UPDATE:
It appears that ABC News’ Political Punch Blog has tried to confirm this story, and is claiming that Sen Obama’s story is true (though not told directly to him, but through a staffer). Readers are encouraged to not only read the ABC News comments, but the comments to the contrary posted here at Flopping Aces. They can be informative regardless of political orientation. -Scott
END UPDATE
Me thinks this little blurb will come back to bite Obama in the ass. Just my guess:
OBAMA: You know, I’ve heard from an Army captain who was the head of a rifle platoon — supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon. Ended up being sent to Afghanistan with 24 because 15 of those soldiers had been sent to Iraq.
And as a consequence, they didn’t have enough ammunition, they didn’t have enough Humvees. They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.
First of all, and correct me if I’m wrong on this Chris (seeing as how I’ve been out for 18 years) but the military rarely splits a platoon across theaters, maybe companies but platoons? Nope…..Secondly, Captains don’t lead platoons, they lead companies. Thirdly, on the weapons thing it may very well because the AK is just a damn good desert weapon that rarely jams PLUS having a weapon that sounds like the enemies and doesn’t sound like one of our M16′s is probably a pretty good tactic. They may be grabbing the AK’s but I’m doubting its because they are not getting supplied. Fourth, if they are so underequipped how in the hell are they able to capture all these weapons in the first place? Just going up and asking the Taliban for em?
I’m gonna call shenanigans (codeword for he is lying through his teeth) on these charges by Obama.
Oh, and one last note. It’s Congress that gives the money to the Military Senator Obama….not the Commander in Chief.
UPDATE
Great comments left by Chris and Caelestis who is in Iraq right now. Caelestis:
Now as far as personnel there is a thing called cross leveling where people that are not deploying are brought into a unit so that the unit can deploy with full strength. I know I just watched it happen in Hawaii with the 2nd SBCT 25th ID (I’ll explain what all those capitalized letters mean later Mr. Obama)….What you are describing doesn’t happen Mr. Obama because if it did happen, there would be an 0-6 and an 0-5 and a bunch of 0-4’s and especially one extremely pissed off 0-3 who would have screamed loud enough that even the NY Times could have heard them over your droning speeches to notice…..A Brigade commander that let something like this happen would have lost total respect and honor from every officer in his brigade,
and Chris:
Now as for weapons. No kidding we use the enemy’s when we can. The same is true for the initial invasion of Iraq. Ammunition is always a sought commodity, but there was no shortage of transports getting it to Afghanistan. HOWEVER, in the midst of a fire fight, ammo runs low and many Soldiers/Marines know how to use the AK series (AKM/AK-74 and SVD). Since a majority of US Military Members are gun owners/shooters and many are NRA members, we tend to learn all we can about weapons and teach those who are not hunters/shooters in our ranks. A light infantry unit can only carry so much ammo on extended missions. Air resupply is not always available while in combat (helicopters draw enemy fire for some reason) and ground resupply is not always able to get up the goat trails that comprise Afghanistan.
UPDATE II
I see the lefty reporter Jack Tapper from ABC has wrote a piece refuting this post. Apparently he talked to the man in question and we find out that this all happened 5 years ago. For the rest I will use Chris as my source seeing as how he is a active duty Major in the Army:
No corraborating evidence besides allegedly talking to the (former?) officer? Further more, no mention that M2s, MK-19s, and HMMWVs are not part of the 10th MOUNTAIN Division’s standard MTOE at Rifle Co level in 2003. They are light infantry… LIGHT means they walk. M2s and MK-19s were reserved for higher level weapons platoons, not rifle platoons, and those were man-packed. This means the weapons are taken apart and moved.
On the parts issue, with the influx of heavier weapons, the units probably did have trouble at first taking care of the “new” heavy guns. The M2 is not in production any more and all parts come from rebuilds or stocks. They also need more specialized tools and care than an M4/M16/M240/M249. The M2HB I had on my M1A1 was manufactured in 1943 for instance and in 1997 would have been down a long time if damaged due to lack of funding. This person said they had no problems with the organic weapons they had, but with weapons which the Army added from experience in theater.
Then we have the Pentagon refuting Tapper’s anonymous “Captain”:
The Pentagon on Friday cast doubt on an account of military equipment shortages mentioned by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama during a debate with rival Hillary Clinton.
During the face-to-face encounter on Thursday evening, Obama said he had heard from an Army captain whose unit had served in Afghanistan without enough ammunition or vehicles.
Obama said it was easier for the troops to capture weapons from Taliban militants than it was “to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief,” President George W. Bush.
“I find that account pretty hard to imagine,” Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters.
“Despite the stress that we readily acknowledge on the force, one of the things that we do is make sure that all of our units and service members that are going into harm’s way are properly trained, equipped and with the leadership to be successful,” he said.
Whitman’s remarks were unusual as the Pentagon often declines to talk about comments from political campaigns.
Of course with the “Captain” remaining anonymous its hard to come right out and say the man is lying since the Pentagon doesn’t have the particulars such as the dates, units, and other important info. With him remaining in the shadows its easier for Barack and his pal Tapper to just say “believe us” because well, just because. Which leads to this great rundown from Scott:
Some guy told some staffer who told Obama who couldn’t even repeat the story accurately. That’s the reality, the truth, and the facts.
UPDATE III
Remember Obama said this:
They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.
According to Tapper and his anonymous “Captain:
“The purpose of going after the Taliban was not to get their weapons,” he said, but on occasion they used Taliban weapons. Sometimes AK-47s, and they also mounted a Soviet-model DShK (or “Dishka”) on one of their humvees instead of their 50 cal.
Which jives with what all of us bloggers were saying last night. They were getting those weapons because they are good desert fighting steel. NOT because of a lack of weapon supplies which is the opposite of what Obama was alleging.
Allah links to the AP with this which should be pointed out:
Obama said the platoon was supposed to have 39 soldiers. A platoon does not have to consist of 39, but can have between 16 to 40 soldiers, according to standard Army unit organization. It is also commanded by a lieutenant and not a captain.
Finally Vets for Freedom just issued this press release:
Vets for Freedom questions the recent comments by Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill) in the Democratic debate last night, in which he stated that American troops were “capturing Taliban weapons because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than get equipped by our current Commander in Chief”.
“Yet again Senator Obama has demonstrated the loose grip he holds on the reality of these conflicts,” said Vets for Freedom State Captain, and Afghanistan Army veteran Daniel Bell. “Senator Obama’s comments are insulting not only to those who have served and are still serving in Afghanistan but to all who serve in the armed forces. I can attest from my first hand experience that these comments are incredulous and that we were supplied all the tools necessary to complete our missions.”
He continued “His statements last night assert that he lacks the necessary knowledge to make serious judgments on military matters, that he is prone to dangerous exaggeration, and that he is grossly unaware of the facts on the ground. I call on other veterans of Afghanistan to respond to these ridiculous allegations and to remind Senator Obama that it is the sacrifice of those serving in Iraq and Afghanistan that allows him to so freely speak in this manner.”
But I guess the main point of this whole thing should be the fact that Democrats, especially Democrats like Obama, wanted to cut funding to the troops and run like cowards from the fight but now want to use lack of equipment as some sort of attack against a war they wanted to defund anyway…..and THATS why they should be elected!
Yeah….
The part that the Messiah can’t spin away is that this is another case of the US military adapting and overcoming. It’s been going on since our inception; adaptibility has survived Presidents and wars, and is just as strong as ever. So while he votes against our funding, then talks of how the CiC can’t get us adequate equipment, talking out of both sides of his mouth so hard he’s coming in in Stereo, those of us in uniform just laugh, find what works, and keep going.
UPDATE IV
No one says it like Ace:
Tapper thinks his job is done if he merely talks to a guy making these claims; but perhaps he should actually do some actual reporting and find out if our army is being denied key ammunition in training.
The left has a habit of claiming victory when some small detail is corroborated. Obama fucking claimed our troops HAD TO — not chose to on occasion — capture the very weapons with which they were expected to fight the enemy.
Tapper gets a guy claiming “Yeah, once we took a captured Soviet heavy machine gun and used it on a truck.”
Then they say, “Ah-ha! You owe Obama an apology! He was Right!”
They did the exact same thing with Beauchamp.
Beauchamp claims that a guy picks up a child’s skull from a mass grave and dances around his fellow soldiers while wearing the skull as a fucking yarmulke.
One soldier says, “We found some bones, they looked like animal bones but maybe they were human.”
The left claims: Ah-ha! TNR had it exactly right! Apologize!
Really? What about that fucking shit you mentioned about wearing the child’s skull as a yarmulke while dancing around your commanding officer like Pennywise the clown?
Same thing here, it seems. Obama spins out a ludicrous exaggeration, some claims are found to support (if you credit the claim) a much more plausible version of the claims he made, which are as far from the original as the lightning bug is from the lightning, and… we’re wrong, we need to apologize.
Okay, whatever.
hE HAD NO CLUE WHAT HE WAS SAYING AMERICA IS IN TROUBLE IF HE WINS
No he didn’t say that , I can’t believe my lying ears. First A platoon is led by a Lieutenant not a captain. Second never has a platoon been broken up on assignment. There is so much wrong with what he said. what a colossal bunch of clap trap.
Good catch Jain, just updated the post.
What a crock of outright lies and BS!!!! Platoons are not split up along theater level lines. A Platoon is the smallest tactical element commonly employed. Normal Squads, which make up Platoons, do not go out alone unless covered by something big (Tank/Infantry squad teams for example).
Units are not halved for combat!! Units in Afghanistan were not used in Iraq and the two events occurred almost a year apart!! 10th Mountain went into Afghanistan fully manned. 10th Mountain was not used in Iraq. Also, all units have organic vehicles. Divisions are not stripped of vehicles for another theater operation. We have APS fleets to cover this (pre-deployed assets in Kuwait)!!! Obama should know about this as funding for the APS fleets are in the appropriations bills.
So on this aspect: FLAT OUT LIE by Obama!!!!!!
Now, as for Obama’s military skills, exactly WHAT captain leads a platoon?????? 2LTs lead platoons with a few 1LTs who might lead one as the senior platoon leader in a company, COMMANDED by a captain. Maybe this was a captain who lead a platoon years ago, however, Obama’s lack of knowledge betrays him. Even if Obama is not slandering/making up a story by the officer, it will be the first anyone I know of has heard about this lack of equipment and ammo issue.
Now as for weapons. No kidding we use the enemy’s when we can. The same is true for the initial invasion of Iraq. Ammunition is always a sought commodity, but there was no shortage of transports getting it to Afghanistan. HOWEVER, in the midst of a fire fight, ammo runs low and many Soldiers/Marines know how to use the AK series (AKM/AK-74 and SVD). Since a majority of US Military Members are gun owners/shooters and many are NRA members, we tend to learn all we can about weapons and teach those who are not hunters/shooters in our ranks. A light infantry unit can only carry so much ammo on extended missions. Air resupply is not always available while in combat (helicopters draw enemy fire for some reason) and ground resupply is not always able to get up the goat trails that comprise Afghanistan.
However, I know a captain who commanded in 10th Mountain in Afghanistan during the most intense fighting there and he NEVER had problems with lack of men, equipment, or ammo. But then, I am an Army officer who, like a VAST, near total majority of us, supports the war so my opinion is unwanted by the left.
The more Obama speaks, the more he digs holes.
Chris G,
The beauty of is- there are 8 1/2 months between now and Election Day. This gives Obama and his lovely wife plenty of time to dazzle us with his knowledge and rhetoric. Independents and blue dogs will be appalled.
As I look at that clip, I detect a hint of disbelief from Hillary. Too bad she couldn’t argue with him over the details because it would look like she was defending the military- a donkey primary no-no.
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This is “Change”?! A politician that can distinguish between his hat from his ass? We are in trouble. The only reason liberals like him is because he is “young and good-looking”. That is the extent of liberal thinking. Shallow.
The military will often on purpose use the AK to confuse the enemy. The two weapons, Ak and M-16, are distinctly different sounding, so the confusion often works. The weapon firing sounds can throw off the enemy as to exactly where troops are and who they are. Our guys have the communications, so they keep it together, the enemy falls apart chasing sounds. You often see special ops armed this way, if you pay close attention.
The rest sounds like make believe, since the public hasn’t a clue and the media won’t report — They are too busy fabricated the McCain sex story to care anyway.
O looked like he was making this up as he went along. My 5yr old daughter does that too when she’s caught stealing cookies from the pantry. Really, if the moderator had given him a followup and some more time…just how deep would his hole have been dug? Oh well, at least he didn’t say his plan for ending the war in Afghanistan is a submarine blockade.
Senator Obama – WHY Didn’t YOU vote to PROVIDE more supplies for the TROOPS? Sir, If you haven’t noticed CONGRESS controls the budget.
Senator Clinton – Why did YOU go to Iraq (Thanksgiving 2003) to tell the Troops that folks back home DO NOT support their mission?
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Just to be clear- 10th MTN WAS USED in Iraq; they had areas around Baghdad in 2006; one of my former Colonels commanded one of the BCT’s for it.
-Wolf
Why then, did Osama vote against funding the military?
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/1/votes/181/
This bill also funded the war in Afghanistan. Obama was one of the 14 that voted to let our troops scavenge the battlefield for ammo instead of being properly supplied.
I could see something like a specialized maintenance platoon or a CBR unit being split, but he specifically said rifle platoon so i have to agree with everyone else this is BS.
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This demonstrates such a COMPLETE ignorance of military operations and organization on so many levels that it very well could be a Mucacca moment come the general. Really, can anyone see this clip playing in a McCain ad where McCain (a Navy guy) explains that, “America is a nation at war, and we have a choice between a man who doesn’t understand the military, votes against equipment funding, then complains that troops don’t have enough equipment vs. a distinguished military hero.”
YouTube is gonna explode with this stuff in the fall.
But hhw can the Obmamessiah lie. He is for “Change” and gives people “Hope”. this must be a forgery.
/sarcasm
This is what all ofthe Defeatocrats are like. None of them know anything about how a war or how the military operates. this will bite him in the ass “big time” in the General Elections , unless somehow Hillary steals the delegates for the Primaries.
Change=dhimmitude
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He’s really going to have to bone up on that military stuff if he gets elected and decides to go through with his desire to invade Pakistan….
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0132206420070801?&src=080107_1442_DOUBLEFEATURE_dozens_dead_in_iraq
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Seeing as how I am in Iraq again right now, I thought I would add a few facts to counter Obama’s delusion…..Granted Afghanistan is a different beast but the basic rules still apply
1. Humvees….A unit falls in on the humvees belonging to the unit that they are conducting RIP/TOA with. That way the transportation system is free to ship more things like bullets, food, water, Strykers, and other assorted sundries of war. Humvees in theater have been in theater for a while, and as such there is little need to ship a lot of them….
2. Ok, so since our supply element ships 5.56 to theater and the troops are supposedly using 7.62mm ammo wouldn’t there be at some point a ridiculous overage of 5.56 so that if there ever was a shortage it lasted about a week? Conversely if our troops were arming themselves with AK-47′s in large enough numbers to conduct patrols, we must be killing a whole hell of a lot of taliban. Or making discoveries of huge cahces of weapons, or finding thousands of weapons and tens of thousands of rounds on the battlefield from retreating Taliban forces. All signs would point to a succees in Afghanistan that the media, the Democratic party, and the left wing blogosphere are all trying to cover up. I mean if our guys are using AK’s exclusively then what is the Taliban using?
Platoon split? Yeah ok, this is the most silly argument of all. First things first Mr. Obama; A 2LT commands a platoon, as does a 1LT in certain situations but he is usually a company XO as well. A captain commands a company, not a platoon. A platoon is attached to a company, which is attached to a battalion, which is almost always attached to a Brigade. Now as far as personnel there is a thing called cross leveling where people that are not deploying are brought into a unit so that the unit can deploy with full strength. I know I just watched it happen in Hawaii with the 2nd SBCT 25th ID (I’ll explain what all those capitalized letters mean later Mr. Obama)….What you are describing doesn’t happen Mr. Obama because if it did happen, there would be an 0-6 and an 0-5 and a bunch of 0-4′s and especially one extremely pissed off 0-3 who would have screamed loud enough that even the NY Times could have heard them over your droning speeches to notice…..A Brigade commander that let something like this happen would have lost total respect and honor from every officer in his brigade, and since you don’t know anything about the military Mr. Obama, I’ll forgive you this one time…..To military people respect and honor are as important as the air they breathe…..I expect you to show a little respect and honor for the military and either prove your statement or retract it…….but hey I’m just a veteran and defense contractor currently in Iraq that is proud of his country for so many things, I know in your eyes I am not the change you have been waiting for…………
Chris: Thanks for exposing Obama’s empty suit rhetoric to the light of experience and reality.
I’m not sure how deep the light will penetrate into those who worship at the Obama altar and who have already forsworn any independent thought, but have, as other commenters suggested, eight months to chip away at the false idol Obama represents.
Thanks again Chris. For your service to our country both ON and OFF the field of battle.
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Wolf,
I meant the 2002-03 deployments when we supposedly “took our eye off the ball” in Afghanistan to go to Iraq. 10th Mountain went to Iraq after refitting from Afghanistan when their Afghan tour was over. But I understand your point and apologise that I was not specific (it was 12:30AM when I saw the post and became livid).
As the 101st, 3ID, 3rd BCT/1AD, USMC, and other heavy units were in the initial drive through Iraq (with 4th ID following), there was no need to pull units from Afghanistan.
Sorry for the confusion on that. I was upset at the ignorant and unchallenged remarks of Obama and was not specific enough.
As for the ammo issue, I remember being a PL, ASST S-3, and XO in Germany (97-2000) when we had barely enough ammo to qualify personal weapons once a year and had to cross-level tank ammo to qualify the battalion. I also remember the field grades worrying about our lack of available OPTEMPO miles (funding for vehicle maintenance and operations is based on so much $/mile/year) and having to restrict tank movement for funding reasons. We went to Bosnia in 1998 and it was a CO Grade ART-15 event if a round broke lose from a magazine and was lost! Whether the last was due to lack of funding or fear of scandel by the senior officers is debatable.
I also remember ammunition plants closing in the 90s and the government scrambling to buy civilian ammo even as the remaining factories spun up over the last few years (just in case anyone was wondering why .223/5.56 and .308/7.62 NATO ammo went up in price). The “Peace Dividend” cost us in the end…. You would think we would have learned by now that just because we disarm and dismantle that no one else will.
Caelestis,
Stay safe and if you are still deployed later this year, we might meet as I got my W.O. for deployment this week. Knowing my luck, I will deploy in July on the hottest day….
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One thing to remember every time one sees or hears a leftist reprt on some combat zone problem,
there are an awful lot of phony stories and people running around. Here are a few examples, that are Reported
“The case against a former political official who claimed to be a prisoner of war was also spotlighted Friday.
Former Army Spc. Michael Heit, a former chairman of the Constitution Party of Montana who ran for a seat in the state legislature, pleaded guilty to two counts of filing false DD-214s to VA and the Military Order of the Purple Heart in 2005.
The forged discharge documents claimed Heit was a decorated Vietnam veteran who earned a Bronze Star with combat “V” and three Purple Hearts. He also claimed he was held prisoner by North Vietnam from 1969 to 1972.”
If one want to know how high these phony claims reach, just look at Sen Harkins D-Ia , claimed he flew combat missions in Vietnam. Never did.
The last Presidential campaign featured a leftist that either couldn’t record dates in a personal diary correctly or didn’t know how he received his first band aid. Either didn’t know where he was on a Christmas in a combat zone,or wasn’t where he was supposed to be. Either wasn’t aware of who the President of the US was on a certain day or ?. Had a device awarded which was awarded to no other American, or some fouled up orders. Has an award signed by an Admiral who claims he never signed the form. Had a some very strange discharge/release days.
Here’s one thought on Him ”
“As a correspondent pointed out to me in an e-mail, each episode of the HBO series Band of Brothers, begins with a voiceover in which the narrator says of the World War II soldiers portrayed in the program: “I was not a hero, but I was surrounded by heroes.” In contrast, what John Kerry is saying in essence about his “band of brothers” is that “in Vietnam, I was a hero, but I was surrounded by war criminals.”
When dealing with leftists and their stories about the US military, one can not trust them, and they create so much garbage, it is virtually impossible to verify them
Here’s another take. Our Armed forces are so good, they can defeat the enemy without ammo. We just take theirs away from them.
Obama is an idiot and a lightweight.
ChrisG, I’m sure tactics have changed in the last 30-40 yrs but in ‘Nam squads would do 24 hr patrols. Sometimes less than squad strength KATs were used.
Tom
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Phony Vietnam vets. “The remaining unconfirmed 125,812 probable Vietnam War service personnel do not account for the 9 million plus Americans, as of 1995, who falsely and fraudulently claimed to be in-country/in-waters Vietnam veterans. As of 2005 the number of Vietnam War claimants has grown. A repeat of The American War Library”‘”s 1995 national survey in 2005 reported that a greater number — 11,104,005 — (a 71.68% increase over ten years) of Americans since 1995 claimed to have served in Vietnam (In-Country/In-Waters), and 2,591,083 Americans claimed to have served aboard a U.S. naval vessel in Vietnamese waters (between 1955 and 1975). The total number of Americans claiming in 2005 to be eligible or possessing authorization of the United States Vietnam War Service Medal (Reference #7) is 13,695,088.” Article
I last posted this on this site on 21 Jan 08 during a discussion about homeless vets.
How many phony stories can 9 million phony leftists tell? Who knows-they have evidently already told at least 9 million of them.
“, DOD also published a subsequent report that listed the probable number of true Vietnam veterans to be 3,001,012. This number was based on 281,104 American military record files that indicated possible in-country or in-waters Vietnam service either prior to 1963 or after 1974.”
To make it simple 3,001,012 of us were there–9 plus million more claimed they were but weren’t.
D’Oh – It turns out that Obama was right after all:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
Eat crow y’all.
Curt, my husband is active duty and on his way back from Baghdad this weekend. I sent him the quote from Obama to which MSG Proctor replied:
What a load of crap, Obama! If he wanted to make a point that the military is stretched, fine, but don’t lie to make a point. He should have at least fact checked.
I’m still skeptical, and here’s why…
-Obama said the guy was a Captain, but now we find out that he was (more realistically) an Lt 5yrs ago. Clarification is good, but it still shows Obama didn’t know what he was talking about enough to say it clearly.
-Obama made it sound like the ammo shortage was in combat, and this article makes it sound like it was more a stateside training issue. That’s not surprising given that the US was fighting in at least six different countries at the time.
-Up-armored HUMMVs (to my knowledge) weren’t really a big deal until the roadside bombs became a big deal starting in 2003/4.
-For all we know this could be another Scott Beauchamp; sourcing needs to be better
-In every account I’ve read about 2001-2003 in Afghanistan, the forces are described as very well-equipped (and I’m talking first hand accounts from when the first Green Berets and air controllers arrived in 2001, through Operation Anaconda, and beyond). It just doesn’t mesh with what I’ve read and what I’ve been told.
Still sounds doubtful imo
No Crow will be eaten today Auster, except maybe by you in the end.
I read your link and have to wonder if this Soldier also let his guys run over dogs with an M2 IFV or laughed at contractors.
No cooraborating evidence besides allegedly talking to the (former?) officer? Further more, no mention that M2s, MK-19s, and HMMWVs are not part of the 10th MOUNTAIN Division’s standard MTOE. They are light infantry… LIGHT means they walk. M2s and MK-19s were reserved for higher level weapons platoons, not rifle platoons, and those were man-packed. This means the weapons are taken apart and moved.
On the parts issue, with the influx of heavier weapons, the units probably did have trouble at first taking care of the “new” heavy guns. The M2 is not in production any more and all parts come from rebuilds or stocks. They also need more specialized tools and care than an M4/M16/M240/M249. The M2HB I had on my M1A1 was manufactured in 1943 for instance and in 1997 would have been down a long time if damaged due to lack of funding. This person said they had no problems with the organic weapons they had, but with weapons which the Army added from experience in threater.
Also, see my comments above on the closing of the ammunition plants in the 90s and the scramble to re-tool and upgrade them since.
Futhermore, why did this reporter use an Army study guide page for the MK-19 reference? It is not like a simple search would reveal better sources.
Your link does nothing but add the “Beuchamp” factor to the mix.
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Amy,
As I said above, the VAST, near total majority of us in the US Military who support the war are ignored by the left and the media. As you have probably found, the same applies to our spouses and true supporters.
Instead when deployed we rush to call our families every time the media fabricates a story about IED/VIEDs/Rockets/attacks in our AOs. My then pregnant wife had to listen every night to stories that my area had been hit by something which supposedly killed obscene numbers of us. Luckily, we had email and the ability to call so she could get almost immediate relief.
As my wife said last night: Obama’s statement does not even make sense, let alone sound true!
But then, as an Army wife, she and you have had more of a military education than many.
EDIT:
To all of our leftists reading from a linked in story. I guess the stories from the MILBLOGs and Soldiers who support our actions do not matter, but you circle the wagons for the TNR fiasco and others to blast us.
But do not let that interrupt your fantasies and hatred for all things conservative.
Hey all you screaming ranting “experts” – check out Jake Tapper’s piece. He gets in touch with the Captain who verifies the story. Now of course, I will assume you wills et out to prove the source wasn’t really in Afghanistan, or he voted Democrat or some such slander.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
Don’t let the facts get in the way of thje truth guys. Because the truth hurts. The story has been fact checked and Obama was right. The Captain in question was a Lieutenant at the time. I quote:
“Prior to deployment the Captain — then a Lieutenant — took command of a rifle platoon at Fort Drum. When he took command, the platoon had 39 members, but — in ones and twos — 15 members of the platoon were re-assigned to other units. He knows of 10 of those 15 for sure who went to Iraq, and he suspects the other five did as well.”
check out the link yourself. and pull your heads out of your asses:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
Wally, Frito, Auster, give it up.
Reality, truth, facts are all alien concepts to this crowd.
This is how it works: Obama (or any Dem says something). “Its a lie!”, shouts the right. The facts are produced. “The media is lying!”, shouts the right. It’ll never end.
But who are ya gonna believe? Me or your lyin eyes….
Some guy told some staffer who told Obama who couldn’t even repeat the story accurately. That’s the reality, the truth, and the facts.
Ah, the drive by trolls. Did not read a thing above did you? Would you like to come with me on my next deployment? Or would the “reality, truth, facts” be too much for you to handle?
Maybe all of us Soldiers who think this officer has issues with his story, as does the ABC “factchecker” who uses a study guide for a weapons reference and no other evidence from the unit’s deployment, are just “evil conservatives”.
Sorry, Obama’s quote was BS and this “fact checking” story is BS, just as it is pointed out in that story’s comments section.
So, now that the Captain confirms everything Obama stated, are you going to correct your post and admit your error?
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
I think I will take the word from real soldiers that put their name out there, not some anonumous Captain. As most o f the earlier commentors are in the military and everything that Obama said seems to be false. I can see them using the weapons that they get from captured Taliban, great use and is a great disguise. they do sound different and it is better to not be know that you are out there. And it is against regulations to split up Platoons like this.
Wgo do you believe someone that says their name and is actually in combat or some un-named Captain that the MSM finds. Also look at the Reportes of fake soldiers. TNR has Beachamp and many stringers form Iraq and Palestine are part of the enemy.
I still think it is a crock. The problem is not that what he said isn’t strictly true, it’s the fact that the impression is entirely innaccurate.
1) I challenge you to find a unit that didn’t have shortages during training. And I mean ever. We had shortages when I trained for Bosnia, we had shortages at basic, and we had shortages in my train-up for Afghanistan. Would I have liked every one of my guys to fire at AT4 before I got in country, sure, was it going to happen? Hell now.
2) Humvees are chronically short. I’ve never heard of a unit in history that had everything they requested or wanted. Precious few even made it in theater with what is on the TOW, again, embrace the suck, Shi’ite happens.
3) The unit being split and sent to 2 different theaters, and people being reassigned to different units are 2 entirely seperate animals. While BHO’s comment could have been interpreted either way, at the very least it appears he insinuated they were split and sent.
You all have grown so accustomed to swallowing whole the ceaseless braying of the conservative message machine that you have grown immune to facts.
The Obama campaign produced the guy who went on record folks! Obama didn’t make it up. He didn’t say he spoke personally to the guy. He said he heard from a captain who commanded a platoon.
You all invented a lie that wasn’t told and then refuse to believe it wasn’t a lie . . . . sheesh.
Let’s just face it. Obama is a Romulan sent back in time to destroy Star Fleet Command which as we all know, history shows was created during the John McCain/Michelle Malkin Presidency.
For proof, just take a look at Obama’s ears and compare it to the Vulcan on Voyager.
Great work Kurt!
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Really.. In your next sentence:
Logical fallacy anyone?
And the captain did not go on record. Not even for the fact-checker.
So, to use your own words: You all have grown so accustomed to swallowing whole the ceaseless braying of the leftist message machine that you have grown immune to facts.
Several Soldiers and even spouses have responded above with what we believe. But we do not matter to you.
Sorry if that sours your kool-aid.
I REPEAT comment #35 “So, now that the Captain confirms everything Obama stated, are you going to correct your post and admit your error?”
What is his name and where was he at???? Who was his senior officer???? Inquiring minds want to know. Why didn’t object to this before being deployed???
I wonder if he is going to bring his name out into the Public in 24 hours also???? Or is that 24 business hours???
It checks out. The troop diversion point which is more important definitely checked out. You can parse the weapons story anyway you want but it’s not important as the troop diversion to Iraq.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
I hope he keeps stepping in it. He needs to be shown for the incompetent he is. mcvain is a stretch to vote for but he will be 100 times better as the POTUS than this liberal lefty clown. All osama/obama will do is attempt to destroy the military in his zealots belief that drawing it down and hobbling it will make our enemies like us. Sorta like what led to the ammo shortage ChrisG mentioned during the klintoons reign of terror. The klintoons and osama/obama really are a xerox copy of each other. And right now this country can’t afford another 4 years of “talking” to enemies whom have repeatedly sworn to destroy us. To bad our politicians can’t be as honest as they are.
Love the drive by trolls who don’t even read the previous comments-just wig out partisan bashing instead. Best so far is Moderate Conservatives though. That was wonderful. We read on ABC that some guy told a staffer who told Obama a story that Obama couldn’t even clearly repeat. Anonymous, 3rd hand source should be enough to cast doubt in an intelligent person’s mind, but not if one is only out to toss out some anti-conservative hate. Nah. For those people, it’s read a talking point at Huffpo, Buzzflash, Bartcop, Truthout, or KOS and then flame away. Why bother opening-one’s mind to possibility that the mighty messianic Obama could be wrong or that his logic flows in direct contrast to comments from real military officers?
Better to believe KOS that someone who has served.
Better to believe a DNC talking point than to bother looking at facts.
Better to rant (drive by post) than to discuss (requires actually reading the previous posts which explain why people doubt Obama’s statement was correct).
I find it interesting that so many on the far left come here and rant about conservatives, or Republicans and make allegations of partisan blindness, then ignore 2 things:
1) the allegations are almost always incorrect
2) they demonstrate their blindness themselves by not reading the discussion-just post and run
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Hey Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF,
While I would defend your right to speak your mind, I think that it’s disgusting and dishonorable for you to equate Osama with Obama. I would think that someone that claims to have served in our Armed Forced would find such a tactic foul, and below them.
Enjoy your day “MSgt (ret), USAF”
These leftist useful idiots are all linking to the same site and not reading the comments ON that article which refute it let alone the comments here!!!
I would say I am amazed at their idiocy, but I am not, just disgusted.
Cecile, I answered you, as did Amy, as have others.
You have your answer and NO, I will NEVER vote for a Democrat in this election and I AM active duty Army.
Have a nice day.
The story appears to check out:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
1) According to Tapper @ ABC, the officer states that ammo shortages persisted while deployed in Afghanistan. The parts shortages applied to their MK-19s and .50 cals. The officer told ABC that they used AK-47s and DShK on occasion, since they couldn’t keep their weapons working.
2) Sure, I’ll agree that Humvees are ‘chronically short.’ If, however, this platoon really had to use Toyota pickups to get around, the problem goes far beyond Humvees, don’t you think?
3) He didn’t say that the unit was “split.” He told ABC that soldiers were reassigned, in ones and twos, and that he wound up deploying a platoon at approximately 2/3 strength (24/39). I find this completely believable.
Now, if I may offer a point of my own….unless some of the veterans posting here served in fairly high-level commands, we should keep in mind that situations and environments can be radically different from unit to unit, city to city, etc. I have the utmost respect for your service (I’m a veteran of the volunteer military, though I never saw combat), but serving in Iraq doesn’t mean that you’re an authority on conditions in Afghanistan, or even Mosul vs. Baghdad, unless you served in both locations. Serveral of my friends (and former comrades in the Guard) are Iraq/Afghanistan vets, and even being deployed 50-75 klicks apart makes for radically different experiences.
Anecdote verified by Jake Tapper:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
Don’t let the facts get in the way of the truth, indeed. Idiots.
Oh, and for all of you complaining that the Captain didn’t go “on the record”…what do you think would happen to an officer who DID go on the record with comments such as these? Anyone here remember LTC Tony Herbert?
Actually, I have served in Brigades, Battalions, CORPS and above CORPs since we finally decided to respond to repeated attacks by the islamofascists.
I am in communication with people in Afghanistan daily, though Iraq is more my focus.
Wesmorgan1,
LTC Tony Herbert wrote his book decades ago. How about the FBI agent who wrote “Unlimited Access” or the offcier who who “Deriliction of Duty”? Now, what about the Haditha Marines and their treatment? No one on the left believed them. Many still do not, yet many of them were aquitted when it was found out they were set up.
Oh and leftists, we got the link. You may want to read into the comments section of it where readers refute things withing the “factchecker” report.
You all have lived in a No Fact Zone echo chamber for so long you cannot admit you are wrong. You may not LIKE the truth – in this case that the candidate you do not support was correct in his criticism of the war effort – but you cannot deny the facts.
The issue isn’t merely capturing weapons and equipment but DEPLOYMENT. Last time I checked, Dubya commanded the armed forces of the USA. Am I mistaken? Should a junior senator from Illinois have input into deployment decisions?
It is clear that the FUBAR situation that is Iraq is the responsibility of our current president and his shortcomings as a leader.
By the way Chris. I ‘heard from’ my mother last night. She left a five minute message on my voicemail about her knee surgery. I didn’t talk to her directly. We didn’t converse. She told me an anecdote about her life which I then retold to my wife after prefacing it by saying . .. I heard from my mother . . . .
Get it? It’s not that hard. No logical inconsistency except that which you choose to manufacture.
Cheers.
That’s IT! No WAY am I gonna vote for George Bush this fall!
“It is clear that the FUBAR situation that is Iraq is the responsibility of our current president and his shortcomings as a leader.”
Speaking of Capts and their stories; http://www.floppingaces.net/category/jamil-hussein-story/
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Hey Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF,
While I would defend your right to speak your mind, I think that it’s disgusting and dishonorable for you to equate Osama with Obama. I would think that someone that claims to have served in our Armed Forced would find such a tactic foul, and below them.
Enjoy your day “MSgt (ret), USAF”
Hey jer, dishonorable? Are you freakin kidding me? Barrack Hussein Obama is dishonorable in his using this third hand account of a situation which occurred what 5 years ago. Barrack Hussein Obama is dishonorable as he voted NO on the funding bill while our TROOPS WERE IN HARMS WAY, in essence creating this supposed situation. Who the hell did Barrack Hussein Obama think under funding the troops was going to hurt, President Bush? Barrack Hussein Obama is as dishonorable and corrupt as any seasoned congressional whore. He has a charles manson like ability to hypnotize the leftard morons with his commanding speaking voice, spewing platitudes and empty rhetoric intended to satisfy the leftie liberals need to feel good about themselves. He has no ability to lead the greatest military in the world as he has shown by his total disregard for their safety and success. As for calling him osama/obama, well I’m only repeating what teddy the swimmer kennedy called him. So sue me. My service to this country doesn’t prevent me from speaking my mind or saying whatever the hell I want. At least I defended that right, what have you done?
Back on topic, was the unit this “absolute moral authority source” assigned to active, Guard, or Reserve? I would think that if it was the latter two, the dividing up of the manpower would make sense.
I was in the 3d ACR when I was active duty, and spent time in Baghdad, Tal Afar and Mosul. In OIF I, we were at more than 100% of our MTOE, but we deployed for OIF III with a little more than half that*. My fiancee, who was slated to ETS in July ’07, is now back in Iraq with the 101st and stop-lossed through mid 2009. Her platoon deployed with about 50% MTOE, and about 25% of critical MOSes. They’re slated to be up to about 80% later this month, after four months in theater.
When I got off active duty, the Army owed me about $3400, which I declined to stick around to collect, because I had orders retroactively rescinded because the Army ran out of money. They would eventually have payed me back, of course, but they’re running so close to the wire these days, all sort of critical tasks get delayed or just not done.
Basically, this story doesn’t sound like hogwash to me, and I’ve heard enough like it to feel I’m not alone. I also don’t understand why posters on here seem to think everyone in the military “supports the war” – I’m not sure what exactly this is supposed to mean, but if it just means we all want to “win”, then of course we do, but so does pretty much everyone. If that’s to mean that everyone favors indefinite extension of OIF, then that’s just incorrect. It’s not an accident that Obama and Paul’s campaigns have gotten the most military donations.
Personally, I think we should either pay what it would *really* take to get serious about this thing, or start winding it down. It sounds to me like Obama wants to wind down Iraq and get serious about Afghanistan. I hope that’s not just blowing smoke.
*This was possible because they counted a lot of “dead weight” on the MTOE that they didn’t the first time, so on paper we were close to full strength but about a third of those weren’t mission-usable.
Sad that you cover your dishonor by heaping on yourself more of it.
Hey “Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF”, this is your country. It includes the left and the right. Blacks, Arabs, Whites, Hispanics, Jews, Christians, Atheists, Gays, …” It includes Barack Obama.
Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF. Love it. Or leave it.
Just a note on the Factchecker:
Jack Tapper is the author of Down and Dirty: The Plot to Steal the Presidency
So I have to wonder how unbiased he is.
Jerry,
Does that include the leftists at ANSWER/Move-On “anti-war” rallies that hold signs stating “Death to Israel”, “Death to Zionism”, “We Support Our Troops When They Shoot Their Officers”, and a multitude of others?
Somehow I do not see the tolerance in the left at all, yet in the “Bush Police State” these groups, along with “Iraqi Vetrens Against the War”, who are violating US Code by trying to get Sodiers to oppose the government in time of conflict, are allowed to exist.
And yes, Jerry, I fight and lost friends for your right to be a leftist who is blind to the clear and present danger islamofascism (or the Islamic Holy Warriors, or whatever label you wish) poses.
Have fun storming the blog and read some other articles in the Archive like “Why Iraq” which I wrote while deployed.
There is a blog for everything, including equipment debriefings for the conflict in Afganistan.
http://www.geocities.com/usarmyafghangearproblems/
I would say from that blog the officer that Obama talked to didn’t adapt well. I don’t know how he made captain unless he is now a desk jockey.
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Hot air hugh?
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html
nato wrote:
Regarding Ron Paul supposedly getting the most military donations:
Sad that you cover your dishonor by heaping on yourself more of it.
Jerry, I’m just not getting what the above means. I have never dishonored myself or my country. Can you say the same?
Hey “Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF”, this is your country. It includes the left and the right. Blacks, Arabs, Whites, Hispanics, Jews, Christians, Atheists, Gays, …” It includes Barack Obama.
Theresa, MSgt (ret), USAF. Love it. Or leave it.
Jerry, again what the hell does the above have to do with my response to your criticsm of me calling the pinhead osama/obama? As for loving it or leaving it jer, I would give you the same advice. Plus the addendum that if YOU LOVE IT, defend it and stand up for those who DO, instead of lapping up the constant lies and slander the left, including the democrat party leadership, has heaped on our brave men and women protecting your whiney asses. Screw osama/obama. As stated previously he is incompetent and full of nothing but platitudes. He’s done nothing during his tenure in congress and is trying to sell his message of hope and change as if he created the concepts. Hey if it seems to good to be true and all that. Later jer. Have a good day.
And global warming is a big liberal hoax.
Did any of you people even graduate high school?
“It is clear” ” Iraq is the responsibility of our current anti American leftists who as Senators and Representatives have refused to fund the war properly. The American leftist Senator who carries the latest classified intelligence to Syria:
“ROCKEFELLER: No. I mean, this question is asked a thousand times and I’ll be happy to answer it a thousand times. I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq, that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11.”
Article
The US leftist senators and Representatives who refuse to provide the funding necessary for our troops to carry out the mission. Both current Democrat candidates voted against the current funding package.
The MSM who print the enemy propaganda without even bothering to check it. The protestors
blocking crossing at ports to block military suppies from getting to American forces. The Anti American protestors who block entrance to recruiting stations. The list goes on and on, seemingly forever.
Gregory,
Thanks for the weblink. I remember seeing printed out AARs from Afghanistan and Iraq but that link added more research. I cannot justly describe the enormous efforts put into Afghanistan by the PEOs in making sure we have the best equipment for the AOR.
Doug Watts,
Yes, graduate college also with an Engineering degree and masters work. “Man Made” global warming is a hoax, and a very profitable one for people like Al Gore (and his zinc mine and petroleum stocks). The Earth, however, warms and cools in cycles which have been properly measured and does so without human intervention. “Man Made Global Warming” has become a religion/cult among the left.
And not to say that Obama is not a great speaker. He is. He is also a nice guy from all accounts. However, his views on foreign affairs, defense, and burdening the US with the failures of socialized medicine, higher taxes, and others mean I will not vote for him.
The Pentagon, in a rare public remark on a political campaign, doubts Sen Obama’s statements.
Link To Story
I wonder if I should go to the left’s blogs and copy paste this as I drive by attack?
Yeah Chris, sadly it includes the dipshits at Answer. Why do you think I am a leftist, just because I disagree with a douchebag like you and Theresa? So yeah, our country includes all types of people. People with their heads on straight like me, and dipshits like those at answer and floppyaces.
It’s one thing to refer to them as dipshits, and another to refer to them as some sort of people not worthy of America or not worthy of our Bill of Rights or our defense.
Thank you for your service. Is your service any different from that of the millions of Democrats that have served our country? Apart from your demands we bow down to your enormous monster penis, I don’t think so.
So now I am a “douchebag” because I am an Army Officer who opposes Obama and thinks his story is full of holes? Wow… I’ll have to go cry now.
Thank you for proving what a fool you are. And I demand nothing from you, nor has anyone in the US military EVER demanded anything.
Excuse me while I do not bow down to you and ignore the rest of your infantilism.
ChrisG, would love to go with you if/when you redeploy, but age, weight and cigarette smoking probably precludes that. As for eyesight, that’s what they make scopes for! Maybe it’s best I stay here and keep an eye on your six.
Theresa, those who have never served will never know the “feeling” that comes with it.
A Veteran – whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The “United States of America”, for an amount of “up to and including my life.”
That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.
– Author Unknown
Tom
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Time to weigh in again, since the story is 5 years old (at least), then how could the troops have been diverted to OIF since OIF hadn’t started 5 years ago………..Of course it sounds like they were PCSed, if that is the case, then Obama is being devious and coy. PCS’ are quite normal and if the unit in question had already deployed once, a 30% turnover is pretty low by Army standards.
Secondly the officer backs up the claim that they never needed ammo from the enemy which is the crux of Obama’s tale….Here is the money quote from Tapper’s article “The purpose of going after the Taliban was not to get their weapons,” he said, but on occasion they used Taliban weapons. Sometimes AK-47s, and they also mounted a Soviet-model DShK (or “Dishka”) on one of their humvees instead of their 50 cal.”
Obama’s quote was this…..”You know, I’ve heard from an Army captain who was the head of a rifle platoon — supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon,” he said. “Ended up being sent to Afghanistan with 24 because 15 of those soldiers had been sent to Iraq. And as a consequence, they didn’t have enough ammunition, they didn’t have enough humvees. They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.”
So basically Obama is objecting to normal PCS movements, soldiers adapting to the mission on the fly, and the fact that one platoon did not have enough training rounds………..
I gotta tell you the chow hall talk is turning to politics over here and people are afraid of Obama, Mccain at least understands us. I would say I’m shocked that a stunt like this was attempted by the Obama camp, but I’m not shocked, since the general public doesn’t understand the military, it is quite easy for someone like Obama to tell a half truth like this…………
Reading Comprehension wasn’t taught to you whining pukes I suppose:
Prior to deployment the Captain — then a Lieutenant — took command of a rifle platoon at Fort Drum. When he took command, the platoon had 39 members, but — in ones and twos — 15 members of the platoon were re-assigned to other units. He knows of 10 of those 15 for sure who went to Iraq, and he suspects the other five did as well.
Pretty clear he was a LT at the time…you all are a bunch of idiots anyway. Say hello to President Obama you losers!
I’m going to smack the next brain dead lefty trolls who links to the Tapper piece and says some variation of case closed.
We read it, we linked it. We still have questions and you know the reasons why. Can you say Beauchamp?
Frankly, debating whether the Capt. is legit or not is a distraction from the main point and that is: Obama is not experienced enough or fit to be Commander in Chief.”
If he was soooo concerned with properly equipping our troops, why did he vote against funding them?
YouAllAreMorons,
You fail to read any of the comments, let alone the Pentagon’s refutation of Sen Obama’s source and say we have a reading comprehension problem? Do need to look in a mirror.
The hate from the left is only exceeded by their arrogance and ignorance.
I have clicked on several leftist website links. Congrats on doing your master’s bidding in coming here and attacking use with your bile.
And Obama has to win the primary first. And IF he wins the Presidency, then he will have to bring more than pretty words.
Caelestis,
You are up early today! It is 3 friggen AM in Iraq! Get some sleep. The trolls will still be here.
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ChrisG
Hush little one..it will all be over soon enough. You can’t stop the inevitable…especially with an old worthless piece of garbage like McCain. LOL the best part is that all you repukes are screwed and you know it.
It’s a done deal…might as well begin preparing your crying about the Obama presidency now.
CHEERS CHUMPS!
Wow… What a moron.. Hate filled and ignorant.
So ABCNEWS talks to the same guy, one single source, to ‘verify the story’.
If this ‘army captain’, lied to Obama’s staff, of course he is going to lie the ABCNEWS.
Did anybody verify with the US ARMY that this guy is really an Army officer?
Did anybody verify that this guy actually served in combat?
A story with a single unnamed source – is not verified.
I think we have to wait those 24 business hours to get his name. Maybe the same day that John F’ing Kerry publishes his records
It looks like Obama didn’t understand what the “Captain” was talking about and makes him look foolish and this is who the Left is anting as CIC. Amazing.
It still looks like shenanigans to me if the Pentagon comes out and says they have no idea about this. Maybe if the “captain” would come out ans say who his is and, maybe we can get to the bottom of this. I’m thinking Beauchamp all over again though.
Yes, graduate college also with an Engineering degree and masters work.
Well gee, Chris G, have you considereded submitting your stone cold stunner refutation of AGW to Nature or Science? I’m sure they would love to publish it once it passes peer review. As a scientist you should know that you sound like a total idiot if you deny an entire body of established, proven science but are afraid to submit your refutation to the appropriate professional journal.
You sound like one of those old cranks from 1968 who vehemently denied plate tectonics and clung to eugeosynclinal model of mountains being formed by upwarping due to the massive accumulation of sediments in adjacent troughs.
I don’t disagree with the ability of our military to achieve military goals.
OIF was a strategic blunder for a personal vendetta (‘he tried to kill my daddy’)~and we’ll still have mil personnel being blown up if we stick around 100 years like McCain wants to.
Obama wants to scale down our blunder (OIF) and upscale the Afghani operations and also in Northern Pakistan.
I’ll be voting for him in the fall.
“Then we have the Pentagon refuting Tapper’s anonymous “Captain”.
The pentagon is refuting? That settles everything. After all, they would NEVER lie…
Obama was characterizing very ordinary things as a deficiency.
Most Platoons will hhave about 30 men (especially light infantry units).
They will never have enough Equipment (especially tranport).
They will use field expediencies (especially in combat).
They will use and admire captured equipment (trophies).
Upon scrutiny he’s not really saying anything.
Doug Watts,
I also join a growing number of real scientists who objectively refute your cult of Gore. While we are at it, great job on the “new ice age” prediction fiasco rebound. But I am an Army Officer, not a scientist and this thread is about Obama slamming the President over a lie which the Pentagon and other Soldiers are refuting.
But to the left, we do not count because we oppose socialism and its lies.
Yawn – this is typical Warpublican bluster -
Of course Bush has been a failure as a CinC – and the Pentagon has been proven a liar. But the yabos who call themselves Patriots are now gathering around a guy who promises them 100 years of occupation – and they want to parse Obama’s claim that there’s shortages in our war effort! And they still support our playWarrior of a president!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/31/60minutes/main652491.shtml
“I also join a growing number of real scientists who objectively refute your cult of Gore. While we are at it, great job on the “new ice age” prediction fiasco rebound. But I am an Army Officer, not a scientist and this thread is about Obama slamming the President over a lie which the Pentagon and other Soldiers are refuting. But to the left, we do not count because we oppose socialism and its lies.”
Most people on te left See Obama as a centrist because he repeated the Harry and Louise ads against Clinton’s ealthcare plan.
My ideal candidate would be for single payer and pro-war–like Blair. The Labour party in the UK were in favour of cecking Hitler well before Conservatives in teh UK saw the German asshole as a threat. Personally, I don’t see antiwar American people as serious socialists. They will quickly split apart once they have no war to bitch about. You have nothing to fear from the socalled left in America with Obama leading them.
Dec 2001, Osama Bin Laden escaped Afghanistan
15 months later, US invades Iraq in Mar 2003
How does anything-even if true-that was done to the military in Afghanistan re resources have anything to do with not getting Osama Bin Laden (the big reason for the war in Afghanistan) 15 months earlier?
So many hate-filled, angry, dismissive, deliberately ignorant (choosing to ignore earlier comments) people. Somehow I’m not seeing a lot of “open-minded”ness from the “liberal” left. Could it be such people aren’t really open-minded(liberal), and are just paranoid (seeing conspiracies everywhere)? Could it be they’re just not strong enough in will to try and look at their own house before trying to clean up someone else’s? Could it be Daily Kos or some other extremist website linked to FA? …OR perhaps there’s a shortage of anti-schizophrenia medications right now? In any event, I blame Bush and vow not to vote for him this fall.
It’s also humourous to see you get agitated about Obama ending the war.
He’s not going to end the war in Iraq. He said as much in the debates when he cross examined Edwards about where the QRF Edwards proposed to base in Kuwait could just as easily be based in Iraq anyway–he called a base in Kuwait and a base in Iraq as a dstinction without a difference. He appeared, at least to me, to be suggesting that he intends to base US troops in Iraq in various remote bases for the forseeable future.
Shit, all the British needed in the 20s and 30s was a squadron of biplanes and sacks of grenades to occupy Mesopotamia.
Obama will keep the occupation going. He’s a military illiterate or he’s just playing to a dumb crowd who don’t know any better.
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Hmmm…wow, that’s amazing. A discussion about Sen Obama’s incorrect comments yields attacks on Senator McCain and false claims that he want to keep the war in Iraq going for 100yrs…when he REALLY said (sans the selective editing, half-quoting, and cherry-picking of statements from people who are partisans not patriots) that he’d be willing to keep US forces in Iraq for 100yrs as long as they weren’t dying. Then he used the examples of the US occupation of Germany, Italy, Japan, and ROK to make it even more clear. That means either those hate-filled people who are saying Sen McCain will keep the war going for 100yrs are either complete morons or straight up liars. In either event….they demonstrate their mettle.
Thanks Chris and I work nights, gotta get ready for the sumer and being nocturnal is my way of surviving the heat that is to come……….
bottom line: Most vets and active duty can smell garbage a mile away and this story is garbage. The Proof: Comments dissecting Obama’s quote are being deleted at an alraming rate over at the ABC blog where High Priest Tapper is holding court…………
“How does anything-even if true-that was done to the military in Afghanistan re resources have anything to do with not getting Osama Bin Laden (the big reason for the war in Afghanistan) 15 months earlier?”
er…well anyway, the occupation of Afganistan is all about Bin Laden.
“So many hate-filled, angry, dismissive, deliberately ignorant (choosing to ignore earlier comments) people. Somehow I’m not seeing a lot of “open-minded”ness from the “liberal” left.”
I’m a socialist. I think Obama is barely left of center. He widely suspected to be in favour of privatizing social security, his healthcare plan would probably lead to private accounts, and he’s proposing that the military be expanded by 100,000 infantry.
“Could it be such people aren’t really open-minded(liberal), and are just paranoid (seeing conspiracies everywhere)? Could it be they’re just not strong enough in will to try and look at their own house before trying to clean up someone else’s? Could it be Daily Kos or some other extremist website linked to FA? …OR perhaps there’s a shortage of anti-schizophrenia medications right now? In any event, I blame Bush and vow not to vote for him this fall.”
Obama represents the schizophrenia of the left but not in the way you are suggesting. He has a raft of privatization measures and a garnish of antiwar hysteria. It’s unholy. Dkos is n’t really left wing btw…it’s merely pro Obama…most of the socialists there were defeated or banned.
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So the Socialists are not Socialists? Kos and DU will be surprised and shocked.
Black is White
Freedom is Slavery…
Dan, I agree with most everything you said shy of the suggestion (deliberate or inadvertent) that Kos etc aren’t socialist, but I think we can agree they’re left of center and beyond moderate. I’m comfortable with that consensus if you are
Btw, I hear there’s a medication you can get that cures socialism, but it’s too expensive to be covered under Universal Healthcare plans.
Good post Dan-sincerely
“Dkos is n’t really left wing btw” No it’s far to the left of left wing.
Caelestis,
I know the staying cool feeling of post 2000hrs in Iraq. As I said above, knowing my luck it will be July or August when I get there this time.
After reading your post, I went back to the ABC link and noticed that most all of the center to right wing comments (most anyone who disagrees with or pokes holes in the story) are deleted. Telling.
“So the Socialists are not Socialists? Kos and DU will be surprised and shocked.
Black is White
Freedom is Slavery…”
The Obama people have successfully gutted the call for Universal Healthcare over at Dkos. He’s suggested merit pay for teachers his followers agree. He’s said that social security is over and that private pensions are better than social security, he’s in favour of globalization, and he reckons the New Deal is not worth defending. Dkos has gone along with that conservative message. He’s not a socialist and is followers are not socialists. The only socialist in the race was that very wierd little man called Kucinich (a completely oddball character who makes things like single payer look like the brain wave of one legged lesbian vegans). Blair is a good socialist. He defended Labour’s domestic legacy and went to war when called for.
I guess obama didn’t follow all of Alanski’s direction. And to think I thought he was a Socialist. How bad of me. He was a centrist all along.
Obama voted against funding the troops because he wants to war to be over, and it was mainly a symbolic vote because there’s a very small chance they’d actually LOSE funding. Also, you think it’s Congress’ fault that they didn’t have body armor at first? Or that there isn’t enough ammo? Get real. Unitary executive for the lose.
Also, who do you think APPOINTS the people who work in the Pentagon? What are they going to do? Say OH YEAH, THE PRESIDENT IS A STUPID IDIOT. No, but you guys are.
Oliver North is standing in for Sean Hannity tonight on Hannity and Colmes and they are covering this story. What’s interesting is that the news media is FINALLY starting to fact check what Obama has been saying to these mesmerized cult followers of his.
There may be more to this story than what has been presented in defense of Obama by Jake Tapper. The biggest factoid which hit me was that this story was supposed to have taken place YEARS ago. But Obama is presenting it without that context… HIGHLY MISLEADING TO SAY THE LEAST!
P.S. Ron Weasley: Aren’t you past internet curfew at Hogwarts?
you call the Fox news channel NEWS? lol
“you call the Fox news channel NEWS?”
OK… so now we know you’re a loon and we can ignore anything else you have to say…
NBC is reporting that the person was an Army Captain a West Point Grad. One of his platoons was at 39 soldiers when sent to Afghanistan only 24 were available. The ammo shortage was during training. The weapon that was missing/replaced was a turret mounted gun.
AS I have said before proper analysis can only be done with an absence of emotion.
And you call the NY Slimes news??? At least Faux News puts both sides of the debate on, unlike most of the MSM.
Nice argument Mike…very typically conservative. Something right out of O’Reilly’s stupid mouth actually…
John Ryan,
That analysis and more was made dozens of posts above. We made it again and again here and others on their sites which were all spammed by leftists.
Wow Fox news has you eating out of their hand man, putting “both sides of the debate on” is really just a way to APPEAR fair and balanced, but have you actually WATCHED some of those debates? They’re jokes.
You can parse the weapons claim but that’s not important. What is definitive and more important is that troops were pulled from Afghanistan to Iraq while they were hunting for Al-Queda. Nobody in their right mind can say getting Saddam was worth losing a shot at Bin Laden. Saddam wasn’t going anywhere. He had no place to hide. He could wait his turn.
“I guess obama didn’t follow all of Alanski’s direction. And to think I thought he was a Socialist. How bad of me. He was a centrist all along.”
Alinsky was a Poseur. He even had a cartoony Russian name. He has no legacy. Obama has embraced all the Market Solutions. e’ll even keep troops in Iraq. There are a couple of tough guys in Europe and Canada who actually got the job done. None in the US. Obama is a non entity as far as left wing policy goes.
“You can parse the weapons claim but that’s not important. What is definitive and more important is that troops were pulled from Afghanistan to Iraq while they were hunting for Al-Queda. Nobody in their right mind can say getting Saddam was worth losing a shot at Bin Laden. Saddam wasn’t going anywhere. He had no place to hide. He could wait his turn.”
They were never committed in any great number in the first place. Not so much pulled out, but with held. Afghanistan is not a target rich environment. Dost Mohammad’s biography would be a good model. Turn former enemies into allies. The Afghans only want fresh supplies of modern weapons to murder each other with.
Weasley: You’re not a serious individual. Go back to Daily Kos and leave this discussion to the adults.
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“er…well anyway, the occupation of Afganistan is all about Bin Laden. ”
Sure Dan, and the occupation of Iraq is all about getting Saddam? Nah. It’s more like UN1483 sec 1-4 which mandates that the US stay in Iraq until it’s secure and stable.
btw, loved JT’s post. That was great! UBL was gone 15 months before the invasion of Iraq, but somehow he escaped because of the “shifting of forces” for an event that took place 15 months later? Yeah, right. Get a history book, please.
BTW, Senator Warner has written Sen Obama asking for details and clarification on the matter for a hearing to be held in regards to his comments at the debate. Gonna get interesting.
are you ever right about anything?
g,
If you are referring to our trolls… No, they are not. Well versed in their spoon fed left wing propaganda and hate, but rarely, if ever correct about anything.
If you are referring to the writers here. Yes, we make every attempt to be correct on a story or correct it if not. Considering we have to use the decidedly left biased and unreliable news media as our primary source, this becomes difficult.
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Part of CJ’s post at A Soldier’s Perspective:
The ABC blog didn’t prove anything. This is a story from 2003! Why would Obama bring it up as if it were current? Because he’s deceitful. The lefltists are on a full frontal assualt to protect their Messiah. They’re acting like religious zealots whose God has been made into a cartoon.
This is such an easy concept. Obama “mispoke” if you want to call it that, but when the military community is outraged we have a right to be heard.
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Flopping Aces – “easier for Barack and his pal Tapper to just say “believe us” because well, just because”
George Bush – “I think he dispersed them. I think he is so adapted at deceiving the civilized world for a long period of time that it’s going to take a while for the troops to unravel. But I firmly believe he had weapons of mass destruction. I know he used them at one time.”
This is different how?
Good one, Sherlock. That was the moneyquote of all moneyquotes. You sure stuck it to us good.
Bill Sherlock,
Because we did find evidence in Iraq that they had been dispersed and sent out of country.
See the difference?
Uh-oh….now you’ve gone and done it, Chris.
Link to story? My mind remains open, but it must be a credible news source.
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“but it must be a credible news source.” which automatically eliminates all MSM sources.
Bill,
Too Easy. In fact, within this post I wrote while deployed in Iraq and reposted on FA are several links.
http://www.floppingaces.net/2007/10/26/why-iraq/
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Come on Bill… You really don’t want to deny that Saddam had WMD do you? Read the Duelfer Report!
Or just look at this photo:
Getting back to the ‘Stan, and away from WMD in Iraq.
BS has been called on Obama’s single source for information on US Army supplies in theater.
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2008/02/twweeeetttt-fla.html
All the drive by trolls that have found their way here, prove the importance of this matter. When your web site is plagued with trolls you can rest assured that the story hit a nerve. Theresa thank you for your YEARS of service and know that the trolls can not take away your honor or dignity. Flopping aces has arrived. Proved by the number of dead head trolls who strolled by to leave their vile. Congratulation guys you are there. Please keep up the good honest work.
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On the subj. of Obama’s comments on the “depleted platoon”, I am embarrassed and annoyed by the absolute ignorance and emotional drama queens that occupy this blog space. To pick apart Obama’s comments and twist them into a spiraling negative facade, is a talent that resides in the very media you and I watch, and plagues the weak minded to leaving emotional statements as most of, before this one, all of you have. When the sense to see that Mr. Barrack was defending the well-being of the U.S. military has left us, it is a sad day indeed.
Now….with that being said, lets get to the reality of things that are absent, sadly within some of our troops that posted here, in most peoples knowledge.
YOUR commander & chief requests and sets the AMOUNT of funds that CONGRESS does “control”, or what I like to say, spreads thin to cover all necessary items needed in the war. As it was so elequently put, congress does divy out the funds, but when you have a set amount, you do the best with what you have.
Obama’s vote against funding the war: please tell me you guys arent this stupid??….a vote against funding was a vote to STOP the war, (please do not branch off into WHY you think we need to be in IRAQ, thats another debate) to the typical feeble minds that obviously flock here, it would SEEM that Obama was being hypocritical, losing a legislation voting, does not mean that you want the army/marines to be ill-equipped, cmon people….since the war is proceeding anyways, Obama was simply pointing the fact of INSUFFICIENT funding that essentially comes from george w.
I can only hope that at least some of you will research yourself and have the capacity to realize whats really happening.
Scrap- Has Obama voted to fully fund the Defense budget?
I am not talking about the War supplementals which he voted against, but the regular Defense budget, the one which provides the ammo for stateside training.
FYI – Funding comes from Congress, not the President.
Scrap- Congress can gave the Defense Dept MORE money than the President requests.
So, if Obama thinks the Army is underfunded, He should have worked to get the Army more funding.
“Mr. Barrack was defending the well-being of the U.S. military” I’ve been around the US Military for over fifty years. I can not imagine any current Democrat Senator who would defend the well being of the U.S. military. We’re depending on Aircraft that were on duty when I entered the USAF in 1956 to defend our nation.
“The B-52 has been an enforcer of U.S. policy since joining the service in 1955. Now it’s the oldest combat plane in the force. The H models in service today first flew in 1960 and 1961. It’s the grandfather of the strategic bomber force — a Cold War relic.”
Check the votes for defense spending, see if there is a single one where Democrats, such as John Kerry, or Sen Obama voted to support the U.S. Military. Sen Obama, IMO, would be willing to turn the defense of this country over to the Nation of Islam, before he would spend a dime to support the U.S. Military.
I don’t think the guy actually commanded a _rifle platoon_ at all. I think he was in one of the Cav units in the 10th. That would explain a lot. Cav troopers taken from one unit slated to go to Afghanistan to guard forward bases and put into the Cav unit sent to Iraq which was going into a real firefight.
And I still don’t know how you mount a dishka on a Humvee without tearing apart the gun turret.
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Scrap said” “Mr. Barrack was defending the well-being of the U.S. military”
That’s why he voted against the very support, weapons and ammunition he is now complaining about?
And Scrap: Please point to me where Obama said that the incident he is referring to took place in 2003?
When viewing the video of his statement I got the FALSE IMPRESSION that this was a CURRENT problem.
Perhaps now you understand why Obama’s statement raised so many red flags?
Senator Obama is already bringing people from both sides to work together and he’s not even President yet.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/warner-to-obama-bring-me-your-captain/#comment-680285
Warner to Obama: Bring Me Your Captain
By Leslie Wayne
One of the dramatic moments in Thursday’s Democratic debate came when Senator Barack Obama — in making the case that Iraq was the wrong place to launch a war — cited an Army captain in Afghanistan who told him of a rifle platoon that lacked manpower, ammunition and Humvees. As Mr. Obama recounted, the soldiers looked for captured Taliban weapons as it was easier to be armed that way than “to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.”
Conservatives pounced on the story, questioning its authenticity. Senator John Warner of Virginia, the ranking Republican and former chairman of the Armed Services Committee who has endorsed Senator John McCain, wrote to Mr. Obama on Friday seeking more details. Senator Warner wants to find out of the story is true — and, if so, who might be responsible for any lapses. He said that he will also raise the issue with Army Secretary Peter Geren and Army Chief of Staff William Casey when they testify next week before his committee.
In the letter, which begins “Dear Barack,” Senator Warner said that the incident most likely occurred while he was chairman of the committee, whose members also include Senator John McCain and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.
“There are specific military regulations governing the use by U.S. forces of weapons other than of U.S. manufacture, and, likewise, regulations covering the deployment into combat zones of military units at manning levels below optimum level,” said Mr. Warner.
To establish accountability within the military chain of command, Mr. Warner is asking Mr. Obama to provide more facts about the incident cited in the debate — the dates, the unit involved and the name of the captain and other military personnel who provided the information to Mr. Obama.
“As you well know, we in Congress, under our Constitution, have explicit duties to provide for the welfare of the men and women in our armed forces and members of their families,’ said Mr. Warner. “We have no higher calling.”
Earlier in the day, reacting to the criticism from conservative bloggers, the Obama campaign made the Army captain available to ABC News. The news organization reported that it interviewed the captain — which it declined to name — and concluded: “He backs up Obama’s story.”
The Obama campaign issued a statement about Senator’s Warner’s request late yesterday: “Senator Obama is glad that this issue is getting the attention it deserves, and looks forward to working on a bipartisan basis to ensure that our troops have the training and resources they need.”
Urban Rev: I’m going to repeat this, because apparently you and your buds that are so proud of Obama fail to understand the point:
Please point to me where Obama said that the incident he is referring to took place in 2003?
When viewing the video of his statement I got the FALSE IMPRESSION that this was a CURRENT problem.”
And are you proud that Obama voted against funding for the troops???
The Xerox’d sloganeering and empty rhetoric you folks have swallowed like Kool Aid at the May Day parade is getting a bit stale.
At some point you’re going to have to come up with some substance.
Meanwhile, I say again: Obama is giving the MISLEADING impression that the story he recounts is recent.
Focus on that word “MISLEADING.” Is that the “change” you folks want?
“Earlier in the day, reacting to the criticism from conservative bloggers, the Obama campaign made the Army captain available to ABC News. ” Army captains now take orders from the Obama campaign? An unnamed Capt is available to ABC News. A news service which has zero credibility after their reports from the Iraq War, and the Bush White House years, is all the sudden going to reprt the truth to America because some unnamed Capt told the same kind of war stories that have been told since the days of the Romans ( I didn’t have enough supplies, I didn’t have enough what ever).
“Senator Obama is already bringing people from both sides to work together and he’s not even President yet.” As near as I can tell, the only people brought together so far are the Communist Party of America and the Nation of Islam. The rest of what’s going on looks like the same old story,we’ve seen since Vietnam, Some people defend America and some defend who ever is against America. Those who are supporting Sen Obama, IMO, are not the ones putting their lives on the line every day to defend America; just like those who put their lives on the line every day in Vietnam, were not the ones defending Kerry, IMO.
Pagar: Right you are about the left’s newfound respect for ABC’s Jake Tapper. Just a few weeks ago Tapper slammed Bill Clinton who suggested we should slow down the U.S. economy:
http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/01/31/bill-clinton-we-just-have-to-slow-down-our-economy-to-fight-global-warming/#comments
He wasn’t the left’s darling then.
Maybe his recent efforts are an attempt to repair the rift.
Obama is on of the most arrogant pretentious people in the world. He is so condescending when he talks. How can this guy ‘unite’? This guy is not change, he is just more arrogance.
“Senator Obama is already bringing people from both sides to work together and he’s not even President yet.”
Notice it from the tabloid paper, the NYT. Talk is cheap.
Why was 129 deleted did I use profanity, I’m at a loss.
Jain,
Reply #129 made by you is there.
“Those who are supporting Sen Obama, IMO, are not the ones putting their lives on the line every day to defend America”
This sentiment is very strange to me. Perhaps I’ve just had a very strange military career, but Obama is fairly popular amongst the soldiers I know. My fiancee calls every Sunday morning (mission permitting) and this Sunday was no exception, and I mentioned this story. She immediately asked if I had related how her platoon had deployed at about one-third strength (and as it happens, is being lead by a fresh O-3). I said I had, and asked her if 101st was as hostile toward Obama and Democrats as posters here seem to assume. She seemed a little stumped, and seemed skeptical of the honesty of some posters.
I suppose it’s possible that it’s just self-selection: those who comment on this blog are the those whose experience of the Army is one of homogeneous suspicion of Democrats. The people I really don’t understand are those who 1)seem to think that the military is getting what they need to accomplish a reasonable mission and 2) seem to assume that those who suggest otherwise are non-military people who don’t know what they’re talking about. According to a recent Foreign Policy/New American Security poll, 41% of active and retired officers believe the military is broken, and 88% think it’s stretched dangerously thin. Only 19% think the US has gained the most from the war in Iraq, but 37% think Iran did, 22% think China, 13% Russia, and only 3% Iraq. That’s from a non-partisan poll, not an echo-chamber.
I think McCain will do a much better job than this administration, but I wonder how that can be if so many seem to want to insist there’s nothing wrong and anyone who suggests otherwise is an anti-military liberal ignoramus.