[DELETED BY AUTHOR]
28 Jan
How many votes can $1.2 TRILLION Buy?
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Wednesday, January 28th, 2009 at 3:42 pm | 39 views
Stats
PRAVDA has to fail …. “Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace.” — James Madison
Tax cuts in the absence of spending cuts have the same effect as increased spending. We have to borrow more money from China and the government goes increasingly in debt. This financial crisis was caused in the first place by massive tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, creating massive deficits, leading the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates to imprudent levels, creating a capital glut, creating the need for imprudent investments, such as the mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps. Now the GOP wants to double down by giving massive new tax cuts.
The GOP and Dems aren’t quarreling over the amount of money that we are going to borrow from China. They are quarreling about who is going to get the borrowed money to spend — government or invididuals. The economists advising the Dems say that it is far more likely that the government will actually spend the money in a timely manner and stimulate the economy out of the recession. Classic Keynesian economics. These economists say that leaving it up to tax cuts to stimulate the economy will not do this — as we saw during the Bush years, the tax cuts mostly went into unwise exotic long term investments, and not into things which produced real wealth for the US population.
I personally don’t favor doing anything which will add more debt. No increased spending. No tax cuts. I’d return to Robert Rubin-style pay as you go government, “focusing like a laser” on deficit reduction, and I’d let the market eventually correct itself, even if it meant we had to endure a recession for three years. We adults have been living high on the hog, borrowing money from our children for entirely too long. It’s time we started paying our own bills.
- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
whats a matter mikeA, you have to censor everything I put here?
this is insane, there are way to many special interest projects in this bill. how is the 335,000,000 for stds going to stimulate the economy? maybe it will keep the welfare sluts clean so that medicare won’t have to pay for their treatments and meds, but medicare will continue to pay for all of the children that they keep popping out. how will this keep the lumber industry afloat? or the small businesses in this nation? this is a fiasco and i am sooooo glad the dems own the freakin thing. yep, they won, and they can keep pounding it in until this nation is no more, but they can still say that they won.
QUICK OBAMA,CONTACT MCDONALDS!
McDonald’s has posted a net gain of 80% from 2007-2008.
__________
US fast-food giant McDonald’s said Monday its 2008 net profit soared 80 percent from a year, lifted by growing demand from consumers seeking low-cost meals in a deepening global recession.
Net profit for the full year totaled 4.3 billion dollars, compared with 2.3 billion in 2007, the Oak Brook, Illinois-based company said in a statement.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.aec4920fe8094fdd0baaeab2ed126bf1.741&show_article=1&catnum=-1
The other thing which must be noted is that this is just the “opening offer.” The House is doing a classic “shock them with your opening offer.” It won’t be clear sailing in the Senate, where even some conservative Dems will likely side more with the GOP way of thinking. So the Senate bill should attract some GOP votes and then it will go to committee and we’ll all see how outraged we should be.
- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
You need the book ‘Pocket Obama’. Amazon. A treasure trove of Hope. An amazing book of such depth and meaning which transformed my thinking. His message rings true and allows me to understand life, politics and human nature as I could never have imagined. The nation and world will come to see his intellect and brilliance as a shining hope and deliverance from the old way of doing things. I’ve passed these out to my employees and they have been very grateful for the time spent together discussing and understanding Barracks message of hope. My daughter has even taken hers to Girl Scouts, leading her troop in reciting passages, holding His Little Blue Book in one hand and our dear leaders picture in the other. Her Troopers say that there is a tangible light that feels their beings! Praise our Leader! It gives such hope for the future. I hope all will see the glory and majesty in his truths. Help those around you to understand. Hopefully my wife will turn from her old ways and see the light. Never give up HOPE! Obama needs our shoes!
The republicans were smart enough to avoid the coming indictment of congress and the ‘Chairman’ for financing the genocide (abortion industry) of millions. No way the world court will avoid bringing these charges in the future. The democrats will not like what will come down and they will like the guilty verdicts and hanging’s less.
Karl Rove spoke on O’Reilly, where Rove flat out stated the democrat stimulus theft package will go down in flames, bringing O with it.
@Skye: I saw that and agree completely.
Better to let the Dems hang themselves on this one. Especially since they rejected nearly every Amendement we tried to put forward.
It’s about time we found a unified opposition strategy. Let’s hope this continues.
For the first time in my adult lifetime,…
I’m actually proud of all of the Republicans in the House in addition to 11 Democrats.
Insufficiency of suitably distributed pork for the Dems, one presumes. Or SLT.
I agree Aye, now on to the Senate. I’m concerned about four, maybe five Senators, no more Hagel, but we still have Snowe, Collins, Spectre, Graham, and who knows what Voinovich will do, hopefully McCain is all done with his friend of the press nonsense. Ya think they might go “wobbly” on us?
Delusional Larry strikes again. Larry, the problem was not
caused by tax cuts to “wealthy Americans.” On some level even
you know this.
We have been over this repeatedly, but because your sacred dems
are to blame, you can’t face reality. Anything that doesn’t fit
your belief that the dems are the good guys gets ignored or
twisted until you find a way to blame the Reps. That’s the
problem with liberals like you. It’s like talking to someone who
has alzheimers. You’ll have the same conversation with them over
and over.
I know you’ll claim I defend the GOP or Bush no matter what.
Actually, I defend them against unfair claims. Have you seen me
say the Iraq war went perfectly? That Bush was great on
immigration? That the GOP didn’t spend like drunken sailors?
There are legitimate reasons to criticize the GOP or Bush.
Try using them for once. Your endless regurgitating of far
left talking points is tiring.
Oh, yeah, the past 8 years of enormous deficit spending and doubling the national debt in a short 8 years is the paragon of GOP principals at work… Way to go Pres Bush! You did a wonderful job on the economy.
As a man once said: “People will believe a big lie more readily than a small one.”
Such it is that the majority of Americans seem to be swallowing that BHO’s Democrat designed recovery act is the way out of our economic crisis…
I’ve heard there are even allocations in this “stimulus” bill for the likes of ACORN. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that the liberals are looking to create jobs at organizations that will help get them re-elected. This after BHO’s public speech this morning mouthed the platitudes about private industry being the engine of the American economy. I guess the idea is say one thing in public, but do another; buried in the 100′s of pages that this bill no doubt encompasses.
All the increases in money for Schip, food stamps, contraceptives and STD education/treatment is all about having the $$$ for the vast influx of illegals into the mainstream as citizens-in-waiting -
the amnesty plan…..Millions of dollars for sod in the D.C. Mall is a work program for Mexicans, well
known for being gardeners.
Funniest thing I’ve seen outside china for ages.
@blast:
You know Blast you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time pointing your fingers at President Bush for spending.
What you are not doing, however, is pointing your fingers at Congress. They are the ones with the power of the purse.
Which spending would you have liked to have seen cut over the last eight years?
Iraq?
Afghanistan?
Katrina?
Prescription drugs?
How does the corpulent spending bill passed by the House yesterday strike your fancy? I haven’t searched thoroughly to see if you’ve posted an opine regarding that but, seriously, I’d like to know.
So far, you seem to have only one song in your jukebox.
It’s time for people to stop looking over their shoulders and start looking at today and tomorrow to see just what we might be able to change in order to get ourselves back on the right path.
Finally, conservative principles work each and every time they are tried. Unfortunately, true conservatives are a rare species in politics right now.
@Machiavelli:
“This after BHO’s public speech this morning mouthed the platitudes about private industry being the engine of the American economy.”
Those CEOs involved in that dog and pony show yesterday stand to rake in big bucks when this goes through, it was one big green lobby standing there with him. Like I said before, the lobbiests that once lobbied Obama are now out there helping him lobby us.
This might be of interest:
http://www.the-two-malcontents.com/2009/01/29/obama%e2%80%99s-destruction-of-the-usa-shifts-into-high-gear/
Republicans are now fully invested in the failure of the American economy. They will be the cheerleaders of collapse and naysayers of improvement. Here in SC, our dear Governor Sanford has turned into a job killing machine.
Nit Wit: You get more asinine by the day.
Republicans are cheerleaders for economic programs that work. Not make work big spending government boondoggles.
Republicans are not going to stand up and cheer while $1.2 trillion or more is sucked out of the productive economy and thrown down a bureaucratic rat hole.
Only a nim rod like you would do that.
And Aye responded to bl ass t with “So far, you seem to have only one song in your jukebox.”
I noticed that too Aye!
Listen, Bush was president for 8 years, much of which he had GOP majorities in one or both Houses of Congress. But the biggest power the president has is the veto pen. No spending bill could pass if it needed a 2/3 majority to overturn his pen. He did not use it.
Yes, I spend a lot of time here talking about the deficit because it is a true measure of the past 8 years. As to which spending was needed to be cut… well, for starters initiating a war with Iraq was not necessary and the cost of it should have been calculated into the go no go strategy. So if president Bush wanted the Prescription Drug bill (which was a GOP invention) and of course passed with arm twisting of Republican House leadership.
For the record I have raised a comment against the present deficit spending and called for a balanced budget amendment… but alas, MikeA has a personal vendetta against me and deleted my comment. Free speech is only as free as the person who controls the delete key. So Aye, I am concerned with this free spending.
Each generation should pay its own way. That either means those nice programs you brought up either are paid for or taxes should be raised to pay them. Yep, taxes. The goal of government should not be to tax people, but having a deficit is really a tax on our future. It is 10x worse. Only in true emergencies should we be deficit spending and doing so with an eye to paying it back at the earliest possible time.
I am keeping it real Aye. You are referring to the comment where I pointed out George Bush and the T Trillion dollar debts. Keep in mind the topic of that thread was Bush, and a commenter said that Bush was the best President we have had. I begged to differ with that and offered the debt as one element of why Geo. Bush will not be considered a great President.
” the debt as one element of why Geo. Bush will not be considered a great President.”
And somehow in one week Obama spends one third of what Bush did in his last full year in office and Obama is on the road to greatness.
Johnny One Note and it’s sour!
Republicans are champions of Economics 101. Unfortunately they don’t realize that class doesn’t cover everything. Our state will lead the nation in unemployment by spring thanks to the Hooverization of Mark Sanford.
hey mikeA, when should we consider the “Bush hangover” over?
Blast has revealed himslef to be a moonbat. Funny thing is his BDS has really gone postal right before and after he left office. He’s way behind the curve.
Let’s start from one obvious point:
This is no stimulus bill. It doesn’t get my wife and I jobs or give us financial aid. Hardly any of the money will even get out until the first half of 2010, and then it has to trickle down from the govt, to business that are porked, then down to the businesses like Microsoft and Best Buy that are hit by the economy as a whole, then down to my wife and I. Stimulus would help the economy now.
It’s that simple.
@Hard Right: I noticed the pattern too. It’s the same with all these BDS moonbats. First it was Bush, not Democrats in Congress who blocked reforms, that was responsible for the financial meltdown. Now it will be Bush, not Obama or Democrats in Congress who passed the most massive spending bill of all time, that continues to be responsible for the economic mess.
As Aye pointed out: they only have one tune in that jukebox.
@26
Uh… put down whatever it is you are smoking and get an education.
Seriously, liberals are truly ignorant. First, they try to blame Bush for Enron, when all of the illegal activity happened during the Clinton years. Now they are blaming Bush who pushed for reform but was blocked by the Democrats. Such hypocrites. How can liberals be so stupid? Seriously… there is something mentally wrong with every liberal.
Those eleven words tell me everything I need to know about you.
Everything.
I agree with you, that was on Clinton’s watch. What I would like to know is what part of this economic mess is Bush’s fault and how much of a “Bush Hangover” like the “Clinton Hangover” that preceded it. Is it a day, week, month, or year?
I see, President Bush who had historic high approval ratings and Republican control of congress in 2004 could not have fixed this problem because the democrats stood in the way. I see. That makes total sense they he would do nothing while knowing the country was on the precipice of economic collapse.
Keep in mind we are looking back post invasion. Do you think if we could change things that going into Iraq was useful given the cost in blood and treasure?
“I see, President Bush who had historic high approval ratings and Republican control of congress in 2004 could not have fixed this problem because the democrats stood in the way. “
And yet, bl ass t will still be blaming the recession on Bush despite the fact that he is out of office and Obama has historic approval numbers and controls both houses of congress by larger margins than Bush ever did.
Talk about hypocrisy.
As I said, it’s transparent that bl ass t is only concerned about spending and deficits when Republicans are in power. He’s an enabler for Democrat big spenders.
Haha… you are ridiculous, Obama has been in office a total of 10 DAYS. HUGE DIFFERENCE. If you think there is similarity between 8 years of history and 10 days, you are totally insane or so partisan that you cannot see any truth.
You complained to me before about the “Clinton Hangover” so you have already gone on the record that these “hangovers” happen, so I ask again, how long is the Bush hangover to be calculated?
@blast:
Why do you hate brown people?
I just don’t feel it was our role to be the arbiters and spreaders (by force) of democracy. If they want it, let them earn it like our forefathers did. It was not worth the blood and treasure.
@blast:
Your opinion.
Worth exactly what you were paid for it.
Funny blast, it was folks like you that wanted us in Bosnia and Darfur.
Haha… do you think insulting me advances anything?
Oh, “folks like me”, well you are wrong. I was not in favor of unilateral American action.
@blast:
You’ve exposed yourself. My insults, if there are any, won’t take you any lower .
You know blast, you’ve proven to be a lot like an apple. You present yourself to be red, shiny, appealing, and without blemish on the outside. However, when your arguments are opened up and examined, your core is rotten.
That’s a shame.
America has always been the last best hope for mankind. We have always defended liberty and freedom throughout the world since our country was founded.
You may not think that our efforts in Iraq were worth it but, then again, your neck was not under Sadaam’s boot. Your sisters weren’t the ones being gang raped while you were forced to watch. Your brothers were not the ones bound and blindfolded and then thrown off of a four story building. Your father was not fed feet first into a plastic shredder.
No, your perspective is different because, as your new leader likes to say, you have “no skin in the game.”
Perhaps if you could see things from the side of the victimized, the oppressed, or the hopeless you wouldn’t make such inane comments as “if they want it, let them earn it.” Does the inscription on the Statue of Liberty say anything about people having to “earn” their freedom? I don’t think so.
The world would indeed be a sad, miserable place if we had followed your approach, rather than following American ideals and greatness.
Blah blah blah. You have never offered any argument here, just hot air. You have no idea what my service to this country has been. I am an American, not an internationalist. It is not the job of the USA to bring “freedom” to anyone. We can foster a world were freedom works, but to force it at the tip of a bayonet is too costly. You speak of our brown brothers in Iraq, what about our yellow brothers in N. Korea where much worse starvation and deprivation has been reported. Why only help Iraqis?
@blast:
I see you for what you are, not for what you would like for me to think you are.
When your arguments are stripped of the bluster, puff chested blathering, and self importance there remains nothing worthy to discuss.
The dark, mouldy, core now lays exposed for all to view.
Some may be fooled by you.
Others, not so much.
Aye, what is your point? Where is your argument to refute something I have posted? No where.
@blast:
You should re-read post #42.
You’ve got yourself whipped into such a lather now that you missed it.
Aye, lather? I think not. And as for comment 42, that has nothing but air and your opinion. You never answered if we should have invaded North Korea too? Millions have died there, and they actually have WMD’s.
Every post you create is nothing but opinion.
I’ve refuted your opinions by pointing to historical fact. I have also shone a light on the emptiness of your position which is, in its’ entirety, simply your opinion.
As to North Korea, firmer action could have, and should have, been taken prior to their development of nuclear weapons.
Ms. Albright, however, went over and drank champagne with their Kim, and loosened the grip we had on them.
So yes, we should have been more aggressive when the opportunity presented itself.
Aye, “historical fact” do you mean where you said “America has always been the last best hope for mankind. We have always defended liberty and freedom throughout the world since our country was founded.” That is hyperbole not fact.
And as for the Iraq war (particularly the blood and money spent), which was the essence of this dispute, the majority of Americans believe as I do.
@blast:
Hyperbole?
Really?
Do you really need me to go back through the storied history of this country and recount for you every time we have “defended liberty and freedom throughout the world”?
Do you really need me to do that for you?
I would expect not. Perhaps you need to do some reading up on what this country, and her heritage is.
As for public opinion regarding the Iraq war, the general public doesn’t engage in independent thinking and simply regurgitates what they are fed. Attention spans are short and easily swayed. Determination levels fall off.
Let me ask you this though. Do you have any idea what public opinion was regarding the Revolution? The Civil War? How about our involvement in WWII?
Harry Truman wasn’t a really popular guy, but that didn’t make his actions wrong.
Thank goodness we have been blessed with leaders who have been willing to do what is right, rather than what is popular. President Bush said in one of his exit interviews that he was perfectly prepared to be reviled and despised for his actions in office.
Seems you have already gotten started in that direction.
Aye: You’ve dared to question the bl ass t? That’s the insult his majesty is referring to.
At least you are showing more tolerance for fools than I am.
I award you today’s golden eagle:
and for bl ass t, an award more fitting for his ilk:
Aye Chihuahua, I guess my history book is not the John Wayne version. Our country has been a great force for good in the world. But it is very wrong to think it was perfect or even our motives.
Do you have any idea what public opinion was regarding the Revolution? The Civil War? How about our involvement in WWII?
Yes, I do. Lets take WWII as an example since it was the US involved in military action against a foreign power (such as our invasion of Iraq). The US homeland was attacked by the Japanese on Dec 7 1941, we declared war on them and then the Axis powers declared war on the US. American public opinion was firmly on the side of the president. Keep in mind our homeland was attacked by a foreign power. In this case, 9/11 we were attacked by AQ from Afghanistan and that is where the fight should have been taken.
While you have your history books open, look into the Spanish American War and The wars of the US against the Native Populations in the US and then come back on your high horse about how good we always are. I love this country and know we are a place of good, but we have done bad as well.
@blast:
You’re right. Public opinion on WWII was on the President’s side at the beginning. What was it later, as the war slogged on? Public opinion was on the President’s side at the beginning of the Iraq conflict as well, falling off later as the war slogged on, but Presidents don’t generally make decisions of war and peace based on public opinion.
So, what’s your point?
It was taken there.
Perhaps you missed Operation Enduring Freedom.
You should stop digging now. The hole is very deep.
Well, for one Iraq did not attack the USA like Japan did. The president made the decision preemptively and whether it was based upon flawed intelligence or not does not matter in the fact he made a decision and presented it based upon false pretenses. I am not calling him a liar, it is a fact that even he admits that we went in based upon faulty intelligence.
No, I didn’t but obviously the Iraq war ended up derailing the progress in Afghanistan.
No, I think educated people understand the general concepts with the few examples I presented.
Perhaps not directly, but through proxy organizations they were certainly involved.
Judge Harold Baer disagrees with you. He ruled that Saddam Hussein provided material support to Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda, and those are the people who attacked us on 9/11.
You must have missed that part.
The top of the water doesn’t always show the movement of the current.
You conveniently choose to ignore the presence of Al Qaeda in Iraq and their connections to their sister organization in Afghanistan. In addition, you trot one of the favorite lefty memes that the US military cannot do more than one thing at a time.
Afghanistan did not suffer in any way because of our actions in Iraq.
You really should stop digging. The hole is getting very deep.
Back to the $1 trillion or so “stimulus” for a moment: The numbers we’ve been seeing for the last year or seem to have numbed us. Congress is so casual about the numbers that we lose a feel for their magnitude. So, how’s this for reference:
$1 trillion = $1,000,000,000,000
and is enough money to turn one million penniless people into millionaires. Or divided by roughly 140 million taxpayers, that could be over $70,000 to every taxpayer.
Could you imagine the economic stimulus that would result from “giving” every taxpayer $70,000?
Obviously, when this all trickles down, most of us will see no more than a couple thousand bucks, so guess who gets the rest? Poitical supporters, who will then turn around and make sizeable contributions to lawmakers’ campaign funds. THIS is the real reason for the stimulus; the same old pay-for-play crap that our politicians denounce in public but benefit from in private.
How does the voting public stand a chance against such a rigged system?
I, for one, am sick and tired of getting screwed By the ruling elite. We need a grass-roots effort to elect a truly independent president, one who is not beholden to special interests. I know it’s a fool’s dream, but it seems the only chance to turn around a government controlled by special interest groups!
JV
@me.yahoo.com/a/tgqdcI0Oz: “Or divided by roughly 140 million taxpayers, that could be over $70,000 to every taxpayer. “
If only the money would go back to the people who paid it in. But if you examine Larry’s comments above he’s more than happy with the redistribution of that wealth to just about anyone whether they have paid income taxes or not.
And you’re right about this being a mega payoff to the Dems. The ACORN payoff is especially odious.
Ummm… that is $7142.86 per taxpayer not $70,000…
@me.yahoo.com/a/tgqdcI0Oz:
You are totally correct on the diversion of this topic. I apologize for that.
Here’s another way of looking at $1 trillion which may help put it in perspective too.
Courtesy of the Glenn Beck Program:
Aye Chihuahua, you mention Glen Becks comment about unemployment being virtually the same as 1993. Do you think our current economic conditions are the same as we had in 1993? Do you think unemployment will get worse than 7% or be just at 1993 levels?
Unemployment may get worse but the Fed Gov’t spending trillions of dollars will not solve that.
Spending money which will not even get into the system for 18 months is not going to help.
Spending money on STD’s and other various and sundry things will not help.
The best thing that gov’t can do is get the hell out of the way and let the private market and free enterprise system handle this.
Get the gov’t to drastically roll back spending and tax rates simultaneously. Get the gov’t to cut capital gains tax rates and corporate tax rates and real estate tax rates while cutting individual income tax rates as well.
Those steps will get this economy moving again because they will produce an immediate flush of cash into the pockets of the people who actually control the economy, not the politicians.
The American people are quickly waking up to this boondoggle. Approval rates for it are falling daily.
The Dems own this one.
Unemployment may get worse… that is an understatement given housing, equities, most commodities, credit, manufacturing etc etc are at historic lows and still falling. The Republicans AND Democrats in Congress better get their shit together. At least now the bill goes to the Senate where there are some adults (hopefully).
Again, it’s not the job of gov’t to stimulate the economy.
It’s not the job of gov’t to create jobs.
It’s NOT their job.
As I said before, public approval, which you were really, really concerned with earlier on this thread, has turned against this pork laden debt load. Less than 5% is being spent on anything that will really create jobs. The rest is PORK. This bill is the biggest spending boondoggle that has ever passed through the halls of Congress. It is unbelievable that anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together would support it.
America is getting ready to pour another TRILLION dollars down a black hole and it will never be seen again.
The Dems own this one.
When it fails, the American people will see whose name is attached to it.
Remember, you heard it here first.
Let me see if I have this right. When the Dems refuse to support something they’re obstructionist and when the Republicans do the same thing they’re savvy politicians who don’t let public opinion hijack their sensibilities?
http://democralypsenow.blogspot.com/2009/01/master-of-house_28.html
Oops, I slipped a decimal point. One trillion divided by 140 million is 7,000, not 70,000.
Nonetheless, what the average recipient will receive is nowhere near what each will owe. Even after factoring in the fact that somewhere around half of the money will simply be printed by the Fed, how many of us are going to see our tax monies spent wisely, cautiously, and transparently?
Why doesn’t the government require all of these special interests to show a business plan with a timetable and return on investment like the auto exec’s were required to provide? I think we should get an accounting of where the first TARP $350 billion went before doling out any more bailouts!
(Sigh!) Of course it won’t happen, since it’s all a scam anyway. The government is so casual about trillions of dollars that I don’t think very many of our legislators have any idea what to do. All they know how to do is print money, increase bloated government, or provide pathetically small tax incentives.
Nobody seems to be wiiling to do what we all know needs to be done, which is to let the market correct itself. The latest prospect of creating a bank specifically for worthless assets may be a step in the right direction, but all that this will do is prolong the “mark to market” to bring the true value of these assets into the open. Unfortunately, by guaranteeing the purchase of these assets, the government is simply offering up a shell game, where we will once again get the shaft.
I propose that we rescind all bonuses for executives of any bailed out institution, and use that money to offset part of the taxpayer burden. I’d also like to see rigorous accounting for all bailout funds, including the initial $350 billion. The Fed (Paulson and Kashkari) should be given a court order to provide adequate accounting to the oversight committee within, say, 60 days, or they should be placed in jail and held for contempt of court until they cooperate fully. We should not tolerate such pompous disregard for the trillions of our hard-earned money. We are a bunch of spineless wimps if we cannot stand up to these shuckster cowards.
I think I’ve said enough – for now.
JV
uh… neither did the Taliban and Afghanistan, blast. We toppled the Taliban for harboring AQ in Afghanistan. Neither that nation, nor the Taliban directly attacked the US. But you’re okay with us going there.
And when the US was attacked by Japan, we went to… ta da… N. Africa first. That’s because they were anticipating the German front and had a plan. But no plan, and no chessboard pieces for Japan. So we started first on the German front via N. African. BTW, the Germans and N. Africa didn’t attack the US either.
Who attacked us before we entered WWI? No one…
Don’t be absurd. It was passed to NATO just as the liberal Congress and “the American people” wanted it to be. It was supposed to be one of those “int’l efforts”, ya know. The baton was officially passed completely in the summer of 2006… wherein almost immediate, NATO and their rules of engagement started losing the advantage the US coalition had gained.
You know the rule… you want something to fail? Give it to the UN and NATO
And all this has to do with what about the stimulus? Nothing, of course.
ROTFLMAO! By gawd, that’s good Fit. Tell me now… how can they be “invested” in anything since the GOP can’t do whit to stop this bill. Now you might have a right to that opinion had their votes stalled the bill, or killed it. But that’s not the case now, is it?
My suggestion is rejoice in your party’s partisan victory. If it’s all you believe it’s cracked up to be, you’ll have stuck the knife into the GOP forever. You won’t have to to say a word, or make ridiculous statements like you just did.
But these statements are all part of the backroom political strategy, aren’t they? The Dems don’t want this hanging around their neck on their own because history has proven over and over that this govt spending can not work, and will slow a recovery… AND will leave upcoming generations in unbelievable debt that makes Bush’s debt look like a petty $2 allowance.
It’s quite obvious that they are looking for fellow GOPers to share the future blame. Otherwise they’d be whoopin’ and hollerin’ about how they have just saved the nation.
It’s a simple strategy, really… the GOP voices it’s opposition with the vote as to the wisdom of this plan, knowing it will go thru anyway. They aren’t stopping the Dems. The GOP is merely passing them enough rope to hang themselves.
What’s behind the united House Republican oppostion to Pelosi’s “stimulus plan?”
The POTUS
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/29/AR2009012904329.html
By the way, this goes back to the issue of the GOP actually being President Obama’s allies, as much as his opposition. I voted for a Republican (Dana Rohrabacher) in the election for my Congressional House district, in part because of his principled vote (twice) against the Bush/Paulson Wall Street bail out and in part because I didn’t want solid Dem Congressional majorities to push Obama too far leftward. For this reason, and because I want the better candidate to win, I hope that Coleman can somehow prevail in his court challenge to Franken’s highly dubious victory in the Minnesota Senate race. GOP vetoes will hopefully spare Obama the necessity to lose too much political capital on the Left, while he tries to secure as much capital as he can on the Right.
- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
From Hard Right:
I won’t debate people who use language such as this.
Just point of information. Unlike you, Hard, I’m a real person, with a real name, and a real reputation. You are someone hiding in a spider hole, coming out timidly in the darkness to scribble graffiti, and then scurrying back down, before you can be discovered.
If you want to insult me on a personal level, have the guts to sign your own name, or else speak to me respectfully.
Now, if you’d like to have a detailed discussion of the origins of the economic crisis, where the economists (as opposed to echo chamber pundits) support my point of view and not yours, then let’s do so. But I’ve got no time or desire to get involved in Blast vs Chihauhau-type pissing contests.
- Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
He said
She Said
I did not say that the Taliban and Afganistan attacked us. I said we were attacked by AQ from Afghanistan.
Oh? Americans were being killed by the Unrestricted Submarine Warfare of Imperial Germany, so although they did not attack the USA homeland, they did sink American ships and kill Americans aboard Ships of other nations.
It was passed to NATO as much for expediency so the focus and need for troops could be applied to Iraq. The International Security Assistance Force established by UN in Dec 01, was taken over by NATO in 2003. I would agree that ROE and how troops were deployed were partly responsible for the resurgence. I don’t lay this on the congress. Bush was the Commander and Chief, and Rumsfeld as SecDef, both were pursuing the policy to get NATO involved. You make it sounds that the “liberal congress” had something to do with forcing the issue which is wrong. Keep in mind that the congress was majority Republican through Dec 8 2006.
Bl ass t: If you cannot stay on topic, or at least make an effort to do so, don’t be surprised to find your comments deleted.
I’ll give anyone who wishes to respond to your latest off topic remark the opportunity to respond then that’s it. No more.
Thank you for debating yourself into my corner, blast. i.e. the global Islamic jihad movement attacking US warships, embassies and barracks “although they did not attack the USA homeland” is indeed a viable act of war. So it’s okay for WWI and not for waging war on the global Islamic jihad movement where they proliferate?
And they did indeed hand over control of most of Afghanistan to NATO then, with the final territories in the summer of 2006. … snip… I don’t lay this on the congress. Bush was the Commander and Chief, and Rumsfeld as SecDef, both were pursuing the policy to get NATO involved. You make it sounds that the “liberal congress” had something to do with forcing the issue which is wrong.
And they did indeed hand over most of Afghanistan’s security to NATO then, but handed over the final territories for complete control in the summer of 2006.
As to the “liberal Congress”…. perhaps you missed all that “we must get the int’l community involved” crap going on during that era…. and duplicated for Iraq. An effort made by the Bush admin for almost a year, arguing in front of the UNSC using the most logical path that they could recognize… the ignored 17 resolutions INRE the Iraq transparency on WMDs.
Thus the birth of the rallying cry by the media… “no WMDs” as being the “only” reason we went there, when it was not. It was, however, the “only” reason Bush chose to argue to the int’l community that the liberals bend over for, begging for adoration.
@MataHarley:
Heh.
Again today, he proves himself to be more of a “dud” than a “blast”.
I tried to tell him to stop digging but that shovel is busy, busy, busy.
… and on the original topic…
Correct, blast. Obama and the unstoppable Dem Congress will have spent more in the first two weeks than Bush spent in a year. HUGE DIFFERENCE, I agree.
Mata, even the Republicans in congress agree that a stimulus is needed, so regardless of the spending, the current economic climate is what BOTH parties are responding to at present.
What I refer to on the past 8 years is the awful economic conditions that prevail today are not a result of a man who took office just over a week ago.
Oh, the Republican House plan would spend billions and cost hundreds of billions as well.
There is almost nothing “stimulus” in this bill, blast. Spending money is not the issue. Spending money wisely so that it stimulates the private sector and job growth is. That reality bears no resemblence to the Dem monstrosity we have.
I know what you were referring to. And the awful conomic conditions prevailing today started back in the mid 90s and are not the responsibility of the man who just left office. They are, however, primarily the responsibility of Congress… both GOP and Dems.
@blast:
Can you provide a link to the Republican House plan please?
I’d like to see how much they want to spend on sod for the National Mall.
I’d like to see how much they want to spend on STD education.
I’d like to see how much they want to spend on preparation for socialized medicine.
I’d like to see how much they want to spend on Medicaid.
I’d like to see how much they want to spend for rural broadband services.
I’d like to see their plan.
Link please.
I grant that dems had their hand in f-ing things up, but com’on, you can’t give equal weight to this. President Bush doubled the deficit when “the fundamentals of our economy were strong”, his SEC muffed up oversight to such a degree Madoff made off with $50Bn. No doubt there have been systemic issues, but lets face it… deregulation or no regulation of credit default swaps, derivatives etc were a train wreck.
On the stimulating value of the Dem plan. I have no idea, frankly whatever does pass is a bitter pill to swallow. It will raise the deficit even more and it is a wing and a prayer that it will keep our economy from falling further.
It is very short on substance since they never marked it up into bill form.
For the record, I am not in favor of the House Dem plan.
@blast:
I’ll pass on the TRILLION dollar wing and a prayer offer, thank you very much.
What most people don’t realize is that this TRILLION won’t be the last installment. This will simply be the most recent installment.
It’s been proven over and over and over that you cannot spend your way out of a situation like this. It won’t work.
Have you read the plan?
There is virtually no stimulative value in this bill. Virtually none.
Have a gander at this. It’ll make you ill.
Tax cuts will get the money into the pockets of those who actually control the economy, the people and the businesses.
Get the gov’t the hell out of the way.
OK, let me understand this. The first statement there was just a presumptuous assumption then based on the absence of info you noted in the second.
Glad to hear that.
It’s interesting that we had to wait until post #78 to find out.
Ooof….that’s gonna leave a mark.
Today, the Cato Institute placed an ad in The New York Times and the Wall Street Journal.
The ad was signed by 200 top economists and takes BO to task over his representation of economic stimulus viewpoints.
Here’s the text of the ad:
Here’s the ad itself and a link to a fully readable version:
Now he’s got the Canadians ticked, deja vu:
OTTAWA – Barack Obama will review the “Buy American” provision of his stimulus package that has angered Canada, but experts warned Friday the new U.S. president could be powerless to stop a protectionist Congress.
Obama’s spokesman, Robert Gibbs, stopped short of saying whether the White House shared the view of the Canadian government and some big American companies that the measure was a violation of deals such as the North American Free Trade Agreement. The provision, part of Obama’s $819-billion stimulus package, would allow only American iron and steel to be used in construction projects.
President Barack Obama will review the ‘Buy American’ provision of his stimulus package that has angered Canada, but experts warn the new U.S. president could be powerless to stop a protectionist Congress.
“The administration is reviewing that provision. It understands all of the concerns that have been heard, not only in this room, but in newspapers produced both up north and down south,” Gibbs said.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=1236954
The Liberal opposition raised pressure on the Conservative government Friday to defend Canadian producers and exporters, and leader Michael Ignatieff pledged to take that message directly to Obama when he meets him in Ottawa on Feb. 19.
“We don’t need to talk about threats, but they need to understand, and this will be a message I will pass to the president, that we’re a force to be reckoned with,” Ignatieff told Global Television’s Focus Ontario in an interview to be broadcast Saturday.
“We’re the United States’ largest energy supplier, not just oil, but also hydro; and they’ve got to understand that, if they want energy security, they shouldn’t start putting up barriers to our goods and services, and that quid pro quo has to be clearly understood by the incoming administration.”