The Office of Legal Counsel Released (“Torture”) Memos- Open Thread

Treasonous. More and more treason. Grounds for impeachment are impending.

@Rodney:

Kids? Abu Zubaydah? Khalid Sheikh Mohammad? Abd al Rahim al Nahiri? Trust any of them on a playground near you?

______________________________________________________________

Thanks Word, my computer won’t let me do pdf, but I did read the oped by Mukasey and Hayden.

It’s disturbing that this president seems to toss bones to the left everytime he gets in the weeds for something they don’t like. He does trade offs, once we see he is doing something that upsets his base, expect him to toss them a biggie like this, country be damned.

Back to the oped. They are warning that this totally stupid move by Obama is going to put the CIA back to pre 911, that they won’t have the confidence they need to do their jobs.

Couple that with gifting our blood thirsty enemies:

Although evidence shows that the Army Field Manual, which is available online, is already used by al Qaeda for training purposes, it was certainly the president’s right to suspend use of any technique. However, public disclosure of the OLC opinions, and thus of the techniques themselves, assures that terrorists are now aware of the absolute limit of what the U.S. government could do to extract information from them, and can supplement their training accordingly and thus diminish the effectiveness of these techniques as they have the ones in the Army Field Manual.

Now, I’m sure Obama thinks he knows more than Hayden and Mukasey, but I’m going to trust their judgement over his.

It would be really interesting to know how many attacks were prevented because of the information we received from these simple and harmless techniques. I guess sharing that data would be counter productive for BO!

You can download adobe acrobat 8.0 for free. Do it so that you too can read the memos released by the anti american traitors in this administration. When they are voted out of office, I hope the next administration releases all the love notes received and sent by Mr. Obama and Hillary Clinton and from all the commies and ruthless dictators they are now sucking up to.

Let me note the obvious: Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to deter Obama from his objectives on the war against “man-made disasters” until we have another man-made disaster in the Untied States. By the time that happens he will have set us back beyond where we began.

With the MSM and Congress in his pocket, we can protest until the sun rises on the west, but the sickening facts are that the majority of this country think he knows what he’s doing. That’s not exactly a recommendation for the common sense for the majority of this country….

@Hard Right:

I think you are right. After posting this morning, I found this this afternoon, he knew it was coming. He better make the effort to convince the world that our agents did not torture or our CIA will be harassed or tried until the end of time, the bad guys win:

In a brief telephone interview with The Associated Press, Manfred Nowak, an Austrian who serves as a U.N. special rapporteur in Geneva, said the United States had committed itself under the U.N. Convention against Torture to make torture a crime and to prosecute those suspected of engaging in it.

“They are party to the convention and the convention is very, very clear,” Nowak said when asked to confirm comments contained in an interview he gave Austria’s Der Standard newspaper. “The fact that you carried out an order doesn’t relieve you of your responsibility,” he said, adding it could be a mitigating factor.

Nowak, who said he would soon travel to Washington for meetings with officials, also called for a comprehensive independent investigation into the matter and added it was important to compensate the victims.

“Now we need to know all the facts – not just bits and pieces,” Nowak said. “First you need the truth, and then you need justice.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/18/politics/100days/main4953883.shtml?source=RSSattr=U.S._4953883

>>“First you need the truth, and then you need justice.” >>

If this means they intend to go after Bush, I think there’ll be he** to pay. If that is what it takes to get us out of the UN, it might not be a bad thing, but it won’t happen if it’s up to Obama. Things will have to go from bad to worse and back again.

Torture of course should only be used for the “right” reasons, and only by those on the right. Torture was the only way to save Western European civilization from the epidemic of satanic witchcraft during the middle ages. Through the correct use of torture many many witches were made to confess and also to identify other witches including the very difficult to find so called “sleeper witches”
Torture is only good for obtaining confessions. You want confessions than go ahead and torture. Everyone who breaks the law should be prosecuted in court. Whether for leaking selectively leaking state secrets or for torture. The agents that tortured should be prosecuted, if at the end of the trial the Executive Branch wishes to grant them clemency so be it. BUT this is a nation of laws. Period.

So basically the al Qaeda terrorist now know nothing will happen to you, so go for it.

The similar thing can be tested for accuracy, put a sugn in front of your house proudly stating “no guns in the house’ and check back, if you are able, with us in afew months with an update.

The fear of what you don’t know is worht than the act itself.

Next one is all yours Barry.

Proof, you nailed it. Bet they wouldn’t line up or volunteer for having electrodes
placed on their genitals and hooked to a car battery.

Now that’s a warm friendly handshake if I ever seen one.

@mooseburger: Mossy are you spamming with that totally irrelevant link?

It’s sick that obama turns his back on people fighting to stay free (and alive), while he makes friends with people who makes their political opposition “disappear”. I have no doubt chavez’s political opposition is getting more than a little water poured on their face.

@Aye Chihuahua:

You’re right, Aye, I did fail to leave a source.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/world/20detain.html?_r=1&hp

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5185835/CIA-waterboarded-Khalid-Sheikh-Mohammed-183-times.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0420/p99s01-duts.html

I know Conservatives don’t hold the NY Times up as great journalism, I understand that. But where did they get these figures? If the information is tainted, how off would you say the figures are? Even if this occurred 20 times, the same argument can be made, ait seems to me. So, in your opinion, in what way is this information tainted, and what does this all mean?

@Missy:

Well, there does seem to be a contradiction there, thanks for pointing that out. But it doesn’t answer my question. If one is subjected to waterboarding techniques multiple times, and nothing is found out, should these techniques be continued?

Personally, I couldn’t care less about a terrorist – if he’s guilty, do what you want with him. I say cut him up without meds, remove any usable organs, and give them to those whose lives can be saved with them. Give the rest to Purina for zoo animal feed.

But my question is how about how effective this technique is.

I don’t think that torture would be such a huge political issue if it weren’t for Abu Ghirab, when the public’s eye was turned to this. Unfortunately, those who were tortured there were not terrorists, but civilians caught in a general sweep. This leaves people like me to wonder where the line is drawn between those who are guilty and whom torture will yield life saving results, and those who are innocent but perhaps suspected. How do we know without trials?

@Missy:

I have a kinder regard for Bush than a lot of my friends, for whom starting off with Rove on Fox is probably not the most persuasive opening! LOL – But I have an open mind, and if indeed there are such documents, I think we have a right to see them, and that the administration has a responsibility to allow us.

I disagree with you on the torture/abuse definitions, although we seem to be pretty much on the same page in that regard otherwise. My point is that is was that scandal which turned the public’s attention to the issue of torture.

No, I missed the discussions about your nephew’s service and assignments. I realize that this makes the issue that much closer to you and your family, so thank you for a calm, civil discussion while emotions are undoubtedly high. And thanks to your nephew for his service. That must be quite a difficult job, indeed.

I will stay alert for news on the other documents. Perhaps they can answer my previous questions.