@Wordsmith: ” Cary’s far more courteous and open-minded than you might give him credit for”

Au contraire. I give him PLENTY of credit for being willing to exhibit his views here.

As for listening to Obama. I admit it’s difficult for me to listen to his speeches. But countless times I have read and reread the transcripts of his addresses and those of his Press Secretary Robert Gibbs.

That’s why I offered Cary the option of reading selected excerpts from Cheney’s speech if he found his tone too difficult.

You see, I do empathize with him after all.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

Mike,

I haven’t read every comment Cary’s every posted here; but of what I’ve read, of visiting his blog, I’d say Cary’s far more courteous and open-minded than you might give him credit for. He may stick to his views; but the very fact that he visits here at all is a good thing. Of course you’re right: it would help if he’d watch Cheney’s speech before commenting.

He should watch and listen to Cheney’s speech every bit as much as we should pay attention to Obama’s speech. But what sounds insightful to us may be inciteful to others; and I don’t expect that Cary’s views will change from Cheney’s speech; I don’t think he’ll be moved by it and impressed in the manner that we are by it.

I can empathize with him on the time factor. Listening to Cheney’s speech may not be high on his priority list of things to do, but then neither is reading and watching a great number of things I should make the time for, myself. We all lead busy lives.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

@Cary: I understand that the time and attention span of every reader is limited and it would seem yours is more limited than most.

But if you had spent half the time you have commenting by actually WATCHING the Cheney speech you might have a better understanding of where we are coming from.

You’ve directed readers to a number of links here and we have also rebutted those articles in posts and comments. So, I don’t think it’s too much of an imposition to ask you to watch the entire video or at least read the excerpts carefully.

P.S. From the treatment many of us receive when we visit left wing sites, I’d say you are much more welcome and treated respectfully here than we are in the opponents camp. By a country mile.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

@Mike’s America:

No Mike, I am indeed not going to tell you that I’m surrounded by Conservatives. I will tell you that there are more in my circle of friends than it would seem you would think.

Like I said, I shall take your advice, but you’ll have to wait for a response, I’m working 15 – 30 hours straight some nights between four jobs.

“It takes a very strong and independent person to buck the mindset of the vast majority around them and be different. It’s easier to go along to get along.”

I appreciate your understanding of what it’s like for me here on your site.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

@Cary: New York may have changed for the better since I left. THANK YOU RUDY GIULIANI! But I seriously doubt the liberal bubble has disappeared and now all points of view are welcomed with open arms.

A good friend of mine still lives there. When we were at school together in Ohio he was very open and receptive to conservative ideas. The minute he moved to New York he adopted the prevailing liberal attitudes.

Surely you are not going to try and tell me that you are surrounded by conservatives?

It takes a very strong and independent person to buck the mindest of the vast majority around them and be different. It’s easier to go along to get along.

Again, I’m waiting for you to inform me that you are demonstrating your open-mindedness by listening to the entire Cheney speech.

Meanwhile, I’m working on posting a more extensive review of analysis of the two speeches.

Don’t fall too far behind.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

@Mike’s America:

Alright, I reread your bio, and I was a decade off. Historically, things were not pretty here at all when you lived here, so I can certainly understand your feelings about NYC. I think you’d be pleasantly surprised at the difference if you were to visit now. It’s changed a lot for the better, and a lot of credit goes to our last two mayors, both repeatedly elected in spite of an R next to their names.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

@Mike’s America:

in the nearly twenty years that I’ve lived here, the city has changed dramatically. When exactly did you live here? I’m gonna bet it was even before I got here, probably around in the 70′s, when things were very very different everywhere than they are now, for many reasons.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

@Cary: I lived in New York. When I say it’s a bubble in which reality is redefined I am speaking from experience. I also lived in Washington, DC… same story.

If I had not had the benefit of growing up in Ohio and now living in SC these many years I would be more inclined to swallow the shopworn shibboleths you give credence too.

Do me a favor and listen to the Cheney speech.

I have a host of other analysis which provides extensive counterpoint to the other sources you mention and will post links and excerpts of them later in the day.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

Sorry Cary.. my above comment should read to Fit. I managed to combine his link with your “I agree” comment.

Yeah… Ellis. What a bozo… Doesn’t know the difference between terrorists detained/arrested by law enforcement, and those detained/captured by our soldiers on the battle field. They just mesh together in his pea brain. But then, I can forgive Ellis his idiocy. He’s merely a member of the political whores that attempt to pass themselves off as “journalists”.

Then again, hearing my POTUS echo the same… the “law enforcement” theory, and “package” that crap off to the public as equivalent… is unforgiveable. I can live with no cure for stupid INRE Ellis. I can’t when it’s the CIC of the US military forces.

You may want to read up on that law enforcement vs detainees from the battlefield argument a bit more closely. They are not apples and apples, as Ellis suggests. After all, before they can arrest a terrorist on US soil, they already have some viable evidence… like laptops, emails, surveillance etc. Or else they try to get him temporarily on a material witness warrant (Padilla).

Arrest a guy shooting at you on the battlefield? Don’t think he’s got his laptop fired up with the Afghan/Iraq wifi while looking at our soldiers down his sights. You have to start from scratch, and build the case that will stand up in a federal court of law.

Ponder this fact… US law does not allow for investigative detention…. exactly what is needed with detainees captured on the battlefield. Pull them into this US federal system, and much evidence obtained can be thrown out.

Like or Dislike: 0  0

@Mike’s America:

I’m more than glad to take any of your advice, if I haven’t already, in regards to what you recommend I should read or listen to, when I have the time.

But I would, in return, ask that when you are tempted to accuse me of living in a “fantasy bubble” because of where I live, consider that it’s because of where I live that I’m aware of the realities within the discussion on this topic., and have a strong perspective on them. Thanks.

Like or Dislike: 0  0