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	<title>Comments on: Obama spending, and lessons from Venezuela</title>
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		<title>By: MataHarley</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2008/06/10/obama-spending-and-lessons-from-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-84616</link>
		<dc:creator>MataHarley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=5552#comment-84616</guid>
		<description>bbartlog, what I meant by &quot;the money supply is dwindling, and the consumption is rising&quot; is that Venezuela&#039;s oil production output (the money supply) is dropping.  Their consumption of oil via gas and all other petroleum based products is still rising.  That is their status right now.

The inflation occurred, as you said, when the money flooded the market.  Chavez continues to release govt funds into the market (i.e. his raise in minimal wage) in an effort to cure the inflation.

As to comparing the two leaders... that is why this is titled &quot;lessons from Venezuela&quot;.  They are a demonstration of what we may be,  embarking unchecked on the socialist path.

Obama is, at the moment,  to the right of Chavez.  Were he as overt as Chavez, he wouldn&#039;t even get the nomination.  You can&#039;t move the nation that far left quite that fast.  It&#039;s a slow indoctrination.  Socialism is a milder form of Communism, and begat from capitalism.  It is the start of a new society -  or the intermediate state between capitalism and communism in Marxist-Leninist theory - while Communism is the most advanced stage.

However BHO&#039;s demonstrated penchant for socialist programs as cures for societal and financial ills is very troubling.  He is undeniably starting this nation towards that new socialist society mentality.  Once that is embedded, dependent upon their govt for most or all aspects of their lives, it is hard to reverse the trend.   And it takes a while before the utopia&#039;s flaws leer their ugly heads.

I&#039;m curious where you get the percentage figures on total federalization from Obama&#039;s plans.  Love to see the source.  Wandering thru his individual issues on his campaign page, there&#039;s considerably more federal programs, plus federally funded programs and slush funds than ever was created under Bush.  I have yet to see a final tally of the perfect storm - ala  all Obama wishes come to fruition.  His energy ideas alone are spendy, yet offer no solution to oil supply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>bbartlog, what I meant by &#8220;the money supply is dwindling, and the consumption is rising&#8221; is that Venezuela&#8217;s oil production output (the money supply) is dropping.  Their consumption of oil via gas and all other petroleum based products is still rising.  That is their status right now.</p>
<p>The inflation occurred, as you said, when the money flooded the market.  Chavez continues to release govt funds into the market (i.e. his raise in minimal wage) in an effort to cure the inflation.</p>
<p>As to comparing the two leaders&#8230; that is why this is titled &#8220;lessons from Venezuela&#8221;.  They are a demonstration of what we may be,  embarking unchecked on the socialist path.</p>
<p>Obama is, at the moment,  to the right of Chavez.  Were he as overt as Chavez, he wouldn&#8217;t even get the nomination.  You can&#8217;t move the nation that far left quite that fast.  It&#8217;s a slow indoctrination.  Socialism is a milder form of Communism, and begat from capitalism.  It is the start of a new society &#8211;  or the intermediate state between capitalism and communism in Marxist-Leninist theory &#8211; while Communism is the most advanced stage.</p>
<p>However BHO&#8217;s demonstrated penchant for socialist programs as cures for societal and financial ills is very troubling.  He is undeniably starting this nation towards that new socialist society mentality.  Once that is embedded, dependent upon their govt for most or all aspects of their lives, it is hard to reverse the trend.   And it takes a while before the utopia&#8217;s flaws leer their ugly heads.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious where you get the percentage figures on total federalization from Obama&#8217;s plans.  Love to see the source.  Wandering thru his individual issues on his campaign page, there&#8217;s considerably more federal programs, plus federally funded programs and slush funds than ever was created under Bush.  I have yet to see a final tally of the perfect storm &#8211; ala  all Obama wishes come to fruition.  His energy ideas alone are spendy, yet offer no solution to oil supply.</p>
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		<title>By: bbartlog</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2008/06/10/obama-spending-and-lessons-from-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-84543</link>
		<dc:creator>bbartlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=5552#comment-84543</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a staggering testament to the unworkability of socialism that Chavez has tanked the Venezuelan economy in the middle of an oil boom.

&lt;i&gt;You just can’t absorb that huge influx of money properly,” Karl said. “You get problems with your prices, you get problems of supply.&lt;/i&gt;

This is probably true for third world countries, but under first world capitalism the money gets absorbed by the capital markets. Not that there aren&#039;t distortions, but places like Norway aren&#039;t seeing 30% year on year inflation.

&lt;i&gt;Much easier to sit back and “take”. So the money supply is dwindling, and the consumption is rising.&lt;/i&gt;

Backwards. The money supply rises (hence the inflation) but less actual consumption of goods takes place. Maybe you were trying to say something else here though...

As for comparing Obama and Chavez, Chavez is obviously a much more extreme (and also stupider) socialist. All of Obama&#039;s spending put together will still only bump the Federal share of the economy by a percentage point or two (from 20 to 21 or 22% or something). Of course this is still a bad thing, but when you consider that it went from 18.5% to 20% under Bush you can see that comparing that to the Venezuela situation is a stretch. Note that the figure was as high as 23% early in the Reagan years. 
If the only downside to Obama were this wasting of money on various programs, I wouldn&#039;t be too worried. Even with our poor budget discipline this is still a very wealthy country. The bigger risk in my opinion is on the regulatory side - things like carbon cap and trade, windfall profit taxation, or mandatory self-insurance (as a healthcare measure). That kind of stuff can cause a lot more damage than just spending public money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>It&#8217;s a staggering testament to the unworkability of socialism that Chavez has tanked the Venezuelan economy in the middle of an oil boom.</p>
<p><i>You just can’t absorb that huge influx of money properly,” Karl said. “You get problems with your prices, you get problems of supply.</i></p>
<p>This is probably true for third world countries, but under first world capitalism the money gets absorbed by the capital markets. Not that there aren&#8217;t distortions, but places like Norway aren&#8217;t seeing 30% year on year inflation.</p>
<p><i>Much easier to sit back and “take”. So the money supply is dwindling, and the consumption is rising.</i></p>
<p>Backwards. The money supply rises (hence the inflation) but less actual consumption of goods takes place. Maybe you were trying to say something else here though&#8230;</p>
<p>As for comparing Obama and Chavez, Chavez is obviously a much more extreme (and also stupider) socialist. All of Obama&#8217;s spending put together will still only bump the Federal share of the economy by a percentage point or two (from 20 to 21 or 22% or something). Of course this is still a bad thing, but when you consider that it went from 18.5% to 20% under Bush you can see that comparing that to the Venezuela situation is a stretch. Note that the figure was as high as 23% early in the Reagan years.<br />
If the only downside to Obama were this wasting of money on various programs, I wouldn&#8217;t be too worried. Even with our poor budget discipline this is still a very wealthy country. The bigger risk in my opinion is on the regulatory side &#8211; things like carbon cap and trade, windfall profit taxation, or mandatory self-insurance (as a healthcare measure). That kind of stuff can cause a lot more damage than just spending public money.</p>
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		<title>By: deepfiresides</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2008/06/10/obama-spending-and-lessons-from-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-84489</link>
		<dc:creator>deepfiresides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.floppingaces.net/?p=5552#comment-84489</guid>
		<description>Well, I found you by a circuitous route -- the wheat from the chaff kind of a way.  I think you are presscorps post media?  I&#039;m glad to meet you.  Actually, thank heavens I have.  I miss the days I used to work for a newspaper.  You might know my webfriend Larry at NQ -- I think he&#039;s like you -- that was all that whitey stuff? He was writing about.  All my research carefully cuddled inside my posts &amp; sources too.  Very scary how the target marketing has been done, overall -- I&#039;ve  been using wp blog &amp; can see behind  something gets hooked to me if I use only their names  I want to give it to you?  but I will space out the letters and numbers... there used to be these things called g m o d u l e s coming round then this other thing started.  I don&#039;t say their names anymore.  I hope you are the n e t r o o t s?  I sure hope so.  Know I am a true patriot of the highest order of ethics you can imagine and I&#039;m an American. And this election is scaring me so much you don&#039;t know. I&#039;ve always been a dem since maybe 84? but now I have to be repub because...this whole thing is too weird
actually I think McCain sounds like a very, very honest guy.  It&#039;s a guy called Thad Cochran who has all the bad ties to corporate sorts of things he is involved with this guy L e s s i g over at a place called sunlight (foundation) here is the wiki look under commitees part on Corky above</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>Well, I found you by a circuitous route &#8212; the wheat from the chaff kind of a way.  I think you are presscorps post media?  I&#8217;m glad to meet you.  Actually, thank heavens I have.  I miss the days I used to work for a newspaper.  You might know my webfriend Larry at NQ &#8212; I think he&#8217;s like you &#8212; that was all that whitey stuff? He was writing about.  All my research carefully cuddled inside my posts &amp; sources too.  Very scary how the target marketing has been done, overall &#8212; I&#8217;ve  been using wp blog &amp; can see behind  something gets hooked to me if I use only their names  I want to give it to you?  but I will space out the letters and numbers&#8230; there used to be these things called g m o d u l e s coming round then this other thing started.  I don&#8217;t say their names anymore.  I hope you are the n e t r o o t s?  I sure hope so.  Know I am a true patriot of the highest order of ethics you can imagine and I&#8217;m an American. And this election is scaring me so much you don&#8217;t know. I&#8217;ve always been a dem since maybe 84? but now I have to be repub because&#8230;this whole thing is too weird<br />
actually I think McCain sounds like a very, very honest guy.  It&#8217;s a guy called Thad Cochran who has all the bad ties to corporate sorts of things he is involved with this guy L e s s i g over at a place called sunlight (foundation) here is the wiki look under commitees part on Corky above</p>
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		<title>By: Uddercha0s</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2008/06/10/obama-spending-and-lessons-from-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-84449</link>
		<dc:creator>Uddercha0s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 06:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Oil revenues to the state has tripled since 2004 to $63.9 bil, and account for 50% of the nation’s budget.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sounds like windfall profits to me. 

The Messiah also wants to &lt;a href=&quot;http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/09/news/economy/obama_economy_changetour/index.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;give economy $50 billion boost&lt;/a&gt; with a second round of tax rebates, expand and extend unemployment benefits and &quot;Such relief can&#039;t wait until the next president takes office.&quot;

I especially liked this quote from the article
&lt;blockquote&gt;Obama said that next week he will lay out his proposals for making the &quot;workforce more competitive by reforming our education system.&quot; &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><blockquote><p>Oil revenues to the state has tripled since 2004 to $63.9 bil, and account for 50% of the nation’s budget.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sounds like windfall profits to me. </p>
<p>The Messiah also wants to <a href="http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/09/news/economy/obama_economy_changetour/index.htm" rel="nofollow">give economy $50 billion boost</a> with a second round of tax rebates, expand and extend unemployment benefits and &#8220;Such relief can&#8217;t wait until the next president takes office.&#8221;</p>
<p>I especially liked this quote from the article</p>
<blockquote><p>Obama said that next week he will lay out his proposals for making the &#8220;workforce more competitive by reforming our education system.&#8221; </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Mike's America</title>
		<link>http://floppingaces.net/2008/06/10/obama-spending-and-lessons-from-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-84440</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike's America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 04:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sooner or later, socialism under Obama would turn out to be as massive a disaster as Venezuela is shaping up to be. And of course, the poor will be hardest hit by the downturn.

But that impact on the poor will be used by the Obamatons as a reason to enact even MORE socialist policies. They can sell fear and envy like no one else.

By the time the voters realize what has been happening it will be too late. Our economy, not to mention our spirit as a nation will be damaged for years to come.

I remember the Carter years and have no desire to relive them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<!-- google_ad_section_start --><p>Sooner or later, socialism under Obama would turn out to be as massive a disaster as Venezuela is shaping up to be. And of course, the poor will be hardest hit by the downturn.</p>
<p>But that impact on the poor will be used by the Obamatons as a reason to enact even MORE socialist policies. They can sell fear and envy like no one else.</p>
<p>By the time the voters realize what has been happening it will be too late. Our economy, not to mention our spirit as a nation will be damaged for years to come.</p>
<p>I remember the Carter years and have no desire to relive them.</p>
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