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	<title>Comments on: Pakistan Says &#8220;NO&#8221; to Obama and Demands Predator Drones</title>
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		<title>By: Flopping Aces » Blog Archive &#187; GWoRIT vs. OCO: Which has made/is making America Safer?</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2009/04/08/pakistan-says-no-to-obama-and-demand-predator-drones/comment-page-1/#comment-247034</link>
		<dc:creator>Flopping Aces » Blog Archive &#187; GWoRIT vs. OCO: Which has made/is making America Safer?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=19669#comment-247034</guid>
		<description>[...] drone attacks? Those went on under President Bush and continue on under President Obama. How has relations improved? Under Musharraf and during the Bush tenure, Pakistani authorities handed over to us, Abu Zubaydah [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>[...] drone attacks? Those went on under President Bush and continue on under President Obama. How has relations improved? Under Musharraf and during the Bush tenure, Pakistani authorities handed over to us, Abu Zubaydah [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Aqua</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2009/04/08/pakistan-says-no-to-obama-and-demand-predator-drones/comment-page-1/#comment-190919</link>
		<dc:creator>Aqua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=19669#comment-190919</guid>
		<description>Dave - &quot;Who told you that? Nobody told me that before I pulled the lever. And I wouldn’t have believed them if they had.&quot;

Really? Were you hiding out in a cave?


&lt;a href=&quot;url&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://libyamonitor.blogspot.com/2008/10/could-obama-win-restore-americas-global.html&lt;/a&gt;

October, 2008 - &quot;One week before Election Day, the world is revising its opinion of America. After a drop of confidence in the United States, presidential candidate Barack Obama has revived the U.S. brand, exporting a vision of American renewal to a world watching the election with unprecedented interest.&quot; 

&lt;a href=&quot;url&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/08/backers_say_obama_can_regain_worlds_respect_for_us/&lt;/a&gt;

January, 2008 - &quot;Backers say Obama can regain world&#039;s respect for US.&quot;

&lt;a&gt;http://www.transnational.org/Columns_Power/2008/9.ObamaForeignPolicy.html&lt;/a&gt;

March, 2008 - &quot;Obama&#039;s foreign policy will win the world&#039;s respect.&quot;

I can keep going. The web is full of it. And don&#039;t forget the lady that said an Obama win would mean she wouldn&#039;t have to worry about putting gas in her car or paying her mortgage. Nothing to do with World Respect, just the same delusional thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>Dave &#8211; &#8220;Who told you that? Nobody told me that before I pulled the lever. And I wouldn’t have believed them if they had.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really? Were you hiding out in a cave?</p>
<p><a href="url" rel="nofollow">http://libyamonitor.blogspot.com/2008/10/could-obama-win-restore-americas-global.html</a></p>
<p>October, 2008 &#8211; &#8220;One week before Election Day, the world is revising its opinion of America. After a drop of confidence in the United States, presidential candidate Barack Obama has revived the U.S. brand, exporting a vision of American renewal to a world watching the election with unprecedented interest.&#8221; </p>
<p><a href="url" rel="nofollow">http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/08/backers_say_obama_can_regain_worlds_respect_for_us/</a></p>
<p>January, 2008 &#8211; &#8220;Backers say Obama can regain world&#8217;s respect for US.&#8221;</p>
<p><a>http://www.transnational.org/Columns_Power/2008/9.ObamaForeignPolicy.html</a></p>
<p>March, 2008 &#8211; &#8220;Obama&#8217;s foreign policy will win the world&#8217;s respect.&#8221;</p>
<p>I can keep going. The web is full of it. And don&#8217;t forget the lady that said an Obama win would mean she wouldn&#8217;t have to worry about putting gas in her car or paying her mortgage. Nothing to do with World Respect, just the same delusional thinking.</p>
<!-- google_ad_section_end --><div class="CommentRating">Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-190919" src="http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('190919', 'add', 'floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-190919-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-190919" src="http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('190919', 'subtract', 'floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-190919-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ruaqtpi2</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2009/04/08/pakistan-says-no-to-obama-and-demand-predator-drones/comment-page-1/#comment-190809</link>
		<dc:creator>ruaqtpi2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 04:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=19669#comment-190809</guid>
		<description>Gaffa,

Are you saying that Clinton had no part to play in the financial market collapse, and that the  repeal of Glass-Steagal made no difference to how banks changed their business models? 

Jeff V</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>Gaffa,</p>
<p>Are you saying that Clinton had no part to play in the financial market collapse, and that the  repeal of Glass-Steagal made no difference to how banks changed their business models? </p>
<p>Jeff V</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Noble</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2009/04/08/pakistan-says-no-to-obama-and-demand-predator-drones/comment-page-1/#comment-190691</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Noble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=19669#comment-190691</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t the one who changed the topic, Mike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>I wasn&#8217;t the one who changed the topic, Mike.</p>
<!-- google_ad_section_end --><div class="CommentRating">Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-190691" src="http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('190691', 'add', 'floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-190691-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-190691" src="http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('190691', 'subtract', 'floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-190691-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike's America</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2009/04/08/pakistan-says-no-to-obama-and-demand-predator-drones/comment-page-1/#comment-190675</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike's America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 18:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=19669#comment-190675</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-190658&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dave Noble&lt;/a&gt;: Oh I don&#039;t know... seems to me you do carry on like some princess with the vapors.

Now, if you don&#039;t mind, we&#039;ll just get back to topic here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>@<a href="#comment-190658" rel="nofollow">Dave Noble</a>: Oh I don&#8217;t know&#8230; seems to me you do carry on like some princess with the vapors.</p>
<p>Now, if you don&#8217;t mind, we&#8217;ll just get back to topic here.</p>
<!-- google_ad_section_end --><div class="CommentRating">Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-190675" src="http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('190675', 'add', 'floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-190675-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-190675" src="http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('190675', 'subtract', 'floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-190675-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dave Noble</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2009/04/08/pakistan-says-no-to-obama-and-demand-predator-drones/comment-page-1/#comment-190658</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Noble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 18:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=19669#comment-190658</guid>
		<description>Mike,

I haven&#039;t a clue what a blog dripping in estrogen looks like.  Apparently you do.  Where is effeminacy evident in these three sentences?:

&quot;Who told you that? Nobody told me that before I pulled the lever. And I wouldn’t have believed them if they had.&quot;

BTW, Mike, the vapors was something Victorian, not medieval, ladies suffered from 
You, like your dipshit buddy, can&#039;t even get a florid insult right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>Mike,</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t a clue what a blog dripping in estrogen looks like.  Apparently you do.  Where is effeminacy evident in these three sentences?:</p>
<p>&#8220;Who told you that? Nobody told me that before I pulled the lever. And I wouldn’t have believed them if they had.&#8221;</p>
<p>BTW, Mike, the vapors was something Victorian, not medieval, ladies suffered from<br />
You, like your dipshit buddy, can&#8217;t even get a florid insult right.</p>
<!-- google_ad_section_end --><div class="CommentRating">Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-190658" src="http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('190658', 'add', 'floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-190658-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-190658" src="http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('190658', 'subtract', 'floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-190658-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike's America</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2009/04/08/pakistan-says-no-to-obama-and-demand-predator-drones/comment-page-1/#comment-190577</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike's America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 15:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=19669#comment-190577</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-190354&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;MataHarley&lt;/a&gt;: Good article that you excerpted and it hits the mark. But why is Obama so eager to downplay any idea of American exceptionalism? Former Sen. Rick Santorum has the answer:
\
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/42725037.html

Both articles would make a good post.

Obama is destroying the essence of American leadership in the world and there is no other nation willing to fill that vacuum. That&#039;s trouble waiting to happen.

@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-190562&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;tfhr&lt;/a&gt;: Thanks for your analysis. It was pretty clear that the Pakistani request for the drones really meant they didn&#039;t want them used at all. Apparently the Paks still haven&#039;t decided which side they are on and can&#039;t seem to get a grip on the fact that unless they defeat the extremists the violence in that country will continue. 

Dealing with a problem like that may be difficult, painful and deadly. Putting off dealing with a problem like that means that more people will be killed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>@<a href="#comment-190354" rel="nofollow">MataHarley</a>: Good article that you excerpted and it hits the mark. But why is Obama so eager to downplay any idea of American exceptionalism? Former Sen. Rick Santorum has the answer:<br />
\<br />
<a href="http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/42725037.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/42725037.html</a></p>
<p>Both articles would make a good post.</p>
<p>Obama is destroying the essence of American leadership in the world and there is no other nation willing to fill that vacuum. That&#8217;s trouble waiting to happen.</p>
<p>@<a href="#comment-190562" rel="nofollow">tfhr</a>: Thanks for your analysis. It was pretty clear that the Pakistani request for the drones really meant they didn&#8217;t want them used at all. Apparently the Paks still haven&#8217;t decided which side they are on and can&#8217;t seem to get a grip on the fact that unless they defeat the extremists the violence in that country will continue. </p>
<p>Dealing with a problem like that may be difficult, painful and deadly. Putting off dealing with a problem like that means that more people will be killed.</p>
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		<title>By: tfhr</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2009/04/08/pakistan-says-no-to-obama-and-demand-predator-drones/comment-page-1/#comment-190562</link>
		<dc:creator>tfhr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=19669#comment-190562</guid>
		<description>Our latest generation of UAVs have some very advanced capabilities but you really need to use UAVs where you are dealing with denied air space (and to remove the risk of losing air crew) and that does not apply to the Pakistanis.  UAVs are high maintenance and carry small weapons payloads because they are primarily designed to send back full motion video for intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance purposes.  For this they demand line of sight coms or a satellite link but in either case, there are massive bandwidth limitations.  We have tremendous challenges with these issues and the Pakistanis simply cannot manage the systems effectively enough to use UAVs as weapons in the NATA. 

Pakistanis could use their existing aircraft in coordination with personnel on the ground at far less cost or even acquire less expensive prop driven air frames that would require less ground crew, fuel, etc., to do the job, but equipment is not the issue.

The UAV request is bogus.  Pakistan lacks the will to deal with the autonomous tribal areas and is too fragile internally to deal with the controversy.  Couple that with corruption and sympathy for the Taliban and Al Qaeda within the government (particularly the intelligence services) and certain public sectors and you have what you have, a country incapable of eradicating the threat by ANY means.  Quite frankly, if we gave them the capability AND they managed to keep the UAVs flying, any effective strike against targets within Pakistan would probably be blamed on the US anyway.

The REAL story here is that as long as we were keeping our own UAV activity quiet - no media - we could act when needed and it did not raise the issue within Pakistan to the point that it created a controversy for the government.  Our media exposure embarrassed the Pakistanis across the board so that our &quot;friends&quot;, and I use that term so loosely, are now reacting publicly to save their own skins.  I&#039;m not sure if Obama&#039;s electioneering comments raised the heat on the Pakistani government but his warning that he would send troops into Pakistan or take direct action across their border cannot help in a situation where less said is best said.

Obama should work the back channels and allow the Pakistani government to posture to please it&#039;s internal critics so that it can still function enough to help us and maintain the Pakistani version of internal stability.  He should not make deals in public or sell materials that create a situation with India.  This is an area that Obama can succeed but unfortunately the nature of our politicians and media usually precludes quiet, tactful applications of diplomacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>Our latest generation of UAVs have some very advanced capabilities but you really need to use UAVs where you are dealing with denied air space (and to remove the risk of losing air crew) and that does not apply to the Pakistanis.  UAVs are high maintenance and carry small weapons payloads because they are primarily designed to send back full motion video for intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance purposes.  For this they demand line of sight coms or a satellite link but in either case, there are massive bandwidth limitations.  We have tremendous challenges with these issues and the Pakistanis simply cannot manage the systems effectively enough to use UAVs as weapons in the NATA. </p>
<p>Pakistanis could use their existing aircraft in coordination with personnel on the ground at far less cost or even acquire less expensive prop driven air frames that would require less ground crew, fuel, etc., to do the job, but equipment is not the issue.</p>
<p>The UAV request is bogus.  Pakistan lacks the will to deal with the autonomous tribal areas and is too fragile internally to deal with the controversy.  Couple that with corruption and sympathy for the Taliban and Al Qaeda within the government (particularly the intelligence services) and certain public sectors and you have what you have, a country incapable of eradicating the threat by ANY means.  Quite frankly, if we gave them the capability AND they managed to keep the UAVs flying, any effective strike against targets within Pakistan would probably be blamed on the US anyway.</p>
<p>The REAL story here is that as long as we were keeping our own UAV activity quiet &#8211; no media &#8211; we could act when needed and it did not raise the issue within Pakistan to the point that it created a controversy for the government.  Our media exposure embarrassed the Pakistanis across the board so that our &#8220;friends&#8221;, and I use that term so loosely, are now reacting publicly to save their own skins.  I&#8217;m not sure if Obama&#8217;s electioneering comments raised the heat on the Pakistani government but his warning that he would send troops into Pakistan or take direct action across their border cannot help in a situation where less said is best said.</p>
<p>Obama should work the back channels and allow the Pakistani government to posture to please it&#8217;s internal critics so that it can still function enough to help us and maintain the Pakistani version of internal stability.  He should not make deals in public or sell materials that create a situation with India.  This is an area that Obama can succeed but unfortunately the nature of our politicians and media usually precludes quiet, tactful applications of diplomacy.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike's America</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2009/04/08/pakistan-says-no-to-obama-and-demand-predator-drones/comment-page-1/#comment-190554</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike's America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=19669#comment-190554</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-190521&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dave Noble&lt;/a&gt;: One of your friends at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gateway Pundit&lt;/a&gt; had this to say about you:

&lt;em&gt;&quot;It&#039;s not our fault that you post like a medieval princess with the vapors. ... your posts drip with estrogen.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

I couldn&#039;t agree more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>@<a href="#comment-190521" rel="nofollow">Dave Noble</a>: One of your friends at the <a href="http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Gateway Pundit</a> had this to say about you:</p>
<p><em>&#8220;It&#8217;s not our fault that you post like a medieval princess with the vapors. &#8230; your posts drip with estrogen.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more.</p>
<!-- google_ad_section_end --><div class="CommentRating">Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-190554" src="http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('190554', 'add', 'floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-190554-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-190554" src="http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('190554', 'subtract', 'floppingaces.net/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating-pro/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-190554-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dave Noble</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2009/04/08/pakistan-says-no-to-obama-and-demand-predator-drones/comment-page-1/#comment-190521</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Noble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 10:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=19669#comment-190521</guid>
		<description>Aqua,

&quot;Told that as soon as BHO was elected, we would gain instant respect on the world stage.&quot;

Who told you that?  Nobody told me that before I pulled the lever.  And I wouldn&#039;t have believed them if they had.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>Aqua,</p>
<p>&#8220;Told that as soon as BHO was elected, we would gain instant respect on the world stage.&#8221;</p>
<p>Who told you that?  Nobody told me that before I pulled the lever.  And I wouldn&#8217;t have believed them if they had.</p>
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