[...] Contrasting Sarah Palin’s experience with Obama’s, part 2 Posted 03 Sep 2008 in 2008 election, Barack Obama, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin /**/ .nrelate_flyout {display:block; right: -400px; bottom: 40px; width:360px;} #nrelate_flyout_open{display:block; right: -80px;bottom: 40px;} #nrelate_flyout_close{background: #fff url(http://fullmetalpatriotblog.com/wp-content/plugins/nrelate-flyout/images/close_window.gif) no-repeat 0 0} /* 0) { begin = document.cookie.indexOf(NameOfCookie+"="); if (begin != -1) { begin += NameOfCookie.length+1; end = document.cookie.indexOf(";", begin); if (end == -1) end = document.cookie.length; return unescape(document.cookie.substring(begin, end)); } } return "false"; } function nr_fo_set_closed_cookie(value,domain) { var NameOfCookie="nr_fo_closed"; var ExpireDate = new Date (); // Expiration date set to 2 hours. Must give at least 2 hours until view gets incremented for this url per user. ExpireDate.setTime(ExpireDate.getTime() + (7*24*60*60*1000)); document.cookie = NameOfCookie + "=" + value + "; expires=" + ExpireDate.toGMTString()+"; path=/" + "; domain="+domain ; } value=nr_fo_get_closed_cookie(); if(value=="false") nr_fo_closed=false; else nr_fo_closed=true; var nr_fo_hidden = true; jQuery(function($){$(window).scroll(function() {var lastScreen;lastScreen = getScrollY() + $(window).height() < ($("#nr_fo_bot_of_post").offset().top) ? false : true;if (lastScreen && !nr_fo_closed && getScrollY()!=0 && nRelate.flyout_show) {$(".nrelate_flyout").stop().animate({"right":"0px"});nr_fo_hidden = false}else if (nr_fo_closed && lastScreen && getScrollY()!=0 && nRelate.flyout_show) {$("#nrelate_flyout_open").stop().animate({"right":"0px"});nr_fo_hidden=false;}else if (!nr_fo_hidden && !nr_fo_closed) {$(".nrelate_flyout").stop().animate({"right":"-400px"});nr_fo_hidden = true;}else if (!nr_fo_hidden && nr_fo_closed) {$("#nrelate_flyout_open").stop().animate({"right":"-80px"});nr_fo_hidden = true;}});$("#nrelate_flyout_close").live("click",function() { $(".nrelate_flyout").stop().animate({"right":"-400px"}); $("#nrelate_flyout_open").stop().animate({"right":"0px"}); nr_fo_closed = true; nr_fo_hidden = false; nr_fo_set_closed_cookie(true,"fullmetalpatriotblog.com");});$("#nrelate_flyout_open").live("click",function() { $("#nrelate_flyout_open").stop().animate({"right":"-80px"}); $(".nrelate_flyout").stop().animate({"right":"0px"});nr_fo_closed = false; nr_fo_hidden = false; nr_fo_set_closed_cookie(false,"fullmetalpatriotblog.com");});}); var entity_decoded_nr_url = jQuery('').html("http://api.nrelate.com/fow_wp/0.50.1/?tag=nrelate_flyout&keywords=Contrasting+Sarah+Palin%26%238217%3Bs+experience+with+Obama%26%238217%3Bs%2C+part+2&domain=fullmetalpatriotblog.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffullmetalpatriotblog.com%2F2008%2F09%2Fcontrasting-sarah-palins-experience-with-obamas-part-2%2F&nr_div_number=1&quot .text(); nRelate.getNrelatePosts(entity_decoded_nr_url); /*]]>*/ Newt Gingrich brings the heat, comparing resumes between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama. (h/t: Flopping Aces) [...]

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If Obama did anything noteworthy, ya wouldn’t have to look it up.

Well, he did win a Grammy for recording “Dreams for My Father” (sic from Congressional record 2/10/2006 S1057) I find the mistake on the title ironic.

There was stiff competition in that category for the spoken word.
Barack Obama prevailed. But others in the finals included Garrison
Keillor, Al Franken, Sean Penn, and George Carlin. Who came out on top?
The junior Senator from Illinois, Barack Obama.

Some stiff competition there. The only America-hating leftist missing is that slob Moore.

With this distinguished record, many people will want to continue to
follow the career of my junior colleague, Senator Barack Obama.

Haha, hee-hee, owww.. My keyboard is filled with coffee now.

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I love these kinds of debates

I’m back in town. Now it’s my turn. My apologies to Scott’s fan club but it is time to take away what you think is his victory. Let’s start with the obvious and make our way down the list.
1)“Read up. UBL escaped Tora Bora in Nov/Dec 01 before the CIA could even get people in there.”

~Gary Brentsen, disagrees with you. According to Gary Berntsen, the key CIA field commander on the ground near Tora Bora at the time, he in vain requested 800 American army rangers to prevent bin Laden’s escape. Gen. Tommy Franks, who argued U.S. troops were not necessary because an Afghan militia had been hired to fight in their place, denied the request.

-Actually, I think if you’ll look in Bernsten’s book, JAWBREAKER, on pages 239-240 you’ll see that on Nov11 the CIA got the first reports of UBL escaping via Tora Bora into Pakistan. Additionally, in the book, Al Queda’s Great Escape, on pg117 you’ll see that UBL made his way out into Pakistan around Nov13. The request for Rangers and more troops didn’t come until weeks later. Moreover, even Bernsten admits in his book that such additional forces can’t guarantee to have gotten UBL or even to have stopped more AQ from escaping. This is logical since just a few months later the US sent thousands of troops to try and do exactly what Bernsten requested doing with just 800 (this was called Operation Anaconda). Most importantly, focusing on UBL and in any way describing Tora Bora operations as a failure is simply wrong. American forces decimated Al Queda there as they did in Operation Anaconda later, but neither operation-due completely to the terrain, was able to prevent AQ from escaping into Pakistan. I have at least 4 other books I could reference, but the fact is UBL escaped long before the US could get to Tora Bora and stop him. It remains, if one is to blame GWB for “letting” UBL escape, then it’s like blaming FDR for letting Von Rundstadt escape Falaise, or Lincoln for letting Lee escape numerous times, or so many other examples. You yourself make this point by showing that it was Gen Franks-not Pres Bush-who rejected addl forces (which likely wouldn’t have made a big difference since UBL was already gone).

2)“Lincoln’s prisoner of war camps were literally a hundred thousand times worse”

~Of course they were, it was the 1800’s!!! We have progressed both technologically and sociologically. Looking shallow into the past, we can find profound barbarism.

-I disagree because even by 1800’s standards (if that’s the standard by which you choose to measure) Lincoln’s POW camps were atrocious. Camp Douglass was among the worst. Gitmo (for example) has higher standards than most prisons in the U.S.

3)“The same could be said about Pres Bush Sr. and Clinton as when viewed as a chronology, fighting and acts of war from the 1991 war with Iraq never ended”

~ Really…so are you comparing the mini-war and the microwave fight during the Bush Sr. and Clinton presidencies to the current war in Iraq? There are thousands of US dead and many more wounded I don’t think that’s the same.

I’m saying the war never ended if you look at a timeline (got a date for when the fighting stopped and when Iraq complied with the UN?), and citing casualties I’d point to the decline in Iraqi casualties caused by the US because of the invasion. Prior to it, the UNICEF claimed that millions of Iraqis died by the US bombings and blockade. Since the invasion actual Iraqi deaths have been about 100k over 5years, and most of those were AQ suicide bombers targeting Iraqis to set off sectarian violence.

4)“No one-not even Alexander the Great-has ever finished a war in Afghanistan”

~This does not merit a response. So we move-on.

cool

5) “All Presidents do this-Lincoln, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, LBJ, even Clinton”

~I’m familiar with this argument, but there is a reason why it became a controversy. One reason is that they put grossly inadequate (putting it mildly) people in the positions. Another reason may be the scale, but the biggest reason was that they said it was performance-based firings. A professional’s most valuable asset is his/her reputation.

Please show some evidence that GWB’s admin has done this more than any other.

6) ”this has been a practice of the US govt since the Revolution”

~I think the issue is scale. We have ramped-up those activities in comparison to recent years (Clinton/Bush Sr. years).

-Me, I’d say the Revolution, the Civil War, World War I, World War II, and Vietnam were bigger in scale.

7) “Actually, Bush saved New Orleans by forcing the Mayor and Gov (both Dems) to get on his plane and work it out.”

~LOL! That is very funny. President Bush saved New Orleans with a photo op. No, my friend first responders, state government, local government, and plain citizens acted heroically while the response was slow on the federal level. “Brownee” himself said that the response was unacceptable. The news was inundated with Katrina related FEMA blunders. I’m not going to beat this dead horse (your from Ohio not Louisiana).

I’m not denying that the admin did poorly, but the locals and the state govt failed, and continued to fail, and only at President Bush’s leadership did he take over, send in a general and pickup the slack were the locals and state govts continued to fail. As evidence of this I ask, what would have happened if Pres Bush had not stepped in, and made corrections? If Bush continued to fail as the State and local govts did, then the situation would have been worse, but it was Bush and the Fed who corrected it.

“Besides, the media was allowed to do recounts afterwards and all found Bush won. Go to factcheck”

~I went to factcheck my cherry-picking friend. It seems that the media consensus was that Gore would have won if all counties (not just the one’s in dispute) were recounted. Also, you missed the point (cooked felons list & etc.).

No. The cherry-picking is on your part since your point relies on possibility/minority opinion, not the majority of opinion:
“Nobody can say for sure who might have won. A full, official recount of all votes statewide could have gone either way, but one was never conducted.
According to a massive months-long study commissioned by eight news organizations in 2001, George W. Bush probably still would have won even if the U.S. Supreme Court had allowed a limited statewide recount to go forward as ordered by Florida’s highest court.

Bush also probably would have won had the state conducted the limited recount of only four heavily Democratic counties that Al Gore asked for, the study found.”
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/when_the_votes_were_recounted_in_florida.html

9) “that stems from the Democrats’ and the left’s disinformation about the war in Iraq…”

~Please read my statements. We had massive world support post-911 and we lost it.

-Nope. Not true. Pakistan had to be threatened to support the U.S. In Egypt and Syria Arab mobs attacked US embassies and tried to burn them. In Palestine there was dancing in the streets with joy as the US was being attacked. In the UK the govt almost fell. In Pakistan, once they agreed to cooperate with the US, the govt almost collapsed and hundreds of thousands protested and were then jailed. In France, the famous article “We are all Americans” actually described how the US had it coming, and it was about time the US was attacked. In NYC tens of thousands marched in protest to the US attack on Afghanistan. In DC, Ted Kennedy led a growing caucus of Democrats who cried out demanding the Taliban be negotiated with and given more time to hand over UBL rather than attack. There was a great deal of skin deep support to be certain, but the myth of worldwide unity against terrorism was not there. Had it been, the comment from Pres Bush that you are either with the nations that fight terror or you are against them…that line wouldn’t have been problematic at all.

10) “LOL, this [rampant cronyism] is a new thing or exclusive to GWB?! C’mon. You can’t possibly be that ignorant.”

~Once again the issue is scale. I am glad that you brought up Clinton and Lincoln though. Clinton suffered character assassination for appointing people in a bi-partisan way. Heck he was investigated by some of the people he appointed. Lincoln picked a Vice President that disagreed with his views (a lot of what he worked for was hindered). Oh, by the way I’m not ignorant.

Argumentative. Unless you can provide a comparable list of Bush Admin cronies vs Clinton, Lincoln, etc then you’re just making claims. The fact is that political appointees are almost always friends, supporters, etc., and the Bush Admin isn’t the peak of this phenomenon, but rather on par with it.

11)”this [the decimation of the Labor Department] was a bad thing?

~Yes, it was.

Why?

12) I will try catching some of the things I didn’t respond to in broad statements below.

Lincoln’s challenges in the 1800’s are not comparable to Bush’s blunders in the 21st century. Read my earlier statement (Bush inherited the greatest nation built on the contributions of Lincoln and other great Americans). Of course it was more repressive, it was 1800’s and it was a Civil War (just image the enemy within that terrorism is multiplied by a million). Unlike Bush, Lincoln didn’t even want to go to war (that was the root cause of some of his early missteps). Also, Robert E. Lee was one of the greatest military minds of his time.

-“ just image the enemy within that terrorism is multiplied by a million” My point exactly. Btw, Bush didn’t WANT to go to war. He avoided it for years. If he wanted to go to war he could have said the USS Cole was attacked by UBL and Iraq working together. Instead he waited years, tried everything reasonably possible, and couldn’t remove the threat posed by Saddam without direct invasion.

The things that I listed are not conspiracy theories. The idea of the “liberal media” is a conspiracy theory. The media is a massive entity consisting of progressives, conservatives, and independents (including fake independents).

I agree re the myth of a liberal media (for the most part), but the effect of opposing the war on the Taliban (from 2000 onwards) as well as the opposition to success in the Iraq War before it had even taken place directly brought about the very situation such opposition supposedly sought to prevent. By opposing the invasion millions of people convinced Saddam that the US didn’t have the support for war, and that GWB was just bluffing. Saddam and all of his advisors admitted that he didn’t take the threat seriously until it was too late. Why didn’t he take it seriously?

Now back to the original thread (I’m not going to reply to anything else for now). Regardless of rumors about Obama in State Legislature (there are plenty of rumors about McCain), his official record in the US Senate remains as I listed above. (Actually, there might be things that I need to add to the list) So the core argument, Obama did nothing, is invalid. This debate should now be over.

If Obama did anything noteworthy, ya wouldn’t have to look it up.

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I’m back in town. Now it’s my turn. My apologies to Scott’s fan club but it is time to take away what you think is his victory. Let’s start with the obvious and make our way down the list.
1)“Read up. UBL escaped Tora Bora in Nov/Dec 01 before the CIA could even get people in there.”

~Gary Brentsen, disagrees with you. According to Gary Berntsen, the key CIA field commander on the ground near Tora Bora at the time, he in vain requested 800 American army rangers to prevent bin Laden’s escape. Gen. Tommy Franks, who argued U.S. troops were not necessary because an Afghan militia had been hired to fight in their place, denied the request.

2)“Lincoln’s prisoner of war camps were literally a hundred thousand times worse”

~Of course they were, it was the 1800’s!!! We have progressed both technologically and sociologically. Looking shallow into the past, we can find profound barbarism.

3)“The same could be said about Pres Bush Sr. and Clinton as when viewed as a chronology, fighting and acts of war from the 1991 war with Iraq never ended”

~ Really…so are you comparing the mini-war and the microwave fight during the Bush Sr. and Clinton presidencies to the current war in Iraq? There are thousands of US dead and many more wounded I don’t think that’s the same.

4)“No one-not even Alexander the Great-has ever finished a war in Afghanistan”

~This does not merit a response. So we move-on.

5) “All Presidents do this-Lincoln, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, LBJ, even Clinton”

~I’m familiar with this argument, but there is a reason why it became a controversy. One reason is that they put grossly inadequate (putting it mildly) people in the positions. Another reason may be the scale, but the biggest reason was that they said it was performance-based firings. A professional’s most valuable asset is his/her reputation.

6) ”this has been a practice of the US govt since the Revolution”

~I think the issue is scale. We have ramped-up those activities in comparison to recent years (Clinton/Bush Sr. years).

7) “Actually, Bush saved New Orleans by forcing the Mayor and Gov (both Dems) to get on his plane and work it out.”

~LOL! That is very funny. President Bush saved New Orleans with a photo op. No, my friend first responders, state government, local government, and plain citizens acted heroically while the response was slow on the federal level. “Brownee” himself said that the response was unacceptable. The news was inundated with Katrina related FEMA blunders. I’m not going to beat this dead horse (your from Ohio not Louisiana).

“Besides, the media was allowed to do recounts afterwards and all found Bush won. Go to factcheck”

~I went to factcheck my cherry-picking friend. It seems that the media consensus was that Gore would have won if all counties (not just the one’s in dispute) were recounted. Also, you missed the point (cooked felons list & etc.).

9) “that stems from the Democrats’ and the left’s disinformation about the war in Iraq…”

~Please read my statements. We had massive world support post-911 and we lost it.

10) “LOL, this [rampant cronyism] is a new thing or exclusive to GWB?! C’mon. You can’t possibly be that ignorant.”

~Once again the issue is scale. I am glad that you brought up Clinton and Lincoln though. Clinton suffered character assassination for appointing people in a bi-partisan way. Heck he was investigated by some of the people he appointed. Lincoln picked a Vice President that disagreed with his views (a lot of what he worked for was hindered). Oh, by the way I’m not ignorant.

11)”this [the decimation of the Labor Department] was a bad thing?

~Yes, it was.

12) I will try catching some of the things I didn’t respond to in broad statements below.

Lincoln’s challenges in the 1800’s are not comparable to Bush’s blunders in the 21st century. Read my earlier statement (Bush inherited the greatest nation built on the contributions of Lincoln and other great Americans). Of course it was more repressive, it was 1800’s and it was a Civil War (just image the enemy within that terrorism is multiplied by a million). Unlike Bush, Lincoln didn’t even want to go to war (that was the root cause of some of his early missteps). Also, Robert E. Lee was one of the greatest military minds of his time.

The things that I listed are not conspiracy theories. The idea of the “liberal media” is a conspiracy theory. The media is a massive entity consisting of progressives, conservatives, and independents (including fake independents).

Now back to the original thread (I’m not going to reply to anything else for now). Regardless of rumors about Obama in State Legislature (there are plenty of rumors about McCain), his official record in the US Senate remains as I listed above. (Actually, there might be things that I need to add to the list) So the core argument, Obama did nothing, is invalid. This debate should now be over.

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Critical Thinking..

You’ve brightened this dark room. Unfortunately, some think that the light is coming from their little candle they’re each holding. Sad but true, they seem to undermined the power of enlightenment and academic achievements. Should it be fair to compare a small town, where people sip hot cocoa to Chicago where crime and gangs make the news all the time? Enough said.

You said it all Critical thinking, and you said it well…. May the messenger of God received the divine message to chose what’s best for her kids who are at a critical age and it’s precisely then when they need their mother around the most. After all, she had them, not the nannies. And for the rest of you who are trying hard to let some of the candle holders see that their weakening flame isn’t shinning as bright as they think, thank you for your patience and consideration, but sometimes it takes time to realize that a candle isn’t the same as a light bulb…. Peace

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While the MSM hound Palin for the firing of a State Trooper who was unfit for the job, no one bothers to investigate any of O’Bunko’s blatantly criminal activity…
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OGRiMWFhNWY4MTgzMjI3NjEzNGQwMWFiMTlhYmRhN2Y=
http://sigmundcarlandalfred.wordpress.com/2008/08/27/obama-directed-34-million-earmark-for-bidens-son/

…or to question him on the sources of his campaign funds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VybqL4OToxA

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MAZWELL’S SILVER HAMMER…

“Palin is perhaps the most inexperienced Vice Presidential nominee in the history of the United States.” — scribbler (sticking to it’s talking point “script”)

Nice try, scribbler, but making things up is about all you Lefties are good at.

“Obama served eight years in Illinois legislature and one term in U.S. Senate” — scribbler

…during which time he enriched himself and his cronies at the expense of his constituents, many of whom suffered greatly because of callousness.
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/08/mr-obamas-neighborhood.html
http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2008/03/diagnosis-barac.html

Oh, and did I mention that he is a pathological liar (like you)?

Obama’s “experience” is exclusively in doing evil, and he’s all too proficient at it. Now, if that’s the kind of “experience” you want, then you need to move to Russia. We do NOT want to move Russia here.

“Silence in the face of evil is always on the side of the aggressor.” – Elie Wiesel
http://frontpagemag.com/blog/Read.aspx?guid=700ea7db-0482-4f02-9572-34c4104d77d1

All his friends are about as bad as they could be.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=800
http://www.theobamafile.com/

The man IS evil, …and you support him. Nuff said ’bout the two of you.

…bring it down on their pointy little heads, and …..

VOTE McCAIN PALIN

because there is no other option.

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Actually, Scott, Abe Lincoln is one of Sarah Palin’s favorite Presidential figures. It was quite funny to hear Doris Kearns Goodwin battle a Charlie Rose panel that was spewing all the scandals as news. Goodwin, evidently, had met Palin at a Governor’s convention and sat next to her during the meals. Since Goodwin is a Lincoln maniac herself, she has quite the kindly heart to Palin… unusual for her stripe.

Then again, Goodwin comes under fire from all sides for the plaguerism charges. But did find that detail interesting. Had to rub my eyes in disbelief… Goodwin defending Palin?? Called her “an extraordinary woman”.

As for Script… more like “post Script”…. i.e an afterthought.

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Mata, it only took a few minutes. Really, what got me was the thought of viewing Lincoln in the same light as GWB is put under, and GWB w the free pass given to Lincoln on so many things. It’s an interesting discussion, and I thought about starting a seperate thread. Really,

Bush gets blamed for Tora Bora, but Lincoln gets a pass after Antietam, Gettysburg, and more?
Bush gets blamed for Abu Ghraib etc., but Lincoln gets a pass for Camp Douglas
Bush gets blamed for cronyism as if Presidents are supposed to keep the same people that the last guy had even if he’s from a totally different and failed party?
Bush gets blamed for habeas corpus, but Lincoln gets a free pass
Bush gets blamed for sitting for a few minutes during 911 attacks, but Lincoln gets a free pass for not supplying Ft Sumter during the seige before the attack?
Bush gets blamed for Katrina, but we’re supposed to ignore that there were devastating natural disasters without ANY support from Lincoln during his two terms?
Bush gets blamed for a loss of international respect (which wasn’t there to begin with), but Lincoln gets a free pass for Britain’s almost declaring war on the US (while actively supplying the enemy), France virtually ending trade w the US, and Germany…oh gawd!

No matter what GWB has done, Lincoln did it worse. The only thing Lincoln did better was he freed the slaves (ignoring the fact that Congress really did that), and he was a fantastic speaker (where as GWB is painful to watch let alone listen to imo).

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Boy are you patient, Scott. With such an obvious lost cause, I wouldn’t have wasted my time! LOL

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