@Jeez #18

Last I checked, the ATF is not part of the Justice Department. As an enforcement agency, they fall under the Executive Branch. While they can in Federal court file an “opinion,” they are stepping way beyond their established bureaucratic powers here, (which is precisely why there is a separation of powers.) They have no authority to tell anyone that a state law is “null and void” That is why there are Federal District Courts and SCOTUS.

(Fair warning, I’m about to go off on a tangent.)

Then again, this is the same agency (along with the FBI) that waged a siege war on a religious sect (Re: WACO,) which as we know led to the deaths of many innocent people, all in an attempt to take in custody one man for minor firearms violations. (Ignoring the local sheriff who’d told them that he could easily and without any fuss arrest take David Koresh the next time he came to town for supplies. (This was all justified to the public with newscasters telling us that the Branch Davidian were “a cult.” What religion can not be considered by some one else to be a “cult” Where is the separation between church and state here? Who authorized the ATF and FBI to decide what religions are to be treated as cults?)

These are also the very organizations that targeted Randy Weaver and family in an ill considered and botched raid/assault all over the supposed sale of two sawed-off shotguns.

Granted that most of us would consider that some of the people targeted were “on the fringe,” or “conspiracy nuts” so are quite a few others and that is still insufficient excuse for the government to react as they did. Most any clinical psychologist will tell you that if someone has paranoia you don’t you add fuel the problem by acting as their paranoia expects. Hell, anyone with training in basic military strategy know better than this.

Not trusting the government, is not against the law. Nor is it against the law to ponder if there might be conspiracies. Yet when you have agencies who are so ready to go off half cocked, using what can only be described as “excessive force” to enforce such relatively minor issues, you have to seriously reconsider just how far government should be trusted, and just who would protect us from agencies overreacting and over-reaching their authority.

Consider this: Is it paranoia if you really are being followed?

Like or Dislike: 0  0

@mooseburger:

“yonason: I guess I’m the weiner the world awaited…..”

No, that would be Obama, just that a lot of people, yourself apparently included, haven’t yet realized it; and the only way some will is to be “mugged by reality.” (essentially what Scheuer sounded to me like he was saying) And, even then some won’t come to their senses, but the rest of us who have will then know who they are, and never trust them again . . . in an ideal world. Unfortunately, that’s not how things work, which is why Scheuer was wrong about what he said (as I DID alude to in my posts “defending” that remark, …as I understood it).

Actually, it wasn’t your criticism of Scheuer that set me off. It was your misplaced faith in “the one.” If you hadn’t been so pro Obama I would have probably let it go, or at least not gone so postal on you.

I got upset because of your faith in Obama , despite the volumes of information available about his negatives, which are very negative and very numerous, while the positive side of the ledger is virtually empty, containing only the false hopes of those he’s conned and his promises that will never be fulfilled.

When you paint us with the Lefty liables, and then have the nerve to preach to us that we aren’t being patient enough with Obama, that’s just too much.

Obama is just doing to the country what he did to his home district in Illinois. They were worse off after his 7 years “representing” them (screwing them over), and we will fare no better. I have no desire to “wait and see what will happen,” because by then it will be too late. As Doug Ross said about that, “Now extend that kind of failure to the entire United States.” So, now you know what you stepped in when you said, “let us hope and pray that Osama can get our country back on track! “, (…and what I stepped in when I read “Obama” in place of “Osama.” – natural mistake, though)

As to the States invoking their rights under the 10th amendment, that’s all well and good. But the fact that they think they have to doesn’t bode well. Even if they are right, the system is only as good as those running it. SCOTUS doesn’t seem to have much backbone, Obama has the executive branch sewn up, and Congress has been hijacked by Loony Leftists. So, when it comes to demanding our Constitutional rights, we still have to rely on forces outside our control, forces many times greater than we are (If the military follows the Lefties, then it will be very bloody if we resist). If it does come to that, we could still win, but only under certain conditions that I don’t yet see developing. I’ve posted on that before, and don’t want to say any more about it at the moment. Still, I think Obama and his pirates have put us in a position that requires action to counter his vile socialist Putsch, and invoking the 10th is certainly one counter measure that can not be passed over.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

@ mooseburger
It was tongue-in-cheek, hence the *que evil music here.*
I know a lot of people that share JustAl’s frustration. I think you may have read more into it than was intended, but as I said earlier, I don’t know JustAl or his intentions. The way I read it was: if the U.S. loses everything we’ve worked for and we’re reduced to a quasi-third world nation, people will begin to rethink their positions on many issues. Right now, we are still a relatively properous nation. If we move in the wrong direction and everyone has to struggle daily just to have enough to eat, (basic struggle to survive) even liberals will wonder why they have to bust their butts while others don’t and reap the rewards of other’s labor.
I just read that the dem’s voted down a provision to exclude illegals from the national healthcare bill. Not only that, illegals will be allowed to reap the rewards of our healthcare without being fined for not joining it. You and I won’t be allowed to “not join” without being fined. source here. And yes, I know Michelle is a conservative blogger, but home girl does her homework.
And to bring this back on topic…this is why I believe the States must invoke the 10th amendment to keep the Feds from running all over us.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

Aqua:
Let me assure you that I am not in any conspiracy to work your or any other blog thru deceptive practices. I am pretty straight up with my views on things, try to be open minded, and if I’m shown to be wrong, I’ll take my lumps, feel like I have learned something, and move on from there. If I think I’m right, I’ll stand my ground. Sometimes folks just have a right to be wrong about some things, and while not an admirable trait, it is an American right to be that way if you like.

I offered before that if further discussion is wanted with me on issues, that Mike (Mike’s America) does have my email address. I don’t care to see it flooded with hate, bile and venom, but I will extend the same invite to you as I did yonason, if you, Aqua, want to email me off group for a civil discussion or to satisfy your curiosity if I am a “plant”, ask Mike for my email and I have no problem with Mike giving it to you.

As for the issue of “planted” comments on Conservative blogs, that probably goes both ways, but the best way to deal with that is to either denounce the hateful or anti American comments with a public “verbal beat down”, or simply edit inappropriate comments out of the threads. There are plenty of nutjobs on both side of the fence, things are extreem enough as it is today. It is important to not only call the hateful or anti American out for what it is, but also to protect whatever good name, values and beliefs you hold so that hateful or inciteful crap doesn’t go out to the masses with your name attached.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

@ mooseburger
Well moose, with your addressing of the bait issue, I have to ask: It seems that some on the left have decided to start posting on conservative blogs and pose as republicans.

Chris Parry, it appears, has advocated on his Daily Kos blog any number of egregious offenses, among them: posting hate speech on sites like Free Republic and blaming it on conservatives.

You can google it to verify. So, how do we know you and JustAl aren’t in on this together. Granted, I’m rather new to FA, but I think that is the first post I’ve ever seen by JustAl.
The plot thinkens. *que evil music here*

Like or Dislike: 0  0

Mata: It is all of the above coupled with the statement “this flawed way of thinking die out (perhaps literally)” meaning Liberals, or however distasteful to some, you could substitute the term “fellow Americans who exhibit the flawed way of thinking”, at least that’s how I read into it.

And to finally address the “bait” issue:
1. yes I do lay bait
2. I don’t mind that you point out I lay bait
3. Yes, I will again confirm that I lay bait
4. I periodically check the bait
5. I sit back and open a Beer
6. I feel a tug on the line…..
7. Damn, friggin’ baits gone, open another Beer and Rebait (the original Rebait program)
8. Outa bait, Outa beer, pack up and go home
9. Sometimes here in Southern Indiana we run a trot line
10. Carpus Delectie, or if that falls through, I visit my good friends Sam and Patty

Like or Dislike: 0  0

First, love the sense of humor moment, moose. LOL Now, perhaps you’ll tell those that remain why JustAl… or anyone, for that matter.. needs to come back to “defend his/her comment as being so morally reprehensible merely for for using the words:

“…when all people are reduced to the basic struggle to survive …”

Wait… maybe you don’t like the words:

collapse of civilization

Or is it that they are both associated with Obama/liberal/progressive policies in the sentence?

Maybe you’ll even differentiate this from Obama’s doom and gloom phrasing for those that are actually interested in this little game? I, personally, am moving on. See you on another day.

Mata

1: you lay bait
2: I pointed out you lay bait
3: you confirmed you lay bait

Like or Dislike: 0  0

yonason: I guess I’m the weiner the world awaited…..

(and yes Mata, that IS set up bait for jokes at my expense)

Like or Dislike: 0  0

@mooseburger:

. . . still awaiting . . .

Like or Dislike: 0  0

Mataa said: “Such a good little o’faithful/progressive devotee you are. *Always* someone else’s fault… even tho it had nothing to do with your retort.”

I’ll take responsibility for my words here, where is JustAl at to take responsibility for his?
And why do you have to be a shill for him in his stead?

Like or Dislike: 0  0