[...] have it so we all are even. We’ve seen how horrible the health care system is in Canada and Europe so why not follow in their [...]

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The critique of socialized medicine throughout this thread,
along with much of Mr. Goldberg’s post, involves anecdotal evidence. “I
knew somebody in Canada and listen to what happened to them” We can
play that game all day long. In fact, I have a personal story that
involves having a baby under socialized healthcare in Canada and having
a baby under the health insurance Chevron Chemical Company provided for
its factory workers, of which I was one. Hint- Chevron insurance didn’t
cover that estoreric medical procedure known as childbirth. Mike Volpe’s
story can be matched by Michael Moore’s story about the guy who had to
pick which fingers to get sewed back on. Bottomline: Anecdotal tit-for-tat gets us
nowhere.

Luva responded to angryflower with an ad hominem attack and an
anecdote. What isn’t there is attempt to address angryflower’s
observation that Senator Kennedey is not your typical American.
There is little dispute that we have the best health care system in the
world, if you can afford it. But that’s like saying Sudan has
excellent national nutrition, because they eat gourmet meals in the
Presidential palace. I make no suggestion of moral equivalency between
the United States and Sudan here, so put down that club. My analogy is
logical, not moral.

A more accurate way to compare our healthcare system with the rest of
the First World starts with a prima facie analysis and goes on from
there. We are the only First World nation without some form of
nationalized healthcare. Does it seem plausible on its face that we’re
the only ones who have it right and everyone else has it wrong?
If something so massive and importantwas such a disaster in Canada or Great Britain, don’t you think the electorate there would do something about it? Remember, we’re talking about democracies here. As much as the term socialism is conflated withtotalitarian communism, like that of the former Soviet Union, highlevels of socialism exist in many of the world’s non-American democracies.

Now let’s look at two core/elemental metrics of the quality of a nation’s healthcare system:
Infant Mortality (IM) and Longevity

IM (Source: CIA statistics -ttps://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html)

The US has the 180th highest IM rate of the countries monitored. Guess who is 181? South Korea. Guess who is 182? Cuba A newborn baby stands a better chance of living in Cuba than it does in the US.

Which countries have lower IMs than the US?

Canada

United Kingdom

Germany

Norway

France

Sweden

Longevity (M/F)
(Source: World Health Organization
/http://www.who.int/whosis/database/life_tables/life_tables.cfm)

US – 75/80

UK – 77/81

Canada – 78/83

People in the UK and Canada live longer than Americans, despite their abysmal healthcare systems

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“Waiting for months to be ‘assigned’ a doctor, waiting more months and traveling hundreds of miles to get a simple medical test,”

angryflower,

Are you seriously trying to convince us that there are no extended waiting periods in countries with socialized medicine?

Surely not.

A simple Google search will reveal a myriad of horror stories of people who have had to wait to get surgeries and other treatments.

When it comes to the “source” you question, I can provide you with many others if you would prefer. Of course, you will most likely delve into their backgrounds as well rather than examine the nature of what they are presenting.

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“angryflower is a retard.”

Gee, thanks. Why bother making my tone civil? I’m sorry about your friend.

Nobody said a word about the source, just anecdotes.

What is the wait time comparison to the US? What exactly is so much better about the US system where you are actually paying more per capita for health care? You talk about trial lawyers and tort reform but defend the for-profit sickness business?

“Waiting for months to be ‘assigned’ a doctor, waiting more months and traveling hundreds of miles to get a simple medical test,”

This is *baloney*. I can get these things this evening within walking distance in a small town.

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Don’t forget that in most medically socialized countries, Ted Kennedy’s age, weight, and alcohol consumption would have all played a part in his medical care decisions. Even here in the USA my mother was diagnosed with leukemia at the age of 65. Although she had 8 brothers and sisters, 2 that were deemed a match for bone marrow transplant, her insurance coverage (Blue Cross & Blue Shield) deemed the procedure too expensive to cover for her age!!

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People complain about the high cost of health care. I have two words to alleviate this problem: tort reform. It will never happen because the dems are in bed with trial lawyers. And it should be a rule that you don’t go to the emergency room for a sore throat and other aiklments that should be treated in a doctor’s office. Insurance companies have this rule but medicaid and medicare do not. Instead of national healthcare it would be cheaper to pay the insurance premiums for the people without insurance. That would really tick off the people who pay for their own. And what about all the health insurance companies in this country? Think of all the jobs that would be lost if they were outlawed or downsized. Not to mention the profit to investors. It’s a hell of a risk in order to insure people who either can’t or won’t insure themselves.

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chris, honey, all you have to do is look at most, not all, government employees and you will see failure. so many of them sleep at their desks, they read books and play computer games online on our dime. universal healthcare don’t work. but the people who are crying for it are buying the snake oil, they believe that they will be taken care of by the government. umm, nope. prisoners get better treatment heere than in canada, and everyone thinks it will be like that, it won’t. they are to niave to believe anything different.

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this is the same government that consistently cannot understand what the 2nd amendment means when it says “shall not be infringed”… i expect nothing less than total failure from them…

the last government program that worked well was the construction of the interstate highway system… and that is older than i am… if i had that great of a failure rate, i wouldnt be able to hold a job…

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A lot of doctors, and some hospitals, will treat people for free or at reduced rates. Some pharmaceuticals will give free medicine for those who can’t afford it.

Hospitals, by law, cannot refuse treatment based on one’s ability to pay.

Tom

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Angryflower is right. The people of Canada have great healthcare, as long as they don’t get sick. Waiting for months to be ‘assigned’ a doctor, waiting more months and traveling hundreds of miles to get a simple medical test, then waiting many more months to see if you qualify for treatment. Yep, that’s why people in Canada (with money) come to the U.S. for treatment, and people in the U.K. fly all over the world to get simple, but lifesaving medical treatment. Buy a live saving medicine in the U.K. on your own and be removed from the medical system in the U.K. One treatment out of the ‘system’ and you’re out of the system and on your own. I can see the EMS system (worked it for 8 years) in the U.S. holding patients in the back of an ambulance for hours so they don’t ‘hurt’ the government mandated ER’s treatment record.

Make the Socialized medical system ‘volunteer’ and let the left wing Communist, aka democrats, have all they want of it.

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