate, as if that has nothing to do with any other part of the bill. Again . . . no interest in solving the problem, just pissing in the lemonade.
There is a reason why you guys are the minority party, getting older and shrinking. There is a reason why people under 35 are more willing to say they have the clap than claim the GOP is their party. “Keep your government hands off my Medicare” says it all: you cons have made yourself the joke.
Chihuahua –
Strongsville, Chardon and Avon are all in the Cleveland area. Gas is $2.61 in Strongsville. But I bought my $2.60 gas in the boonies, anyway, between Columbus and Cleveland.
Missy — I never said I lived in Chicago. You inferred it because someone called me a “South Side” lawyer. I went to school there and have lived in Cleveland for the past 16 years.
So, let me get this right:
You’re pretty much flip flopping on what you’ve said piror about being in Chicago?
Wait… what?
The price of gas from day to day is a rediculous place to draw a line in the sand anyhow. This plrice fluctuates daily, and is difficult to micro-predict. Over the weekend guys, 2.60 in strongsville may have been possible, not in Avon, I am uncertain about Chardon. After Tuesday’s market restoration, no way. Who cares? Gas prices are artificially high due to government meddling in the marketplace. Since the Democrat takeover of congress in 2006, the average price has more than doubled. If the socialist party aparatchiks would move out of the way, gas would be what it should be, closer to a buck a gallon. Let us drill where technology permits, and refine it free of the nonsensical regional requirements, and rid ourselves of the punative government taxation of a very useful comodity. The fact that B-Rob is able to point to a meaningless drop in daily retail pricing shows nothing but an argument from a very weak position. By the way B-Rob, in 2008 the Zero stated in one of his SEIU campaign gigs, he thinks 4 bucks a gallon by the end of his first term would be a fair price.
I wouldn’t exactly say, “doubled.” In 2006 gas prices were pretty much where they are now but climbing up. Infact, if memory recalls the Democrats in Congress/Senate mostly ran on a platform of bringing fuel prices down and to combat the evil Bush fuel monopoly. Funny how in 2008 the fuel prices were almost tipping 4.00 or higher a gallon across the nation while Congress did completely nothing to fuel prices. I remember paying almost 3.46 a gallon of gas in Wichita back in 2008 a few times in the summer and the local papers warning that 2009′s projected fuel prices could hit 4.50… I also still had a job in 2008 at Cessna till Congress choosed to insult Private Aircraft industries…
@B-Rob: Correction, I called you a “South side Shyster.” And there’s not much difference between Chicago and Cleveland.
And I can’t wait to celebrate the election of my friend John Kasich, as Ohio Governor in November!
@ B-Rob the communist
I’d imagine with the loose moral standards and rampant promiscuity of today’s youth, more youngsters having the clap than membership in the GOP is probably closer to the truth than you realize.
Of course B-Rob the communist totally over looks the 30 House bills introduced by Republicans that were pointed out in post 78. Go figue.
What resembles an osterich with it’s head in the sand? A demonicrat.
Oh! Oh!… I’m on a roll now! What do you see when the pillsbury doughboy bends over? Doughnuts
Hey, I’d rather be a member of the orginal Grand Old Party that liberated an Enslaved People during the Civil War than suffering from Clap or any other S.T.D.
@Donald Bly: I guess he hasn’t seen the newest Gallup poll.
Conservatives are on the rise!
And we ain’t voting for Democrats!
I’ve been spending a lot of time positing on the NEA’s public discussion boards. It’s really quite comical and ultimately sad to see the misinformation, ignorance and downright rabid leftist propensity of todays teachers.
It is no wonder that so many feel that today’s teachers are incompetent. Their writings, at least on those boards is evidence that you can’t teach people to reason. Unfortunately at some point the issue of diversity of ideology in our teaching professions needs to be addressed or we will continually have new crops of brainwashed children entering the ranks of the voting public.
Donald, don’t lose hope. One thing that I have learned about kids and children. They could care less what the teachers ideological bent. Most kids tune out the political rantings of their teachers, and I have found from personal experience is that children love the truth, especially teens, and they can smell a line of bull from very far off. They and our college youth have learned the art of survival in school. Tell them what they want to hear, collect your good grades and move on.
I really believe that teahers don’t have all that great of impact as they believe that they do. What a child leans and respects is what they learn and value at home, and many parents, once they grow up and have children, surprisingly revert back to a more conservative approach.
Tradition has always worked because the definition of tradition is this: those attitudes, beliefs and customs that withstand the test of time. Sorry for the cliche, but it is true.
Don’t despair.
@Tammy
Thanks for the words of encouragement but when I see a post like the one below I truly believe that our education system needs some real reform. Granted children may outgrow or eventually see the leftist rantings for what they are, however, the apparent ignorance and down right incompetence of some of the people teaching our children is another story.
I had to direct the individual to http://www.dictionary.com so that he could enlighten himself as to the meaning of “posits”.
This brings me to the question; Should unions be allowed to represent teachers? The fact that most school districts are essentially closed shop bastions of unionism, does unionization of teachers serve a useful public purpose or is it an impediment towards ensuring that our children are given the best opportunity for a quality education?
@ TammyL
I was chagrined to see Sean Hannity use the term “Tea Bag Movement” last night on his show. Hopefully, some of his staff noticed and he subsequently issued an apology, but I didn’t see it.
@John Cooper: Obviously Sean Hannity is a RINO and must be boycotted!
Mr. Irons –
No I didn’t “flip flop” on where I live, because I never said I live in Chicago. In fact, please find the post where I said I did, since you accused me of lying.
Donald Bly —
Go see your doctor. Tell him that he needs to take you up a step on the meds because your cognition is slipping. Don, if “Communist” is the best you can do to describe the part that controls 60% of the Senate, a similar percentage of the House, and the same percentave of the state houses, then what does that say about the GOP? That the average American would rather have Communists running the show than the GOP speaks a mouthful about the rot that is the current Party of Lincoln.
And Don, the fact the young people don’t and won’t vote GOPer, a HUGE swing from 20 years ago, that means nothing to you? Let me put it this way: if a product manufacturer found out that its product was skewing older and older because young people reject it; it was becoming more regional and having less appeal nationwide (even in the New England region where the product used to rule the roost); if the product was less and less attractive to fast growing minority groups; and college educate people and subsurbanites are also running from it too — that product manufacturere would want to do something FAST to solve the problem. But what is the GOP response to this? Tea baggers, birthers and death panels. Yeah . . . that works.
Mike –
Kasich was a hot commodity . . . back in the late 80s! He will be running against a pro-gun Methodist minister who will have balanced the budget by CUTTING SPENDING first, then raising taxes as a last resort. Kasich has the same chance of winning that a beef tenderloin has when thrown to a hungry dog: slim and none.
It’s intresting, is it not that when placed into a corner, you deny your flip flopping of locations. Ok then, I will ask you this: What is your Legal Practice, Zip Code and Congressional District of Operation? Hint: One of those is a trick question, figure out which.
@Mike’s America:
Are you talking about Gallup? They mentioned that in January, 2009 Democrats had the lead in the Generic Ballot by 7 points.
Now, January. 2010, Republicans are up 9 points……Dems lost 16 points in a year and it is now Republicans favored by 44%, Dems sitting with 35%.
What a difference a year makes!
Or, are you talking about Rasmussen?
Last year 37% identified as conservatives and 37% identified as moderates, liberals…..only 22% would claim that.
This year, 40% are claiming the conservative mantle, the moderates, 36% losing a point and liberals are still sucking the hind teet, also losing a point to come in at a whopping 21%.
IMHO, the biggest “con” was the “Lap Dummy” his ventriloquist managed to fool much of the 52% that voted for the dummy. They were “conned” into believing he was moderate. Bet that act don’t sell a second time.
Flyovercountry –
Your wrote the following:
“Gas prices are artificially high due to government meddling in the marketplace.”
Simply wrong. Gas prices are directly related to the price of oil. When it shoots to $130 per barrel, expect our gas to cost about 80% more than it does now. Indeed, the proof that you are simply WRONG is the fact that gas prices dropped from $4 per gallon in June 2008 to about $1.60 per gallon in December 2008 with NO CHANGE IN GOVERNMENT POLICIES WHATSOEVER.
“Since the Democrat takeover of congress in 2006, the average price has more than doubled.”
Simply a flat out bald faced lie. You made that up and it is simply false. You are either ignorant of the facts or you are lying on purpose.
As someone was so kind to point out, the gas prices in my area were ranging recently from $2.60 per gallon up to $2.80. Now let’s see where prices for regular gas were nationwide (first column):
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/ftparea/wogirs/xls/pswrgvwreg.xls#'Data 1′!A1
According to this chart (official numbers, dude), gas was about $1.46 when Clinton left office in January 2001. When Bush was inaugurated in 2005, it was at $1.84. When the Dems turned the Congress in November 2006, it was at $2.33 and when Obama was elected in November 2008, it was at $2.34. It later got as low as $1.60 per gallon.
Under what definition of yours is $2.60 now “double” the $2.33 price from November 2006? Because where I come from, that is about an 11.5% increase.
“If the socialist party aparatchiks would move out of the way, gas would be what it should be, closer to a buck a gallon.”
Like I said, gas was about $1.46 when Clinton left office and the GOPers took over everything. And what happened to the price of gas? Just look at the chart! So no “socialists” were in control, only GOPers, and the price skyrocketed and has NEVER gone back to Bill Clinton era levels. If anything, we should be following whatever policies were in place back then, NOT whatever Bush and Co. put in place. Because pricewise, that appears to have been a disaster.
“Let us drill where technology permits, and refine it free of the nonsensical regional requirements, and rid ourselves of the punative government taxation of a very useful comodity.”
That “punitive” taxation keeps our roads in decent condition. If we drop the tax, where do you propose we get the money to repair the highways? is the magic tax cut fairy gonna drop bags of money on Washington?
“The fact that B-Rob is able to point to a meaningless drop in daily retail pricing shows nothing but an argument from a very weak position.”
Er, yeah. Keept tellin’ yourself that. I provided the hard data to prove my point. What did you provide? Nothing but a flat out wrong statement of fiction.
“By the way B-Rob, in 2008 the Zero stated in one of his SEIU campaign gigs, he thinks 4 bucks a gallon by the end of his first term would be a fair price.”
Care to provide a link to that?
@ B-Rob the Communist, Pinko, Socialist, Red, Markist, P.O.S.
I noticed that you, in your typical style, focused on a tangent while totally ignoring the 30 pieces of Republican legislation that has been introduced, contrary to your previous lying assertion that the GOP has offered nothing.
Hope you like the expansion of your new title, as you requested.
@Mr. Irons:
He’s been the butt of jokes in here for at least three months because of his practice in Chicago and has never once corrected anyone. After he mentions living in Cleveland in this thread and was called on it he suddenly feels the need to set the record straight. He brought up it all here in the first place. lying then or lying now.
Gas prices, as by How Stuff Works:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-consumption/gas-price.htm
In reality, contary to your statement, gas prices ber bid of barrel of oil doesn’t truly factor into the final price of petro products. The current inventories produced on hand and ammount shipped do. Biddings on Crude Oil is the equal of Gold Value, it is only a fraction of the costs of the end good. Federal and State Taxation policies in the focus of Energy Consumption greatly factor into American Fuel prices more so than market bidding on Crude as there are other supplies of Oil outside of the bidding market for Crude for Companies to acquire and refine up to including internal acquistion and processing. State Laws also factor into the price as different States and Cities within the State have a “blend” law which dictates the Octane and chemical composure of the Gasoline consumed for cars, which can spike prices up by 20 cents alone before taxes are applied. And finaly there is the Demand for the good, which in winter time the demand shifts generaly to heating oils which means quick retrofit of reinferies to make oils and a decrease in gasoline supplied. The Demand, either way is high, the supply is purposely made short when in reality Oil wells (even with our consumption rate) won’t disappear for another 150 years.
Rasmussen . . . the guy who was a paid pollster for Bush? That Rasmussen? Yeah, there’s a nice independent source of information for ya!
It’s funny . . . this thing started out as a discussion about how Dems were “dropping like flies” with retirements from the House, the Senate, and the goivernor seats. Then I point out the following facts:
Out of 178 House Republicans, 14 are retiring — 7.9%
Out of 256 Democratic House members, 10 are retiring — 3.9%
Out of 40 GOPer Senators, 6 Senate Republicans are retiring — that’s 15%
2 Democrats out of 58 are retiring — 3.4%
In the states, 3 Democrats have opted against reelection to governorships out of the 27 seats held by Dems — 11%
Of the 23 GOPers, 4 are leaving — 17%
* * * * *
If the GOPers were an army, they would be in full retreat mode!
Rasmussen has been a Pollster well before Bush, Jr. was even considering being a Governor…
And a Tactical Retreat is not something to laugh about. In History, almost every single time a hostile force gives quick chase to a taticaly retreating force, that hostile force generaly suffers massive loses to a regrouped and reinforced opposition in a new battlefield that does not allow application of the hostile force’s tactics.
Just to clarify the billy bob, Chicago lawyer living in Cleveland, confusion. The association with Chicago comes from personal info freely divulged by him mid Nov 2009 stating: “…Me . . . I’m just a simple attorney with a degree from a certain law school on the South Side of Chicago, practicing management side litigation.”
If we are left with the impression that he still resides in Chicago, it is of his own accord – whether by omission, or a genuine lack in our “need to know” status.
I care not. Where ever billy bob chooses to practice under his current firm spanning Ohio and Chicago – and I assure you I don’t care where that is – he is… and still remains … a South Side Chicago lawyer practicing in a different state. You simply move your practice, your approach and your ideology right along with you. Your roots remain founded in your education and beliefs. billy bob’s comments here do little but substantiate that you can move the man to Ohio, but you can’t move Chicago Alinsky’ite out of the man. This also holds true when you view the Chicago style, bully pulpit politics practiced on those that disagree, emanating from the WH today.
So in the future, if you wish to refer to him as a “Cleveland lawyer” instead… feel free. Technically that is correct, until he moves his practice and associations. . Emotionally? Pure Chicago.
@B-Rob said:
I believe I have just done that in my post above, billy bob…. unless, of course, you commuted to your law school classes at U of Chicago Law School from another state.
Don, your resort to name callling only shows how small a brain you have. Communist? That’s the best you can come up with?
Don, answer one question:
Why didn’t the GOP, when it had all the power, solve the problems I laid out in my post at 81, above?
You have a few choices of explanations, I guess. Either they thought there was no problem, or they thought the problem was not important enough to address. At any rate, the GOP did NOTHING to address the problem. 30 bills after the fact is not impressive. Why didn’t they get all jazzed up and energized when they had the numbers to do something about the problem? Why weren’t they holding town hall meetings and going on talk radio championing their conservative approaches to the problem?
Look, some of you here think there is no problem. Fine. Whatever. But the vast vast majority of Americans simply disagree with you. That is why 60 members of the Senate and a similar percentage of the House and a president elected with 350+ electoral votes and the most votes ever garnered in a presidential election (winning formerly red North Carolina, Virginia, etc.) — they did what the GOP refused to do — address the problem.
As I said before, I will not view him nor treat him as a professional. I may be an amature in the paralegal realm, but I am fully aware of Courtroom mannerisms and behaviors and B-Rob has expressed very little if any form of manners an Attorney would hold inside and outside a courtroom. Infact his posting habits mirror that of a childlish troll who plagues a typical Video Game Forum (God knows I’ve had to deal with that rabble, being a former Forum Moderator) which highly contradicts his claims. Unless he can prove he is able to legaly practice in Ohio or Illionis, I hold doubt on his claims. If memory serves me right, he would have to get his B.A.R. in Ohio to even remotely practice which makes going to Chicago totally pointless to reference… I could be mistaken.
Hell, Jack Thompson of Florida had his B.A.R. revoked due to the same behavioral patterns B-Rob is expressing.
Mata, from 1990 to 1993 I lived and went to law school in Chicago . . . on the South Side. Hence Mike’s America referring to me as a “South Side shyster”, etc.
From 1993 to this very day, I have lived in Cleveland. Incidentally, when I met Antonin Scalia back in law school, he spoke fondly of my town, since that is where he started his career. As did noted conservative shill Larry Elder, who is a friend of friends of mine. Small world . . . .
I never said I live in Chicago NOW; but I did live there before. Anyone who inferred that I live there now, did so on their own. That does not make me a “flip flopper”; it makes them in error. Is all . . . .
As for the Alinsky . . . whatever . . . I see when you cons are beaten down by the facts, you like to throw out names that I guess is supposed to make me cringe . . . like Alinsky or George Soros. I find it amusing, actually. Because whenever someone throws out something totally unrelated to the subject, that is when you know you have them whipped. Like my ex’s friend in an argument with her boyfriend about the absence of “breakfats meats” with a Sunday repast:
Dude: How can you have breakfast without breakfast meats?!
Elaine: At least I don’t have five kids out of wedlock!
Similarly, when I point out the logical errors of saying Dems are “dropping like flies” when they represent a fraction of the GOPers who are turning biotch and running from the election fight, your mention of Saul Alinsky creates a similar “w.t.f.?” kind of reaction.
B-Rob,
The, “Lawyer,” from Clevecago, you are calling someone else a liar. That is funny. Try arguing in the arena of ideas, and stay away from insults you Acorn dolt. Why is it, when someone suggests that the federal tax load is too high, you suggest cutting esential services? I can think of a lot of useless gov. spending to eliminate before we get down to road repair. The States and local counties pay for these things also. If you are from Ohio, I am sure you have heard of ODOT. By the way, nobody from Cleveland refers to any geography as the South Side. There is an East Side, West Side, Parma and Strongsville and all of the other South Suburbs. My point, if you were able to comprehend such things, is that gas prices fluctuate daily, and are in no way an indication of the Zero’s success as POTUS.
As for yur personal tone, since you went there, intercourse yourself.
Your, “Facts” are mostly spun opinions hailing from blogs that support your views and when following the dirt trail they end up being backed by a weak wikipedia entry of the matter and not even acredited by a true source of information such as a news paper or hard publishing… Hardly something to brag about.
Irons –
I point out the obvious:
If 4% of Dem major office holders retiring means Dems are “dropping like flies”, then what does 10% of GOPer office holders retiring mean?
From a futures perspective, so many GOPers heading for the hills means that they think things will be worse for them if they run; it means more GOPers are spooked than Dems.
You can call it a “tactical retreat” if you want. But it looks to me like they are running scared!
And your facts are data collected from the previous 6 months. This is not true reflections of the current situation. I am an Engineering and Business student, poll data is typicaly a lagging indicator due to how long the material is collected. If you are an Attorney you would know that little piece of information by de facto due to your studies in the required sociology class. As of now, Congressional Districts’ constitugents are aggresively spamming many Senators and Congressmen of the Democrat Party with blunt statements they will not be voted back into office. This is hardly the work of the Tea Party group you so wishfuly want to fail. These are real Americans who have not been propperly Represented by the people they ellected and are putting forward the message that the pinkslip to the Encumbents facing re-ellection could very well be see the pinkslip by being displaced by a new canidate.
Flyovercountry, you lied and you got caught. I used U.S. government historical charts to prove you were full of “it”, not wikipedia.
Your Cleveland geography lesson was interesting but not germane to anything I am aware of.
I asked you a simple question: if you cut the gas tax, where is the f*cking money going to come from to keep the roads in decent shape? It is the simple point Obama made when McCain and Hillary were running around stupidly calling for a cut in the tax. It showed that neither one of them were serious, though. And both were punished accordingly by the election gods.
Cons love to cut taxes; they just refuse to think about the consequences of those actions. The 2001 and 2003 tax cuts were sold with b.s. “dynamic scoring” where presto chango money was going to fall out of the sky if taxes were cut, and the spending would keep increasing. Guess what? We got deficits instead.
There is no free lunch, cons. Didn’t Bush doubling the national debt in about six years time teach you guys anything?
I gotta go . . . football game is coming on. See ya! And just remember, folks: if you can;’t run with the big dogs, best stay on the porch.
Sources please.
@B-Rob, Communist, Socialist, Pinko, Red, Marxist, Lying POS
I’ll try to add to the moniker each time Rob.
The majority of americans 85% are content with their health care.
The majority of americans do not want to see Obamacare passed I don’t see that as disagreement.
Actually they bought into the lies of Obama and the misinformation of the MSM. Obama never did campaign on health care reform. Imagine that! Now that their eyes have been opened, we will experience a sea changein 2010.
You can live in your lies the rest of us see the bullshit for the crap it truly is.
So, let me get this right he slams Bush for increasing the national Debt in Six Years but gives a personal pass on Obama for praticaly trippling it in only a Year’s span?
@B-Rob:
Yep. It sure did.
It taught us that no matter how bad Bush was for spending, Obie and the gang are much, much worse.
Another uncomfortable graphic for you:
What was your point again?
@B-Rob, communist, socialist, pinko, red, marxist, lying pos, scumbag
And Obama tripling the national debt in 6 months means what? I gotta hand it to you B-Rob, even my pet rock wouldn’t be so stupid as to post that kind of bullshit as an argument for their case.
The thing is, the Republican members who are retiring aren’t doing so for the same reasons that Dodd and Dorgan are retiring for. The reason why both Dodd and Dorgan are choosing to retire is because it looks like their hopes of being reelected aren’t going to come true, just as the original post had stated. Besides, a good chunk of the Republicans retiring have little to fret about. The odds of them being replaced by another Republican are pretty good.
Ryan does bring up a good point. Most of the retiring Republicans already have a canidate they are politicaly backing and those canidates are running pretty strong in their communities and are being back by the Tea Party groups. Dodd and Dorgan are caught in a serious of dilemas that will hinder their ablity to get voted back into power, Dodd’s case being the AIG connections him and his Wife have.
“There is no free lunch, cons. Didn’t Bush doubling the national debt in about six years time teach you guys anything?”
I was pretty sure that Congress was the one that controlled spending. Anyway, the national debt of this country has been reaching new heights each fiscal year even before the Republicans took the Congress, what have the Democrats learned then? Are they learning anything now?
I’ve tried to highlight that Congress was the holder of responsiblity on such issues Ryan, but B-Rob keeps using the typical cliched action of blaming the Executive branch when that part of the Federal Government in focus of Domestic concerns.
@B-Rob, now why would I think you would “cringe” at the mention of either Alinsky or Soros? Instead, I would believe… from your comments… you revere them. BUt it’s nice to see that when you’re cornered by facts, you resort to group/class personal assault… as in “you Cons… etc etc etc”.
Let’s get something straight… I admire nothing about Alinksy. Community organization based on exploitation of people’s fears and personal bias to gain political and policy power is possibly the second lowest of the low. The first low would be, of course, the lawyers who profit from the same.
Personally, I’d love to be in a room with you and Elder plus Scalia. I’d find that highly entertaining, as would they. You see, I don’t like what you advocate for this nation. And I also know neither do they.
But I also recognize that humans are made up of difference facets. I’m not totally blind to your career and chosen legal expertise. I suspect there are some cases you have either been involved in either as a brief contributor, or perhaps a front line trial lawyer, that we may agree on what you see as “justice”. But then, as a lawyer, you aren’t supposed to have an opinion about your clientele in order to serve their contracted representation.
I have commented several times here that, when I see your comments and methods of blog “prosecution”, you are predictable and somewhat inadequate. When you, yourself, are whupped via facts, you resort to personal “you Cons” attacks. And then, again when whupped, you do exactly that which you accuse me… or others… of… i.e.
Perhaps that may be why you have willingly led the thread on a merry chase thru gas prices, gas taxes, national debt, and bashing the truly despicable GOP when they were behaving almost as badly as YOUR Congress members and YOUR POTUS today.
Did you think we would not notice? Suggestion… don’t engage in high stakes poker games with observant players…..
As far as I’m concerned, you have only one viable statement on this thread. And that is addressing percentages of retirees from both parties.
Sans a specific list, and being a firm believer that I haven’t seen more than a handful of genuine conservatives operating under the Republican ticket in a decade, my question to you would be this….
Figures are lies, and only liars figure. The reality lies in the specifics of each individual retiree. The numbers of GOPers retiring, if your sources are correct, are a higher percentage of a minority figure. That is true. But the real question is, how many of those “GOPers” retiring are RINOs with little chance of being re’elected in their district because of their voting records?
But I detect not a bone of genuine curiousity in you to delve into the truth behind the numbers. Tell you what.. you supply a list of those GOPers, and I’ll supply the links to their voting records. Then we can see *what* is retiring… a Dem wrapped in the GOP colors, or a conservative GOPer.
I’m not much of a party person myself. There’s more than a few of us here on that point. So I don’t care about “R v D” in elections. I care about fiscal responsibility (of which we’ve seen none from either party in decades…), minimal to no federal intrusion into our private lives, and not “remaking America” into a Euro-socialist country merely to have a government take over of 1/6th of our economy. And considering your corporate connection background, I have to wonder just why you sanction this yourself… unless it’s just some power play for control. After all, the “have nots” have less chance under a social justice democracy to become the power player you and your POTUS have become under that ugly America you both so wish to change.
@ Mike
You’re just embarrassed because either 1. You don’t watch Hannity, or 2. You did watch, but didn’t notice his faux pas.
Some of us out here pay attention, my friend.
@B-Rob:
Wow.
Talk about someone bein’ outta their element:
“Highest Level of Federal Receipts in History”…….
View at EasyCaptures.com
Sort of funny to hear you make this argument. ‘Tis the Dims who are constantly talking about how increasing the tax on cigarettes/tobacco will drive down usage of the product while, at the same time, tying funding for their pet projects etc directly to tobacco tax dollars that, under the laws of economics, and their very own theories, will dry up due to wait for it….higher taxes.
So, which is it?
Do higher taxes produce lower demand or not?
Finally, there’s this gem:
What numbers would those be?
Specifics please.
You were mercilessly pummeled yesterday regarding your economics claims.
I sure hope you’re good at baking a pound cake because, thus far, your economic, political, and legal analyses have been less than stellar and, dare I say it, unimpressive.
@John Cooper: I do watch Hannity. But I have better things to do than get all offended by any faux pas he might make.
So, are you going to boycott?
Be sure to catch Peggy Noonan’s op-ed in the WSJ today:
@John Cooper: Sean Hannity describes himself as a conservative first, a Republican second. I don’t know why he would use the term “Tea Bag movement” I agree with his ideas on a lot of things but I don’t like watching him because he seems too “intense or angry to me”. He is always smiling, but it is his voice. I feel like he is almost shouting all the time, and I can’t handle that kind of delivery. So for me with Hannity, it is his style that turns me off more than his ideas. He does define himself as a conservative.
However my only guess as to why he would use the term is to turn it around and to make it positive rather than negative so that the term loses its power to offend. However I don’t like the term especially when it is used by commentators such as Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow to turn it into a frat joke. By the way that frat joke was always offensive and said more about the frat boys who used it than the recipient.
This is an add on because I didn’t see John Coopers response just above, so I want to reply to it. Peggy Noonan is one of my favorite commentators. I like her reasonableness and her style. She is dead on. A republican vitory would force Obama to the Center. It may be his best chance for reelection. However, if they forget their main party themes of what they stand for, and they start acting like the Democrats in power, their victory will be for naught.
I am a conservative first, a Republican second. However I find myself becoming strongly intrigued by the Tea Party Movement. However I am not totally aboard there because I want to see more of what they will be about before I make a decision.
@MataHarley:
I know that all but two Reps are leaving to compete for higher office and Radanovich in California is leaving due to his wife’s illness, but, he’s leaving a solid red seat.
Senator Bonds, R-Mo announced his retirement quite awhile ago, he’s just getting old. I’ve seen him on the talk show circuit and he doesn’t look well so, it may be health related. There’s another 7 term Repub, can’t remember his name or state, is leaving because he’s been in public office since 72 and just wants to retire. Don’t know about the rest, but, they aren’t getting run out of office due to Obama policies, Countrywide(Dodd/Dorgan), taking funding from airport screening and handing it to unions(Dodd), ACORN, SEIU, the Freddies, economy, jobs, etc.
But, the numbers are meaningless, this is an off year election and the opposing party always pick up seats during a president’s first term, GWB is the only president in years and years where that didn’t hold true. Then when you factor in the mood of the public, which took out Dodd and Dorgan, Lincoln will be gone and Landreau is facing a recall petition, Nelson-NE is in trouble, Reid is in trouble, etc., whoever put together those percentages were doing it for spin. Someone fell for it.
A couple of weeks ago a Dem polster was on FOX saying that Dodd was hearing it from the DNC, his polling was so bad they wanted someone in there that could save the seat, immediately, Blumenthal appears. And, that’s the dem strategy for 2010. Sacrifice their players to get what they want and dangle some shiny new faces to replace them. Hopefully the voters are smarter than that, even in Massachusetts, Brown might pull it off. Voting in more dems will mean the total distruction of this country and a sad future for our grandchildren.