Economics is sadly like that. Factories go where it is stable and costs are lower. We’ve seen it happen in japan, korea and singapore moving production to vietnam and china, it’s not just a US or western world phenomena. You cannot fight too much against it or else you just become uncompetitive. Instead the best way is to gently change your services to stuff that is different or more high-end where you have an advantage over these low-wage and low-cost areas. Of course easier said than done, when the jobs vanish overseas, but what is the point having artificially high wages to produce an uncompetitive product that nobody wants to buy??? Of course it gets the votes from the workers, but uncompetive industries will crash and burn eventually(like your automakers now). Esp during a financial crisis, since they are already weak from their structure.

The Yuan is too low??? Use your $$$ and buy up chinese assets then. Many of your banks made double, triple or more by taking base stakes in the big chinese banks following their restructuring and refloat abt 5 years ago.

Whatever the case, it is tough times for all, so I suggest we all hold our underwear tightly and try to survive through these next years as best we can.

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@ Blast

Bush did seek and get other “Free Trade” Agreements, and he continued to use his office to push through a “Free Trade”agenda, which, (I agree,) he deserves his share of blame for, but the subject of this thread was China. As I have said before, I give blame where blame is due. During his Presidency, Bush W also supported trade with China and did little to stop China’s unfair trade practices, but he wasn’t the one who signed the “Free Trade” agreements that opened this economic Pandora’s Box of trade with China. The trade agreements with China were finalized before his presidency. It was Bill Clinton who awarded “most favored nation” status to China. NAFTA and GATT also came under Clinton’s watch. Union and factory workers did not have a friend in Bubba.

You must have missed it where Bush’s administration protested about China’s manipulations of it’s Yuan. But at the same time there isn’t a lot that can be done about that on the presidential level. That’s a world financial market issue. Granted Bush was surely involved in the loan negotiations where China bought part of our national debt, those debt loans were being sold to any and all who would finance it. But that government financed debt is not the same as the trade deficit debt. The trade deficit monies were not shipped to China on government ships, but via corporate financial means. I have stated on other threads that I was not a fan of Bush. I support fair trading agreements but not these unbalanced “Free Trade” Agreements. I do blame both Bush and both parties in Congress for keeping the incentives programs going for manufacturing to move overseas, but he again, did not initiate the unbalanced trade with China process, he inherited it.

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sigmund… is Scott sending you his coffee???

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The secret underwear weapon doth cause great consternation and internal reflection amongst the imperialist americans.
Ni Hao!!! Ni Hao!!!

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ditto: With free trade agreements and manufacturing favoring China, they have been flooded with US money, some of which they have loaned back to the US to pay for our government’s deficit spending. Quite a bit of China’s profits have not gone to helping to raise the standard of living for their people, but to fund a wide scale build-up in advanced military systems and an expansion of their military might.

And Ditto, you were right with your chastising Clinton for China getting their hands on out technology, what about assigning responsibility for the above quoted material, including who did not lift a finger to make sure the Yuan (Chinese currency) was properly valued as not to flood our country with cheap Chinese goods (and thus damaging our industries). Who was in charge then?

CLINTON AND GW. BUSH. It became an art under President Bush as we shipped boatloads of money to them for them to reinvest in their military.

ditto: Thanks for nothing Bubba!

Why don’t you thank President Bush too?

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Blame the Clinton administration for advancing China’s weapon systems. He GAVE the Chinese government “technology transfers” worth billions in research and even more strategically. The purpose of these transfers were to advance China’s scientific capabilities so that they could build and launch satellites for big US communication giants. The savings in labor costs making it cheaper for the Chinese to build and launch.

Clinton should have been impeached for treason for that. Much of the technology for these high tech spacecraft and launch vehicles is the same as that needed to build advanced atomic warhead delivery systems.

To be blunt. Prior to Clinton signing off on these technology transfers, Chinese nuclear ballistic missiles were incapable of reaching the US. Once the Chinese were able to launch spacecraft into stable orbits, they became able to lob atomic bombs at any nation in the world.

Thanks for nothing Bubba!

With free trade agreements and manufacturing favoring China, they have been flooded with US money, some of which they have loaned back to the US to pay for our government’s deficit spending. Quite a bit of China’s profits have not gone to helping to raise the standard of living for their people, but to fund a wide scale build-up in advanced military systems and an expansion of their military might.

Washington DC and corporations have acted stupidly, all in the name of free trade and profits. In effect, they have put China’s military on steroids, and one day there will be a reckoning with this increasingly hostile giant.

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what we have in our white house now is a joke,the bs he has and is spouting is pure bs,other nations have respected our countrybecause of our military might,president bush protected us as a nation after 911,this message about obama giving china eminent domain over us property,the map in the article only showed ca,hi,as the asking price,we should send all our elected officals that are not doing any thing to help this country send them to china so they can see what our country will look like in next 4 years if we continue to sit idle and do nothing to stop them,our military is working their a$$ off to protect us,they spend tour after tour for us and we have yet heard our congress, some senators house leaders say thank you or give them what they need to get the job done right with out hearing house leaders whine because of spending money on lost war,the only thing this country has lost is it’s backbone as citizens,we let our elected officals put us in this mess,they can spend billions on things like termites,bees keepers,wetland study,give billions to people that should have never bought a house they couldn’t afford,bail out wallstreet when they overstretch ,say things are to big to fail,,that’s all bs,,american people know how to work to get any thing they want,yet the last two generations seem to believe that the government owes them,we let accorn run our elections,we let people throw around the race card just to get the few to rise up and cause us stress and we back down, i’m tired of all this bs coming from the very few to upset the mighty of our great country,if the true americans don’t stand up and do something,anything then we might as well let every country in world in that wants in,our laws are starting to mean nothing,our constition means even less,i’m proud of this country,i served in our military,i follow the rules we made as a country,and to think a few are just giving away what we have worked so hard for, they will take it from my cold dead hands,as i breath my last breath,GOD HELP US,WE SEEM TO HAVE FORGOTTON HOW TO HELP US.

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Hawk: At this rate, we might as well drop the red, white and blue and just raise the Chinese flag.

Be sure to take a look at the label first, the flag was probably made in China anyway.

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WHEN the cold war ended with Russia, it seems that everyone in Washington forgot about China being #3 in things. Proclaiming “We won!” was not only premature but the biggest understatement that anyone could have made.

Instead of trying to reign in spending on all levels, AS A COUNTRY we are more than happy to just keep spending more and more and the citizens have been happily plodding along allowing it to happen. So, we keep spending more and happily asking China to buy it up.

Has anyone stopped for one second to wonder what will happen when China calls in the debt?

Couple that in with the military build up. China may well be preparing to do just that. Call in the debt and take what they rightfully own thanks to our government as well as ourselves for letting it happen.

And as far as the trade deficit, you need look no further but your local department stores. Pick up almost anything and look to see “Made In China.” Sickening!

And exactly how much outsourcing are American traitors companies sending there?

At this rate, we might as well drop the red, white and blue and just raise the Chinese flag.
It’d damn sure make those leftist happy (until they have the reality hit) and shut those up who always complain about the U.S. and how evil we are (until the reality hits).

YEP!

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This is not the first of these incidents and they are most likely all about the “secret” underwater nuclear sub base that China has built near Sanya City on the southern tip of Hainan Island that was discovered last May.

Since then, we have been monitoring the coming and goings of these vessels, hence the deployment of “survey vessels” like the Impeccable. I would imagine that they are using and laying sonar bouys and other means of tracking the deep sea entrances to the South China Sea.

An Underwater Threat
http://www.aei.org/publications/filt…pub_detail.asp

“As America and its allies focus their diplomatic energy on the Middle East and Afghanistan, China continues to alter the balance of power in East Asia with little fanfare and even less resistance. Consider recent revelations that China has built a massive new naval base in Sanya, on Hainan Island. The strategically located base, which features underground facilities, provides the Chinese Navy with hard-to-monitor deep-water access to the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean region, as well as the ability to project military power in trade routes considered vital to all Asian countries. Since World War II, the U.S. Navy has policed these sea routes. Washington and its allies have provided the security that has underwritten Asia’s remarkable growth in trade and prosperity. By building a Navy capable of taking on U.S. forces, however, it seems Beijing is now seeking to contest that U.S. maritime dominance–a move that could seriously undermine peace and prosperity throughout Asia.

The new base at Sanya will be able to handle numerous nuclear submarines, destroyers and, when China decides to build them, aircraft carriers. Already, China’s latest Jin-class nuclear ballistic-missile submarine has been spotted at the base, just a few hundred kilometers from China’s Southeast Asian neighbors, such as Vietnam. Complicating matters further, Beijing has driven massive tunnels into hillsides surrounding the base, which will let China shield its subs from detection by satellites and leave Washington practically blind when those subs do deploy.

To close observers of the Chinese military, the base’s construction is just the latest in a sustained Chinese effort to rapidly build up its military, particularly its Navy. Since 1995, when most countries were shrinking their defense budgets and downsizing their militaries in the aftermath of the cold war, China has commissioned more than 30 new submarines. It has acquired or is building at least five different classes of subs–a number unmatched by any other military. In addition to this ever-growing underwater force, Beijing has launched an impressive array of advanced destroyers, fielded more than 1,000 ballistic missiles since the early 1990s at a rate of 150 a year, and acquired hundreds of the most modern fighter aircraft. Many experts on the Chinese military tend to explain away this rapid buildup as necessary to deterring Taiwan’s independence. But China faces no serious challenge from Taiwan, and Taiwan’s military has done comparatively little to augment its firepower over the past decade. The fact is that for some time now, China has had more than enough military capacity to deter Taiwan from formally breaking with the mainland. Indeed, if anything, the worry today is that China can coerce Taiwan into a settling their dispute on Beijing’s terms. It also hasn’t escaped notice from others in the neighborhood that all these new military capabilities targeting Taiwan could also be used for alternative purposes.

Given that China faces a benign security environment with no real threats, its true military goals remain a mystery. Privately, however, U.S. officials are voicing concern. The Pentagon estimates that by 2010, China’s will be able to deploy five submarines equipped with nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles, making its nuclear force far more powerful and likely to survive an attack.

The Americans aren’t the only ones growing nervous. Last week, the Indian cabinet discussed China’s new base, and the Indian Navy chief expressed serious concern. He rightly suspects that a stronger Chinese nuclear Navy means that Beijing may plan on challenging Delhi’s longtime dominance of the Indian Ocean. Tokyo, for its part, is increasingly worried that its old rival is developing the ability–and the intention–to project power around Japan with impunity. Over the past few years, Japanese officials have reported dozens of Chinese maritime incursions into disputed waters close to Japan’s shores. And China will soon have the hardware to allow it to forcefully settle claims to disputed islands in the South China Sea–much to the consternation of the Philippines and Vietnam.

Nothing less than the future of East Asia now hangs in the balance. For many years, America’s security umbrella over the region has allowed Asia’s great powers, including China, to focus on economic growth rather than military competition. Now China’s rapid buildup could spark a costly regional competition that could potentially slow Asia’s economic growth, as funds are diverted to military spending and investors are scared away.

The last three U.S. administrations have based their China policies on hopes about what China might someday become. It is time to face the reality of what China has already created. This means devoting more military resources to the region and strengthening U.S. allies in order to reassure those them and send Beijing the message that the United States is committed to the regional status quo–which includes the maintenance of free markets and free governments across the Pacific. Beijing may not get it, yet. But such a U.S. response would be in everyone’s interests.”

That last paragraph is important. Obama is being tested big time.

I expect nothing from this Chicago huckster except capitulation.

Welcome to the real world Bambi…maybe Hillary can go back there with a “reset button”…

wardogs

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