Larry w: It is the fact that the veterans of the 1979 Islamic revolution — charter members of the “Death to America Culture” — are, in fact, participating and and leading the effort against the “Supreme Leader.”

e.g.,

Moussavi, Khatami, Rafsanjani, etc.

You are a busy guy, so it’s no surprise you are still behind the times. But considering you posted this also on the other Iran thread, I can see you skipped over a very important article I included in a response to Yonason. That being the opposition has lost their charm for Mousavi because of his reluctance to lead and appear, and this is no longer about his candidacy and winning, but about a manipulated election and police thuggery to quell free speech. He has shown himself to be just another opportunist. Then again, only Khomenei shills were allowed to run anyway…

Read the Las Vegas Sun’s reprint of the June 23rd AP article, and you may get up to date.

Now if you can also get up to date on why Iran is going after Britain and the EU as their latest #1 enemy, we’ll all be happy. Hint: has nothing to do with what Obama did or did not say in Cairo, or his impotent, johnny-come-lately non-leadership INRE the election illegitimacy and violence.

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Larry, you’ve been caught trying to smuggle a cherry pie to an apple pie contest, guy. Per your link:

While President Obama continues attracting criticism for a too-tepid stance on the uprising in Iran from neoconservative Republicans and liberal interventionist Democrats alike, experts in Islamic affairs almost universally approve.

Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, the Secretary General of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, told an Atlantic Council audience that President Obama was taking just the right approach to the situation in Iran, balancing a respect for the shared values that the West and the Muslim world share with a respect for the sensibilities that a history of imperialism created.

Similarly, as CSM’s Robert Marquand reports, Obama is getting “high marks from Iranian specialists in Europe.”

“If you support [presidential challenger Mir Hossein] Mousavi too openly, you destroy him,” says Dominique Moisi, a leading French intellectual who has worked extensively on Middle East geopolitics. “So [if you are the American president] you support human rights, you don’t support a particular person. It’s a correct policy of prudence … at this time.”

No where in any of my posts have I demanded that Obama “support” either candidate. In fact I am on record as saying that *is* meddling. (Besides, both are different flavors of scum…)

Thus comes the same quandary as happens with poll results, and you examine how the question was worded. Not one critic was asking Obama to support Mousavi over Ahmadinejad. What we are asking is an undeniable statement of American values that any questionable/stolen election is unacceptable (despite who wins…) without legitimate int’l oversight on the recount, and that human rights abuses is not only unacceptable and not an “internal” problem, but an act that will result in additional repercussions.

Instead, Obama holds on to taking a wait and see, and will negotiate with a dictator and regime that mows down their dissenters and outright steals an election and refuses full recounts with unbiased, third party oversight.

And, if you’ll notice, they agree with me and the others disgruntled with Obama’s wishy washy approach… ala “you support human rights”. Obama did not “support” the demonstrators. He “tut tut’ed” the regime for mowing them down with nary a promise of repercussion.

America does not negotiate with terrorists and despots… especially those in power via coups and brutality right under our noses. Or at least my America doesn’t. Obama’s America apparently has new rules.

So sorry… the “true experts” on Iran you provide are not giving an opinion on anything we disagree with. ala… no support for a particular candidate. So take your cherry pie home… no points for you.

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While waiting for my response to Wordsmith to be resurrected from spam, here’s one to Mata:

http://www.acus.org/new_atlanticist/obama-right-iran-islam-experts

- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA

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reply to 13, 15, 17 went to spam

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What all of my (and Obama’s) critics fail to understand is that what is most important about the goings on in Iran are not the “grass roots” street demonstrations. It is the fact that the veterans of the 1979 Islamic revolution — charter members of the “Death to America Culture” — are, in fact, participating and and leading the effort against the “Supreme Leader.”

e.g.,

Moussavi, Khatami, Rafsanjani, etc.

it’s utterly inconceivable that these Mullah’s would be doing what they are now doing, were Bush still in office and had Obama not given them the cover they needed to do what they are now doing. Haven’t you seen how desperately important it is to the Iranian power structure to try and make the demonstrations appear to be inspired by the West? Today, Ahmadinejad is saying that there’s no difference between George Bush and Obama. He’s saying it, but his people aren’t believing it.

Note to Wordsmith: Thanks for clarifying the point of your Michael Moore reference. I didn’t understand your point initially.

With respect to Iran briefly suspending uranium enrichment, circa 2003 — yes, the invasion had a temporary effect, but this boomeranged later on, once the severe limits of US military capabilities were revealed to the world. The USA became hopelessly overextended, on account of Iraq, and both Iran and North Korea realized that there was no credible threat of an Iraq-style US invasion. So they resumed their nuclear enrichment efforts. As I said, the policies of George W Bush did nothing whatsoever to change the policies of North Korea and Iran — if anything, the Bush policies and actions emboldened both North Korea and Iran.

- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA

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“Always with the negative waves” ~ Oddball, Kelly’s Heroes

Blaming Bush for this is total b*llsh*t. At last count, Islam youth outnumbers the tyrants. It is not impossible for them to successfully revolt, as that country’s own history shows. In fact it is much easier than would be possible in many other countries.

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Sad to say, but I see this Iranian revolt against the mullahs as a direct result of the Bush Presidency seeking to bring freedom to the Middle East.
If you are going to do something, don’t do it by half measures.
The problem is Islam and as long as Islam is a dominant force in their culture, nothing will change, except perhaps a new generation of freedom loving youngsters who have been tricked by the West into believing they had a chance of standing up to murderous Islam will be slaughtered.
In so many of the photographs of demonstrators, so many of them look so secular and Western.
It is so sad to see so many young people, striving for freedom, only to run smack bang into full fundamental murderous Islam.
They don’t have a chance without outside help.
When the coalition pulls out of Iraq, I expect to see the same thing happening there as well, with all those Iraqis who are perceived to have helped the crusader infidels or who are too “Western” in dress or outlook being butchered.

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It’s a shame we can’t set-up radio stations or television to broadcast to those protesters inside Iran and show to them that much of the rest of the free world supports their cause.

A “Radio Free Iran’ as it were.

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No sense even responding to Larry. We will find him in a corner of a smelly Starbucks rocking back and forth chanting stimulus, stimulus, stimulus. Let him be. He’s harmless. He’s probably out razorblading his Obama bumper sticker off the VW wagon as I write this.

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Let’s see, Larry… from the CS Monitor link, that was two critical (Graham and Burt), and two pro (Negroponte and Bouchard) for Obama’s fence straddling. That’s a break even there. Altho Negroponte was not a specific opinion on Obama’s Iran stance, but a review of his foreign policy in general. You have to understand, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, detainees at Bagram (Obama’s new Gitmo) are all a continuation of the Bush foreign policy. You will notice that you can’t find a Negoponte comment specifically addressing Obama’s Iranian fence straddling anywhere on the net. I’m not sure he’s weighed in, since the libs would wave that flag high.

But hey… you’re down in the count for “true” experts, so we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for Negroponte to bolster your spirits. I, personally, don’t buy it until I see him speak on that issue specifically.

Tossing in Negoponte gives you a mean increase of one on “the count” (assuming we don’t find out exactly how many Iranian demonstrators talked to Nico Pitney, and count each individually) just for Nicholas Burns. That would be Clinton’s Soviet nations advisor on his NSC, and Dir of Soviet Affairs for Bush, the elder. He was with the Clinton admim the entire term, an serving as Ambassador to Greece in the last 3-4 years under Clinton. He then became the Ambassador to NATO until retiring in 2008.

So far, one big time “Iranian expert”, eh? And hardly a Bush (either one) devotee… just in case you’re looking for a Dubya Defection. He’s one of those international types of guys… a big EU fan, CFR member etal. Can you say globalist and “citizen of the world”?

But an Iranian expert? Maybe you don’t even deserve a full point for that one… LOL

Burns still goes up against the *true* Iranian experts I provided, Michael Ledeen, Joshua Muravchik, and protesters in the street (thru CNN) and on the Iran Updates comments site.

As I said, there will never be a consensus as long as humans inhabit the planet. For every one you can give me, I can come up with another counter. So that’s an exercise in futility.

The point is, whether Obama supports them or not, the US is blamed as part of the uprising… as is Iran’s history. They actually make very good Democrats. Nothing is ever *their* fault. They are always the “victim” of someone for their shortcomings and brutality.

This makes the “foil” argument moot… and leaves you all predicting parallel universes about how much “worse” the bloodbath would be… “if”….

Sorry… parallel universes and sewage filled crystal balls don’t fly as fact.

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