AYE CHIHUAHUA:hi, I see that green logo beside your name,nice,does it represent 2 persons,
bye

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RATDOG:ON your 3. IN 1700 they where realy good in poetry like this
AWAKEN ,I realy like this, thank you for finding it for us. bye

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OH

MY

GOD

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@Wordsmith:

Well Word, you beat me to it.

I had a response all typed up last night but didn’t get a chance to post it due to some really, really nasty weather here. I decided that it would be best to shut down the computer.

The Founding Fathers left a multitude of their thoughts, feelings, and beliefs for the perusal of those of us who are interested enough to find out what they really thought, felt, and believed.

Unfortunately, the accuracy of history is altered by historians, and others, who have the desire to put forth or serve a specific agenda.

There are those, like ghost guru, who put forth falsehoods, either through an innocent lack of knowledge or a malicious desire to mislead those who don’t know any better.

Fortunately, here at FA, lack of knowledge and the perpetuation of myth is called out quickly, loudly, and regularly.

I, like Aqua, don’t know if ghost will reappear or not.

If he has a genuine desire for the truth, this is certainly the place for him to hang out.

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@ Word
Great post, but I doubt he’ll be back. Funny how people from the left like to talk about the lives of the founders, especially if they can throw something like religion into the mix. The one point you brought up about a secular federal government will fly right over his or any other lefty’s head.

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Hmm…unfortunately, the audio player doesn’t embed in comments. Try downloading the mp3 file.

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Although Jefferson had a complex view of religion, too vast for this presentation, the following quotes provide a glimpse of how Thomas Jefferson viewed the corruptions of Christianity and religion.

Those quotes are just cherry-picked to push an agenda. Jefferson did indeed have a “complex view of religion”, and the author tries to simplify it to conform to a secularist’s nationview.

It is not the religious right who are trying to remake America; the revisionists are the militant secularists and atheist extremists, armed with ACLU lawyers, who have misrepresented and obscured the Framers and their original intent. It’s those of us who believe in the Judeo-Christian traditions and heritage that has shaped this country who wish to restore what’s been under assault for the last 60-70 years.

As far as Jefferson, he was an unconventional religious thinker who believed that there was a role for faith to play in a moral society. The Framers believed in a secular federal government and not an established church; but this didn’t mean they felt religious expression should be divorced from the public square or that government should be “untainted” by religion. Most of the evidence points to our early forebears seeking harmony between government and the free expression and exercise of religion.

From the very beginning of our nation’s history, it is ripe with the free-mixing of government and religion. Somehow, since the 1947 Everson vs. Board of Education of Ewing decision, the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise of Religion Clause have been set in conflict. And the ruling was based upon a private letter written by Jefferson and misrepresented (taken out of context) by the Supreme Court (Jefferson wasn’t even in country during the Constitutional Convention, and not involved in the legislative drafting of the First Amendment).

For someone who is touted as desiring a “separation of Church and State” (look to the context of the metaphor in the Danbury letter), Jefferson

-Personally attended and authorized weekly Christian services in the Capitol building itself.

-In 1774, while serving in the Virginia Assembly, Jefferson personally introduced a resolution calling for a Day of Fasting and Prayer.

-In 1779, as Governor of Virginia, Jefferson decreed a day of “Public and solemn thanksgiving and prayer to Almighty God.”

-On March 4, 1805, President Jefferson offered “A National Prayer for Peace,”

-As President, Jefferson signed bills that appropriated financial support for chaplains in Congress and the armed services.

Michael Medved talks about these faith-based initiatives:

[audio:http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-content/uploads/big-lie-3-5-jeffersons-faight-bas.mp3

That doesn’t sound like someone who believes in the separation of Church and State, does it? Regardless of whether a Christian God or your generic religious god. Bottomline is, religious expression was part of life in serving public office. And no one at the time of the Founding Fathers and the subsequent 160 years thought there was anything alarmist about it. Until the ACLU.

Now you can’t even have a commercialized Christmas tree in public school without some intolerant liberal atheist huffing and puffing indignation and offense and non-inclusiveness.

In contrast, far from being an intolerant Christian extremist, what President Bush was is exactly how the majority of the Founders probably would have approved of: embracing and welcoming of people of all faiths and religions. He hosted the first Ramadan dinner in the White House, prayed with Muslim Imams and stressed that Islam was a religion of peace, lit Menorrahs in the White House, etc.

Atheism itself is a belief system. Why should it enjoy special privilege, endorsed by government?

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@ghost guru

OK, so who are these “right wing Christians” that paint Jefferson as one of their own? Since this was about Jefferson, let’s limit the discussion to just him.

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THOMAS JEFFERSON ON CHRISTIANITY & RELIGION

Compiled by Jim Walker

“Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong.”

-Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782)

In spite of right-wing Christian attempts to rewrite history to make Jefferson into a Christian, little about his philosophy resembles that of Christianity. Although Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence wrote of the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God, there exists nothing in the Declaration about Christianity.

Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term “Nature’s God” used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.

Distortions of history occur in the minds of many Christians whenever they see the word “God” embossed in statue or memorial concrete. For example, those who visit the Jefferson Memorial in Washington will read Jefferson’s words engraved: “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every from of tyranny over the mind of man.” When they see the word “God” many Christians see this as “proof” of his Christianity without thinking that “God” can have many definitions ranging from nature to supernatural. Yet how many of them realize that this passage aimed at attacking the tyranny of the Christian clergy of Philadelphia, or that Jefferson’s God was not the personal god of Christianity? Those memorial words came from a letter written to Benjamin Rush in 1800 in response to Rush’s warning about the Philadelphia clergy attacking Jefferson (Jefferson was seen as an infidel by his enemies during his election for President). The complete statement reads as follows:

“The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes, & they [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets against me. . .”

Jefferson aimed at laissez-faire liberalism in the name of individual freedom, He felt that any form of government control, not only of religion, but of individual mercantilism consisted of tyranny. He thought that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.

If anything can clear of the misconceptions of Jeffersonian history, it can come best from the author himself. Although Jefferson had a complex view of religion, too vast for this presentation, the following quotes provide a glimpse of how Thomas Jefferson viewed the corruptions of Christianity and religion.

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Although it’s a shame you guys had to break away – you’ve done exceptionally well over the last 233 years.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

…is a beautifully written and inspiring sentence. Happy Birthday!

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