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On 60 minutes last night Obama said they he and McCain had the exact same about of executive experience. The comment comes around the 30 second mark on this video. Sorry Senator Obama, but I beg to differ.
McCain’s combat duty began in 1967 when he was thirty years old. He was almost killed later that year. Lieutenant Commander McCain was almost killed when a Zuni rocket discharged on the flight deck. Of the USS Forestal here escaped from his jet and helped another man escape before the explotion. After this tragedy McCain volunteered to serve on the USS Oriskany.
On October 26 1967 McCain went down in Hanoi and was taken Prisoner by the Viet-cong. He served two years in solidary confinement. He was offered release but refused because their were others who had been POW’s longer. August of 68 is when a prolong series of torture began. He was beaten every two hours! His injuries has left him unable to raise his arms above his head. McCain was released on March 14, 1973 after serving five and a half years has a POW.
When John McCain came back to America he received rehab for his injuries and attended the War College in 1976 he became a commanding officer of a training squad in Florida. The squad won a Meritorious Unit Commendation.
In 1977 McCain served as the Navy’s liason to the U.S. Senate According to McCain, this was the begining of McCain’s political career. McCain retired from the Navy in 1981 has a Captain. He had received 17 Millitary rewards: The Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star and Navy Commendation Medal were just a few of them.
So McCain was a Lieutenant Commander and a Captain. After receiving some comments saying this shouldn’t qualify has executive experience I thought I should find out what the responsiblities for these ranks were.
A Lieutenant Commander is a senior department officer on a large ship or shore installation. They may also be commanding officer or executive officer (second-in-command) of a smaller ship or installation. Lieutenant Commander (LCDR) is a junior officer rank, with the pay grade of O-4. Lieutenant Commander ranks above Lieutenant and below commander. Lieutenant Commander is equivalent to the rank of Major in the other uniformed services. The Lieutenant Commander is the most senior of the junior officer ranks.
Captain (CAPT) is a senior officer rank, with the pay grade of O-6. It ranks above Commander and below Rear Admiral (lower half). It is equivalent to the rank of Colonel in the other uniformed services. Navy Captains may also fill important senior staff positions or have shore based command assignments, such as commanding officer of a naval station, naval air station, naval support activities, specialized centers or commanders of test wings or training air wings.
John McCain was an officer in the U.S. navy for 14 years. He trained men and gave orders that entire time. He made decisions that other men had to follow and he had these men’s lives in his hands. Has an officer he was also responsible for setting an example for his men to follow. If that doesn’t count has executive experience I must not understand the what the term means.
I guess Obama once again forgot about McCain’s military record when he was speaking on 60 minutes. Obama seems to forget about McCain’s military record frequently. It’s come to the point I no longer believe it’s an accident. I believe that Obama is intentionally ignoring McCain’s military record because he doesn’t have one of his own.
Does not having served make someone unfit to be President? Absolutely not. Just as simply being in the military does not make someone qualified to be President. However saying someone with 14 years of executive experience in our military has the same amount of executive experience has a Freshman Senator who served has a community organizer and a State Senator is absurd. If Obama really believes McCain has no executive experience that alone should disqualify him from becoming our next President.
I agree that John McCain’s tenure as the commanding officer of a training squadron qualifies as executive experience, but in your post that appears to only have lasted for a year. Flying a single seater aircraft is not executive experience. Neither is being a POW. In this regard, John McCain passed the test of his character,courage, and leadership with flying colors, but that’s different from saying he acquired executive experience. Finally, the position of Navy liaison to the Senate is not an executive, or to use military parlance, a command position. John McCain did not acquire 14 years of executive experience in the military just by virtue of having been a Navy officer for 14 years.
In a military environment, you are subject to the authority of others, as others are subject to your own. You advance in rank based almost entirely on performance and your ability to work in a teamwork based environment. At each level of rank, you are given and expected to perform with additional duties and responsibilities. At the rank of Major and above, you are also working within the constraints of a budget and are in more direct charge of maintaining vehicles, equipment and training of personal, including the career promotions, the health and safety of those personnel.
The number of men and women McCain would have been in charge of at his last command will have numbered more than three hundred, including multiple billions of dollars worth of facilities, aircraft and other equipment.
Can Obama match that level of executive experience and the training and experience which led to that executive experience?Can he match that level of responsibility and the training and ongoing education required to gain that responsibility and experience?
Pffft.
The answer is, “Of course not.”
Compare their senate records if you will. That’s fair game. To cavalierly dismiss McCain’s executive level experience in the military? hmpf. You’re an ignorant fool.
I was a sergeant in the Marine Corps. I’ve managed and owned businesses since that time. Hell, I have more executive level experience than Obama.
WELL SAID Warren!
Obama has little experience even as a Senator. Most of the time he’s been in office, he’s been out on the campaign trail.
And as for his comments about THAT being his qualifications with experience in leading many people….that’s just obsurd! The person the campaign is FOR is NOT the one who RUNS the show – that’s all the people he’s chosen to be in those positions to make the decisions about who gets hired, what commercials to run, etc.
Obama has nothing in his resume that qualifies him to be President. And WARREN…I’d vote for YOU before I voted for him!
Janelle
Sheesh, while we are at it, I have more executive experience than Obama. I am a 25 year veteran firefighter. I have been an officer since my seventh year on the fire department reaching the rank of senior captain. My responsibilities include, but are not limited to, overseeing the daily operations of my station including personnel and their training, maintaining records on all apparatus (fire trucks) and equipment and ensuring that they are all in safe working order. If not, get them fixed. Maintain all records regarding personnel, training, apparatus, equipment and ensure that all records are OSHA, MI-OSHA, and NFPA compliant, and that all training, equipment, and apparatus are OSHA, MI-OSHA, and NFPA compliant. Purchase new equipment and apparatus while staying within budget. Maintain the station itself and making sure the station is safe to work in and is OSHA, MI-OSHA, and NFPA compliant.
Supervise and assign jobs at emergency incidents as well as do actual firefighting and other actions that require physical activity. Command emergency incidents in the absence of a higher ranking officer. Ensure safety of assigned crew while working at emergency incidents. Ensure safety of victims and the public. Ensure safety of the environment at emergencies (yes, environmental issues are part of a firefighter’s job). Rescue victims or rescue firefighters who have become victims while carrying out their job duties. Write disciplinary actions as needed, resolve personnel issues and conflicts.
I know there is more but I am short on time. But I think we all get the idea.
Is this the same guy that thought he could find some value in saying that he ALMOST joined the military. John McCain did serve in the military.
OBAMA IS A CERTIFIABLE DEGENERATE LIAR.
Vote for John McCain President of the United States of America!
Comrade Obama is a flip flop, a liar and a fraud. On top of all that, he is arrogant, ignorant and has no executive experience whatsoever. Every American secretary women have more experience than him.
Obama was Chairman of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge from 1995 to 2001, and was responsible for $150 Million dollars in grants to improve Chicago Schools see http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/08/21/steve-diamond-lawyerblogger-hot-on-the-obama-ayers-trail-his-annenberg-challenge-story/ for more background.
Bottom line, the final report showed that there was no statistical difference between Annenberg schools and demographically similar non-Annenberg schools. $150 Million Dollars to help Chicago School children, NO results. Most executives with this type of track record would do everything they could to hide the fact they were ever were involved in a failure of this size … oh yeah, that might be why the Obama camp tries to silence anyone who ever mentions it.
Thanks Tony for bringing the only example of Obama’s experience that all the media and BO’s camp followers have labored to keep a mystery….I believe the Annenburg Gate is the Oct Surprize for the One.
always the POW story. do you also want to ignore the influence of McCain’s father in getting him into the positions he attained? Being a POW, being shot down in effectively your first sortie is faliure. McCain’s military career is only distinguished when you quantify suffering as having more import than actual combat.
you guys are as partisan as the liberals you keep bashing. i’m wasting my time here.
But of course you are, Sam. But at least most of us aren’t wasting *our* time reading and responding to your underinformed comments.
Financial woes started with Reagan, indeed. LOL Here’s a little walk thru reality for you.
Make sure you take it “to go”. We don’t want you wasting time, afterall. Daily KOs and Huffpo awaits.
Mata, are you really sure you want to have an argument about reagan’s true legacy with me? you can’t keep up. and no, i’m not a liberal, and i consider the daily kos and huffington post to be as radically offbase as this site.
I hate gross generalizations. Personally, I only care about the facts. When the left/progressive/liberal Democrats begin to examine Obama’s background with the same fine-tooth comb they use to dig into allegations against McCain/Palin, I’ll back off a bit. Until then, left, right or center, to accuse others of partisanship while practicing it yourselves is a distortion of reality. To use the word as an epithet to describe your political opponents only ensures that you have defined yourselves by the same epithet. Cognitive dissonance is a type of lie, when you get down to the bottom line, and there is no worse lie than the one you tell yourself.
Whatever the party, if the candidate is corrupt, then get rid of him or her. Immediately. In order to do that, we must arrive at the facts, offer proofs and evidence and give up the veil, the blinders, of ideological partisanship.
This means that we must examine the careers, the education, the experiences and the backgrounds and associations of both candidates objectively, factually, and openly, sans ideology and emotion. Otherwise, we ourselves practice the very tyranny against mankind, our fellow citizens, or fellow freemen, that we claim to defy and claim that we struggle to render impotent.
But first…we must examine ourselves according to the same standards that we use to examine others. The bottom line is: Are we being objective or are we lying to ourselves and to our fellow freemen.
Sam, I’m pretty sure John McCain flew more than a few missions before being shot down on what you describe as his first sortie. Where’d you see that it was his first?
you speak of gross generalizations and then accuse me of hyprocrisy. i am sure that almost every active participant on this site who subscribes to the beliefs here will likewise classify themselves as a conservative. thus, echoing that classification is more a statement of fact; anything else would be an act of cowardice.
if you actually believe that the mccain campaign, the hillary campaign, and just about everyone else has not delved deep into the past of the first effective black presidential candidate then you are living in wonderland. speaking of past histories and qualifications, if you look at obama, especially in comparison to our great presidents and then conclude that he is somehow corrupt or incapable, then you are the indeed the one committing iedological partisanship. i have no inherent interests here; i plan to not vote.
Thanks for the link Sam
Seems to me there’s a bit of a discrepancy between your ‘practically his first sortie’ and the fact that he flew 23 missions over Vietnam before being shot down. Maybe the first 22 don’t count.
Sam, Sam Sam…I wasn’t asking the MSM, the McCain campaign or the Hillary campaign to dig into anyone’s past or to examine objective facts. I was asking you to do so.
…and I never called you a hypocrite. You managed to do that all by yourself.
An objective examination of the facts, howeve, does reveal very questionable behavior on the part of Mr. Obama. Behavior that has disqualified past candidates for the office he seeks.
Now, to head off the inevitable ad homs about my own political beliefs, I’m something of a radical libertarian these days. Neither party represents me, nor are they adherents of the least of the ideals contained within The Constitution.
Ah, just to be clear: In short, a radical libertarian subscribes to the “less is more” theory of government. Both political parties promote big, bigger, biggest theories of government. The Republicans are national socialists in all but name, while the Democrats are communist socialists in all but name…but you really need to possess and understand an in-depth knowledge of history in order to see that. Plus, neither party can seem to divorce themselves from Keynesian economics, which is the foundation of our present economic meltdown. (Free market economics went out the door in 1913 and FDR finished it off.)
“try this for a start”=guilt by accusation. A tactic Republicans used against Bill Clinton, Democrats have used against George W Bush, and now…common place.
Sam, my point about Bush is only as a direct object to the strategy that the link you provided uses: guilt by accusation. Recall that to balance my comment I referenced Bill Clinton as well. The link you gave doesn’t give facts/it ASKS QUESTIONS; specifically it asks misleading questions with the intent of creating an image of wrong-doing or guilt. For example, why mention the Forrestal fire? McCain was one of 5000 people involved. Yeah, he lost his plane. In fact, he almost lost his ship! Ooooo. How about all the other accidents, a mechanical, a hot dogging fighter pilot (oh how unusual in the 1960′s!), and similar.
No sir. Senator McCain is not a perfect man, but he has an incredible military record-one that deserves massive praise.
I wonder if you see the irony in defending the idea that Sen Obama’s been vetted, but Sen McCain hasn’t in all the years he’s been in the senate, all the campaigns he’s run, and the 2yrs that HE TOO has been a candidate for President (his second time)? No irony?
23 combat missions-often extremely dangerous, and many with arguably the best squadron of the war, and you suggest that he’s just a guy who got shot down practically on his first mission, and everything else is hype? No way man. I’ve seen the video of him rolling through the flames on the deck of the Forrestal. I’ve talked w people who were there that day. McCain is a hero, and his resume is a lot thicker than community organizer.
Sam says in post #9
But has changed his tune by post #15
And we are supposed to believe ths statement you made?
Just like the Democratic candidates, Can’t keep your story straight and then when called on it, backtrack and make excuses.
Sam…I thought you were leaving because you said this place was a waste of time….yet you’re still here…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24518450/
That’s 2 of 23 missions.
I don’t think community organizer is degrading-my point there is that
community organizer+lawyer+teacher+state legislator+Senator for 150 days
<>
23 remarkable combat missions over North Vietnam, years in a POW camp that resulted in numerous medals and citations, a remarkable experience as a squadron leader, decades in Congress, and more.
Community organizer is great, but war hero and veteran, esteemed, bi-partisan, maverick member of Congress is better.
Oh please Sam, enlighten us with all of the accomplishments Obama achieved when he held each of those positions. I wait in anticipation.
*chirp, chirp*
scott, in my opinion, being a fighter pilot, no matter how great(and mccain was not), and showing extraordinary courage as a prisoner of war is not exactly what i think of when electing a president.
we can have that maverick/bi-partisan debate some other time. i used to be a mccain supporter believing the lies until i woke the f_ up some years back.
regarding decades in congress, almost all our bad presidents had been in washington for too long, and our great presidents, barely enough. years in congress means almost nothing to me when judging a candidate. it’s akin to someone saying that obama is far more intelligent than mccain so he is more qualified. i want high intelligence in my candidate, but that’s not the first thing we should look at.
regarding his awards, he received his most distinguished awards for his bravery as a captive, not a figter. besides i seem to remember one’s military awards not being so important when the candidate was kerry.
this is silly. should we go find every holocaust survivor and make them our president for courage in the face of destitution? come on. on the big issues mccain lags, but i won’t vote for obama because the two party system is a disgrace in a system like ours.
Ahhh! Sam’s an astroturfer…and isn’t very good at sophistry.
Say hello to Mr. Axlerod for us, will ya, Sam?
…and learn a bit more about logic and rhetoric, please.
udder, sorry to disappoint you but i’m not here to make you vote for obama, merely to prevent you from voting for that liar, mccain. if you want information on obama, try this website:
http://www.google.com
it’s fairly easy to use, i’m told
Sam #11. Wasn’t ignoring you, but had to run out.
In the interest of keeping conversation continuity, why don’t you wander over to the “perfect storm” post and explain to us your comment on the “rewriting history” thread about how our economic status today is the fault of Reagan.
I, for one, would be curious to see how you lay the influx of high risk mortgages, leading to over valued housing… all which first commenced with Community Reinvestment Act (signed by Carter) and compliance regulation changes by Clinton Jan 1, 1995 is somehow the fault of Reagan.
INRE your slamming McCain’s service record… the subject of this thread…. You said:
One may get in the door because of nepotism. If you are suggesting that McCain is nothing but a byproduct of his father’s influence, then you’d have to say the same for every offspring. Fact is, nepotism only gets you so far. Performance is what keeps you on the path of advancement.
Obviously the only thing you know about the Vietnam era is what you read in some history book. Pilots were not a dime a dozen in those years. The fighting was brutal, and our casualties high. Everyone I went to high school with, save one, never returned from Vietnam. Frankly, that McCain survived not only the sorties, but his POW years, *is* exceptional. That you find “there isn’t much else to be proud” doesn’t surprise me, based on your presentation here.
INRE Obama.. he does have experience. However what we can actually point to is the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, where he and Ayers funneled $160 mil in cash towards an educational experience that resulted in nothing… whit… as results.
As far as the community organizer goes… those I know are knock on doors/raise money types. Congrats… he can raise money. His campaign proves that. However CAC shows he also knows how to blow other people’s money. Oddly enough, since he’s not major horse lengths ahead of McCain, despite doubling the cash output, one might be able to say the same about his campaign.
Well Sam, I think a Distinguished Flying Cross is a pretty big medal-worthy of respect, admiration, and honor. I also think that his experience in combat makes him more capable to lead a nation that is at war. For me, the election’s about foreign policy. Both Obama and McCain have basically the same foreign policy, but McCain knows what it’s like to fly the air strikes that will be needed in the future. He’s been on the ground during B52 carpet bombing raids, so I don’t think he’ll be reckless with the weapons of war, and I think Senator Obama’s never been tested in a life/death situation where others’ lives and deaths hang in the balance of his decisions.
We are a nation at war which means we need a warrior not a lawyer.
Sam at #11:
I worked for Reagan. And I had both him and Nancy before they were elected. So, you might say I know a thing or two about Reagan.
If you have some comments on the Reagan legacy I’d be only too happy to offer my first person viewpoint in case there is any correction to your view that is required.
warren, if you are going to again resort to ad hominems, please illustrate where my logic or reasoning falls short.
regarding axelrod, you probably know more about him than me. the surprise is how someone with his background isn’t running mccain’s campaign. i will take the assumption that i’m somehow being paid by the obama campaign as a compliment; this website is just as bad as kos or the huffington post.
Ah, so you’re he to just throw generalizations out but won’t back them up? OK, let me make a few statements that maybe you can use that google thingie to look up
Community Oraganizer = Rabble Rouser. Taught community how to commit voter fraud. Worked with Rezko and ACORN.
Lawyer = Worked for firm that represented slumlord Rezko
Professor = Taught course on Race, gender and activisim.
State Senator = Given bills that were written by other senators to boost his creds.
US Senator = Campaigned for President
Hey Scott,
What a lot of drivel. There are thousands of aviators that are not qualified to be POTUS.
Too bad your guy also crashed 4 or 5 planes. Well, I guess that qualifies him to follow W.
You do know the polls now favor Obama ?
No wonder he wants to cancel the debate.
Ready, FIGHT !!
Bunch of cry babies.
Mata,
i look forward to presenting my reagan story; let’s say it’s done by thursday, since i’m not getting paid for this and it will be a lengthy piece.
on vietnam, i know more than enough; and i have my own personal story to back me up, but let’s not go there. the fact of the matter is, then as now, we always had more pilots than aircraft. you don’t have 2 accidents and still get to fly; let alone 4.
if you sincerely believe that a bad student from the academy with relatively parse combat experience moves through the naval ranks at the rate of mccain simply based on experience then you are being a bit naive.
on obama and the CAC, i don’t know enough to be honest but i will gather more information. until then, no assumptions on my end, and i certainly won’t accept your take as completely true. not now anyway.
omg, any aviator that flew combat missions like McCain’s, and endured the POW years the way he did, then went on to serve in Congress the way he has…those aviators would likely have my vote over Obama as well. re the crashing of several planes…I think he’s paid for them in blood.
irrelevant. His combat record made up for his scholastics. Can’t blame a guy for a mechanical, for having a carrier explode around him, and for being shot down. Sorry. That kinda reasoning doesn’t wash.
Scott, “OMG” is “in shock”. Same sheeeet in da can with a new label. Carry on…
scott,
quite frankly, i think you are lost. america’s major problems are internal. from eduaction to fiscal responsibility to energy, we are way behind the boat. secondly, the wars of the future won’t be fought in conventional ways, so why are we spending more money than the entire continent of europe on defense? third, if mccain cared so much about not putting our service men at risk he would not have supported the iraq war nor continue to push for a military action against iran! military experience is the most overrated “qualification” for the presidency. there are other ways to serve the country, and again, it does not make you any more likely to be a good president, just ask grant.
Brought to us in major part and parcel by the Party of the Jackass
udder, i will not take the bait and get distracted. my focus is on mccain. 10 years ago, i would be here defending him, since i was a brainwashed idiot just getting out of college. point is, fuck obama; i am here to trash mccain and hopefully(dreamland here) get some good folks to cast their votes for a third candidate, whomever that might be.
Cling to hope .
Sam,
While I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, there’s a difference as well
1) America’s problems are largely internal, but imo the Congress has more control over internal issues than the President
2) future wars? CURRENT wars are not fought conventionally. McCain knows this and understands it. He’s no stranger to the relationship between post-Vietnam era American wars and the Federal govt. He’s been in the govt during the evolution of the process. You’re reasoning gets way off here…when it comes to spending money on military stuff (Europe for example) it’s because we’re defending places so others don’t need to/so they can spend their money…on us. re Iraq, Biden and a lot of people authorized that war. And man, you do not wanna get me going on wmd or regime ties to AQ. It was necessary, unavoidable, and when you talk about wars being fought unconventionally, I’ll only reference you to Che Guevarra’s writings about propaganda, politics, media, and Gov Howard Dean. Re Iran…Obama’s policy is the same as Bush’s or McCain’s, and Obama’s statement this week was more harsh than either of theirs.
3) a military “qualification” is not overrated when the nation is at war.
The nation is at war, and a warrior is better qualified to lead a nation at war than a lawyer/community organizer
OMG,
Isn’t Obama all about HOPE and CHANGE?
If there’s one lesson from these 2 yrs of campaigning, it’s DON’T TRUST THE POLLS
scott, your kind of reasoning is a bit far off for my taste. mccain is a 72 year old man who still believes in reaganomics, thinks we are fighting a cold war, and is married to a vapid chick because of money and politics. he IS NOT the same officer who said fuck you the viet cong. either way, this is becoming repetitive.
and mata, i don’t take too kindly to your insinuation with regards to that poster. its called an IP check for fuck sake.
Sam#41. Compose away on the Reagan to subprime link, then post it at your convenience on the thread I mentioned. Actually most of us here on FA are long of opinions that are chuck full of viable source links (that doesn’t mean journalist opinions as much as hard sources such as govt docs, hard statistics, original docs, etc).
As for Annenberg, use my post from Aug 21 which gives you links to many documents and… most importantly… to the quintessential expert on the subject, Steve Diamond. That should bring you up to speed.
I’m considerably less “naive” than you are cynical and judgmental on McCain’s career. Frankly, I don’t see much in your presentation that elevates your opinion to the level of “truth” you say it is. Personally, I’m not much on either party. Frankly, I’d like to recall the entire Congress. However my answer is not yours… to either not vote, or cast it for a 3rd party which throws it to one I like less than the other. But I confess… I did that on principle in some previous elections until I got tired of living with the results that I contributed to. Oddly enough, that’s when I was a “libertarian”. I have since wised up.
Guns or butter, fellas, guns or butter. Didn’t you all learn anythink in community college.
The world is passing us by while we are fighting a war contrived over oil.
Move on.
I wondered why we pay so little for gas….now I know….it the industrial military machine!
Sam,
McCain doesn’t think we’re fighting the Cold War. He pushed for The Surge long before it happened (not just more troops, but a shift to counter-terrorism tactics).
What’s illogical about needing a man who we know won’t get the human form of Deer Fever when it comes time to order men and women into harm’s way (as every President has needed to, and as this next President surely will need to as we are a nation at war)?
Like it or not, we have a 2 party system, and that means it’s McCain or Obama. Obama’s got no record of acting in a bi-partisan manner, no military background (essential for a nation at war imo), was wrong on the Iraq War, can’t pay for his domestic agenda, and the list goes on and on.
I used to like Obama when I thought he could actually bring people together, but he can’t. He’s tried and failed. So his one real asset was just sizzle sans steak.
Interesting observation. Nope… didn’t have to check the IP. No major privacy invasion going on. Called repetative phrases with only a slightly different twist. Said the same thing a day or so in another thread. He’s not new here, Sam.
On the other hand, I find it offensive when the same posters come into the community and try to portray themselves as different personalities. Don’t mind conversations, but we’ve actually had them come in here and converse with themselves.
And I find it more interesting that you’d leap to the conclusion I’d spend any amount of time on that.
Scott,
1. the congress is only powerful when one party dominates, since it can’t seem to get its act together. until then, it’s a bunch of ivies and cowboys bitching about which one of their friends gets a fatter check. it is almost irrelevant for the most past these days. the president sets the vision for our country, at least since FDR.
2. the president is the CIVILIAN leader of the military. he doesn’t fight the wars; thank God for that. besides which, mccain has no strategic military experience; he was no admiral, he was no general. that argument is moot.
On Iraq, it was bush’s war. i did not see mccain opposing it. the idea that Iraq was a necessary war is so far off I feel like punching my screen. iraq was planned a while back by Wolfowitz; 911 was simply a reason for him to make the push. I have no time for Che and his idealism. And on Iran, McCain is clearly the hawk. we can have the iraq debate if you want; you will lose.
3. military experience is always overrated. wars are not fought by the bloody president. he/she has other more qualified people to do the bidding. the president sets the strategy
dot org
Mata, let’s say i jumped to perhaps the wrong conclusion on that poster and we can squash that.
with regards to my cynicism and your lack of naivety, the fact is, if no credible third party evolves, nothing changes and the two parties simply converge when the wind blows, just like now with the wall street mess. it is no solution for a supposedly free society. i will keep voting this way until things change. and like i said, i will read up on the CAC.
Scott,
you keep pushing me to defend obama. that is not what i am here for. if however you want me to tell you why mccain is worse, i can. he is almost wrong on every issue excepting free trade. we can get into more details if you wish
No Sam, I’m not trying to get you to defend Obama. No need to be defensive. My point is that I vote-me personally-on foreign policy. On foreign policy, McCain and Obama are almost identical for the issues of the future, BUT when it comes time for the next President to use force (and every President sends men and women into harm’s way, and we are at war so it is inevitable on day #1)…McCain has the lesser chance of getting Deer Fever, Buck Fever, or cold feet. I think he’s the only candidate prepared to kill other human beings, and sadly that is something very necessary for the next President.
Scott, i see no evidence in obama’s background to suggest he would hesitate to go to war. every president has fought at least a minor war, and that won’t change. i am more concerned about a president who seems to ache for war, and that is mccain.
Scott wrote:
SamIsHereToSquashHisLies wrote:
Where is the proof of this?! McCain has often referenced how war is hell; which goes back to Scott’s placement of value on not only military service but firsthand war experience, when it comes to the presidency (during a time of war); btw, no one ever placed emphasis on military experience as a requirement for the presidency- you set up that strawman, all on your own. You can even go back to NewConservative’s conclusion to his post:
Comment #26:
Maybe because of defenses like this in the next paragraph:
Scott didn’t denigrate community organizers either. The “slam” in referencing it, is in regards to Obama citing it to pad up his paper-thin resume to denote “executive experience”; all the while McCain’s experience is minimized.
Scott makes an excellent contrast between their life experiences. McCain’s been tested in life-and-death situations. Obama has not. That counts for something; especially when you consider how it’s tested and shaped McCain’s character.
Comment #37:
How about in the next paragraph:
OMG! (no, not the fake commenter, just interjecting) An ad hominem and a fallacy in logic and reasoning!
You’re an Obama supporter.
Are you going to threaten to punch the screen again, or will you really do it this time (reference: comment #57)
Comment #47:
Any attempt at getting Republican voters to go third party is a vote for Obama. See? You are an Obama supporter. Deal with it (or punch your screen).
Sam #11:
MataHarley #34:
Mike’s America #36:
Sam #41:
Mata #52
America’s at war already.
As to an Iraq debate…I welcome it. Check Flopping Aces tomorrow morning. I’ll start a vague thread asking, “After eight years of Bush, is America safer”
See you tomorrow
(bring friends)
UPDATE:
Sam, I’ve drafted the thread and saved it until tomorrow. I’ll put it up around 7am est. Feel free to pop in when you can. I eagerly look forward to the discussion.
Can’t believe I forgot to add my link to this Post. It’s http://www.thenewconservatives.blogspot.com/
more facts on Obama’s Experience
143 Days
>
> You couldn’t get a job at McDonalds and become district manager after 143
> days of experience.
>
> You couldn’t become chief of surgery after 143 days of experience of being
> a surgeon.
>
> You couldn’t get a job as a teacher and be the superintendent after 143
> days of experience.
>
> You couldn’t join the military and become a colonel after 143 days of
> experience.
>
> You couldn’t get a job as a reporter and become the nightly news anchor
> after 143 days of experience.
>
> But
>
> ‘From the time Barack Obama was sworn in as a United State Senator, to the
> time he announced he was forming a Presidential exploratory committee, he
> logged 143 days of experience in the Senate. That’s how many days the
> Senate was actually in session and working.
>
> After 143 days of work experience, Obama believed he was ready to be
> Commander In Chief, Leader of the Free World … 143 days.
>
> We all have to start somewhere. The Senate is a good start, but after 143
> days, that’s all it is – a start.
>
> AND, strangely, a large sector of the American public is okay with this
> and campaigning for him. We wouldn’t accept this in our own line of work,
> yet some are okay with this for the President of the United States of
> America?
>
> Come on folks, we are not voting for the next American Idol!
>
re Warren Bonesteel’s post
> In a military environment, you are subject to the authority of others, as others are subject to
> your own. You advance in rank based almost entirely on performance and your ability to work in
> teamwork based environment. …
Yes, and in a military environment, prisoners of war generally advance in rank if the time comes that they would be up for promotion. Why didn’t John McCain advance to Commander while he was a POW? Collaborating with the enemy? As the son of an admiral, he would likely have been one of the first in line to advance.
@Anonymous Coward:
Hmmmm….
That’s coming awfully close to calling John McCain a traitor.
Any evidence to support your outlandish assertion?
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