Now this is interesting if true, and not surprising in the least. (h/t Ex-Liberal In Hollywood)
Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:
1. BHO wouldn’t authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams to the scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation.
2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE that they couldn’t do anything unless the hostage’s life was in “imminent” danger
3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction
4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.
5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN and SEAL teams.
6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR finally decide they have the OpArea and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies
7. BHO immediately claims credit for his “daring and decisive” behaviour. As usual with him, it’s BS.
So per our last email thread, I’m downgrading Oohbaby’s performace to D-. Only reason it’s not an F is that the hostage survived.
Read the following accurate account.
Philips’ first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn’t worked out as well. With the Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country’s Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors — and none was taken.
The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States, Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage’s life was in clear, extreme danger.
The next day, a small Navy boat approaching the floating raft was fired on by the Somali pirates — and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a mandate from the commander in chief’s staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a “peaceful solution” would be acceptable.
After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on scene commander decided he’d had enough.
Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage’s life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before, the Navy officer — unnamed in all media reports to date — decided the AK47 one captor had leveled at Philips’ back was a threat to the hostage’s life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.
Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Philips was safe.
There is upside, downside, and spinside to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday’s dramatic rescue of an American hostage.
Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president’s toughness and decisiveness.
Despite the Obama administration’s (and its sycophants’) attempt to spin yesterday’s success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort.
What should have been a standoff lasting only hours — as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location — became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.
Shocking! Not…..
Yes, I know its secondhand information but I have a feeling we will be hearing more about this caper in the days and months to come and it won’t be flattering to the President, who can’t make a decision to save his life it seems.
This time it wasn’t that O couldn’t make a decision to save HIS life, if the story is correct, O had a whole lot of trouble making a decision to save Captain Phillips’ life. That’s the worry with O. So many lives depend on his ability to make wise, decisive decisions.
Barrack Hussein Obama= the 12th Imam. rememeber 2012 is when iran says the 12th imam will come and destroy all infidels and obama is laying the ground work
Hmmm. Pretty much what I suspected. I had wondered why the mooj weren’t taken under fire when Phillips jumped the first time, nor when the supply boat took rounds- that looked to me like the Commander-in-Training-Pants’ vetos. And then the report that Obambi “twice authorized” the ‘immediate danger’ orders. Jesus- intervention in that situation has been part of damn near every command’s Standing Orders pretty much since John Paul Jones. I smelt a big, big, rat there and kinda figured what occurred was a *refusal* to authorize kinetic action, followed by the OSC confirming that at least the SO remained in effect.
And I really did imagine a exasperated CDR Castellano finally looking around the bridge and going, “You know, gentlemen, it seems to me the hostage is in immediate danger. Anyone disagree?”
We all know he voted “present” on this like has on everything else in his career. He lucked out the maritime law and proper protocols benefited whatever he did. Obama was in a win-win situation because no matter what he said he could leave himself an out. That is exactly what he did.
I have no problem believing this story. BO’s behaviour appears exactly as his personality would dictate, which is why I was pleasantly surprised at the sudden successful resolution last week – bad guys all dead and one captured, all friendlies and their property secure. Just the way it should be.
But I would want to see some confirmation. One blog post does not cut it for me. If the story turns out to be true, it will be a major, major embarassment for BO.
Sounds right! Feeds into all my preconcieved notions about BO. So . . . no dice. I’ll wait until Congress holds hearings and such before I believe this is the true truth, and not some right-wing trumped-up troofiness. What? Congress doesn’t hold hearings when this President claims to have given the order to kill innocent members of the Somolian ‘voluntary coast guard’? You’re kidding, right?
Did you all know that Biden and Hillary have been fired on in the Indian Ocean?
Bottom line: CO DDG-98 will get a good reaming and most likely his career will “stagnate” all of a sudden. What for the video of the change of command in the future. I bet no medal (normally a Meritorious Service Medal – MSM, in my day, would have been the standard award for a departing CO) will be pinned on his uniform, as a result of the embarrassment he caused the President by doing his duty as sworn, while the President was not doing his duty, as sworn.
This is becoming scary. I don’t buy into the wild eyed tin foil hat guys, but cutting the military budget, dumping BMD, telling our people to not shoot (LBJ and Carter didn’t even get that specific – and they too were ineffective C-in-Cs), releasing a report (it’s his watch, it’s to his “credit”) saying veterans were a danger to the US society, letting GTMO detainees go, tossing methods and procedures into open source for intel collection…closing foreign “locations,” angling for a rapid pull out from Iraq, telling the world we would no longer dictate to them, ………….
Tell me I’m a nut case…or onto something…I need a little confirmation, either way.
The accounts depicted in this blog are bogus.
Regards,
Prez O
this is all really starting to get freaky. did he hope the ship captain would be killed by the pirates and he could ask for grief from everyone because he tried his best? this is one of the most believable stories of absolute lack of experience i have ever heard. it is totally believable. and what would obama doo if it was his brother as a hostage? wait we will never find out, his would most likely be the pirate, i mean why not, he already has one that is a sexual preditor.
This seems reminiscent of Clinton – good campaigner, lousy decision maker. Would help if he didn’t hate the military, didn’t want to risk any hard call that might come back to haunt him.
More than willing to take the praise, so he’s got that going for him. The other stuff, not so good in a C in C.
Team Obama Lightning Response Action Squad :
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/04/o-lightning-response-team.html
luva:
No, I think Barry really, truly believed that ‘negotiations’ solve everything, without icky bloodshed.
This fits my idea of what I suspect obama would do, however I want more proof.
it won’t be flattering to the President, who can’t make a decision to save his life it seems.
Or anyone else’s, apparently.
This answers the question I had as to why the Captain could not be rescued when he first jumped off the lifeboat. And I guess my next question is why the name of the commander on scene is not known. Is it to protect the commander or to protect Obama?
Yep – sounds like hearsay to me.
When Cpt Phillips made his first escape attempt, it could have been interpreted that his life was in extreme danger – so the Commander on the scene could have made the call to use snipers. But as we weren’t there and at the end of the day it was a positive result – I give the Commander the benefit of the doubt. Seems to me he did the right thing. Has Capt Phillips complained about this?
Everything seems to be Obama’s fault even when things end up going well. I know how you hate those democrats who constantly had nothing but criticism for Bush – this just seems the same – so why stoop to their level?
I smelled a rat the minute the reports came that BHO had “signed off” on the rescue operation TWICE. The military is not hard of hearing. They obviously were asking for something that BHO was unwilling to provide, like leadership.
MI
Steaming. Turd.
This is an interesting account, but I’d really like to see some confirmation and corroborating evidence. When Bush was in power, HuffPo, Daily Kos, etc. would regularly embarrass themselves by publishing liberal fantasy versions of “what REALLY happened” with Bush always cast as an evil moron. This sounds like it could be the same kind of thing, only the other way around.
Mind you, I’m not saying it’s false. But before I believe it, I’d like to see some evidence.
Obama is such a dumb jackass.
I also wondered why nobody shot at the somalis when your captain jumped in the water. What better chance to pop them than then???
Now I understand…..it was the jackass Obama at work.
I think the CPN and SEALS CDR must have shouted, “It’s coming right for us!” just before the snipers took their shots.
Looks like BHO took his usual position and voted ‘present’ as long as he possibly could without becoming an national embarassment.
Gaffa, the outrage here is not at what Obama did during the crisis, but his shameless theft of credit he did not deserve afterwards.
@Bill
Is it? Reading these posts seems like both to me.
As Militant Infidel points out, this account explains why Obama had to sign off on his orders twice before situation resolution.
“They’re the superheroes,” Richard Phillips said. “They’re the titans. They’re impossible men doing an impossible job, and they did the impossible with me. … They’re at the point of the sword every day, doing an impossible job every day.”
http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/6A589E0E-9317-4F66-AAA9-38CB89B55B66/
“*…the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president’s toughness and decisiveness.
Captain Phillips gave full credit to his rescuse to the US military and never mentioned President Obama… I guess Captain Phillips would know who to thank, after all he was there and lived thu this ordeal.
.
Is this not the very same B.S. that soldiers had to deal with when they were in Somolia?
I can see this is going to be worse than I thought it could possibly get.
I guess we are going back to the Carter, Clinton Rules of Engagement where the Troops get put in harms way, but don’t get to keep a loaded clip.
This is easy to believe and if true, will not be confirmed by any officials. At least not on the record and not soon enough.
How did we allow this guy to be POTUS again?
This man is extremely dangerous.
Do you realize that he has the launch codes?
Rush said these were young black Muslim teenagers who wanted to go home but Obama ordered they be killed, which is which?
1 GaffaUK @ 17:
While I have no doubt that the imposed ROE (Rule(s) Of Engagement) had a “chilling” effect on the response of the OSC (On Scene Commander) during Phillip’s escape attempt, it is much more complicated than “having them dialed in” and not taking the shot.
Because the pirates were thought to be armed with RPG’s, the commander would have rightfully kept his major assets well out of range, likely at least 500-1000 meters. The ROE probably prevented him from having “swimmers” in the water which would have been close enough (likely directly underneath) to be in a position to respond quickly. Taking a high probability shot from a moving platform to a moving target is damn near impossible even at close range, and becomes exponentially more difficult at long range. The only response would have been “directed” fire, which would have endangered Phillips immensely.
The reason Phillip’s escape attempt was unsuccessful, was a paucity of assets which could have responded to it. This was due to command limitations, either an “oversight” BY the OSC, or due to “oversight” FROM the NCA (National Command Authority). I will leave it to you to determine which is responsible.
MI
The key element of this report — the ROE — has been corroborated by mainstream reports: Obama DID order that no action be taken unless the hostage’s life was in imminent peril. Even if there was a chance to take out the pirates without risk to the hostage, this was not to be done.
When the captain jumped in the water and the pirates were allowed to retrieve him, I thought: “WTF? No one was ready at the machine gun to waste the pirates when this guy got clear?” Then the ROE came out and provided an alternative explanation.
The clear implication is that Obama WANTED to negotiate with the pirates. He is eager to change the “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” norm. This guy actually WANTS to negotiate with terrorists. He wants to give them a seat at the table and make concessions to them.
I cannot fathom what the next major military incident would be like, either civilian American lives or American military personnel at risk of being killed by terrorists, while BHO hems and haws on ROE and executive orders and keep counting on peaceful outcomes against terrorists who does not follow ROE or the laws. His indecision would surely cause serious loss of lives and he can rationalize his lying ass anyway he can get out of that.
ROI is now the old ROE. ROI (Rules of Incompetency). Amazing, not even 90 days into his Presidency and this fool was forced by public opinion to act. I think the American people are going to have to make a decision to save their lives and it’s forcing this fool to resign.
Militant Infidel:
Yes, but….
Assuming ‘decisive’ authorization from NCA, as in “engage and destroy earliest opportunity consistent with hostage safety,” then when Phillips jumped we were no longer in a sniper/SOF framework: assuming the obvious, that Bainbridge had one or both of her .50 HMGs rigged, then the moment Phillips was clear that boat would have been confetti.
Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage’s life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before…
So you are saying that the CO had NO contact with superiors for 24 hours during this time?
WOW, just WOW!
Imagine, if you will that George W. Bush had been the President when this incident occurred, the headlines would probably read something like this:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/RidesAPaleHorse/Obamination/pirateheadline.jpg
I thought the most interesting part of this story was when they showed the crew after Phillips was rescued. They were very angry about something! They were shouting, and there was a microphone that you could see, but their words couldn’t be understood, at least by me.
Another point of interest was that the crew was returned home and THEN Phillips was returned home. There was no meeting between Phillips and the crew. Wouldn’t there normally be a get together and party for ALL the returning heroes? Just asking.
Was Hussein waiting for an OK from the UN? From Saudi Arabia? From George Soros? Rahm?What is it about the reluctance the left has for taking out terrorists? Clinton and Osama, now Hussein and these scum pirates. The only people for whom execution/murder seems perfectly acceptable are American citizens…preferably white and male. I wonder if and when actual Americans are going to reclaim our nation?
Well didn’t Obama say he would find OBL and take him out during the campaign? Now, he is hesitant to take out some pirates?
This does make sense because any good Seal Team could have come up with a rescue plan within 24 hours of arrival on scene or sooner.
The Navy ships kept the lifeboat from heading toward shore and away from potential pirate “mother ship” as I read it so they surely could have gotten Phillips out sooner if allowed to do so.
ROE like this from NCA are disturbing if not ridiculous.
BTW, when is Obama going to get OBL?
I always though it was something like that. The Navy press release and even the the news reports made a big deal of “Immanent Danger.” It almost seemed there was a chorus in the background singing, “Impermanent Danger. Immanent Danger.” The Navy was backing up their captain.
If nothing else, this indicates a profound mistrust of the upper echelons of the Chain of Command. That’s never a good thing.
The Zero has been tested again, and found wanting. This is going to cost us in blood, big time.
No need for 2nd hand information. The facts come straight from the briefing itself. This was the report as the story occurred and as briefed by the Admiral to the press following the safe recovery of Captain Phillips.
Facts:
http://waronterrornews.typepad.com/home/2009/04/capt-phillips-free.html
First to call out the Glory Hounds:
http://waronterrornews.typepad.com/home/2009/04/glory-hounds.html
What happened the next time pirates saw Old Glory flying from a merchant: http://waronterrornews.typepad.com/home/2009/04/pirate-attack.html
How did it turn out? How did rushing into Iraq turnout?
Bill @ 35:
Using a deck mounted .50 BMG at a range of a kilometer would have put anybody trying to swim to safety (most likely swimming directly toward your muzzle) in grave danger.
The only recourse would have been to have assets closer to the boat at that moment. I suspect that the SEALs wanted to have divers using oxygen rebreather gear (no bubbles) in position near the lifeboat in case such an opportunity presented itself. This was probably overruled by NCA as a “rescue mission” instead of negotiations. Fortunately, the pirates allowed themselves to be “reeled in” like a trophy fish so that deck mounted assets such as snipers could perform the “rescue” without it being a “rescue mission”. It was still a damn good shot. It is good to see the Navy protecting their own. I would say Phillips was in “imminent danger” the entire ordeal.
MI
@Ummmm: “Rushing into Iraq???”
How many UN resolutions were there on the subject of Iraq? Do you even KNOW?
How many years did we struggle with Saddam’s failure to comply with the UN disarmament agreements?
If that was rushing perhaps we should have waited another year after being attacked at Pearl Harbor in 1941 just to give negotiations another chance!
I actually don’t have a problem with the time aspect. The French rushed their rescue and one of the hostages died as a result. One has to remember that the Seal teams were rotating on and off duty and getting sleep the whole time. I doubt those pirates got much sleep for 4 days. A fatigued enemy is a slow enemy that is easily defeated.
Having said all of that, I’m sure Ol’ Barry would have thrown the fine individuals on the mission to the wolves in a heartbeat!
@Mike’s America: Here’s what I see. Captain is safe, pirates are dead.
If punishing the bad actors don’t matter, maybe we should have gone to Iraq after Pearl Harbour in 1941.
Someone doesn’t seem to remember that Bush thought that proclamation of consent by congress applied not only to Afghanistan, but anyplace where the enemy was. The democraps cried they need new authorization, so that they could be on record voting to go to Iraq. They fought for floor time to make “patriotic” speeches. Then when we did go in made a 90Deg turn, the rest is history. So please tell me again how we rushed into Iraq. Your a fool with a short memory.
When Captain Phillips attempted his escape, the SEALs were not there yet and it is highly unlikely that the Bainbridge had the necessary sniper rifles on board, plus the lifeboat was further away than it was when they finally made the kills. A Navy ship has a good amount of small arms, rifles, machine guns, and pistols, and probably some pretty good shots, but nothing that would compare with the certainty of the SEALs. Remember that the lifeboat was being towed by the Bainbridge and was just some eighty feet astern, so it was any easy shot when they got the ‘pirates’ to stick their heads out of the hatches. If they used .50 cal sniper rifles, what head…? Still have not heard what was done with the bodies??
Errol, ask and ye shall receive!
From a crewmember aboard USS Boxer:
————————————————
At 0930 USS Boxer sits of the coast of Somalia and the Bainbridge is at her stern on the port side in tow, the life boat containing three lifeless pirates dispatched into oblivion by the best sharpshooters the world around.
The corpses are transferred under the heaviest morgue security I’ve seen since President Ford’s funeral to the USS Boxer’s chilled holding facility.
At 1000 the lifeboat from Alabama is hoisted onto Boxer’s flight deck by the local crane.
I was there when the boat arrived onboard. Standing next to some chopper refueling buddies and joking about the incident.
“Hey, what’s orange, full of blood and hanging from a crane?”
“What?”
“That boat that some pirates got smoked in.”
Probably the most interesting Easter I’ve ever spent!
Looking closely at the boat, I see four large bullet holes on the STB side where “justice” entered the pirate’s mind’s, some brain matter sloshed around in the boat.
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2009/04/watching-pirates-get-splattered-from.html
An interesting not-quite-an-eyewitness report. Interesting that he claims four shots. If he’s correct, it would mean that there were four snipers sent out, for four pirates (one subtracted only later). I would expect that two would then have been tasked to the target holding the AK on the hostage, just to be sure.
Striaght Scoop. Notice who the Authority who gave the debrief.
How the rescue happened
Posted By Uncle Jimbo
I just finished listening to the press conference w/ ADM Gortney about the rescue of Captain Phillips. At the time it happened the USS Bainbridge was towing the lifeboat to calmer waters as the sea state was deteriorating. One of the pirates was on board the Bainbridge as the talks about obtaining Phillip’s release continued. The lifeboat was approx. 25 m behind the Bainbridge when snipers on the fantail observed one of the pirates in the pilot house of the lifeboat pointing an AK-47 at the back of a tied up Phillips and the other two pirates on board were visible (at least shoulders and heads). The standing authority gave them clearance to engage the pirates if the life of the captain was in imminent danger. The on scene commander deemed this to be true and gave the order to fire. All three bad guys were taken out and then a rigid inflatable boat went to the lifeboat to retrieve Phillips. Iti is unknown at this point whether the shooters were SEALs or Marine Scout Snipers as both would have been available. This was not a rescue attempt ordered by National Command Authority i.e. the President. It was a reaction by the on scene commander under standard authority to safeguard the life of a hostage.
The AP is reporting that President Obama gave the order to use military force to rescue the hostage, that is misleading.
WASHINGTON (AP)—Administration officials say President Barack Obama approved the military operation that rescued a U.S. captain held hostage by Somali pirates.
The officials say Obama ordered the Defense Department to use military resources to rescue Richard Phillips from a lifeboat off the Somali coast.
He did affirm the military’s authorization to use force if the captain’s life was in danger, but they already would have had that authorization as part of their standard rules of engagement. If there are innocents about to be slaughtered the same reasoning that authorizes self defense also covers an imminent execution unless the ROE specifically forbid it.The AP is making it sound like there was an active rescue ordered by the President. It was not, there was an imminent threat and the local commander gave the order to fire.
Now you have word from the breifing with an Authority Cited. Nothing else has to be said. Check on it.
The coward in chief is a coward. Please pass this on,
This quote from Will Smith in “I, Robot” will be used time and time again over the next four years:
You know, somehow, “I told you so” just doesn’t quite say it.
Time for armed conflict with canker sored liberals.
Is this any surprise to anyone? No expierence with anything except taxing & spending.
We are in deep trouble.
Obummer,
The Idealistic Fool. How could we expect a “community Organizer” to have the balls or make a decision to take the pirates or anyone else out?
What a lame administration we have inherited, $800,000,000,000.00 A Billion is one thousand Millions! Are we up to our necks or what!
@Satch
yeah Obama really screwed up there with three pirates dead, one captured and with Capt Phillips rescued alive. Of course the Seals did their job and are the ones to congratulate – but they made the call based on the instructions they were given.
Gaffa, you’re missing the whole point. The Navy made the call IN SPITE OF the ‘instructions’ they were given. Obama dithered for five days and told the OSC, twice, that a “peaceful resolution” was “the only acceptable option.” He voted ‘present,’ once again.
The credit goes to CDR Castellano, who made the call knowing the risk to his career. Obama is a lying glory-hound. Follow the link above to waronterrornews. Blackfive also has the straight poop.
Too bad — this has been debunked pretty thoroughly (via HotAir): http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/22/obama-okd-2-seal-teams-for-pirates/
Makes me wonder if the story might have been lefty ploy to get the righty-blogosphere into a frenzy which could then be slapped down. It sounded kinda over-the-top too me anyhow, as if someone with a little knowledge of how the chain of command works was play-acting how they thought it might go.
And you believe the Obama White House….why? Because of its unimpeachable rcord for telling the truth without spin?
Of course Obama approved the SEALs- he would have to- but Jones’ account PROVES the stupid ROE- and confirms, indirectly, that the OSC acted on his own initiative. Even Jones confirms the “peaceful resolution” item- proof enough of Obama’s dithering gutlessness.
re: Bill at comment number 50:
“An interesting not-quite-an-eyewitness report. Interesting that he claims four shots. If he’s correct, it would mean that there were four snipers sent out, for four pirates (one subtracted only later). I would expect that two would then have been tasked to the target holding the AK on the hostage, just to be sure.”
actually, i believe there were probably five shooters – and they all might not have been SEALS. the Bainbridge’s normal crew compliment would include USMC Scout Snipers also. either way, they already had the fourth pirate onboard the Bainbridge, so they knew exactly how many shooters were needed. two were timed a split-second ahead to take out the plexiglass windows of the covered boat. (easy to do if trained to engage when hearing/feeling the “muzzle break” of the other shooter) in sniper parlance, these were “trick” shots – although some might say that ALL sniper shots are trick shots.
the last thing the pirates actually heard or saw was the windows shattering.
PS: snipers usually use a spotter, and that spotter usually gives the final command “send it” instead of “fire” – which means the sniper can then engage on his own rhythm and timing. this was not one of those shoots. this was a “volley” shoot, on command. EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.
(full disclosure: i helped rewrite the USMC Scout Sniper Instructor course. got to shoot it also. had a perfect score on the 600yd line iteration with the 7.62 M40 scoped sniper rifle and was awarded the coveted USMC Scout Sniper Instructor coin from the NCOIC of the school.)
Reeko:
What you’re saying makes sense; another e-mail circulating which claims to be the “straight poop” indicates that there were four shooters, and the first one punched out the window with a wadcutter round.
But USMC Scout Snipers as part of Bainbridge’ ship’s company? If so, that’s new since I was in the Canoe Club- and putting a pair on every surface combatant would mean well over 200 highly trained elite grads of the Scout Sniper course floating around the world’s oceans. Surely we don’t have enough of them for that, do we?
(Still no reliable word on the rifles used: Mk 11, M40, M82?)
Bill,
i don’t have any inside info on this. i was only assuming. are u saying that email only suspects that another shooter was used or is it from one of the players involved? it makes sense to me…
i also misunderstood the Bainbridge ship’s company. i thought it was still the flagship of the task force there. apparently it isn’t now but it was, and they rotate flagship designations – and crew compliment. usually only a designated flagship would have the Scout Sniper team. my bad.
The email’s author names himself “Buddy Wellborn, USNA ’59″, who (if true) presumably would be Captain Raymond B. “Buddy” Wellborn USN-Ret (who scored three touchdowns against Notre Dame in ’58!). More to the point, CAPT Wellborn was a career submariner, which raises at least the strong likelihood of his having been concerned in SEAL ops. It claims to be based on info from a contact at DEVGRU, with a fairly complete timeline of the Team SIX det’s mission from departure Norfolk until the shoot. The claim of four rounds fired is corroborated independently by the young FN aboard Boxer who says he heard four reports (That email, at least, reads “clean;” in other words it’s exactly what one would expect to read from a junior sailor who only saw the peripherals)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2235870/posts?page=1
@Bill
So you are saying it was the Navy that spent 5 days dithering until they decided to go against instructions – when they could of taken out the kidnappers before then?
Gaffa, did you miss previous conversations/posts about this? Since this could escalate into a major int’l incident, the US military wanted confirmation from the top on every by-the-book procedure. The Navy did not “go against instructions” when it acted. It made sure that when it acted, it fit the absolute parameters of “the instructions”.
They could have acted sooner were those “instructions” not so binding, and the CIC given them the blessing to follow traditional ROE already in place. That’s all they were asking in the beginning. However when the CIC and his underlings started micromanaging with additional caveats, they had to wait until everything fit the Obama bill.
@MataHarley
Not according to Bill – he claims the Navy made the call ‘in spite’ of the instructions were given. Therefore that brings up the question why didn’t they make that call earlier. I’m not blaming the Navy myself – as I believe they did the right thing within instructions. It was the right call with the right result.
First of all before jumping on this bandwagon, don’t you think a SOURCE should be identified other than the opening line, “Talking to some SEALS….”
For all we know this was some schizophrenic on St. Paul Alaska island, talking to real frikkin seals!
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