I doubt Jan even knows what a Status Of Forces Agreement is.

Jan;
Those of us who have been military overseas do know. It’s required reading. Even if the SOFA expires, everything does not suddenly come to a screeching halt. In almost all cases, both parties continue to work under the previous agreement until a new one is established. It’s no big deal. The host government does have the option of refusing to negotiate at all and ordering our troops out. That is their prerogative. In which case, we are obligated to remove our forces within a certain amount of time as established in the former SOFA.

The Iraqi government has already come out stating they do not wish to exercise that right, as they do not feel they are comfortable enough with their democratic stability for us to pull our forces entirely. They told Obama this during his most recent visit. The same one where he tried to talk them into stalling the draw-downs until after the election to make bush appear more incompetent while making it look like he was doing something to get our troops out.

Most SOFA agreements are rather simplistic. It’s a general contract on how each party will govern themselves while co-operating. In fact, the president is rarely if ever involved. I suspect the reason Iraqis are balking is because they are concerned that Obama might pull our troops out before they are ready for it. That in no way favor Obama as a diplomat in this argument Jan.

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Jan,

Get some education and then come back to this site. We will be able to exchange with you. Till then, forget it. It is hopeless.

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Cute Jan… you’re so adept at playing “the victim”. Good little Obamabot you are. Funny how you keep showing up there, while simultaneously crying censorship. My my.. how is it you still manage to be visible here??

But what a lesson you are for us… a great example of the American that needs to be on Democrat government welfare. You know, the type Obama reminds us of daily? That long suffering lower and middle class citizen that – despite opportunities – just can’t seem to make it? Then again, finding jobs that require the single skill of Ctrl C/Ctrl V is rare indeed. Times are tough for that educational level. May I suggest trade school? I hear Obama’s got many taxpayer funded work programs he wants to create.

When you learn how to think intstead of cut and paste, you might be paid attention to. However I’m not interested in debating either the NYTs, Telegraph or CNN journalists quotes, channeled thru that shadow of a brain trust known as you.

The spin on the Iraq war, WMD, the Surge and SOFA’s have been ongoing… as via our discussions here via many past threads. You are so far behind on their history, there is no where to start but in homeschooling tutorials. However catching you up to current events is not my job in in life.

Should you not start contributing instead of cut/pasting, you are living on borrowed time here. But I’m sure there are many other lesser blogs that may appreciate what little you offer to contribute.

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A classified review of U.S. policy in Afghanistan is likely to judge that the United States is losing ground there, according to a government official involved with preparing the review.
The review is likely to say the U.S. doesn’t have forces for an Iraq-style “surge.”

The review is likely to say the U.S. doesn’t have forces for an Iraq-style “surge.”
…

The new Central Command analysis, conducted by dozens of experts from across the government, focuses in particular on likely hot spots for the next administration, including Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran, according to three U.S. officials familiar with the review.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/11/07/afghanistan.review/

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So, because you don’t like it, you delete it, again.

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Ya know, Jan… you really ought to be more patient. I’m sure it will take Obama more than 72 hours to “part the waters” and “heal the earth”. You may be asking just too much of your messiah

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uh huh… gets better and better, Jan.

Now you post a Telegraph article (another of those really “bipartisan” publications, right…) that has an anonymouse “western diplomat” speaking for Maliki who says they “took Iraq off the table” for Obama by “endorsing” his withdrawal plan which, BTW, was the same as Bush’s because the time was ripe for withdrawal

DOH… or in your case, would that be DUH! Obama, like a broken clock, is apt to be right once or twice a day with his old, parroted, end the war campaign rhetoric. Considering that Bush has always said when the Iraqis can govern and defend themselves, we’re outta there, what’s diffferent?

Right… Obama was doing timelines when the violence was at it’s height, and the Iraqis could not govern nor defend themselves.

Then “the surge” and all related elements. Now the way is clear for Iraqis to govern and defend themselves… no thanks to the President elect and his traitorous Congressional buds.

Now you tout some no-name, speaking for Maliki as “proof” it’s all about Obama?

Pathetic. The facts still remain the same. Need ‘em again, Jan?

**The SOFA was going to be agreed to before the end of the year, while still negotiating with the Bush admin, not the Obama admin…. much to Obama, Congressional, and Juan Cole’s chagrin.

**Obama’s election just proved they feel they will get the best deal with Bush… not Obama. Otherwise, they’d wait a couple of months. Afterall, while deal with hard core Bush when they can wait for the “more generous” Obama?

**What your post does prove – assuming your “speculation” is correct – is that Ahmadinejad is grinning ear from ear because he feels confident that Obama would never instigate regime change, and is thereby a paper tiger. You might say the military options just left the table… plus now it’s compounded by a “more generous” anonymous remark.

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Comes as no surprise that you, Jan, along with the NYTs would try to spin this. Fly in the ointment for both your analyses?

1: The largest sticking point in the SOFA agreement was not the timeline, but the issue of Iraq sovereignty, and who’s rule of law governed the military and civilian workers. The Sadrists objection is the redeployment of the US troops out of the city centers ASAP. None of these were unsurmountable obstacles.

The timeline? Not so much. The dissention with the SOFA’s Dec 31, 2011 end date for all troops withdrawal – with any extensions agreed to by both sides – was the not so powerful posturing of some of the Shi’ites on the meaning of ‘stable’. (shades of Teflon Bill and “depends on what the meaning of “is”… is). However even the Iraqis admit that too rapid a withdrawal leaves them vunerable. And “conditions based” flexibility is something they all know is a reality…. tho it hurts their national pride. But it is, and always was a time table that could be worked out, as it was not the central bone of contention

As for them being happier with an Obama presidency… how did you put it… “nicer”?? You deliberately chose to overlook their stated gratitude towards the Bush admin in the very article you purport says they prefer Obama to Bush.

Even Hadi al-Ameri’s comments, which you selectively seized on above to put the messiah glow and spin on your boy, said:

Mr. Ameri, who is chairman of the security committee of Iraq’s Parliament, said that Iraqi politicians did appreciate the Bush administration’s commitment to Iraq. Signing the agreement while President Bush was still in office would be “a minimum sign of appreciation,” Mr. Ameri said.

A *minimum* sign of appreciation for the POTUS you and your party love to hate. The same POTUS who you give no credit for Iraq falling off the campaign issue list because it’s going well.

It’s truly sad that it is the foreigners that see what this POTUS has done for them, and all you and your party have had to offer is years of personal abuse and the highest insult for a sitting President. I shall try not to do the same to your personal “in”, but I shall always view you and ilk as a “fair weather” American.

2: Which brings us to your completely asinine conclusion that the Iraqis play “nicer” with Obama than Bush. Just how dense can you be?

Not only are they appreciative of Bush, but if they thought Obama would be “nicer”, they would just wait and negotiate with his administration… extending the UN mandate to cover the gap.

In fact, to show you just how self absorbed your candidate and our President elect is, he suggested that the Iraqis NOT sign a SOFA until he gets into office. This all came out when Amir Tahiri reported that Obama was trying to delay any troop withdrawals when he did his photo op tour of Baghdad this summer.

This immediately brought out Obamatron, Juan Cole, to “that one’s” defense… who straightened those facts out by using quotes from the Obama campaign spokesperson herself:

“The Obama campaign said:”

‘But Obama’s national security spokeswoman Wendy Morigi said Taheri’s article bore “as much resemblance to the truth as a McCain campaign commercial.”

In fact, Obama had told the Iraqis that they should not rush through a “Strategic Framework Agreement” governing the future of US forces until after President George W. Bush leaves office, she said.

In the face of resistance from Bush, the Democrat has long said that any such agreement must be reviewed by the US Congress as it would tie a future administration’s hands on Iraq.

“Barack Obama has never urged a delay in negotiations, nor has he urged a delay in immediately beginning a responsible drawdown of our combat brigades,” Morigi said.’

In typical Obama forked tongue style, Ms. Morigi confirmed that Obama suggested that the SOFA shouldn’t be rushed, and perhaps done after the Bush term, plus suggested that SOFA agreement be submitted to Congress for approval.

Then, in the next sentence, said he didn’t do that….

huh? “Dense” is evidently not an unusual trait in Obama supporters. But thanks for clearing up that Obama suggested the SOFA wait for the new POTUS, Wendy.

3: Another “sign” of an Obama presidency appears to be that Iran already recognizes Obama’s weakness towards them. ala from your linked NYTs:

But now, the Iraqis appear to be feeling less pressure from Iran, perhaps because the Iranians are less worried that an Obama government will try to force a regime change in their country.

In recent weeks Mr. Ameri, who spent years in Iran and leads the Badr Corps, a onetime paramilitary arm of the Supreme Council, was one of several senior party members who appeared to be reflecting Iran’s concerns with a reluctance to endorse the pact.

Interesting that this same guy – “reflecting Iran’s concerns” – is also the very same who said signing the SOFA with the Bush was a minimum sign of appreciaton for his admin’s support of a liberated and free Iraq. Something no DNC Congress member can claim with a straight face.

Altho there is not one substantial fact provided that distinguishes the Time’s statement about Obama and “regime change” from mere speculation, you, and the Times reporter, have just confirmed our worst fears: that Iran sees Obama as a paper tiger as a world leader.

Wow… I feel safer already.

In case the obvious still eludes you, I’ll recap:

**The SOFA was going to be agreed to before the end of the year, while still negotiating with the Bush admin, not the Obama admin…. much to Obama, Congressional, and Juan Cole’s chagrin.

**Obama’s election just proved they feel they will get the best deal with Bush… not Obama. Otherwise, they’d wait a couple of months.

**What your post does prove – assuming your “speculation” is correct – is that Ahmadinejad is grinning ear from ear because he feels confident that Obama would never instigate regime change, and is thereby a paper tiger. You might say the military options just left the table…

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Barack Obama may have been elected only three days ago, but his victory is already beginning to shift the political ground in Iraq and the region.

Iraqi Shiite politicians are indicating that they will move faster toward a new security agreement about American troops, and a Bush administration official said he believed that Iraqis could ratify the agreement as early as the middle of this month.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/world/middleeast/07iraq.html?ref=todayspaper&pagewanted=print
Seems they play nicer with Obama than Bush.

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“They’ve been pushed so hard by the Iraqi’s to get out that they now have no other choice but to leave.” (Jan)

Lol… Hey girl, you have it all wrong. The Iraqi government have been pleading for the U.S. not to leave them before they can make it on their own. Where do you get your information from? A popcorn box?

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