Andrew Glass was a quiet man. He had a couple of friends, but they all lived blocks away, and his best friend lived on the other side of town. His neighbors though, didn’t like him at all.
Andy lived in a house that used to belong to his great grandparents, but the Basher family had been staying there for a long time before he moved back into it. Now the Bashers were angry. They hadn’t wanted to leave the house, and in the end, Andy had to call the police and force them out.
Because of the animosity, Andy had all kinds of arguments with the Bashers. The Bashers, who owned the houses on either side of Andy’s, would stand in their yards yelling, “We want our house back,” as they threw rocks at him over the fence.
“It’s not your house,” Andy would say to them, ducking to avoid the rocks, “It’s mine. You were just staying here while my family was gone.”
Andy often had to sleep under his bed because of the constant barrage of rocks that broke the windows in his house, and clattered to the floor all over his room. One time, the Bashers got so violent that the police even kicked them out of their houses next door, and some of Andy’s family members moved into them to keep the Bashers from moving back.
This angered the Bashers even more, and the constant barrage of rocks got worse. Every day, members of Andy’s family got hit by the rocks. Whenever Andy went to work, or shopping, or to the park, he had to be very careful because the Bashers would hide around corners and behind cars, just waiting to jump out and attack him.
Andy wasn’t an easy target though. Even though he was quiet by nature, he was very strong. In a face to face fight with any of the Bashers, Andy would probably win. The Bashers knew it, so they usually attacked from afar, hurling their rocks, and running away. Sometimes Andy would call the town council and report them, but nothing ever happened. The attacks kept coming, one after the other.
The Bashers also called the town council, but they told them that Andy was a bully. They accused him of being the one that attacked them, and accused him of stealing their house, and the houses next door, even though Andy’s family had owned their home for generations, and his family members were only staying in the houses next door so they could protect themselves from the constant attacks. The town council felt sorry for now homeless Bashers, and talked Andy into letting the Bashers move back into one of the next door houses. Andy cautiously agreed, hoping that by giving them back the house, his family would get a little peace.
The peace didn’t last for long though, and soon the Bashers started using the house next door to launch their attacks anew. Andy called the town council and said, “I told you that I shouldn’t have given them the house back, now they’re throwing rocks at us from right next door again.”
Some members of the town council, who were also friends with the Bashers, were less than supportive. “Maybe you should give them the other house back,” one of them suggested. “If you do, I promise they will quit throwing rocks at you.”
“Fine,” Andy said. “I’ll give them back the other house, but if they keep throwing rocks at me, I’m going to get angry.” He gave the other house back to the Bashers, hoping that the town council was right and that the Bashers would be happy enough to leave him alone, but, once again, the Bashers wanted more. Soon, the rocks were flying. Again.
“We want our house back,” they screamed at Andy from next door. “We won’t rest until every last Glass has been run out of town!”
One of the town councilors advised, “You know, they lived in your house for a long time. If you gave them the West wing of the house, I promise that they would be so happy that they would never want to fight with you again.”
“I don’t think so,” Andy replied. “They will just bring a whole bunch of rocks into the house and throw them at me.”
“Oh, just give it a shot,” cooed the councilors, “what could it hurt?”
“Fine,” Andy said once again. “They can have the West wing of the house, but they better stop throwing rocks.”
Soon, the Bashers had moved into the West wing of the house and for a while, they were quiet. Then a few of them started yelling at Andy down the hall, “Get out of our house Andy. We live here!” Not long after, the rocks started flying again. A few of the Bashers even snuck into Andy’s part of the house and threw rocks at his kids.
Andy barricaded the hallway that lead to the West wing, and then called a the town council and asked, “What should I do now? I gave them back the house next door, and it wasn’t enough. I gave them back the other house, and it wasn’t enough. Now I’ve given them a whole wing of my house and they are throwing rocks at me again. What should I do?”
“Just be patient, Andy,” said the councilors. “They aren’t very good at throwing rocks anyway. Just ignore them and they’ll quit throwing rocks…eventually. We promise.”
“Alright,” Andy answered, “but I can’t put up with this for long.”
For days, rocks flew over the barricade from the West wing, and clattered through the house. For days Andy and his family ignored them. One time a rock that had been thrown by a Basher man fell short of the barricade and hit a Basher child. “Damn you, Andy! That was your fault,” the Basher man yelled. “You’ll pay for that!” Even more rocks followed, and Andy feared the worst.
Then, late one night, it happened. One of the rocks that was thrown over the barricade hit Andy’s dad in the head and knocked him out. It pushed Andy over the edge. “Enough,” he yelled! He gathered up all the rocks he could find, tore through the barricade and started throwing them at every armed Basher he could find. He went room to room, and every time he found armed Bashers, he pelted them with rocks, beaning each one in the head and laying them flat.
Andy yelled for his family to join him as he marched through the West wing of the house, bashing one Basher after another with rocks, and chasing them out into the yard. “No more,” he yelled! “If you want to throw rocks at me, fine! I’ll throw them back!”
“Wait! Wait!” The town councilors, who had rushed over to Andy’s house, were frantic. “You can’t do that! You can’t go into their part of the house! You can’t throw rocks at the Bashers! They didn’t mean anyone any harm! You’re being a bully! You’re trespassing! We demand that you stop this right now!”
Andy paused for a moment, considering. “You know,” Andy said, “you told me to give them back one house, and I did. You told me to give them back the other house and I did. You told me to give them part of my house, and I did. I’ve done everything you’ve asked trying to appease them. Despite all of your promises, the Bashers never stopped throwing rocks. If you want the Bashers to live in your house, you’re welcome to them, but I’ve had enough. One of us is leaving the neighborhood tonight, and I don’t think it’s going to be me.”
Andy turned his back on the town council, picked up some more rocks, and marched out into the yard, scattering Bashers as he went. If the town council wasn’t going to help him, he was damn sure going to help himself.
Although being in for a cell for ages and then being hung like Saddam is actually pretty good justice. Because if you kill them immediately as soon as you find them then they aren’t humilated.
@GaffaUK:
OH, WHAT A TANGLED WEB…
Ever see the webs woven by drugged spiders?
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/LMF2/spiderWeb.jpg
That’s the image that GaffaUK’s meanderings evoke.
Again, see…
http://www.imninalu.net/myths-pals.htm
…as it is very thorough.
He begins by waxing his philosophics to bring out the nuances of “peoplehood” when all he need do is look at what the so-called paleostinkians have to say about themselves.
There is also the small matter of the lie that Israel “stole” Arab Land…
http://samsonblinded.org/said_end_peace_process/92land_ownership_Palestinians_Israel.htm
“Israel is almost [2] unique in that she bought more arable land than she conquered or obtained through international legal arrangements.” (also see that ref, [2] for a refutation of the lie that Americans stole all the land from the Indians).
The bottom line is that his first “point” is more an amorphous smudge than a precise departure point.
Now, skipping his wonderous confusion to see where he ends up, another smudge rather than endpoint, we have…
” Try for once answering my question on whether you believe the Native American should be entitled to rule and govern the whole US because they had CONTINUOUS attachment to their lands? Go on…” — GaffaUK
First, you show me the equivalent of the Hebrew Bible (Torah, Prophets and writings which, apart from a Religious document, is an historical confirmation of our claim whose written portions spans more than 1,700 years in great detail) that was written by the leader of all Indians, or even a single tribe of them, in which they cronicled their history, love of and development of the land, and why after many of the sold it to us (as Arabs did to Jews) they somehow magically still “own” it. Also, see ref [2] in my last citation for how at least Pennsylvania was acquired from it’s Indians.
And your suggestion of a homeland ripped from Germany as revenge is just silly and dumb.
Bottom line, your “thinking” is confused as a spider on drugs. Give it up and find a hobby that you can exploit your “strengths,” like say modern art
“is the moral highground based on distant history (as opposed to modern history and what’s happening now).”
GaffaUK continues to misunderstand, misrepresent the facts. Jews do not have a “distant history” seperated by millenia, but a CONTINUAM that spans more than 3,500 well documented years!
But he pretends that our claim is ONLY based on the “distant” past, when I have told him above and there is plenty of independent historical confirmation IF HE WOULD ONLY BOTHER. The fadt that he does not suggets he has an agenda other than the truth.
Remember that the BIG lie has nothing to do with who is the morally “better” people, that’s quite clear. It is, instead, who has HISTORICAL rights to the Land, and it is NOT the Arabs. By pretending that’s even open for debate, GaggaUK bolsters the Arab cause, whether he wants to or not, and my guess is that as most who argue as he does, he also shares the Arab desire to undercut the Jewish claim to the Land, because once that’s lost, it matters not who is better or worse.
The Land is ours, GaffaUK, not theirs. Period!
A FEW MORE RECOURCES…
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2009/01/difference-between-hamas-and-nazis.html
http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/pdf/biglies.pdf
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2007/07/abu-mazen-admits-palestinians-recent.html
http://www.allthingsbeautiful.com/all_things_beautiful/2006/01/the_myth_of_pal.html
http://www.allthingsbeautiful.com/all_things_beautiful/2006/03/the_myth_of_pal.html
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2008/03/video-hamas-cleric-calls-for.html
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~samuel/presence.html
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/presence.html
http://www.matthiaskuentzel.de/contents/hitlers-legacy-islamic-antisemitism-and-the-impact-of-the-muslim-brotherhood
http://www.zionism-israel.com/maps/Jewish_communities_700.htm
http://web.israelinsider.com/Views/3164.htm
Not that those who hate us will care, but those interested in truth will appreciate them.
And, yes, our main claim to the Land is that G-d gave it to us, and your pretending that doesn’t matter has nothing to do with the Reality.
@yonason
Drugged spider? What are you on more like? Anyway…
‘refutation of the lie that Americans stole all the land from the Indians’
I didn’t say that ALL tha lands were stolen. Just MOST. Those that weren’t were more often than ot coerced or clearly manipulated…
e.g.
In 1626, Peter Minuit acquired Manhattan from native people in exchange for trade goods worth 60 guilders, often mistakenly said to be worth $24: 60 guilders back then had the approximate value of $1000 now.[16] Additionally, the sale was transacted with the Canarsee tribe, who did not live on or have rights on the island; the Weckquaesgeeks who lived on the island itself were not contacted or consulted about the transfer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan
Before Pennsylvania was settled by Europeans, the area was home to the Delaware (also known as Lenni Lenape), Susquehannock, Iroquois, Eries, Shawnee and other Native American tribes. Most of these tribes were driven off or reduced to remnants as a results of the European colonization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Pennsylvania
William Penn’s sons John and Thomas, as well as James Logan indicated clearly that they had abandoned William Penn’s policy of fairness toward Native Americans
http://www.docheritage.state.pa.us/documents/walkingpurchase.asp
What happened to THOU SHALT NOT STEAL? hmmm?
“Israel is almost [2] unique in that she bought more arable land than she conquered or obtained through international legal arrangements”
Lol – so what? Imagine if Germans moved to England in 1939 and bought lots of land and then Germany invaded (well the Germans could claim ownership as the Saxons invaded hundreds of years before) in 1940 and then the Nazi’s made International legal arrangements with the French to move in and occupy – do you really think that is fair and moral? lol. But but hold on the Germans did buy some land beforehand!
With these International Legal arrangements – I guess you are refering to the discredited League of Nations and the Balfour Declaration. So did the majority of those living in the area get consulted and have a vote? No.
And it doesn’t matter what you call the Palestinians – there were people living there before. This included Jews but they only made up 11 per cent.
And you forgot to respond to DNA evidence. Have a look again…
Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim in 2000 matched historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[70][71] together as the one same population, represent modern “descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times”, albeit religiously Christianized and later largely Islamized, then both ultimately becoming culturally Arabized.[72] Referring to those of the Muslim faith more specifically, it reaffirmed that Palestinian “Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian#DNA_and_genetic_studies
The Native Americans don’t have their own bible. Why is that relevant? So it’s ok to invade and take back land that you invaded yourselves once thousands of years ago – BUT ONLY – as long as you have your own bible! Lol. That is nutty and immoral.
And I dealt with your CONTINUAM. Yes the Native Americans have this – but of course you disqualify them as they don’t share your GOD or have a bible. Remember the numbers of Jews dwindled down to 11 per cent. So as long as someone is the UK claims to be a Celt can boot out everyone else?
“And, yes, our main claim to the Land is that G-d gave it to us, and your pretending that doesn’t matter has nothing to do with the Reality”
See how you let the cat out of the bag. It all comes down to GOD. My God is better than your God. Your God doesn’t exist. If you don’t worship my God then I will kill you. I can take the lands you are living on now because my God said I could. Justifying invasion and violence based on religion is evil and makes you no better than Islamic fundamentalist who do the same thing.
GAFFA GOES INTO WIKI-OVERDRIVE…
I didn’t “forget.” I just don’t like wasting time. The problem with your genetic “proofs” is that Jews are smorgasbord of peoples. We are not a “race” but a Nation based on our Torah which is our constitution. It isn’t about the DNA. There is a core of us who can trace our lineage back as far as you want to go, among them The Gaon of Vilna, to whom tens of thousands today can in turn trace back their ancestry. Yet, even their DNA will show anomalous connections with other peoples because of the converts who have joined our Nation. The rule is that if the mother is Jewish, the child is whether the father is or not, but if the father is Jewish and the mother isn’t, then the child is not. DNA studies are bubkas. ASIDE – the paleostinkians are neither a race nor a separate nationality/culture/whatever and never have been, i.e., they haven’t any justification for their claim to peoplehood other than, as they have themselves confessed, to drive Jews off of Jewish Land.
As far as Jews “buying” large tracts of Land, that wasn’t because it wasn’t ours, but so the nations couldn’t accuse of being unfair to the tenants. Wasted effort that!
As far as Jews being in the minority, that was in large part due to British allowing illegal Arab immigration and forbidding the Jewish immigration it had a mandate to assist. In fact, many of the Arabs came to “Palestine” from elsewhere because the prosperity created by the Jews made it worth relocating for. Naturally the demographics would shift in favor of the Arabs, but not because they were the primary residents.
http://www.meforum.org/article/522
[Historical notes – just as the Roman empire began it’s collapse after it’s destruction of Israel, so too the British Empire’s collapse began with it’s abrogation of the Palestine Mandate. America should take note of the waves of troubles coming to us one after another and stop foolishly pressing Israel to rip out Judea and Samaria (aka “West Bank”), the heart of the heart of Historic Israel, as a gift to those who murder us.]
And, NO, the League Of Nations was NOT “discredited” [a popular lie used to support Arab fictions] and when the UN replaced the League they modified but didn’t invalidate the mandate.
http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100/concepts/british.html#unscop
As to the American Indians, any history text would do to show their claim to America. But you chose to twist my meaning, which was clearly stated “as an historical confirmation,” in order to push your amorphous ersatz. Perhaps I should have just said that the analogy of Indians and Americans to the Middle East is a bad one, rather than trying to point out one of the weaknesses of the argument.
“See how you let the cat out of the bag. It all comes down to GOD.’
There is neither cat nor bag. I’ve never even tried to conceal that G-d’s promise to us is our primary claim to the Land. Just because you refuse to accept it doesn’t invalidate the argument. But just because you don’t like that argument is no reason to reject the others, which are also perfectly valid, unless of course you reject them to spite me for my primary argument. But you wouldn’t do that, would you? It’s so mean and petty.
“SMOKE ‘EM IF YOU’VE GOT ‘EM“ — Darth Gaffa
We were told what to expect…
http://www.torah.org/features/israelmatters/jewishproblem.html
A person doesn’t HAVE to believe in G-d, but then, he doesn’t HAVE to be right, either.
Speaking of Joseph’s tomb, our sages have told us that at the “end of days” (not the end of the world, but of this phase of world history) ….
Not bad for a 2 thousand year old document! Almost one year after Kever Yosef was destroyed, Islam gave us 9/11. And since then the body count has, due to their aggression, been steadily mounting at an ever increasing pace…
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
The problem GaffaUK and his ilk have is their blindness to truth due their lack of moral clarity, …
http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/middleeast/Moral_Clarity_in_Gaza.asp
…and the sophistry with which they seek to conceal that defect from themselves as well as others.
‘We are not a “race” but a Nation based on our Torah which is our constitution’
Sounds like you contradicted yourself. Whoopee – if I convert to being a Jew – does that mean I get some land in Israel – the promised land?
‘The rule is that if the mother is Jewish, the child is whether the father is or not, but if the father is Jewish and the mother isn’t, then the child is not’
I no doubt you believe that – but that is bonkers. Either way – no baby that is born has any religious convictions.
‘As far as Jews being in the minority, that was in large part due to British allowing illegal Arab immigration and forbidding the Jewish immigration’
Funny that – you seem to use the British when you argue that it was a legit handover – that the British had a legal mandate BUT then you also say they allowed in all theses illegal Arab. Surely if the British are the so called legal landlords – they can let in who they like. Beside Jewish numbers had been falling way back since the ROMANS.
And again you avoid my question – why should the League of Nations decide on such an issue? Why wasn’t there a plebscite for the people already living there – to see what they wanted? The League of Nations was discredited as it didn’t have the US and it fell apart. The UN is also mocked (particualarly by our friends on here). Israel is always happy to break UN resolutions when it sees fit – so you can’t have it both ways. That is – whatever UN says is true, legal and fair but wrong, illegal and unfair when you don’t agree with them.
Again – with the historical documentation. Why are you hung up on this? First you claim some people’s names and places are made up whilst others are genuine and original (y’know – all names are made up) and now this documentation.
Since when have people living on lands that they have lived on for thousands of years needed documentation? lol. You mean – if the Native Americans had got together and written their creation myths and other fairy-tales than that would suffice for them to keep their lands? If Britain robs Native Americans of their lands and then writes up a ‘legal’ document giving it to William Penn or whoever – does that make it right and fair? If I buy something that has been stolen – then that doesn’t give me ownership of what I bought.
Most people in the world don’t accept the Jewish faith. It does invalidate the argument. If someone came up to you with their book of beliefs and demanded to live in your house because their book says so? Of course not. Religions are pretty contradicting themselves let alone when you compare them. So in that case, if the Muslims say that all land is Allah’s therefore they can stay put – you would not agree BUT accept this as a valid argument worthy of consideration? lol
Yeah – well I’m sure there is plenty of mumbo-jumbo which you can interpret as being THE TRUTH.
Also where are you living? Are you in Israel?
And what’s with G-d?
@GaffaUK:
“Funny that – you seem to use the British when you argue that it was a legit handover – that the British had a legal mandate BUT then you also say they allowed in all theses illegal Arab.”
Yeah, they violated the mandate they were charged with. What’s so hard to understand about that? They accepted the responsibility to do a well defined job, then they did something else. The conflict is in your perception, not in the historical facts, for which I gave reliable references, and which you obviously have no interest in learning.
And Native Americans didn’t “own” land, as that wasn’t part of their world view, so you need to be a lot more specific about what you mean by “theft” of something that someone doesn’t “own.” If you do, I may answer, but only if it’s a lot clearer than your previous ramblings.
As to your mocking Jewish traditions because they are incomprehensible to you, …
The best rules to follow are the ones that work, and ours do.
The Torah has been our guide to living for about the last 3500 years, and in that time we’ve had countless critics like yourself who think they have a better idea. The ancient Egyptians had a “better” idea. So did the Babalonians, the Persians, the Greeks, and the Romans, …all had “better” ideas. Unfortunately, they are now long gone. We’re still here. But then, that is just what G-d promised, and accurate in all it’s details, even to the fact that when we returned to OUR Land after an attempt to massacre us, the Arabs would rouse the World against us while at the same time starting wars all around the World and with the very people who are helping them against us. Now THAT’S irrational.
Finally, I guess I need to apologize for being so hard on you. It’s not that you aren’t wrong about a lot of what you are saying, it’s just that I can’t use your being wrong as an excuse to justify my being a jerk.
So because the the Native American didn’t have a European concept of owning land then it is justified for Europeans to simple land and take their lands that they lived on and hunted on for thousands of years? How immoral is that!!!
Again – do u live in Israel?
Again – do u live in Israel?
No, I don’t, yet. So what?
Many Indians were nomadic hunters, they lived off what they could hunt or gather. They lived in an environment that, if it changed, they adapted to as best they could. When the Europeans came, that effected a change in their environment. Some adapted, and some didn’t.
Many settlers were good to them, and some were not. Many Indians were good to the settlers, and some were not. Some Indians fought as allies of the colonists, apparently not at all bothered by their presence, and some fought for the colonists’ enemies. Some Indians were as evil as the Paleostinians, and some were as good as you please.
You grossly oversimplify the history in order to accuse settlers of “stealing” something Indians didn’t even see themselves as owning, and some of whom, by their aggression, deserved to lose if they had owned it. Now, if you want to accuse the American settlers of something, give details, otherwise stop with the grossly flawed and stupid analogies. They have nothing to do with Israel, anyway. And, besides, we were still Brittish when a lot of the (Eastern) land was “stolen” anyway, so if you want to blame someone, blame yourselves. Your the ones who got us into this.
The point I was making was that Israel’s Torah and Prophets are not only Religious texts, they are historical as well, and they document our history IN Israel for a span of about 1,700 years. The Indians have nothing, so if America is theirs, Israel is certainly Jewish. Then, since the Common Era began a lot of information on the Jewish connection to the Land has been generated, and even Arab historians before the modern era were honest enough to admit it. When you question it based solely on the lies of those who want to kill us, that strongly suggests that your thinking is at best not too clear on this.
The Land IS Jewish Land, not Arab Land, as I’ve shown with many references. You have done nothing but bring bad and vague analogies to other cases that are only superficially similar, make unproven assertions based on them, and the only documentation you have is weak, at best. So, given the fact that the Land is ours, and the Arab savagery is inexcusable from any civilized perspective, you have no justification for criticizing Israel, or for supporting the Arabs. And yet you persist, so I can’t help but wonder “why?”
Oh, and what’s this with “how immoral is that?”? You don’t believe in G-d, so where does your “morality” come from? You made it up? But that would mean you worship human intellect, so you do have a god after all and it is yourself. Now you just have to show me why your editorial opinion trumps 3700 years of tried and proven Jewish Tradition, and we’ll be on the same page.
I only ask – because if the land is yours then why don’t you live there? Have you ever been there? If it’s your land then does that make you an Israeli or (I presume) an American? Are you torn between two countries?
As for the Indians having to adapt to change – they why couldn’t Jews adapt to the fact that the land they were living on was no longer theirs? And because the Indians fought among each other does that mean others can take their land. Did Jewish tribes ever fight amongst themselves? The Indians didn’t see themselves as owning the land – but they also didn’t see the Europeans as having a right to it either. And of course it was the British – but I wasn’t there at the time.
My thinking is clear on this. I support the modern state of Israel because it is a fait accompli. It has been in existence for decades. I don’t support the setting up of the state based on a religious text which is not historically accurate. Can you prove the universe was created in 6 days because the Old Testament said so? You actually believe that baloney. If it starts like that then the rest of it is tosh as well.
So are you saying you have to believe in God in order to be moral. And what happend to the O in God – are you afraid to say his name? Is it like saying Voldemort or something? You only get your morals from a book? So you believe in all the morals from the Bible? And if there was no God – would you suddenly have no morals? I don’t worship anyone or thing. Why should I get on my knees and pray to some mythical thing or abstract idea. And something I don’t understand – what sort of sick God would make a prophet like Abraham (also valued by Christians and Muslims) go through sacrificing his son and then stop it at the last minute – like some kind of joke to show his devotion? If that’s moral then leave me out. And kids get taught this tripe! Whats tried and proven about Jewish myths?