[...] the horrible treatment at the hands of the White House signals a turnaround in the US’s alliance with [...]

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You Brits don’t understand the psyche of the ONE.
Wait for us chinese to visit the Whitehouse.
We’re gonna give Obama a bust of KARL MARX to put on his desk.
Actually we made one for Clinton(the male) with a condom dispenser in it, but after some consideration that plan was shelved.

When you press the Karl Marx bust on the forehead, it says: “Ohh, Barack, you are the One!”

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philly_nj,

I have reviewed those links, along with many, many others, and there are inconsistencies among some of the stories; the particulars are not crystal clear. I haven’t seen anyone dispute that the family was from the Luo tribe, which was not particularly affected by the fighting between the Brits and the Kikyu, but the involvement of Obama’s grandfather is hard to sort out due to different accounts of whom the Brits rounded up, detained, and tortured. Parts of the story may have been embellished for dramatic purposes, but by Obama’s actionI’d say he definitely believes that the Brits roughed up the older man.

No matter what specifically happened, Obama’s actions were very low-class and rude. For a Harvard grad, he don’t seem too bright sometimes.

Jeff V

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@MataHarley: Mata, he’s been spamming the threads for a while today. I’m not going to put up with it anymore.

If you want to let him play his games on your posts be my guest.

It isnt’ going to happen here.

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blast, again you’re veering off the point of topic and playing “it all depends upon what the meaning of “is”… is”. So before Mike finds you and just hits the delete button, let me clear up your anal definition of the word “gift”.

It means something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation…. there is no “permanent status” time requirement for a gift. One might consider an engagement ring as a gift. But then if the engagement is broken, it is good protocol to return that gift as it was given with a promise of nuptials. Is then the engagement ring a loan as well until the wedding occurs?

In the transitive verb usage, as if “to gift” or “gifting”, it means to present, or to endow. Again, the word is not contingent upon the length of time for that endowment.

To loan is to grant another temporary use. Compensation may or may not be required. Certainly a collateralized “loan” requires compensation in interest and a lien in a real asset. However your Dad loaning you his 1969 Cougar may not require any compensation (but perhaps filling up the gas tank… LOL)

Thus you have made much ado about nothing, banking this endless argument on semantics that really apply either way. Frankly, since we discussed return of the bust on another thread days ago, we were already aware that the Churchill bust was not a permanent gift to Bush alone that he could purchase and take to his home in Dallas.

It is a “gift” in that it is given freely, without compensation… and has no time deadline as they continued to offer that “gift” to the successor POTUS. It is also a “loan”, sans compensation. Which, if you want to get technical, can legitimately make it a gift loan.

All in all, you are no more correct in your verbage that it’s a “loan” than anyone else is in calling it a “gift”. Both are correct in context.

And that, blast, is a demonstration in diplomatic compromise on a truly anal point of conversation. I strongly suggest you let it go at that, or I’m pretty darned sure the thread nanny will be swooping in to mitigate this in his own, less diplomatic way. LOL

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@Missy: Interesting comment…

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I suppose Cesar Millan is busy today.

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ruaqtpi2
“35″ Apparently, Obama’s grandfather was detained in a British prison and tortured by Churchill’s forces during the Mau Mau revolution in Kenya. I can understand his reticence to remove the Bust from the Oval Office, but he handled the situation poorly.

Was Obama’s Luo grandfather actually detained and tortured by the British during the Kikyu uprising ?

Fact is the Mau Mau uprising was exclusively fought between the British and the Kikuyu tribe the rebellion did not spread to the other native peoples of kenya
Link:
http://www.lycos.com/info/mau-mau-uprising–kikuyu-guard.html

Obama’s Kenyan family are from the Luo tribe and their history states:
“Unlike many other Kenyan tribes, the Luo tribe were not particularly troubled by the arrival of the white Europeans and settlers. Given the location of their territory in western Kenya, they didn’t have their lives interrupted nor their land taken from them. They were not particularly involved in the Mau Mau rebellion, but helped create an independent Kenya through politics instead.”
Link:
http://www.kenya-advisor.com/luo-tribe.html

Did the British torture an innocent Luo tribesman thinking he was a Kikyu rebel or did Obama’s Kenyan family enhance the Grandfather’s history to make them more interesting to the young Barack Obama and Obama was too ignorant of Kenyan history to know any better ?
.

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Obama’s lack of experience in foreign affairs is showing. Even Carter wouldn’t have been that tactless and oblivious. A shame Hillary or Biden wasn’t there to explain the finer points of diplomacy.

In the future Encyclopedias will have Obama’s picture next to the entry for “Peter Principle”.

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Blast:

Since you continue to be a picayunish self-appointed Proofreader Extraordinaire, please allow me to point out that you were the first to comment on the use of the word gift, in your message (post #8), and I quote:

“… I doubt Obama was going to send back a “gift” but something that was an heirloom lent by the British.”

I know (rather, presume) that you can count, so you’ll recognize that my comment (post #35) and your rant (post #37) came well after post #8. So you can’t just hide behide some silly (and incorrect) assertion that the issue was whether or not the word “loan” was used properly. The issue is clearly whether or not the loan was presented in the spirit of gift giving. So, yes, a loan can be a gift if it is “something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation.” The bust was a loan, certainly, with a time frame understood to be as long as the countries remained allies with a special relationship. No doubt each country’s leaders expected (at the time) that the bust of Churchill would never have to be returned as long as the US considered Britain to be a respected ally and friend (and vice-versa.)

Did any of this occur to Obama? Did he stop to think about the ramifications of his actions, or is he too immature socially and diplomatically to realize that one’s actions (however small they may seem) just might have consequences? I honestly can’t decide if he’s too ignorant in such situations, or if he’s too damned arrogant. The Brits stand on ceremony, even if some classless Americans don’t recognize this or act appropriately. Either Obama doesn’t understand this, or intended to impress upon the Brits that he doesn’t consider them valued allies or friends with a special relationship. Either way, as our Number One ambassador, he did not do this country proud!

Obama needs to take culture classes, and perhaps his diplomatic advisors should attend with him.

Jeff V

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