THE WAGE OF APPEASEMENT IS WAR…

…especially when it is with someone who talks and acts just like Hitler.

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Mata, with ever supposition on your part about what is going on in the Middle East it is very clear that you understand it on a very, very superficial level. So please leave the room while the big boys have a conversation.

… and iron your shirts? LOL Thank you, CentFla. You have managed to give us all a clear picture of your base mentality and testorone deficiency. All we must do is sit back, and watch you open mouth, change feet.

Condi talking to Palestine is not a POTUS talking to Palestine. That’s the prime point in all these posts… you don’t have a President sitting down unconditionally with the enemy.

You said “AQ was developed in the first place because Osama and Z hated the Saudi Government!”. You obviously know nothing of Zawahiri’s personal history with Egyptian Islamic Jihad. Even less of AQ’s history. And zip, nada, nothing of the global jihad movement’s intrarelationships with other Muslim jihad groups.

First point, Zawahiri and his EIJ didn’t come together with AQ until 1998 when he – with others – declared war on the US in the World Islamic Front Statement. He officially merged EIJ with AQ in the summer of 2001.

OBL started AQ in the late 80s, regrouping the Arab fighters from the Afghanistan-Russia war.

AQ doesn’t support or ally itself with Hamas? Below alone will reveal to you what you apparently do not know now. These are not my words, not a YouTube news blurb, not a CNN/FOX/MSNBC/Reuters/AP pundit. From, again, Zawahiri’s Open Forum, in his own words, which you… along with Flyboy Skye… don’t apparently choose to read.

The first is that I took a gradual approach with HAMAS, from advice to warning to general criticism, but when they signed the Makkah accord, frank criticism was a must. I took a gradual approach with them, but they didn’t heed the opinion of their brothers and continued in what they had plunged into, from their entering the elections in compliance with the secular constitutions to their abandonment of their brothers in Chechnya and finishing up with their abandonment of four-fifths of Palestine in Makkah.

The second is that I always differentiated in my messages between the political leaders of HAMAS and the Mujahideen of HAMAS and the rest of the Mujahideen in Palestine. I criticized the leaders of HAMAS and will continue to criticize them as long as they adhere
to the secular Palestinian constitution and as long as they don’t declare their abandonment of the Makkah accord. As for the Mujahideen of HAMAS and the rest of the Mujahideen in The Open Meeting with Shaykh Ayman al-Zawahiri As-Sahab 1429-2008 Pg. 12 of 46 Palestine, I supported them and continue to support them, and I call on the Ummah to aid them, especially the tribes of the Sinai.

Some criticized me as acting aimlessly, one time offering my condolences to the Ummah on HAMAS and another time requesting support for it, but this is not fair, for my words are clear, public and on tape. I offered my condolences to the Ummah – and continue to offer my condolences to it – on the political leadership of HAMAS, and I requested the Ummah – and continue to request it – to aid all the Mujahideen in Palestine, including the
Mujahideen of HAMAS.

So much for no allied beliefs and support.

Then of course there’s Hezbollah/Damascus/Iran. Another group worthy of a UN human rights award. That you do not consider either Hamas (majority power in Palestine since the 2006 election) and Hezbollah (the convenient proxy guerilla group for Syria), and their actions in the world, “hardline” is just breathtakingly naive.

Now we hear you believe the Iran-Iraq war two decades ago was merely about religion and suppression of Shia by Sunnis. What about the border disputes, the Arab vs Persian differences, the ethnic disputes? Not to mention the most likely reason for the war – a personal feud between Khomeni and Saddam. His Iraq, pan-Arabism quest sought to replace Iran as the area’s dominant power.

To bring down the Muslim battles to merely Sunni vs Shia is over-simplistic for convenience, and reflects a media soundbyte education. On the other hand, my bookshelf is full of books on Middle East history, acquired since 911. The relationships, ever morphing, are far more intricate.

Can you say “Islamist state”? That is my definition of “hardline”. Islamist states that seek the destruction of Israel, and removal of all western influence in the Middle East. I’d ask you what your definition is. But frankly, I don’t give a rat’s ass about anything you think.

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“…it’s hard to imagine him not being close to those abroad.”

Well, they are campaigning for him from Internet Cafe’s in Gaza.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21YF7ggCG6g

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Mata –

I see, so you purposely put out there something that was wrong to see who would notice it first?

You are a classic my friend.

You have, over and over and over again, like no other poster on this site, created stories as you go along. Just like this dodge about AQ. The fact is, you hear one person say something (or in my case type something) and you turn it into your own personal soap box over, and over and over again.

You claim that Barack will have to talk to AQ because he decides to talk to a Country whom Condi is already talking to. How do you contort reality so? Syria and Palestine are lead by hard line Islamists? And this is good enough to Zarwahiri to ally himself with them? You absolute ignorant person! AQ was developed in the first place because Osama and Z hated the Saudi Government!

You think that the Shia and the Sunni can put there differences aside to hate us and Isreal? Have you heard that there is a war going on in Iraq between those two exact setcs? Had you read maybe about the 1 million who died in a war between Iran and Iraq over Saddam’s Sunni Government supressing the Shia in Iraq?

Mata, with ever supposition on your part about what is going on in the Middle East it is very clear that you understand it on a very, very superficial level. So please leave the room while the big boys have a conversation.

Here is my beef. I am voting for John McCain. And as every person with a brain cell in the “proper place” knows McCain must separate himself from the retard in chief to stand a chance to win. The least popular president in the history of this country needs to shut his mouth. Do the photo ops with the African Drummers and shut up. When the chimp takes advantage of Isreal’s anniversary to compare the Terrorists with Hitler he proves to the world that he does not understand history, he does not understand the impertanance of bringing up Hitler in Isreal in any context but historical and he clearly does not care about the Isrealis as he interjects American politics into their celebration.

John McCain would do himself very well to generally disavow himself of everything that the president says from this day on and the President, who has sabatoged this party for decades to come would do well to just shut his mouth and limit the damage to the GOP to the seven plus years of lies, incompetance, and particularly arrogance as it regards his childish foriegn policy.

You Mata would do well to pick up a book every now and then instead of trying to learn everything on line.

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Good find yonason:

Here we have one of the most unnoticed Mullah promoters, someone who is allegedly a member of the Mullahs secret agent network (VEVAK), now living in the U.S. and said to be working in brainwashing people in Dearborn, on behalf of the terrorist regime of Iran, meeting with Obama. I would bet my bottom dollar that he has a message from his presumed bosses in Tehran for this Democrat candidate. But how come this isn’t being reported more widely?!

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And it isn’t just about what they MIGHT do in the future, but what they have ALREADY done in the past.

As close as Obama is already with America’s enemies at home, it’s hard to imagine him not being close to those abroad. (I think I know how they might try to come back at me with this, and am ready.)

But, for now, Good Night

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Now, now… We all know Centfla has had a rough time. He’s a McCain backer.

ThirtyMac: That cartoon you used summed up the situation perfectly.

MataH: You know what the problem is: our lefty friends don’t believe that the jihadis are seriously capable of achieving their aim of a world caliphate even though history has demonstrated they came damn near close at the at the gates of Vienna in 1683.

Our lefty friends are ignoring every warning sign like the declining birth rates of non-Muslims in Europe and the rapid immigration by Muslims and the rise in radicalism in those populations (not to mention the attacks they have already carried out or planned).

It’s a more comforting world view for them to indulge their anit-Bush prejudices rather than face that painful reality which is only been kept in check by the very people the lefties despise.

The seriuosness of the situation demands action, yet our lefty friends would handcuff the very people who grasp the danger and are acting to save us from it.

It’s frustrating trying to communicate to them what is at stake here and what their responsibility is as citizens of this country in unifying around and supporting a program that has proven to keep us safe.

And now, with this latest flap, their delusions are once again exposed. No wonder they are so desperate to obfuscate the matter and are throwing every one of their dark rhetorical gifts into the fray.

I encourage you to keep trying to enlighten those who haven’t been brainwashed by the false promises of Obama and friends. But just don’t expect much sense to come from our lefty friends. They have literally sold their souls to the Devil for the hope of political power.

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V-e-r-y s–l–o–w–l—–y, Aye Chi. I am well aware that the public school system has a great measure of success in dumbing down America. Aptly demonstrated by many here.

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Wow Mata,

I’m impressed.

You completed that entire post without using the hate-filled vitriol that we conservatives are so regularly accused of. You didn’t even use the word “retarded” in any form.

I wonder if CentFla will be able to understand it.

Did you type it slowly?

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Ah yes, I was waiting for which of the infamous tunnel-visioned posters would be the one to say: Nobody on this board is recommending talking with Al Qaeda.. Sound buzzer, CentFla wins. So read slowly yourself, CentFla. See if we can move a few of those brain cells from the rear end to the proper spot.

Middle East enemies and problems are not confined – nor exclusive to – Iran, Syria, Palestine, and Hamas. Just as they like to say Iraq, Afghanistan and AQ are intrinsically linked to ME peace talks between Israel and Palestine, none of these enemies are far apart from the Taliban, Hezbollah, AQ and ilk.

If you will notice with Zawahiri’s Open Forum… none of which I wager you read since it is too long and patched together to get it all quickly… there is a plan. And that plan includes all of what is currently the Middle East and the current players. There is a common bond between the Muslim countries. All have Islam as their religious majority. Some Arab states, however, are psuedo-democracy. Pakistan, UAE, etal. Others overt Muslim-dominated/ruled oppressive states.

Remember Zawahiri’s plan: Step one… get rid of Israel and the western influence. Step two, get rid of the un-Islamic Muslim governments.

Whether Hamas/Palestine, Syria or Iran, all are governed with oppressive Islamic law. Right now, they are tolerable in Zawahiri’s step one. These enemies already historically bond with AQ or anyone else in fighting the west and Israel. Then they will turn and fight each other for ultimate power.

Which brings us to the BHO “talking” foreign policy schtick and a wider view. Talk to Hamas, talk to Tehran. You make deals (foolish in itself, as said here by many), which cannot and will not be honored by the individual cells and organizations. Hamas and Hezbollah can’t control their own. Even Arafat couldn’t control Hamas.

None of these leaders will take action against their own rogue elements. Just as Saddam used jihad elements as a state weapon, Iran and Syria will do the same – and escape the primary blame. They will just take the Obama money incentives and perks, and use it covertly to advance their mission.

So BHO negotiates with the leaders. And what has been accomplished by your appeasements when their rogues do the dirty work, and the leaders merely shrug and say “hey, it wasn’t us!”?

You’re still having a hard time believing that Iranian born al-Maliki is genuinely battling Iranian elements in Basra (so far, with marked success). And he only does so because he loses power if the psuedo-democracy Iraq government does not remain legitimate. He’s no longer viable in the food chain of power.

Don’t we hear enough of your ilk whining that Pakistan takes our money and incentives, but doesn’t do enough in return to control their radical elements? How about Saudi Arabia? Now you want to add Iran and Palestine to that vintage “whine” list? At least Pakistan and Saudi are allies, not overt enemies.

To the wider view… which you choose to dismiss because you think so narrowly and ignore the global strategy… if BHO picks and chooses one enemy to engage (POTUS to chief-terrorist), and ignore another, it is hypocrisy. Why speak to Hamas – stated terror organization, Tehran – state sponsor of terror, and ignore the rest? Pray tell, just what is the difference between Hamas/Palestine, Tehran/Hezbollah and AQ or Taliban?

All are avowed enemies of the west, Israel and the US. They all have the same goal… death to Israel, and elimination of western presence in Arab lands. AQ has worked with Palestinians and consider them their comrade in arms against a common enemy. AQ has received aid, training and fighters from Iran. Why choose one enemy to speak with, and not another? Or is it only speaking to the first enemy in line, and starting a precedent?

Evidently the only one who can’t see the difference between these elements, and the goal of hardline Islamists in the Middle East, is you.

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