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14 Nov
Bow Wow! Obama Does it Again
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Saturday, November 14th, 2009 at 11:12 am | 325 views
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I read somewhere where it was noted that the ‘Bama Bow’ was not reciprocated by the Emperor or his wife. They understand protocol and what a bow signifies! I’m sure O does, too, but is still going to try to appease as many nations as possible–except, of course, the majority of Americans he’s supposed to be representing.
It’s actually worse than this…
I’ve been to Japan many many times, and after going many times as engineer-to-engineer, I was slated to meet with the muckety-mucks. Prior to meeting with high-ranking government officials, heads of industry, and the Emperor’s representative, they sent me to Japanese “Charm School” where we took a week to learn “how to act”.
Bowing-class was two of those days.
The deep bow is only done (even in Japan) by children to the very old, and teachers, upon first introduction, (or after a long absence), and the religious. The religious only do it in front of deities, and the Emperor.
In meeting a person of “higher status” one bows only very slightly more than him (always a “him”). This in practice means a head-dip, and 2-3 degrees of hip-movement more than his, WHILE KEEPING EYE CONTACT AT ALL TIMES, and never bowing more than 10 degrees or so. One terminates this with a slow blink, then rising, then a release of the grasp with a final, small shake of the hand all in one, smooth movement.
To a woman who is of higher status, one dips the head, and blinks slowly, with a soft, fingers-only grasp.
Only children are expected to avert the eyes during a bow, but the religious also will, during ceremony. Subsequent direct eye to eye contact is fleeting and rare during all conversations with anyone, as too much (as Americans are used to doing) denotes that you are viewing them with suspicion, and possibly scorn.
To those of equal status or position, eyes are met, hands are grasped, and a simultaneous 5-degree bow/head dip is done, along with the other nuances included. This is what Obama should have done even at his most reverential. It is what the Emperor was ready and willing to do, and he would have thought very highly of Obama for doing it. Watch films of Bush doing it, for a perfect example.
Then there is this:
ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
This, and this alone should have been forefront in his mind, but we all know he sees our country as a pox upon the planet, with him more important than her.
I would just add that the Japanese consider the blacks to be an inferior race. Obama reinforces this — dare I call it “racism” — by his extremely deferential bow to the Japanese emperor. It’s time for the Obama Administration to ditch the Cliffs’ Notes version of protocol.
Fact of the matter is everyone IS superior to 0zer0. He diminishes the office he is supposedly representing.
Mr. Narcissistic thinks he is above all living creatures and the faux humble, bama bow isn’t fooling anyone. He is one sick puppy.
To SoCal Chris
PLEASE, PLEASE do not use “Bama Bow”!! “BAMA” is the number 1 college football team in the country. Bear Bryant would roll over in his grave if he heard that.
Final thought – We never lower our flag to another country or person, and our President should never bow to anyone under any circumstances.
Harvey, my complete and utter apologies!! Alabama most certainly doesn’t deserve that disrespect! And, definitely far be it from me to insult Bear Bryant! (and, I’m serious!) My sports fan aunt would probably have me go out and find a switch for that one.
When tempted to say “Bama”, I will from now on borrow Monica Crowley’s term of endearment for Obama and simply say “the Bama”. I know it’s dangerously close to the other nickname, but is that enough removed from “Bama”, the great football team?
THIS IDIOT SITTING IN OUR WHITE HOUSE BOWS BEFORE EVERY ONE,,,,HE REPRSENTS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,,,,,WE BOW TO NO ONE,THE ONLY BOW WE DO IN AMERICA IS WHEN WE PRAY TO GOD,,,,,
This is jumping the shark. This Obama is a complete and utter FAIL. Not only do we have to see him or hear of him EVERY freakin’ DAY, but he continues to do stuff like this. I hope the WWII vet dems that voted this guy in are seeing what just happened. The US president bows to the very man that lead Japan against us in War. I don’t care what’s happened since, this is disgraceful.
You people just will not give Obama a break. This photo was obviously out of context. You must have the audio that went with it. It was “I mean Damn, Emperor, that is one hell of a shine on those little Emperor shoes!”
@Patvann: Thanks for the background. I think it is too late to send Obama to charm school.
And that reminds me, remember how respectful he was when the National Anthem was playing in Iowa back in 2007?
Comparison of bows by Heads of State
Does someone look completely out of place here? Just saying.
http://domania.us/Oaccess/OBAMA/O-JapanBow.gif
Do you think his handlers had him see pictures of how to greet other heads of states or is he just winging it badly?
@this is how you bow: Good find! I’ve embedded the image below:
@Mike’s America: You don’t have to go back to 2007 to see ObamaMao disrespect the colors/anthem. Gateway Pundit posted a photo on Thursday, November 12, titled “Oops! … Obama Forgets to Do Something Again” that shows the same thing happening recently. Just like the 2007 shot, he’s covering his crotch with his hands. The only difference is that now the whole world knows he’s not a patriot and he doesn’t have any balls.
@Toothfairy: I missed that! Thanks… Here’s the link:
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2009/11/oops-obama-forgets-his-to-respect-the-flag-again/
Who is handling this guy? You would think by now they would have found someone who could explain things to him. Hard to believe anyone could screw up this many times so fast! It’s like a SNL skit everyday with this administration.
Hey, anybody remember those really cute pictures of George W. Bush holding hands with the Saudi king? No? Check them out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjtfaLtLT7s Did I mention that 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis? Did I mention that none of them were Iraqi? Looks a lot like treason to me.
Nice try, Jerry.
Mike’s America said, “I’m surprised Obama didn’t apologize for the U.S. winning WW2!”
How do you know he didn’t?
Think its about time I send this loser my old Kneepads
You see folks, when the National Anthem is being played, Obama has some very good reasons for not saluting or placing his hand over his heart…
-He has no heart, and he thinks they are playing it for him.
#2 is right on. Lived in Tokyo for three years. A slight head tip is a sign of honoring the person, as a firm hand shake is in America. I think President O’Dumbo just can’t rid himself of the habit of the ‘on the knees/bend over’ position. Rumor has it he had lots of practice in Chicago while smoking crack. At least one guy will swear to it in court.
This type of behavior is inhereted. Is that from his mother or father side of the family?
An international embarrassment.
Thanks PV, this is interesting info. I learned a little of the Japanese customs of respect in the kendo and jiu jitsu dojos, there it was respect of the the sensei and of your opponent.
Funny how Obama wants to humble himself to the point of looking like an insignificant peasant, yet during the national anthem he wants to look like he has a couple of watermelons for huevos. Oh excuse me! I assume it is politically incorrect to mention Obama and watermelons in the same sentence; but damn it, he is the one who keeps re-enforcing that step and fetch it image.
Now that’s a Teabagger!
@Skookum: I think the watermelon reference is O.K. Just don’t include any mention of fried chicken along with it.
I don’t see the problem here??? What’s all this beefing??? I mean, the man SHOULD have bowed!! If fact, he didn’t Bow LOW ENOUGH!! He, after all, IS “beneath” the Emperor, and all other Heads of state for that matter!!!! Now, as soon as we elect a PRESIDENT….. i’ll expect the kind of dignified attitude that most here are in arms over!!!! Until then, as long as we have , well, uh, er, well, what we have…… expect more of the same.. LOTS more!!! Good news is, only 3 and a fudge more yrs to go!! (Sorry, in this case, best “good news” I could come up with)!
M A that was good, I nearly choked on my cabernet and crackers, thanks, I needed that to face a hard day tomorrow. Unlike the insinuation of the Liberal Lemming, I don’t do Cheetos, strictly a Wheat Thins and cab man. Humor is my addiction, keep them coming my patriot friends.
@Jerry Bowles:
Thanks to Obama’s decision to bring KSM to NYC for fun and games and now this pathetic display in Japan, the words “liberal” and “pussy” are forever intrinsically linked.
Another thing I forgot to mention, was that those who DO do the deep bow are NOT to touch the other person at the same time. The hands are to be lightly placed on the side/front of ones own thighs.
Idiot even screws up a screw-up.
He also made the gaff of trying to get the Empress to go through the door first. If you watch her face and eyes carefully during all this, she looks bemused, then confused, then at the end, embarrassed to look up. She was embarrassed FOR him, (which is very Japanese). I’ve seen that look before, fortunately not aimed at me.
My initial struggle was being 6’5″ and 225lbs with a goatee, as I scared the hell out of kids on the trains, and old ladies in stores. A smile and a Ahhhnold imitation (from one of their commercials) made the kids relax, and a straight-down-gaze with head-bow for the old-ones usually did the trick. (Hands on thighs)
By the third trip, the facial hair came off, the contacts were swapped for glasses, and I spent too much money on damn fine Italian suit. Then I looked little less like a “scary big cowboy man” as one of the Japanese secretaries giggled out one day, and more like “nice business man”.
And yes, he has a building full of protocol specialists on staff. It was one of those people who came out to teach us, (she was a Japanese citizen) and we used the government-supplied booklet written by the State Department. That, and I pay attention to the social interactions of people wherever I’ve gone, simply because it fascinates me. I’ve filled 4 passbooks up with stamps, and have been in over 30 countries on business/pleasure, and another 10 or so while in the Navy before that.
Here’s the next thing to look for…His gift. One ALWAYS brings a gift of ones travels, NOT a gift of oneself, unless one is a close friend, and nothing brash, bold, or bragging. Food samples from one’s country is nice also. I always brought M&M’s for the secretaries and technicians, and they would dust off a 2 lb bag in 5 days between the 10 of them. One also presents the gift personally, and not through an underling.
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Our Dear Reader is going to take a week of showers to wash away.
@Patvann:
“My initial struggle was being 6′5″ and 225lbs with a goatee, as I scared the hell out of kids on the trains, and old ladies in stores.”
Oh no! Look out Tokyo! Here comes Patzilla! (dubbing unsynched)
These gaffs by a man that claims foreign policy expertise by saying “Pahk-key-stohn” are no surprise but no less humiliating. Obama is an unmitigated embarrassment.
I shudder to think of what the world thinks of us now. They used to respect us, but now laugh at us. what a damn shame!
Madalyn
Obama isn’t our “first Pacific President” either.
Nixon won that title 40 years ago.
http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/our-first-pacific-president/
Ahhh, give him a break. He was just checkin’ the shine that whitey gave him just before he got off the plane.
with so many peoples in the world trying to become american they have a mind of admiration for America the brave and where the people can speak so freely about good and bad,thank you.
Can you imagine the rightwing of America mocking FDR like this when we were at war ? I can’t
#36: They did not have too – they especially had no reason — not like this POS continuously provides
@John ryan: Oh like you all of a sudden care about how the President gets treated! A bit too late on that one pops!
And as for your belated recognition that we are “AT WAR” I’d say it’s about time. Perhaps now you can put these “terrorist” attacks in proper perspective and not be so eager to blame Hasan’s murderous rampage on army fatigue.
THE WORLD ONCE HAD GREAT FEAR OF OUR COUNTRY,THIS IDIOT SITTING IN OUR WHITE HOUSE IS MAKING US THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD,,HE THINKS HE HAS TO BOW,SELL US OUT,OR APOLOGIZE FOR OUR MILITARY THAT THAT HAVE SHED PRECIOUS BLOOD TO HELP OTHER NATIONS GAIN THEIR FREEDOM,FROM DICTATORS, HE HAS BECOME THE FIRST APOLOGIST IN CHIEF,AND HOPEFULLY OUR LAST ONE,
@John ryan
Maybe because FDR actually wanted to WIN the war. The rightwing certainly fought his effort to stack the Supreme Court, and was against the internment of Japanes-Americans.
Any other stupid statements?
@jo: I believe Obama, through his actions, has created a new word. Opologist: One who apologizes for his country of residence, culture and people. One who apologizes for the people who pay his salary (one who bites the hand that feeds him).
Frankly, I’m always surprised when he doesn’t get down on all fours and lick their shoes.
President oBOWma.
@Jerry Bowles:
Is al Qaeda at war with the Saudis or not?
Did you also mention none of those who attacked us at Pearl Harbor were German?
What’s your point, again?
@John ryan:
FDR knew we were at war. Can you imagine if BHO knew we were at war as well? Instead, he’s on his grand Asia Tour while Afghanistan awaits a decision.
What was your point again?
As for the topic at hand, this is where I rile up my fellow conservatives and say we’re only making ourselves look bad by making this into such a politically partisan and petty issue. I agree with Amy Proctor on this.
Btw, I think this was the bigger flub.
@American Voter You are just so clever. President oBOWma. Laugh? I thought my pants would never dry. @johnryan As I recall, the Germans did attack some of our allies. Iraq hadn’t attacked anyone since we kicked them out of our BFF Kuwait’s oil patches under Bush the Elder. And Kuwait, as we all know was eternally grateful to us and has transformed itself into a real flower of democracy in the Arab world. If the Saudis are at war with al Qaeda, why does most of its funding still come from there? @Madalyn All the polls indicate that the world likes and respects us much more now that we’re not acting like a belligerent schoolyard bully. The biggest joke of all is that the whole trillion dollars down the rathole and counting Iraq debacle was an attempt by chicken hawks like Cheney to demonstrate, in the wake of 9/ll, that we are too tough to mess with. What it demonstrated instead is the limits of military power to make the world more like us.
@Wordsmith
You can’t rile us up, cuz we love ya too much, and we know where your loyalties are!
If this was the only thing he’s done that been of a submissive nature, I too, might give it a pass.
But it seems every day he’s either rolling over on his back for someone, or dis-respecting someone, that in either case is completly upside-down in what would be “normal” for any and all American president’s of the past, of either party.
The fact the we KNOW the department of protocol within the State dept gave him every hint known pertaining to “how to act” (hell even the “cowboy” never did anything close to this) shows us that he thinks he’s above it all.
And we think he’s a freakin commie.
Amy always has some good points, but I can assure you that her bowing all over Asia made her look pretty goofy to the folks there, and as I also spent a huge amount of time in South Korea, (more time than I did Japan) I can assure her and you, that there are differences. Not to mention the “head-dip” that every one does in Korea and Japan vs the deep bow-wilst hand-shaking btween heads-of-state.
It is also wrong for her to compare her experience in a Korean dress shop, vs the leader of the free world meeting the Emperor of Japan.
The populace of both countries are slightly bemused when us round-eyes do our dipping, but once the level of contact is above tourist or worker-drone, it becomes VERY important to the Asian person involved.
Aaaaand we think Obama’s a freakin commie.
@tfhr Speaking as one who has been a New Yorker for 40 years and as one of the many locals to see and smell and feel up close the outcome of that terrible day, I am proud of my country for showing faith in our criminal justice system and demonstrating to the world that justice for all means exactly that. The power of that simple idea is stronger than all the armies of the world combined and I’m always surprised that my conservative friends don’t seem to believe in it very much.
My view has always been that 9/11 was a spectacular crime committed by a small band of international criminals who got incredibly lucky on a perfect day in the Northeast–one of the few days of the year when all the planes departed on time It was never an ‘invasion’ or “act of aggression” by a foreign power (like, Pearl Harbor). There were no governments involved, no armies, no secret intelligence agencies. It should have been treated as a crime from day one, with the perpetrators tracked down and brought to justice (or killed if they resisted). The entire world stood ready to help us apprehend the killers. But, the Bush administration was already lobbying for an excuse to invade Iraq and show the world how tough we are and 9/11 provided that excuse, although there was no connection to Iraq.
I have served on New York juries many times. There is no chance that any of these guys will ever walk free; if they were by some miracle acquitted new charges would be filed immediately. It is more than poetic justice that they will be tried by New Yorkers–against whom this monstrous crime was committed–a few blocks from the scene of murder. To my conservative friends I would say: Have a little faith in the American system; justice will be done.
@Jerry Bowles said: “My view has always been that 9/11 was a spectacular crime committed by a small band of international criminals who got incredibly lucky on a perfect day “
Yeah, it’s no big deal right? It’s not like these monsters haven’t killed tens of thousands of innocent people ALL OVER THE WORLD and are trying to get a nuclear bomb to kill us by the hundreds of thousands….
Oh wait… THEY ARE!
Ok, I’ll bite. What tens of thousands of innocent people are you talking about? Looking at the other incidents that might plausibly be al Qaeda and not some other group of terrorists with different causes, we have the Cole bombing (very high tech, two guys in a row boat), maybe Spain and London, Bali…what else? And I’m not saying those weren’t terrible, just that they were not “tens of thousands” of innocent people killed. Are you conflating the Taliban with al Qaeda–they are not the same people. The Taliban is one side of a civil war in Afghanistan with the drug lords like Karzai’s brother, propped up by us, on the other. And, what evidence do we have that anyone remotely related to al Queda has tried to obtain a nuclear bomb? Can you cite a source, please. And don’t mention, Iran, they’re not even Arabs. And, btw, you can’t build a nuclear bomb with a home chemistry kit.
@Jerry Bowles: Ever heard of Iraq?
You don’t think all those people dying from car bombs are all the result of sectarian violence do you?
And you left quite a few other terrorist attacks off your very , VERY short list.
Do you even remember the attacks on our embassies in Africa?
There’s more of course:
I guess all those were just dumb luck too? Nothing to worry about… no big deal….
@Jerry Bowles #44:
Wahhabism has strong roots in Saudi Arabia, and you have appeasers and sympathizers to the extremists; but it also remains true that the Saudis have also aligned with the U.S. against the common threat of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. This is also happening and this.
The Saudis through the 80′s appeased jihad extremists through funding, so long as their attention was turned away from attacking Saudi Arabia. Steve Coll’s Ghost Wars:
Support pretty much ended for bin Laden’s group (at least officially) once bin Laden began ranting against the United States and its presence on the Arabian peninsula (he was snubbed by the Saudi government from helping evict Saddam out of Kuwait and told foreign presence would leave soon after). He began funding Saudi dissidents. The Saudis stripped bin Laden of his citizenship in 1994, exiled, and seized bin Laden’s personal fortune.
bin Laden is at war with the House of Saud.
Re: Your position regarding Iraq.
Here is the difference between Saddam and the Saudi government: The former offered not one act of cooperation in the war on terror; the Saudis have. They are a target of al Qaeda plots; and in return, the Saudi government has been fighting for its own survival against Islamic terror, killing and capturing al Qaeda operatives and arresting and convicting thousands without trial.
Jerry,
The “world” doesn’t have America’s best interest at heart. They, like all nations, act according to their own self-interests. And your opinion that America acts like a “belligerent schoolyard bully” is a flawed perspective at best.
The Bush team never said democracy in Iraq or Afghanistan would look like our own. The “tough talk” is over-mythologized by the critics, and occurred on the heels of 9/11. The goal of the Administration wasn’t in seeking retribution but in preventing the next terror attack. Which is why Iraq became part of the GWoT. Yet so many on your side make the fallacious strawman, “Iraq never attacked us on 9/11″. Find me a quote where Bush ever made that argument.
@Jerry Bowles #46:
The problem of Islamic terrorism is larger than just one terror group, al Qaeda. It is more properly the al Qaeda NETWORK and related Islamic terror organizations. And they were not just “lucky”. And it is your desire to only see Islamic terror as a small-scale law enforcement issue that brought terrorism throughout the 90′s to culminate in the events of 9/11.
It is not quite accurate to say there were no governments involved. The Taliban gave safe haven and training grounds to al Qaeda. Saddam was steeped deep in terrorist training and funding activities.
That’s not entirely true. There were many a crocodile tear shed.
You misunderstand the connection and the argument for “why Iraq?”
There was no al Qaeda in Iraq until we invaded and, in fact, we seem to have originally supported the group that became AQ as long as they were aiming their troublemaking at Iran and Jordan. In any event, we knew where they were before the invasion because our CIA was working with them and could have taken them out with a single air strike but someone, suspected to be Dick Cheney, nixed the idea. Nonetheless, an impressive list and I appreciate your gathering it. Still doesn’t add up to “tens of thousands” and many of them are disputable as to who was really responsible, but impressive nonetheless. The problem is that ‘religious radicalism’ is a small, but powerful, force in the Middle East (just as it is here, I might add). al Qaeda has become a “brand,” the Coke-Cola of jihad. It is not a centralized organization with a headquarters and job titles and flow charts; it is a lunatic idea that some people have that God is telling them that killing infidels is a holy thing to do. And, it is not that different from believing that God is telling you to kill abortion doctors. People who get direct message from God need to be watched in all societies.
In any event, we are never going to beat these people into submission and I think the last eight years in Iraq and Afghanistan have conclusively shown that. We can beat them with ideas if we are true to our core principles of being an open and democratic society that believes that all men are created equal.
@Jerry Bowles:
Jerrrrrry……You’re not new here, are you?
Snicker.
Just curious, who besides Dick Cheney and the Christian Jihadists at The Weekly Standard still claims there was? And, did you hear that Bill Ayres and Jeremiah Wright were in the White House?
I almost missed this little gem:
Judge Harold Baer, Jr. disagrees with you.
I know how much you claim to respect the US judicial system. Let’s see how quickly you attempt to poo-poo Hizzoner’s judicial ruling on this matter.
@Jerry Bowles: Do you deny that Al Queda has killed thousands in Iraq?
That’s the point you demanded I inform you on.
Al Queda has killed tens of thousands AROUND THE WORLD and you attempt to dismiss the threat.
What a fool!
I fear Conservatives are making fools of themselves in their desire to fault Obama for everthing. He’s a no-experience novice who makes many blunders, but this really isn’t one of them.
To the question: How did MacArthur treat Hirohito? please tell me we all know the difference between Japan at the time of surrender in WWII and today. The current Emperor said he regrets the war. Japan is now an ally, not an enemy. Of course MacArthur isn’t going to bow to him! That’s absurd.
Exactly what protocol did Obama break? Does it have a number? A name?
I’m an Army wife living in South Korea for the past year and a half (almost). We’ll be here until 2011. Rather than repeating myself, let me just quote myself from my own blog on bowing in the Orient:
Listen, I’m a Reagan Conservative and love watching Obama flub it up, but this is not an issue and we’re being jerks to continue to make a point of out. With all the people I bow to on a daily basis, I think I would probably do a deep bow to the Emperor myself. Obama is trying to tell Japan that we are coming to the table with respect for the Japanese people and respect for your form of government. Let’s not make it more than that. It isn’t.
Now don’t make me defend Barack Obama ever again!
The diplomacy of appeasement does not work. The naivitee of some people is just incredible! We have a leadership in dirty diapers. Can even get the protocols right.
Keep asking what are we going to do for the next three years with these bunch of paranoid lunatics in the White House!
@Amy Proctor: You and I agree on a lot of things. But holding back on dumping on Obama isn’t one of them.
This was the Messiah who promised to solve every problem this country has ever faced and instead he’s a joke.
All you have to do is look at the HUGE switch among Independent voters in Virginia and New Jersey to realize that it isn’t just conservatives who feel that way.
Yes, you can make the case that we should stick to the more serious policy disagreements and not harp on these personal foibles of Obama but where’s the fun in that? Besides, we are now living under the rules for civil political discourse that the left established during the eight years of Bush. I’m not saying we should stoop to their level and advocate defeat of our nation in war, but I also feel that I am not inclined to hold back on legitimate personal criticism of a president.
I respect your desire to take the higher ground and I might join you on that road if I thought for one moment that if we set such a fine example the left would be sure to follow next time a Republican is in the White House.
But when has that ever happened?
Wow… has anyone told the previous defacto head of the GOP/conservatives (per the libs)… Rush Limbaugh…. no wait, it’s Sarah Palin… no wait again!…. that now *all* Conservatives are now lumped into a single voice at the moment Andrew Malcom of the LA Times, Ed Morrissey at Hot Air, and Mike’sA at FA blog on a bow?
sigh…
All I can say is, Amy, welcome back with a comment. Been too long. And Mike’s A? Congrats on the promotion usurping Rush… no, Sarah… no….
As for me? No one speaks for me, and I’m a big C conservative. I don’t need no stinkin’ “head” to be my mouthpiece. It’s called individuals, not class grouping.
A bow isn’t appeasement, if that’s what you’re suggesting. It’s a sign of respect. The Emperor extended his hand which is our custom. They mutually reached out to each other.
Obama’s policy of appeasement is failing everywhere he tries to implement it. There’s no doubt about that. But Japan is an ally, and an important one. They are not Iran, Syria or North Korea.
Can anyone quote what protocol was breached?
LOL! I enjoy dumping on Obama as much as anyone, but I think it brings down ones crediblity to dump using illegitimate reasons. Really, Obama gives us SO MUCH MATERIAL that you have to weed through the most inflammatory stuff to use on your blog. This just isn’t important. I detest Obama but he did nothing wrong. He didn’t sell out America any more than George W. Bush did when he held hands with the Saudi King (Saudi custom) or when Laura Bush wore a head covering in Afghanistan.
As I said, I live in this culture, and bowing is a beautiful sign of humility. I think Obama may have actually done something right for a change.
Look at the Democratic pundits that we like: Juan Williams, that pretty chick on Fox News (blonde hair, can’t remember her name). They’re both liberal Democrats but when Obama is wrong, they criticize him. They have respect among Conservatives becasue they do that. We should do the same thing, not to suck up but to be legitimate. Who’ll believe your arguments if they think you’re being as partisan and biased as the Left?
All I’m saying is that Obama did nothing wrong. When I go into my Korean friends’ homes, I always take my shoes off, I bow to them….. it’s their homes, their culture, and it may not be mine, but I respect what it represents and what it means to them.
I’ll snap a picture the next time I’m downtown at the big Lotte Department store. The greeters are dressed in long red coats and as you enter the parking deck they give you a big deep bow. About the depth that Barack Obama gave to the Emperor. THIS IS ASIA! IT HAPPENS, PEOPLE!!
Hi Amy!
I spent 2 weeks per month for almost 2 years near Osan A/F Base, working with Samsung Corp. I have a feeling you’re near Camp Humphreys. Hope the kimchee agrees with you!
Read back through my posts on this subject (ignore the smartypants stuff) and I think you’ll see why he was not correct in doing this. I’ve had direct State Department training.
I agree that in the larger scope of things, it’s not a big deal. But what the heck, it makes up for the years and years and years of hearing about BushI throwing up, and another choking on a pretzel. It’s our turn to be petty, and the best part is, we have better material being handed to us! They have SNL, and the Daily Show, we have each other.
I think of this as a happy diversion (for us) from all the truly terrible and dangerous stuff he’s been doing. I sure don’t think it make America look bad, but among the diplomatic bunch, he looked like a twit.
As far as what the nutroots think…They can kiss my butt, because if they haven’t cared what we think about the serious stuff, I sure don’t care what they think now when I tease their “sort of like god”. Besides, the left-nutters make themselves look sillier than I ever could make myself look.
It will all pass, as soon as his next screw-up, which will be very soon, I promise.
Give a Hoooahh to your man for me, and if you’re ever near Osan, go have a drink at the Dragon Club for me. It’s above and to the left of the Mickee-dee’s on the main drag out from the front gate. If Harabujee (grandmom) is still waiting tables there, bring her string-cheeze, and your drinks will be doubles.
Keep that man away from the “juicey-girls”!
Judge Baer (a Clinton appointee) heard a case in 2003 shortly after the invasion was launched and relied almost solely for his finding on the testimony of former CIA director James Woolsley, a man who makes uber-Dicks Cheney and Armey look like flaming liberals. No one ever collected a dime and, in fact, the Bush administration requested that the proceedings not go any further. National security, you know. No one beyond Steven Hayes and Dick Cheney still persist in the nonsense that Saddam Hussein was so dumb he was encouraging radical shites to make trouble. In any event, even the Bush administration stopped claiming four years ago there was a relationship between Iraq and 9/11; there wasn’t. No weapons of mass destruction either.
And, Mike, you still have not produced a shred of evidence that al Qaeda has killed “tens of thousands” of people around the world. The whole list you put together above adds up to fewer than 10,000–counting the World Trade Center–and assuming that every one of them was al Qaeda. That’s a lot and it’s terrible but it not TENS OF THOUSANDS.
Note this tidbit from Wikipedia’s entry on AQI: “According to both the July 2007 National Intelligence Estimate and the Defense Intelligence Agency reports AQI accounted for 15 percent of attacks in Iraq. However, the Congressional Research Service noted in its September 2007 report that attacks from al-Qaeda are less than two percent of the violence in Iraq and criticized the Bush administration’s statistics, noting that its false reporting of insurgency attacks as AQI attacks has increased since the “surge” operations began.”
BTW, seen the picture of Nixon bowing to the Emperor yet?
@Jerry Bowles: You want to take a guess how many thousands Al Queda killed in Iraq?
You figure it out then get back to me.
You’re the one who claimed tens of thousands, not me. I’m assuming that you have simply become frustrated at your inability to back that claim up and decided to go snarky. We’ll talk when you’re feeling better. I’m going to bed.
“We never lower our flag to another country or person, and our President should never bow to anyone under any circumstances.”
That is certainly true, but unfortunately, we really don’t have a President right not, just a pretender. The Current Occupant hates this country and is doing everything he can thing of to degrade it on the world stage.
BTW, I find commenting here difficult sometimes. Sometimes my comments disappear or are blocked. Can you lighten the security measures? I’d love to comment here more frequently.
HOOAH..
PatVan, HOOAH. We’re in Daegu, the wonderful city of 2.5 million. Love it here. I was in Osan a few months ago. Great shopping, but my moral compass won’t allow me to buy the knock offs because I know it’s the black market. It’s legit or nothing for me.
It’s not just the kimchi that agrees with me. Bilgogi, bi-bim-bap… its’ awesome. We eat out more than we eat at home. I’ll miss the food more than anything when we leave.
What protocol via your info from the State Dept. did Obama break?
@Jerry Bowles: Jerry, if you are completely unaware of the tens of thousands of Iraqis who have died in various terrorist attacks directed by Al Queda then you should go to bed as you clearly don’t have a clue.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/23/iraq/main4964055.shtml
And NO Jerry, they weren’t all killed by Americans.
Combine that with the thousands and thousands killed on September 11th and other attacks and my claim is proven.
You want to retract your comment or continue to look like an imbecile while suggesting Al Queda just got lucky on 9/11?
@Amy Proctor: Comment security measures are the purview of our lord and master Curt who is playing in Miami at the moment.
As you can see, despite the higher level of security know-nothings like Jerry manage to get through.
@Jerry Bowles:
Of your comments directed to me, all have already been rebutted thoroughly by others in this thread but I do still have a thing or two left to say about your NYC jury trial idea. I was on my way to the Pentagon on 9-11 when the plane hit and I’ve also followed the farcical trial proceedings of Zacarias Moussasoui in Northern Virginia. After tens of millions of dollars were squandered and years of insults and grandstanding by Moussasoui, he’s finally sitting in prison. Considering that he was apprehended here in the United States, there wasn’t much of a choice about trying him here but I think he was allowed to use our system to the advantage of al Qaeda.
There is no reason to bring Khalid Sheik Mohammed to the United States for trial. He is neither an American citizen nor was he captured in the United States. There is no reason that he or his co-conspirators should enjoy the protection of the Constitution. KSM and all of the other terrorists that have been captured around the world do NOT even deserve the various protections granted to them through the misapplication of the Geneva Conventions. Illegal combatants like KSM use vulnerable civilian populations to hide and to target. This tactic ensures that innocent civilians will die or suffer in far greater numbers than if Jihadists observed the laws of land warfare.
To grant Constitutional rights or Geneva Convention protections to terrorists not only gives them a legitimacy they do not deserve but it also does nothing to dissuade Jihadists from directly targeting civilian populations or using them as human shields. With the recent announcement that Obama’s Justice Department intends to try terrorists in US courts, we’ve effectively offered incentives for continued savagery.
Jerry Bowles, have you ever considered that your eagerness to have a show trial in NYC will inspire other animals like KSM to seek the limelight? Do you care? I believe that the WTC conspirators would have received a fair trial at Guantanamo. A military tribunal was deemed adequate for war criminals at Nuremburg, what makes KSM so exceptional for you that he should receive the same rights that you would have as an American citizen? You seem overwrought about whether America is “liked” around the world and for some reason you seem to think a show trial in NYC will achieve this end. I just cannot understand any of that line of thinking but I’ll ask you this: Did the United States’ reputation suffer around the globe because of the Nuremburg trials? What about the lesser known trials conducted for Japanese war criminals?
Instead we’re going to allow NYC to be used as a stage for a lunatic to insult America and the Islamic faith. Please tell me why you think that this will be good and for whom?
@Jerry Bowles #54:
That’s funny….I thought the Weekly Standard was run by Jewish Jihadists…
I don’t have a ready-made grocery list of contacts/links. But links have been long established. What is unclear is the depth of any collaboration. Btw, it is a myth that a “secular” Saddam would not cooperate with committed Islamic terrorists. His ties to Islamic terrorism is documented.
Where did Zarqawi flee to for medical attention (part of the global jihad movement, even if one wants to claim he was not a part of al Qaeda at the time)? Where did many al Qaeda fighters flee to, after their defeat in Afghanistan (wasn’t just Pakistan)? Even before our invasion of both countries, al Qaeda had contact with Iraqi intelligence officers that went beyond pleasantries over tea and truffles.
You need to find some fresher bait to wave in front of us, Jerry.
@Jerry Bowles #63:
Oh, and we here at FA. Check out the Iraqi Perspectives Project. One of Scott’s posts here.
There’s also Mark Eichenlaub’s site, as well as our own Saddam/al Qaeda connection and Saddam’s Documents categories.
News flash: The Bush Administration never made that claim 6 years ago, as part of their case for war.
Do not confuse two different arguments:
“We’ve had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11th … There’s no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties.” –George W. Bush, September 17, 2003
So? How does that delegitimize the decision to invade? Saddam’s responsible for that snafu.
Here’s something Scott wrote up a while back:
Amy and Patvann,
I am still haunted by the smell of kimchee from my year living in Osan and commuting by schoolbus to Yongsan Army Base, while in the 8th grade. It reeked everywhere of it.
@Amy
As precursor, I want to point out that “protocol” is not a law, or a mandate. So in the strictest sense, he can do what ever he wants to do, short of assaulting the poor man. Think of protocol as: “behaviors acceptable to all parties, taking customs, history, and observers into account”.
There are obviously different levels of protocol, such as you’ve seen from the store clerks, and retail/hospitality employees. There is also business protocol, and then there is the one we are focused on in this regard, and that’s the diplomatic sort.
There is a big difference between the three, but retail/hospitality and business are closer together than diplomatic. Diplomatic is really is own ball of wax.
Each country will establish norms that fit the image they wish to convey, and each of these norms are tailored by keeping relationship, history, and goals in mind with each country they are presently communicating with.
Another important impetus, is the customs and norms that we have set for ourselves within the framework of ongoing relationships with the world’s leaders, so as to create a steady and predictable expectation-of-behavior.
So with all that esoteric crap out of the way, lets look at where Obama’s (now two) deep bows have deviated from the norms of our universally accepted protocol…
(It was much, much worse in my eyes, that he bowed to the Saudi King, but I already made fun of him for it, so I won’t go there again.)
1. Since our Founders wrote the words: “All men are created equal”, none of our leaders have been asked, nor expected to bow to anyone, at any time. We will not be asked, because we’ve made it very clear from Washington on up, that we would not view any King or Monarch as a “Superior”. Even though the French were our friends during the revolution, Ben Franklin made it clear that he would not bow to their king under any circumstances, and that set the standard. Fortunately he was loved by the French, and had a way of conveyance that didn’t insult when he stated our intention in this regard.
2. No other President has ever broken this precedent.
3. If Obama (or any other high-ranking official) wished to modify protocol, or simply be a little different, he should have done a great deal of research beforehand. As I pointed out earlier, he did it all wrong, on so many levels that it borders on rude, if not childish. The Japanese are the world’s foremost leader in all things “protocolish”, that his actions are twice as bad, because of where his foux-pas occurred. (The Dutch for eg. aren’t all that into it.)
4.If Obama wanted to change things up a bit, it was his duty to inform his State Department, so that they could accommodate his wishes, and first teach him the correct way (after trying to talk him out of it) and to prepare his hosts. He didn’t, and he ended up looking clumsy, and out of place, much to our right-wing amusement, but deep down, even his supporters cringed, now that this is the second time he’s done such a thing.
5. Because the Japanese are so into custom and protocol, having him surprise his host with such a change, can be seen as very rude. It’s a good thing the Emperor is better at it than Obama, and that he is our friend. The Japanese would never point it out, but it is seen and remembered.
I covered the who, when, and why folks deep-bow in Japan to the Emperor in an earlier post, so you can peruse that if you like. But the biggest thing to remember is how different the bow is used and meant between diplomatic verses retail/business, and the difference between the deep-bow and the head-bob.
Obama should have done exactly what the Emperor was ready to do…A friendly eye-to-eye look, a firm handshake, a tiny 5-degree straight-backed bow, and a small head-bob. These movements combine our two cultures, and that willing mutuality is the best thing in the eyes of the Japanese, and indeed us as well.
(Betcha didn’t expect this long of a response, but I’m kinda into this crap.)
Now can I make fun of him some more, at least until tomorrow?
PV, I have followed this thread all day with my blackberry while working, a long day by the way, both work and the thread. Again, you have nailed the argument, at least in my humble opinion. To continue and try to improve on your response is pointless. Thank you. Well done, well done indeed! Skook.
It’s probably a good thing that there aren’t any nations that practice open mouth french kissing as a formal greeting. Ewww, that’s a picture that I don’t want in my head!
Thank you Skook!
As promised to the talented Amy Proctor (let’s all make it a point to visit her site on a regular basis), I shall now throw my last bomb in this matter at Obama the Geisha.
JAPANESE EMBARRASSED BY ZERO-BLANKO
I can just hear them asking themselves, “How is it possible that America beat us, when they are stupid enough to elect such a fool?”
So, yes, Amy Proctor, this WAS one of his many blunders, made all the more colossal by the fact that it was so public.
when you start to hear voices it is a problem for you do not pin it on the president,thank you.
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Taking idiomatic expressions literally is an example of concrete thinking, and indicates arrested psychological development, which is a well known and prominent feature in the landscape of the Left.
Here’s another…
Japanese fellow overheard in a bar… “the A-bomb I understand. We were at war. But dropping the 0-Bomb on us? That’s a low blow.”
ps – read the article I linked to. I din’t make up the fact taht the Japanese are quite embarrassed by O’Bungler’s bumbling behavior. He really is a clown.
INAPPROPRIATE BOWING JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG
Why do Obma’s supporters continue to do so? And why does the MSM remain silent?
(Rhetorical questions to which informed and honest people already know the answers.)
did you say Obomb well i think there is a japanese way they meant yobombs did they?thank you
Patvann,
You make a nice case; but I am still with Amy’s perspective on this. I fear if we protest all things Obama where he’s damned in our eyes no matter what he does, we become exactly what we detested from the KosKiddies for the last 8 years.
Maybe Obama did break protocol/tradition/decorum (I really don’t see it; the video itself doesn’t look as damning as the photo); but we have to pick and choose our political battles. This one, as far as I can see, is a political loser for conservatives. I’m looking and hearing from friends in the moderate middle and mainstream Democrats, non-committed apolitical independents, and this story is making us all look like a bunch of whackos on the lunatic fringe. It does nothing for the conservative movement to make a molehill like this into a mountain.
I know Mike sometimes says this sort of knitpicking and incivility and BDS-driven sniping served the liberals well, and it’s time we stooped and engaged in the same mud-slinging. But I disagree. Especially in light of MSM that leans majority liberal, able to steer the narrative.
Making an issue of this is a non-winner for our side.
Wordsmith.
As I alluded to before, you’re right that this is a small thing in light of the big things he’s doing.
But this will blow over soon enough, and I sure don’t see it getting much traction with the voters, precisely because as you point out, the MSM controls the narrative. With us hard-core political junkies on the right, I see it lasting for a few days, and we’ll be onto something else. Maybe it’s because we all know how little of an effect this will have, and the past over-indulgences on the part of the left, is why we have our “fun” with stuff like this. I sure as heck don’t feel the need to spread it to my usual mailing-list of friends and family, regardless of how into protocol I am.
Like I said to Amy, I’ve had my fun and now I’m done.
The bottom line is that I agree with you. The left has no real ammo to shoot us with, so we must do our part not to give them any, even if in reality, it’s just BBs. Over-reacting over this, dilutes what we really need to focus on, and makes us look desperate.
“…yobombs…” – @ilovebeeswarzone:
Gesundheit! Your welcome.
@Wordsmith:
If you mean this is just a symptom of what’s really wrong with him, then I agree that there are a lot more important things to worry about. However, as the link I gave above indicated, the Japanese think it makes him look like a fool. And who wants to make deals with, or who takes pride in the company of, a fool?
@ Yonason
While your point is valid, the Japanese don’t vote here, nor are anyone but us “wingers” aware of their reaction. Think long-term and bigger…
Let use your point about making deals.
When the time comes, and a deal is not made, THAT is the time we pounce. We pounce on the fact that Obama and Demo’s can’t make deals with long-term allies. Meanwhile we chuckle to ourselves about the seed of that distrust. Then we loudly support the candidate who gives us an avenue toward reconciliation.
@Patvann:
O’Clueless insists that “restoring our image abroad” should a national priority, and at the same time acts like Clouseau, without the attendant good fortune. It may not matter to you that the President is a nitwit, but to many of us it does.
This is an issue THEY made, and hammered away on over and over and over and over and . . . I don’t see anything wrong in rubbing their faces in it, especially when what they are doing really IS tarnishing America’s image.
Here’s a short list of why O’Blunder is “superior” to GW…
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=63811549237&topic=11939
(note that it includes the Cipher bowing to the Kink of Sado Arabia, which I admit is far more offensive than bowing to the Japanese, who at least usually bow back.)
Now, if all you are saying is not to go overboard on it, fine. But to avoid it altogether? No, that’s just playing into their hands, as is overdoing it.
Don’t cut them any slack, because if you do, they’ll hang you with it.
@Wordsmith said: “I know Mike sometimes says this sort of knitpicking and incivility and BDS-driven sniping served the liberals well, and it’s time we stooped and engaged in the same mud-slinging. “
I never said that and would never suggest we
“stoop” to the same level:
http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/11/14/bow-wow-obama-does-it-again/#comment-255638
However, I believe there is nothing wrong in pointing out again and again and again what a politically illiterate weanie Obama is.
Now, if someone can point out which stories of real significance I have overlooked while engaging in this bit of Obumbler bashing please do.
Or perhaps we should just not criticize Obama at all and see if that high road example we set is emulate by our Dem friends?
@ Yonason
I’ll not whack you profusely about the head and shoulders with the ClueBat of Doom(tm) for that horrible miss-read of my position, because deep down I know you speak from an emotional position… and the fact that I like you.
Let’s clarify my position, so you can climb back down, shall we?
-Obama is a nitwit. The nittiest wit ever. A piece of crap that couldn’t run an paper-route. IT MATTERS TO ME A GREAT DEAL
These buttmunchers on the Left have dissed us and those we voted for forever. Overandoverandoverandover. They’ve done it though every medium we’ve invented. I voted for Reagan…I know your pain.
I in-fact HAVE said, and if not, implied, that we “not go overboard” just as Amy and Wordsmith have. If you would get your underwear unbunched, you would see that my posts have detailed his idiocy and mistakes in a manner that no one in any blog, nor any media have.
What we (Wordsmith, Amy and I) are putting forth is:
“That was fun, let’s move on, cuz here comes some more.”
Along with:
“If we over-do this, we give them ammo, (even if we know that ammo is wet)…The MSM will, (and I mean WILL) spin our (rightful) reaction against us. Cuz they can. They will lie, and omit to do it.
We must be aware of the battlespace. Let’s fight smarter, not just harder.
Honest, I’ll be in front of you with the next nit-witty thing he does. And if you ever accuse me of being soft on him again, I’ll beat your mother for having you, then I’ll hit you so hard, your dog will hurt.
@ Mike
C-mon man. You know damn well nobody is suggesting this.
You’re too knowledgeable to take this tact in defending your position. It’s beneath you.
Okay kids, there are going to be much bigger and better fish to fillet; but if a Ronald Reagan prototype had the reins and behaved in such an ignorant and classless manner in front of a symbolic head of state that is adored and loved by his people, I would ask why he is behaving like such an inept buffoon and making such an ass of himself in front of the world, especially our allies who may be the only ones left who will back us some day.
To the Japanese he is behaving like the ultimate barbarian and has no idea how to show dignity and respect; they look at him like the Roman Patricians looked at the barbarians who dropped in from Northern Europe to rape and plunder; in other words, they look at him in utter shock and disbelief. In America, we think everything is a classless society where people from the gutter can communicate and rub shoulders with kings and that scratching your crotch and speaking with sexual innuendo is perfectly normal. He is behaving like a typical Chicago ghetto thug in polite society and expects it to fly; the rest of the world doesn’t necessarily make social icons and politicians out of athletes and ghetto thugs.
Any of the rest of us would hire competent people rather than incompetent yes men, we would learn the proper procedure and practice several times rather than walking out cold and taking the chance of making a fool of ourselves. This self-absorbed ignorant fool thinks the world is going to change according to the new rules of Obama Mania: in reality, the rest of the leaders of the free world are waiting impatiently for this clod to walk off the world stage. I have said my piece and will only refer to this episode in the future to illustrate a point.
@Patvann: You may have forgotten how shortly after the Obumbler was inaugurated that some GOP leaders suggested something very similar. Sorry, can’t find the link but I think it was at the GOP senate winter retreat that th suggestion was put forward that we shouldn’t criticize Obummah.
So yes, I’ll stand by my earlier comment. I’m not suggesting that Wordsmith or Amy would follow that course but clearly some have.
Of course the GOP did get over their hesitation to criticize Obama following the explosion of the Tea Parties.
I do think this is a valid story as Obama’s minions claimed he was the smartest man ever to sit in the Oval Office and he can’t even get something like protocol right.
Will I spend the next week on this topic? No, certainly not. Neither will I shy away from stories like this in the future. 92 comments and counting shows that it strikes a chord with the readership.
And it’s not like I’m going to start running “birther” stuff just to get comments….
So, I guess that demonstrates how fair and balanced I am!
Right?
P.S. For Amy and Wordsmith: I’ll just add that Fox News has been covering this story as well as ABC’s Jake Tapper. I’m in good company.
. . .and speaking about taking the high road. . .Tea Parties. . .politics is a contact sport — not a well-mannered High Tea.
Here is the latest DCCC fund-raising email — this one from Jon Vogel-DCCC Executive Director. . .sound like the Dems are sitting back planning their next ice cream social?
————————————————————————————————–
To XXXXXXX –
Thanks to you, it’s been an amazing two weeks of progress.
Health insurance reform with a strong public option has passed the House. Together, we also defeated Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and the ‘tea party’ crowd by winning the NY-23 Special Election, picking up another Republican-held seat. This marked an incredible fifth straight special election victory.
With a tumultuous couple of weeks behind us but even more challenges ahead, DCCC Chairman Chris Van Hollen recorded this special video message for you – one of our most dedicated supporters.
We also wanted to bring you the latest edition of @Stake with all the latest news from the campaign trail and here in Washington, DC.
Health Insurance Reform Update
On November 7, 2009, the House of Representatives made history by passing the Affordable Health Care for America Act to deliver on the promise of affordable health insurance for the middle class. The legislation now moves to the Senate and a final bill will be sent to President Obama for his signature in the months ahead.
Many of you have already shared your own story about this issue. Congresswoman Debbie Halvorson, one of the new Democrats that you helped to elect last year, put together a moving video telling some of her constituents’ personal stories and explaining why she voted ‘yes’ on reform.
Heard Around Town
Latest Republican Outrages: Just when we think we’ve seen the lowest that House Republicans will go to try and kill health insurance reform, they surprise us. Here are some of their most outrageous comments of late.
Representative Michele Bachmann (R-MN) claimed health care would not be extended to the disabled.
NRCC Chairman Pete Sessions (R-TX) compared women to being like smokers while defending health insurance company discrimination.
Representative Virginia Foxx (R-NC) even said that health care reform is a bigger threat than ‘any terrorist right now in any country.’ Shockingly, she wasn’t the only House Republican comparing health care to terrorism…
Help us fight fear with facts: Click here to download a Health Care Fact Check Card and invite your friends and family to do the same.
Check out Representative Debbie Halvorson’s video about why we need Health Insurance Reform and share your own story.
Tea Party Activists Burn Effigies And Dig In for 2010 Midterms
Undeterred by the embarrassing loss that you handed them in the NY-23 Special Election, the Glenn Beck worshiping ‘tea party’ extremists are digging in for the long term. First they announced that they’re forming their own political action committee with the goal of raising millions to attack Democrats who voted for health insurance reform.
Now they’ve taken their protests to shocking new lows. Next weekend, they are planning to burn Democratic Members of Congress in effigy and more of these sickening displays are planned for the week ahead.
Sign our petition calling on Republican Members of Congress to denounce these despicable actions by the ‘tea party’ crowd and instead join Democrats in a civil and constructive debate on bringing urgently-needed health insurance reform.
With so much work ahead to fight the attacks, finish the job on health insurance reform, and prepare for 2010, stay tuned for the next edition of @Stake. Thank you again for driving our success.
Sincerely,
Jon Vogel
DCCC Executive Director
You bow to those who you feel are SUPERIOR to you. Obama wants to be king, not president. You can’t be king in a Republic (WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY). I believe Obama is trying to bring the USA down so he can be appointed king. He is bowing to dictators and shunning our friends.
@Mike
Good…and I forget nothing.
Now let’s look forward to tomorrow’s screwup, and hope we can repair it 3 years hence.
@Jerry Bowles #46:
This was actually one of the quotes I meant to bring up, but forgot to dig up in my earlier response.
Also note in regards to your “small band of international criminals”,
“Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated.”
-President Bush in an address to a Joint Session of Congress and the American People, United States Capitol, Washington D.C., September 20, 2001.
And I love this point, here.
Mike #88,
I’m not talking about what you said in this thread, but elsewhere in a couple of other places, after the ’08 Election loss. I might not have you cited accurately, but the gist of it seemed to be you saying “the tactic seemed to work well for the left these last 8 years, so let’s adopt some of their methods”.
@Wordsmith: I am not against throwing the dirt back in their faces. The lefties deserve it.
@Patvann: Let’s not leave the topic just yet.
This from Wesley Pruden in the Washington Times:
And from Politico:
And a little something from the University of Connecticut College Republicans:
Great video.
So how do we get CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS/PBS/MSNBC to show it while explaining protocol?
@Patvann:
Works for me. Thanks for the clarification.
But, just to repeat, I am completely with Mike on this, as he says, “… I believe there is nothing wrong in pointing out again and again and again what a politically illiterate weanie Obama is.”
After all, they would do the same for us.
@Yonason and Mike.
Hey, brothers have spats. Let’s go kick ass.
Here’s my truce-offering.
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/PhotoPopup.aspx?id=512640
[courtesy embed by Mike]
Pingback: Obama Bows in Japan… Quick, Distract from Obama’s Latest Stupid Blunder by Attacking Palin’s Book! « Frugal Café Blog Zone
This was my favorite comment (cribbed from a comment to the story on a newspaper web site).
http://www.examiner.com/x-16352-Japan-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m11d15-Japans-reaction-to-Obama-bowing-before-the-Emperor
Now, if you watch the video (click on above link) of “the bow,” it doesn’t look quite as extreme as the still image, frozen in time. I’m guessing that perhaps the President didn’t have the benefit of two full days in Japanese charm school. Probably someone told him to bow deeper than the emperor; Obama is a very tall man, and the emperor is very short.
With respect to never bowing more than 10 degrees; that’s poppycock, in the real world of Japanese life. I’ve been to medical meetings in Japan a half dozen times, and it is extremely common to see such deep bows, without maintaining eye contact, even among equals, but especially when greeting a distinguished senior professor. The deepest bower I recall was Prof Yoshihiko Maehara, a surgical oncologist at Fukuoka University. He always bowed that way — not just once, but repeatedly. Up and down. He bows. Distinguished prof bows back. He bows again. That sort of thing is very typical.
- Larry W/HB
One of my favorite comments, it may have been in the Examiner, was something to the effect of:
Larry, I’ve read the Orange County Register and thought it was a fairly well written newspaper. They haven’t started pandering to the lowest common denominator have they, or are you just easily amused.
Perhaps you read the LA Times, a lame comment can really stand out in the Times.
@openid.aol.com/runnswim Repeated: “I guess we’d rather him puke on the Emperor, or perhaps give him a very uncomfortable attempt at a neck massage? “
Thanks Larry. You just proved that despite all the appeals that we treat Obama respectfully you guys will continue to bash the Bushs every chance you get.
I won’t have to worry about not taking the high road as long as you folks are still in the gutter.
Shut up Larry. I’m 6’5″ and height has nothing to do with anything. I have spent more time in Japan than you can ever appreciate. I’ve met with the diplomats, and once took the president of Toshiba for a ride in my 70 El Camino while he visited our company (Mattson) in Fremont. (He owns a 67 427 Vette.) I’ve enjoyed dinner in his home there, and was introduced to more high-ranking heads of business in Japan than you’ve read white-papers. I’ve slept in the home of the vice-president of Sumitomo Bank, and was trusted with spending the day with his daughters. I’ve had private tours in the Yokohama Tower with the owners, as well as been give whole-floor suites in the Intercontinental Hotel by it’s manager simply for choosing to stay there.
Hoo-boy, you met ONE dood who thinks he’s the girl who brings your luggage to your room. The head of Nihon Genshiryoku Hatuden does not think he’s a waiter, and did not bow any deeper than the head-bop, when I was with GE Nuclear management group, nor did ANYONE else out of the hundreds of people I’ve been introduced to in the 32 times I’ve been there for 3 different companies. The boy who took my credit-card at the Hilton did though, but only after it was approved.
Shut. Up. Larry.
You are out of your league, and I see right through your off-handed insinuation, and quite frankly, through your bold-faced lies. Playing this positional crap with me will never work. I’ve met “doctors” too, but very few of them have the emotional weakness that compels them to take a contrarian posit when they feel as though they might not be the biggest flea on the dog in every circumstance. Of course the PHd’s in the world of physics and chemistry tend to be more humble than most.
Any last bit of respect for you, just went out the window, and the respect was truly there. Go back to laying prone for governemnt healthcare. It suits you.
@Mike: Number one, I don’t recall “all the appeals” that you treat Obama “respectfully.” That would be an exercise in futility. Secondly, there is a huge difference between recalling a factual occurrence (barfing on trousers and giving an unwanted neck massage to a head of state) and, as a different FA editor on this blog did, refering to POTUS as the “Eunuch in Chief.” In the context of the 100 some odd commentaries on this thread, comparing and contrasting Obama’s bow to the emperor of Japan to Bush’s neck massage of the German chancellor is not disproportionate. Anyway, I can’t take credit for the comparison; it was a quote from a newspaper website.
@Skookum: I’ve had home delivery of the Orange County Register for close to 10 years. Prior to that, I did take the Times.
@Patvann: I have a very low regard for people who call other people liars, don’t provide an example of said lies, to allow the person so libeled to defend himself, all while hiding behind pseudonyms when posting their libel. I’d be very happy to match my Japanese experiences with yours (why don’t we do so in private emails; we could share experiences) — I consider University Department Chairs and Health Ministry officials to be the equivalent of your contacts and every trip I’ve taken to Japan has been paid for by the Japanese who invited me to speak and and consult. I’m guessing you went on your own company’s nickel. But I am impressed with your boast that a Japanese business executive trusted you to spend the day with his daughters. On one of my trips, my wife (trip also courtesy of our hosts) and I had two junior surgeons pick us up at the airport, carry our bags, and serve as our personal tour guides for the week we were there. I wouldn’t know how hotel clerks bow to you after confirming that your credit card isn’t bogus, as I’ve never had to produce one. Did you at least get paid for your baby sitting?
@Missy: ha ha
- Larry W/HB
Patvann (seeking to be annointed as FA official Japanese expert) instructs us (#2):
Uh-oh. Must have been sleeping in class:
http://gojapan.about.com/cs/etiquetteinjapan/a/bowing.htm
- Larry W/HB
P.S. @Patvann. (Trying here to be conciliatory): I have no idea what sorts of contacts you had in Japan; the ones you describe all seem to be business situations, with people who do a lot of business with Americans. It seems evident to me that the protocols used by Japanese businessmen, in dealing with American businessmen, may be quite different from those used in segments of Japanese society which are not so geared toward dealing with Westerners. All of the medical meetings and health ministry sessions I’ve attended have not been true international meetings, but were meetings where 98% of those in attendance were Japanese and where the bulk of the presentations and discussions were in Japanese. Fortunately for me, charts and graphs of medical data are often decipherable, if one understands the subject matter, even if the legends and symbols are labeled in Japanese and the verbal narrative is in Japanese. It would not surprise me at all to learn that the level of courtesy displayed between Japanese medical professionals is somewhat different from that displayed in business and social situations involving Japanese businessmen and their American counterparts.
@patvann: You talked about taking the President of Toshiba for a ride in your car. I had some interesting stateside Japanese experiences, also. Seven years ago, we had a very famous Japanese swimmer named Masami Tanaka live in our home for about 4 months. You can Google her and you can ask the President of Toshiba if he knows about her; I’m sure that he does. She’s quite famous; she used to do Toyota commercials on Japanese television — which brings up an interesting story. When she arrived in the USA, she was accompanied by a full TV camera crew, which shot footage of her arriving at the Bradley Terminal at LAX, being greeted by my and my family, and they followed us home (32 mile drive South to Huntington Beach), where they shot video of the interior of our home, including Masami’s room, which we’d just remodeled, thank goodness. What happened to all that video, I never found out, but my real story follows. After Masami had been living with us for several months, another TV crew flew all the way over from Japan to film her training at my daughter’s swim club. They wanted to tell the story of her life, training in America, and also spent an entire evening in our home, filming us as we all prepared dinner in our kitchen and then ate, sitting Japanese-style on our floor (this is the way my wife and daughters still eat; I’m not so flexible (I’ve had some truly tortuous experiences in Japan at long banquets) and sit at the little low table on a little child’s chair). Anyway, this is where it gets good. We have some Japanese-American friends who were visiting Japan for a month and, shortly thereafter, they were just watching TV when what should come on but the mini-documentary about Masami, which included the segment preparing and eating dinner in our house. “We know that family!” they later told us they exclaimed, gluing themselves to the rest of the program; so that was our 15 minutes of Japanese fame. While Masami was with us, we had the opportunity to serve dinner to a group of Masami’s friends (all beautiful young women, like Masami) visiting her from Japan and, later, her mother and father, visiting from Hokkaido.
Here’s a photo (taken 7 years ago) of Masami with our daughters:
http://weisenthal.org/swimming/09120901_5.JPG
When she first arrived, she spoke very little English; by the time she left the USA, after about 10 months here, if memory serves, she was very fluent. She bequeathed us her surfboard, which I still use, upon rare occasions.
- Larry W/HB
@Patvann: Now Doc Brainwash, who was banned from Flopping Aces, is trying to use your experience to justify his own lame comments:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/hiltonhead/4118974212008856036/?a=31103#300223
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: I used to watch “The Courtship of Eddies Father” so I guess that means I know as much as about Japanese etiquette as you do.
What you fail to grasp is that we are NOT talking about how a Japanese citizen would greet another Japanese citizen or how a Japanese citizen would greet the Emperor. We are talking about the propriety of a U.S. President, or any head of state, bowing to the Emperor.
Clearly, Obama is in error here. Have you recognized that fact? If so, it might have gotten lost in your latest blizzard of bloviation.
@Mike: Sure, he overdid it. I think it’s something which could be joked about, but he was just trying to show respect to the Japanese people. It was hardly the diplomatic gaffe of the century that you guys are making it out to be. Maybe no one ever taught Obama how to bow and he did the same thing I did, which was to Google “how to bow in Japan” and he came across the same ask.com article I found, and he decided the the Emperor, representing the entire cultural soul of Japan, was worthy of the highest level of respect. From what I’ve been able to determine, the Japanese people did view the bow in precisely the way Obama intended, and that probably did make them feel a bit warmer towards America, which was also Obama’s obvious goal.
With respect to citing my own Japanese experiences, this was simply in response to Patvann’s assertion that he’d been to Japan and that bows were supposed to be limited to 10 degrees, always maintaining eye contact. This was obviously WRONG, based on my own first hand experience (and I think that my experiences may well have been more authentically Japanese, as these took place within the venue of indigenous Japanese culture and not in the venue of Japanese-American business interactions). Your point is that Obama was an American interacting with Japanese and not a Japanese interacting with Japanese. I’ll accept and grant you this point, but I’ll still maintain that, as diplomatic gaffes go, nothing tops the unwanted Angela Merkel neck massage given by the previous Diplomat-in-Chief. Let’s say that Obama had done that. You guys would have accused him of molesting a female head of state of one of the most important countries in the world, with respect to US security. And you know very well that this is true.
P.S. with respect to Doc Brainwash, number one I don’t know him; I never met him; I never read anything he wrote; I never heard of him. What we all write here becomes public domain, and I can’t control how others may use whatever I write and neither can you, for that matter. If you ever find my stuff being used by some looney on another site in a way that would be embarrassing to me, I’d appreciate you telling me about it; in return, I’ll do the same for you.
- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: Why is this so difficult for you to understand? It isn’t that Obama’s bow was ridiculous, it’s the fact that he bowed at all.
Do I need to repeat myself here? I could care less how the Japanese bow to each other or to their Emperor. That’s NOT the issue. Obama placed himself, and symbolically the United States, in a subservient, inferior position to the heir of Hirohito.
Really Larry… get with the program.
Did you miss this earlier?
@Mike: O.K. You win. We both agree that it was inappropriate, and our only disagreement remains how inappropriate or whether it was a net positive or a net negative for the US (I think it was a net positive; yes, he made a mistake, but the Japanese people recognized that he was just trying to be respectful). But maybe I’m wrong, and it was somehow harmful to the US.
Now, can you admit that, had Obama tried to give Angela Merkel an unwanted neck massage in the middle of a formal diplomatic meeting, you guys would have accused him of sexual molestation? Or worse?
- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
Larry
President Nixon bowed to Emperor Hirohito and Chairmen Mao.
Ron H.
Larry I will say that Obama’s bow was much more extreme than Nixon’s but he bowed none the less.
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=5c8f4325f5d81345&q=hirohito%20source:life&prev=/images?q=hirohito+source:life&ndsp=12&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&start=12&um=1” rel=”external”>
Ron H.
Nixon also bowed to Chairmen Mao during his visit to China.
Thanks, Ron. I will say that Nixon’s bow may have been more extreme than that suggested by the frontal (not side) view shown.
Hirohito was 5’5″
Nixon was 6 feet
It looks as if Nixon’s head is only a couple inches taller than Hirohito, and Hirohito is not upright — he has a slight bow, also.
I’ll bet that Patvann could use his math skills to triangulate the precise number of degrees which Nixon is tilting forward.
- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
Reply to Ron H (114,115) went to spam.
Oops. Let me try and post that again. Eisenhower bowed a lot too!
Ron H.
@Ron H (#115):
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1109/Bowing_to_Mao.html
Nixon bowing to Mao.
I grabbed a still (not the lowest point; couldn’t “freeze” it there, got him slightly on the way up).
http://weisenthal.org/myamerica/Nixon_bows_to_Mao.jpg
Awhile back, the good folks here on FA were crucifying Anita Dunn for QUOTING Chairman Mao; and now we’ve got Nixon BOWING to him.
And it seems GHW Bush (POTUS #41) did something very similar.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/17/presidential-bows-revisited/
- Larry W/HB
Ron
I also remember Mike posting about Obama putting his feet on the desk in the oval office and then Aye found a pic of Bush doing the very same thing. My point for posting about the whole bowing episode wasn’t to defend Obama so much as point out the hypocrisy that my side is displaying. I personally didn’t care when Bush (who I voted for twice by the way) kissed the Saudi Prince on the cheek and then held his hand or the infamous Merkel back rub.
In the same regard all of this complaining about Obama bowing to a foreign leader is much ado about nothing. There are far more important policy issues that concern me and not who Obama bows to or whether or not Michelle has sleeves on her outfit.
It’s all so very petty and insignificant.
Ron H.
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: You really are working overtime on this aren’t you Larry.
Nixon NODDED to Mao, Obama could have tied the Emperors shoes he was bent over so low.
Give me a break.
The point is that such an exaggerated bow is WRONG on so many levels.
You just don’t get it to you?
@Ron H.: Putting me and you on the same “side” might be taking some liberties.
I’m not shocked you don’t get it either.
But do tell me…. when was the last time we saw you comment on a post critical of Obama of which you approved?
I’d really like to know.
Let’s run this tape again as obviously Larry hasn’t seen it. Plus, it annoys Ron:
Mike
You are missing my point entirely. I’ve already stated that I this whole hoopla over the Obama bow is ridiculous and petty. I CLEARLY stated I wasn’t defending Obama but pointing out the hypocrisy. Nixon bowed, oh wait but Obama bowed lower . Yikes! Egads! The end is near.
By “our side” Mike I was referring to the internet in general. The “Obama Bow” is everywhere in the conservative blogs and not just hear Mike. On NewsMax I even read an article that was saying Presidents have never bowed to a foreign leader which is entirely not true.
You see Mike I’m concerned about facts not Propaganda which is basically what you peddle in. Heck you’re still wiping the egg off of your face from the ridiculous “Obama put his shoes on the desk in the oval office” post. Aye correctly pointed out that Bush did it too. So who cares Mike? oh wait you do!
Sloppy work Mike!
And what critisism would you like me to level at Obama that would appease you Mike. Please let me know as I really want your happiness. It’s what I live for brah!
Ron H.
Mike
I have been critical of Obama’s lack of experience in the past . I haven’t posted on here in quite awhile so you wouldn’t have anything recent anyway.
Oh and here’s a quick tip for you Mike. I usually only post when I DISAGREE with something! So if I ain’t postin, I ain’t disagreeing with you. I’m not a cheerleader so I usually don’t rah rah rah. I’ll leave that to other folks!
Ron H.
@Mike: A “nod?” I don’t think so; as the blog says, play the tape from 1:24 on.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1109/Bowing_to_Mao.html
And take a look at this informative collection of images:
http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=551411&articleId=321350&func=6&channel=Member+Guided+News&filterRead=false&filterHidden=true&filterUnhidden=false
And you still haven’t answered my question: Look at the image of Bush and Merkel. Now substitute Obama for Bush and recall how Merkel quickly withdrew, with obvious surprise and annoyance. What you you have said, had Obama been the perpetrator?
- Larry W/HB
Oh and Mike sometimes when we touch, the honesty is too much, I wanna hold you till the fear in me subsides!
I’m just saying!
Ron
Ron,
I think Mike might want to hold you, also….by the throat.
Lol.
you all are the only people around my life that make me laugh that is also why i come back,thank you.
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: Larry I did watch the tape. Did you also watch the video of Obama bowing to Hirohito’s heir?
Please don’t tell me there is any comparison.
I note that you have YET to say Obama’s BOW was wrong. So frankly, Nixon’s nod must have been downright rude by your obsequious standards.
Give it up Larry… YOU ARE WRONG!
And it’s not the first time… nor the second, nor the third or fourth or fifth or sixth….
Besides that Larry, you want to keep drawing comparisons between Nixon and Obama it’s fine with me:
http://mikesamerica.blogspot.com/2009/10/another-mike-was-right-moment-obama-is.html
You and Ron should get along fine.
@Wordsmith: Nah! I don’t have any desire to strangle Ron. I might kick him in the ass as it seems that’s where he does most of his thinking. And something tells me “ass” is pretty close to Ron’s real political affiliation.
oBOWma and Burger King
http://townhall.com/cartoons/cartoonist/GlennMcCoy/2009/11/1/
Hey Mike
You still have some egg on your face. Here let me wipe it off for you. There all better! Oh and insulting me doesn’t change that fact! Eisenhower bowed to numerous dignitaries and other political figures such as Charles De Gault!. Should I provide you with that link? Nah why bother you’ll keep up this ridiculous post. Try focusing on something substantial for a change instead of Obama’s feet on a desk or how many times he blinks when he talks.
And kick me in the ass? Please Mike don’t make me laugh. You are so precious with your veiled threats.
I heart you Mike Really I do.
Ron H.
Larry
Don’t waste your time on Mike. He can’t see how hypocritical he is because he’s blinded by all of the egg on his face.
Ron H.
Stow it Ron. You’re not fooling anyone with your routine. And as far as only commenting when you disagree with me, I take it you agree with me 99.9% of the time. Pretty good record for me hunh? Maybe I know a thing or two after all? Especially about you!
Mike, the horse is dead, stop beating it! There is nothing here worth reading any longer. It has reached the “So’s your Mama”.
@mike (#130):
Here’s the deal: Obama was bowing to the Japanese emperor. Nixon was bowing to Chairman Mao.
And, actually I did concede your point — twice. (#110, #112).
I guess that my agreement with you wasn’t sufficiently forceful. Let me try again:
What Obama did was utterly disgraceful. He has tarnished the image of the nation, given comfort to our enemies, and increased the probability of a terrorist attack on American soil. He deserves, at minimum, a censure resolution by the Senate, and the House should seriously consider commencing impeachment procedures.
Now that I’ve agreed with you, can you finally answer this question that you’ve been avoiding:
Now, just think about it for a moment and try to think about what you’ve have written about this.
What would you have said?
- LW/HB
@MikeA
Thanks for the heads-up w/brainwash..
I just whacked him with the Cluestick of Doom(tm)
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: Did Bush BOW to Merkel and place himself and our country in an inferior position?
Why is it that you are so hesitant to admit error where Obama is concerned?
Instead of just saying: “Obama was wrong” you’ve wasted countless words in a futile effort at moral equivalence.