Hurray to Obama for trying to motivate students!!!

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Wordsmith: That last paragraph is less amusing than it is illuminating. Obviously, we are dealing with one of those adovcates of social justice who’s sipped too much of the Kool Aid.

But as for Aaron’s statement that “It is important to mention the first Woman or African-American to do something because many times they faced a greater uphill battle to do those things.”

Sorry I missed that earlier in Aaron’s blizzard of bloviation.

I wonder if he had the same appreciation for Sarah Palin’s run for V.P. on the GOP ticket. That was a first for our side. Or did he only think it important when it was Geraldine Ferraro?

One question that I overlooked earlier: I wonder how old Aaron is?

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Aaron #52:

I would say that would be a great example of not telling the “truth.” My reply, though, would be that because of the history of this country oppressing Women and minorities, it is in many ways, accomplishments by these groups are greater than they might seem on the surface. Take George Washington Carver.

Your premise itself is already slanted: “history of this country oppressing women and minorities”, which creates the impression of America being unique in this (and I know you know it’s not) regard.

There are a number of hidden hands and heroes whose accomplishments are relegated to the shadows of history. But in a general 3rd grade American history class, you can’t cover them all; so then, what are the important events and who are the important figures of greatest cultural and historical significance to our nation? Who gets to decide?

It is important to mention the first Woman or African-American to do something because many times they faced a greater uphill battle to do those things.

The way I see it, there’s much about promoting those chapters in history that is driven by a political agenda. Movements need their heroes, I suppose.

As for Lies My Teacher Told Me, I would say, don’t be afraid to admit the things that are true in the book – but don’t be afraid to debate them either. I read the book for a college class in which the teacher was not trying to push the ideas of the book on the students – rather he was offering a different perspective than the one we got in grade school and asked us to debate what we thought.

The problem I have with the title is, it’s outdated. What I’ve seen in perusing the pages of that book, is already taught in schools today. When I was a kid in grade school, the simple history was that Columbus was a hero and Thanksgiving a cause for celebration. By the time I reached high school and college, kids were now being taught that Columbus was a white devil and Thanksgiving a day for mourning. “Lies My Teacher Told Me” should be the title of a conservative book when Howard Zinn’s America is what’s being taught to so many of our kids.

I’m a victim of a politically correct education, where there’s a lie being taught that the internment of Japanese immigrant aliens and 2nd generation Nisei Americans during WWII was all about racism, prejudice, and hysteria and that there was not a single incident of disloyalty from Japanese-Americans. That’s a revisionist lie.

It’s funny, because I ended up on the more conservative side of the debate most of the time in class, even though I consider myself a Liberal because too many in the class did not have enough background on the issues.

Yeah, that is funny…you ending up on the conservative end of the argument; and also very scary!

Doesn’t that also give validation to liberal indoctrination in our education system?

I also very much enjoy the “Major Problems in American History” series because of its collection of primary source documents.

I don’t see why, since a number of historians do rely on primary source documents; yet still come to diverging conclusions, interpretations and perspectives. You and I can read primary source information ourselves, and still come away from it with different lessons learned.

For what its worth, I do think that our textbooks are too politically correct, but also do not address or adequately address other issues like socioeconomic oppression, class warfare, institutionalized racism, reverse racism, the military industrial complex, the legality of America’s expansion and race towards manifest destiny, and the extermination of native people, whether intentionally or un-intentionally.

Does anyone else, other than myself, consider that paragraph deliciously funny? “Too politically correct”, yet not addressing adequately enough all those pet-peeve project issues liberals care so passionately about?

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aaron: Obviously there is a difference between the curriculum and the speech – but to deny that the two are linked is just plain ignorant.

Read again… s-l-o-w-l-y… Aaron. I’ll make it easy for you and repeat it…

MataHarley: But wait… Obama doesn’t come out with clean hands simply because his speech wasn’t indoctrination. His guilt in an obvious agenda (with their first attempt) is because the “curriculum” accompanying his speech comes from his own appointed Dept of Ed. (or, in the Dickens analogy, his novel published were it published with suggested curriculum/exercises)

He must take responsibility for their chosen “indoctrination” – not because of his speech content – but because the curriculum provided came from *his* selection of education officials.

They are linked not by his speech content, but by the fact it was his appointees providing that political agenda as curriculum… his appointees, his responsibility. The common element for indoctrination is not the speech and curriculum, but Obama himself.

Mike, I’m not sure how many teachers embarked on that original study plan after the media kerfuffle. Would be interesting to know in the aftermath.

Were my granddaughter in my charge, I would have allowed her to view the speech, and denied the teacher any ability to collect anything from her as an ensuing exercise. And when she got home, I’d make sure I “undid” anything that teacher did. I personally think that hearing both perspectives would have been more valuable than simply isolating her from the offensive to begin with.

However it’s moot to me because the public spoke, the media passed on their voices… followed by Obama’s DOE retreat. I consider that success.

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Mata: The point isn’t moot as the lesson instructions had already gone out to 14,000 schools by email. The Dept. of Education later changed the wording on their web site, but there is nothing to indicate they sent a revised copy to the schools.

Also, if a teacher finds the original instructions in her email she may feel empowered to proceed even if later changes are issued.

Liberal indoctrination runs rampant through the public schools. The eyewitness report from teacher Adrienne Ross documents that.

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BTW, Aaron.. your battle about “moron” is with Mike’sA. We are all different people, and you may want to get rid of your “group think” and natural instincts to lump everyone in the class warfare in which your party regularly engages.

I’m not reprimanding you for your choice of words. You can say what you want, and I will respond in kind.

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aaron: Are you so incomprehensibly stupid that you cannot see how if students are asked to “write down key ideas or phrases that are important in the speech that it matters WHAT THE SPEECH IS ABOUT? Is your brain not capable of understanding that if students are going to answer the question “what is the president asking me to do?” THAT IT ACTUALLY MATTERS WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS ASKING THEM TO DO? So…….what in the curriculum is liberal indoctrination regardless of what the speech is about. Please, Please, Mike, you’ve got to tell me you understand this question!

First of all, Aaron, most of this argument becomes moot because the Obama admin/Dept of Ed realized that they were idiots… and CHANGED the curriculum.

But since you bring up “incomprehensibly stupid”… which you are obviously a prime example with a deflect and ignore strategy… are you so incomprehensibly stupid as to realize that the bone of contention was not any of those items you mentioned. But was, in fact, the exercise that the student “write a letter to themselves on how they can help the President/him”…. a politician. And that the letters would be collected by the teacher, and redistributed at a later date to “hold the student accountable” for that letter and promise to “help the President/him”.

Obviously, since even the DOE was called on the carpet for such blatant politician worship, they changed it to writing letters to themselves about their goals for themselves… and not Obama.

a’hole still fits, I see

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When you accuse me of not “caring” about most of my friends and family, you’re an a’hole. It fits. No apologies from me. Perhaps you should rethink your own rhetoric if you don’t like the response.

Again, if you READ thru the damn archives, you’d also know that suggesting offering insurance in separate tiers has also come up… ala a tax incentive medical savings account for everyone so they pay normal doctor visits and misc out of pocket (keeping costs down), a second tier for less catastrophic events (broken legs, minor surgeries, etc) and a third tier for the catastrophic.

No, I don’t think Medicare, Social Security or other welfare programs are Constitutional. However unless these are challenged via our court system by the very wealthy who can take it thru the appellate courts to SCOTUS, we’re stuck with it. Plus that, I’ve already been had/robbed for cash out of my paychecks for over 40 years. Give me my money back, and I’ll be happy to buy private insurance. Other than that, I want my cash back from social security and medicare because that’s the only way I’ll ever see it… if at all.

Buying into the “evil insurance providers” talking point again, I see. Did you know that your insurer has to pay 35-41% OVER costs of any procedures and services because government underpays for Medicare? Boy… making a killing buying products and services for almost one and a half times costs… duh

So I take it you and your wife are not thrilled with your government services…. this makes your previous arguments even more absurd, Aaron. You think it’s going to get better? Or have you considered that what you pine for is going to cut down on your coverage and reimbursements because the government will not view your wife via productive years and deny coverage for lack of cash. ala dealing with five patients having a heart attack, and only one defibrillator on hand. That results in eenie, meenie, minie moe decisions…

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Between all the people writing in opposition to me – You have not been able to address my concerns in post #64, answered questions about a national catastrophic plan, or addressed the fact that the vast majority of scientists support my position on global warming. You have made assumptions about my knowledge of the medical systems without even considering the fact that you know not what I do about having a family member with a sever injury, what is covered in that situation, and having large, unpaid medical bills. I have tried fervently to address and clearly state my points, yet you ignore the ones that you cannot answer. I clearly state that I know that you have addressed costs, Mata, but then that is what you choose to write about? How about answering the unanswered questions in post #78?

Take the transcrips of these posts to anyone outside of your right wing fringe world and ask them what they think. Do you stand up for your friends writing “F off” and “a’hole” but reprimand me for using the word “moron.” That is what makes YOU hypocrites – if you cannot see that, I’m sorry that you have so fooled yourself about who you really are.

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Sorry Aaron. You’ve wasted enough of my time.

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