Aaaanywho, back to the topic at hand. With or without someone who thinks Murtha has any respect for the Marines he once served with, particularly the ones who served in Haditha.

My first problem with the articles quoted are who they are from, Both writers tend to view the war(s) from a decidedly left slant, and the history of their reporting shows it. Mr. Wood sees more than he should in the “glaring” of the men he sees watching the give-a-ways in Iraq. He’s “projecting” too much, and my first instinct is take what he says with a grain of salt.

-He makes the mistake of many observers, in putting the Iraqis in the same box as the Afghanis. This shows he isn’t thinking seriously, but simply trying to support a meme.

He also fails to point out that the give-aways stopped in Iraq several years ago, (as the picture shows, the local police do it now) and the troops in Afghanistan don’t give out candy and trinkets, because they don’t get much “walk-about” opportunities there to do so. Afghani kids also prefer small toys over sweets.

He did however point out that it’s done less haphazardly now, which is good. It’s really all about the “showoffness” that upsets the elders in Afghanistan, not the candy and balls themselves.

Handing out the stuff to the elders isn’t too bad of an idea, but everyone in the village (and the hills) will still know where it came from, thus negating what one is trying to do.

IMO, the best thing is to not give anything away per say, but have the elders quietly be invited to the FOB, and offer them a selection of things they actually need in the village. Pots, pans, cooking oil, grain, even livestock. Things to lift their standing, and standar of living, but not things that make them stand out to the Talib. Offer it only AFTER chai, talks, and agreement, but never insist. They will turn it down, until they see that you don’t use it as a tool, and you’ll know you’ve “got” them when they show up bearing a small gift of their own. THAT’s when they’ll warmly accept what you offer, be it gifts, or cooperation. The problem here is they like to give weapons as gifts to other men, so it might not go smoothly at the gate.

When leaving a home, is the time to offer a small gift through the elder male. “May I offer your family a gift?” will automatically put them into a mode of reciprocation, without upsetting tribal protocol. THAT is when you offer the balls and dolls to the kids, a bundle of Kurgish chai or blankets to the mom, and a sturdy knife or farm-tool to dad. All of it through the dad, trusting he knows who it’s all for, and it shows him that you appreciated his hospitality and protection. No gift should be gaudy, and it should come from the surrounding areas, not Los Angeles.

Nuance rules the day there.

In Iraq, the population, customs, and protocol was very different. The parents didn’t mind too much, because they were used to taking anything that they could while under Saddam. After we got there, they looked at it as “you owe me anyway, cuz you’re here, and you’re rich”. You saw that attitude magnified in the actions of the increasingly greedy kids later, as the war went on. It was much less bad away from the big cities, as almost everyone appreciated our largess.

And I will bash the hell out of anyone who claims our individual warriors being nice, in the way their moms and dads taught them, are somehow leading the non combatants into the enemy’s arms…because the problem isn’t those small, personal actions, it’s the big showy give-aways.

IMO, Ricks and Woods do not make enough of a distinction between the two, let alone between the cultures.

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Patvann: I am sure when Chesty meets your ass on the streets of heaven you will know for sure a-hole

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Trooper

You’re right. Being an old super-squid out of the water this long has gotten me a bit (c)rusty.

The givaway?

“If you earned the EGA or any other honor…

Sua Sponte, Sir.

Oh…and “Blast”?…One last thing…
The EGA ain’t a pretty ribbon, or a medal, dude.

Eagle
Globe
and
Anchor

Google it, then say goodnight to Mr. Puller for me.

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I guess I am not as fn liberal as you say I am.

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blast: I can say when I was in Iraq, WE were encouraged to give shit to those f’n sandn’s… as far as I am concerned we should have NUKED THEM ALL! WHO gives a flyin f’ck about them.

What can one say about such a comment…. certainly nothing good.

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OLD trooper, dude, with all due respect, I have had enough beer, and as to your admonition, you might be a FORMER officer, I did my duty, and I am not here to f with you. We might be on opposite sides of a political argument, but honestly, if you really served you would know there are different opinions. I have been decent to you before, but honestly kiss my a, you don’t really know me or what my experiences have been. I respect Okinawa Marines. I respect men who came before me, I will respect you if you are who you say you are was well. I hate this bs internet, if we met we probably could find something to say nice about each other, or at least I am younger and could bust your n-ts, but honestly would never disrespect you that way. Why you would bust me would be beyond me. Maybe it is this f ed up internet and you feel like you can be dishonorable and trash talk. I am pretty low right now, go ahead and kick me lower, f’n save tax payers money, but only you and my family will know for sure.

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Blast, You come off like a punk. I am an OCS Commissioned Retired Officer and been to more fights than you care to imagine. 28 Years, Three Wars and you need to go out for a beer and STFU.

When I was with First Group on Okinawa I beat on foolish Marines for PT. At The Top of the Rock Officers Club before lunch. Don’t play that crap here Bud on anyone.

Patvann, I served on deployments with 3rd Division Marines in the PI and Iraq. Ignore Blast.
He has issues. The cure for ignorance is information. The cure for stupid is very grim.

I have Ranger School and Charm School from Benning and JFK Center on my resume that won’t buy me a cup of coffee up here in Montana but will buy me shots and beers in Fayetteville, NC or at Ft. Benning, GA until day breaks and Airborne folks go out for a run, vomit often but stay in formation and Never Quit. Old School.

Blast is an idiot and should be ignored.
We both know that there are No Former Marines.
Don’t play with the troll. He will just make loud noises and piss on your boots.
Not worth your time.

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Patvann: give me a fn break. If you earned the EGA or any other honor you might have a bit of respect. and Rep Murtha, is a former Marine You are just like the other asswipes. And as to your son, he obviously was the apple that DID drop far far from the tree, or there must have been a gamma ray burst when you procrarated as his DNA shifted much from YOURS. AND if you had read my comment, I was speaking to the WHY we had not been dealing with this shit before. I can say when I was in Iraq, WE were encouraged to give shit to those f’n sandn’s… as far as I am concerned we should have NUKED THEM ALL! WHO gives a flyin f’ck about them.

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Nice try.

HAD you been a Marine, you would have given context to your statement, by giving examples, of your experience in-theater, LIKE MY SON CAN AT THE DROP OF A HAT.

You would have DEFENDED the kind actions of your fellow DevilDogs toward the kids.

You would have defended your oblique statement, instead of reverting to idiocy.

IF you were TRULY a “former Marine” you would fight me with superior firepower.

And IF you are a “former Marine”, you sure as hell ain’t worthy of the EGA and have forgotten who the hell you are, who went before you, and who’s there now.

Kinda like Murtha.

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Hey, Patvan… I am a former Marine so don’t f’n lecture me, you can kiss my a. You are a sheep! no sheep dog, and will be eaten by stronger beings. Blah blah blah. Yawn.

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