“Like I said, lots of hate on each side.” (Simple)

O Boy! Your last sentence resumes your error. There is no hate on Israel side. The hater is on the Palestinian side only. Now I can see why you do not understand what is going out there. The first element of your premises is wrong.

Israel is not in war with Palestinians, neither were they with Lebaneses. They are in war with Hamas and were in war with Hezbollah. To make it clear to you: THEY ARE IN WAR WITH TERRORISTS.

Now if you cannot understand this and till you do understand this, there is no point of continuing this exchange with you. It is useless and hopeless. But at least, your last sentence did show us why you cannot understand this conflict. Now if someone more patient than me, like maybe Mata, could make you understand this, I think you could probably see why this war is a MUST an absolute MUST.

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Missy, Neighboring countries [didn't ma[k]e peace with Israel because they were beaten”– they made peace because they were promised aid. Egypt and Jordan get a hell of a lot of money from us. Depending on your foreign and military aid calculus, Jordan and Egypt come out in second and third place as the largest recipients of U.S. foreign aid just behind Israel. We’re buying off a monarchy and a dictatorship to keep the peace. If we pulled their aid, do you think the leaders would remain at peace with Israel? If you were to have elections in those countries, do you think Israel would stay at peace with them?

A vast majority of Egypt’s Muslim brotherhood support the Gazans over Israel. Jordan’s population believe they share a special religious heritage with the Palestinians. Both countries peoples are deeply sympathetic to the Palestinians, contrasted to Israels.

One of the political ‘fallouts’ from this conflict is Mubarak’s political bankruptcy with his own people now. Egypt is now no longer a buffer between Israel and the arab states, having lost its “political dignity”, but is now publicly leaning against Mubarak, as president, more now than any other time. Analysts are wondering if he can keep the country together now.

Of course I think children should be safe; safety is everything. I personally believe both side are misguided in this whole sad affair. But I don’t see it as clear-cut, it’s not a black and white issue. For example, Hamas did cut it’s rockets out, after the june 16 agreement, from 200 some-odd a day to about 5-10 a day. But Hamas is not a very structured organization and some vestiges of it’s more “lunatic” element rejected the agreement and for months snuck about shooting rockets over the border. In return, Israel ignored dropping the embargo and only permitted marginal amounts of trucks into Gaza.

Many believe the Gazans are so “broken” as a people (no schools, water, heat, medical supplies, jobs… but plenty of guns and rockets) that it’s primary source of sustenance is now the hatred of Israel. Both, I believe, are fueled by this horrid for each other.

Hamas’ popularity was waning prior to this conflict, now it’s growing in Gaza and gaining good support that it once had in years past. Israel was the catalyst for this. If they do a ground war they will deeply harden their support, not weaken it.

But it appears Israel ground war is coming; it has decided to assault certain areas in Gaza with ground troops. Some of the photographs I have seen of the vehicles are US made –155 mm self-propelled artillery pieces. There’s going to be a lot of artillery fire. The IDF will come in very heavy; too heavy. Like I said, lots of hate on each side.

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[...] the Democratic Party’s leadership is fully confused and split, and while Senator Obama wasn’t silent about anything for the years he spent running for [...]

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@simply done:

“He doesn’t sound as if the goal is going to be achieved in this military conflict, and the “goal” is more to stop “future rockets”.
I don’t think, as do many others, that the goal was worth it.
Now if they start a ground assault, they, one, further risk politically alienating Israel with her Arab neighbors, two, still won’t achieve ‘your’ goal of toppling Hamas (as they can’t do a “gorilla war” in Gaza), and three, escalate the violence for years to come.”

From your article, Netayyahu said he wasn’t going to get into long range tactics, the *short term goal* is to stop Hamas from firing their rockets.

Neighboring countries made peace with Israel because they were beaten, was achieving that goal worth it? Same has to happen with Hamas, otherwise there will be no peace for either side, and no state for the Palestinians. Do you think it’s right for Israeli children to live in fear of going to school, or their families running into bomb shelters everytime Hamas decides it wants to lob rockets into their market places? They’ve been though thousands of rocket attacks each time warranting an escape to a bomb shelter, don’t you think for the peace and safety of Israel that needs to stop? Do politics trump safety? Hamas could end this, their people don’t have to be caught up in a ground war but, they hate and are acting on hate.

Here’s an oped in this morning’s WaPo that I agree with:

Hard Truths About the Conflict

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/31/AR2008123102773.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR

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http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230733115606&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

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Defending ‘no mercy’:

(Commentary Mag.) The Israeli writer David Grossman has an op-ed that appears in both today’s New York Times and Guardian. Grossman says that “the most important lesson we must learn” from the Lebanon war in 2006 is that every military offensive should be halted after a few days to allow a cease-fire, so that the enemy can pause to take the measure of Israel’s destructive capabilities, and — for Grossman, this is really the more important point — Israel can restrain itself “[a]gainst the deadly logic of military power and the dynamic of escalation.”

It is interesting that cycle-of-violence fetishists, who are absolutely certain that military action is part of the problem, do not recognize the problem of the cycle of cease-fires. There is an opportunity right now to deal a crippling blow to Hamas, and it will require ground combat, more air strikes, and the maintenance of the IDF’s violence of action. There is indeed a cycle between Israel and its enemies, but the problem is not the cycle of violence. The problem is that every time the IDF is poised to strike a decisive blow against the enemy, the David Grossmans of the world emerge to plead for restraint exactly at the moment when restraint is the last thing that should be considered.

–Noah Pollack

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The “Disproportianate force” argument is just another way to bash Israel by Israel haters, anti-semites, and terrorist supporters. Israel is kicking butt while keeping civilian casualties to a minimum and they know it. Typical of the left, the victim (Israel) is the guilty one when the attacker (Hamas) is a member of one of their “protected groups”.

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If you hear some leftist/liberal saying Clinton had a better handle on the Palestinian question, remind them of how he offed Arafat by making Arafat wait while a Jewish girl performed fellatio on him.

As for B. Netanyahu(sp) I remember how he wanted Israel to take advantage of the world’s concern with China in wake of the Tiannamen Square episode to expel all the Palestinians from the Occupied Territories. Imagine how things would be now if he had been listened to.

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I answered in 23 …or more accurately, Peres answered it.

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@simply done: I always find it humorous when people ignore a informative, and intelligent question directed at them…that actually will make them answer a question honestly, and may actually make them look inward….and instead answer an attack comment instead that will lead to no where.

Quite telling…but not surprising.

I’m sure you just overlooked it right? Suuuurrreeee ya did.

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