Perfect non-answer as usual Steve. Now, as stated before in previous topics, these methods are only used after ALL others are exhausted and these methods were reviewed by congress and there was no problems then.

So, oh “brilliant” progressive elitist, what is YOUR solution?

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Oh cool!

Stevie is back and still avoiding the difficult questions just like always.

(They’re in #6, #7, and #16 on this thread just in case you need a reminder.)

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Re: “btw, I’m against torture. I think when a person’s caught shooting at American troops, and they’re not wearing a uniform then they should be simply asked questions once, then shot on sight per the rules of capturing a spy.”

However that is not the circumstances under which Americans are tortutring prisoners now. Citing as justification circumstances that do not apply to the situation at hand is desceptive.

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[...] Curt blogged Wednesday on Mukasey’s claims that waterboarding is not clearly illegal. [...]

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I wonder how long a poster like Steve would last if they went to DU, KOS, or any leftist blog and spouted the same nonsense he does, but replace “conservative” with “liberal” or the far more accurate “leftist”?

My guess is one to two posts. Yet here he is, repeatedly spewing hatred and lies about conservatives, even to the point of making the insane charges he continues to make on this thread. One would think that fact alone would open his eyes to the fallacy of his claims and the his blind allegiance to the left.

But that requires shedding his ideological chains.

But back on topic. No one advocates torturing children and US Military in Iraq and Afghanistan have lost their lives holding fire to protect children. Hate-filled leftists like Steve, with is fanatical bile and vitriol, cannot see this simple fact.

As stated before, these tactics are last resort and only used when important information could be gained (like where Osama’s lead officers are in Pakistan… unless that missile which killed them yesterday was the Power-Ball lucky shot).

And as also stated in previous posts, Congressional dems had full knowledge of these programs and policies and had NO problems with them until they could make political hay with their equally hate-filled base on it. Also, reading through the Law of Land Warfare, these terrorists fail to meet the qualifications of legal combatant and are subject no protections.

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Somehow, I don’t see a six year old girl as being a criminal mastermind of a Islamic extremist terrorist cell that’s planning to build bombs on planes and have them simultaneously explode over the Atlantic, BUT HEY…maybe on Steve’s planet that happens.

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Poor Steve.

All those gyrations, permutations, equivocations, and wild unfounded statements just go to prove that he is talking out of his ass again.

Still no direct answers to the questions posed in #6 or #7. Guess he doesn’t have the stones. Who knew?

More flopping and flailing and twisting on display when he said that some here are “screaming to “torture everyone”".

Um, Steve, let’s begin again. This time with a really, really easy one and I’ll type it slowly so you can follow along with reduced difficulty. Show me where anyone “here” has screamed “torture everyone”.

That should be simple for you. Single website. Small amount of info to filter through.

While you’re working on your research project can you cite for us any comment where the poster is in favor of “torturing children” because I’m really still curious about that.

Then, once you have completed (and failed) in your attempt to support those assertions we’ll know for sure from where you are speaking.

By the way, I have the cajones, or the stones if you prefer, to answer a direct question. You asked if I would be in favor of torturing a six year old girl. The answer is no.

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“There is not one single Conservative with the moral fortitude to say “torture is wrong”, without the “Bush escape clause” that has served so many others over the years.”

Actually, it’s not a conservative bit. That’s almost verbatim Senator Barack Obama’s latest comment on the torture issue, and it mirrors at least one of Senator Clinton’s comments.

btw, I’m against torture. I think when a person’s caught shooting at American troops, and they’re not wearing a uniform then they should be simply asked questions once, then shot on sight per the rules of capturing a spy.

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Re: “Here’s a photo of the Library Tower in L.A.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j191/mikesamerica/us_bank.jpg
That building is still standing because we waterboarded Abu Zubayda.”

I see the picture of the building. Where’s the picture of the bomb?

Re: “By the way, can you cite any credible source of information which would lead you to believe that anyone would be willing to torture children?”

To quote Conservative dogma, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence” Conservatives here are screaming to “torture everyone”. I do not see a single post where they add “except children”.

So my direct question, if someone pointed to a six year old child, and told your “informant” that her father was going to plant a bomb, and she was the only person you had, would you torture her?
My betting is your answer will be, “Yes, enthusiastically!”

Re: “Aside from Mike’s example, there’s also a case where a German police captain saved the life of a boy who was buried alive, with the mere threat of torture to an uncooperative kidnapper. The police captain was fired, but because they did not have the luxury of time, his actions saved the life of the boy. ”

Re: “I notice that you totally evaded, ignored, or missed the questions that I posed to you in post number 6 and 7.”

A known action (kidnapping) had taken place. In the Conservative Hollywood world, they always “see” the bomb being planted, as well as the person doing it, before the first TV commercial. Then everything is OK.

In real life, authorities do not “see” any bomb being planted. They just have informants, who may just be settling old scores telling them things. And every single Conservative here would be willing to torture those who are fingered in such a way, just to honor the memory of the TV movie “24″.

IF you can document, without a doubt, that a bomb had been planted.
IF you can document that the person in front of you had planted it.
IF you can document that the bomb, if it goes off, will kill people or cause massive damage.

Then, I could forgive someone who goes ‘beyond the limit” in getting an answer.

However Conservatives believe that if.

PERHAPS there is a bomb somewhere
PERHAPS the person in frot of you might know something about it
PERHAPS the bomb, if it exists, might cause damage

The any form of torture on any person is justified.

Torture has been justified in “defense of the state’ on vague gounds such as these for centuries. And Conservatives have a tradition going back to the Spanish Inquisition (where waterboarding was practiced) to uphold.

There is not one single Conservative with the moral fortitude to say “torture is wrong”, without the “Bush escape clause” that has served so many others over the years.

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As far as calling “waterboarding” torture….I’d say there are gradations of what we might label as constituting torture. There’s a difference between, say, sleep deprivation, and scooping someone’s eyeballs out with a spoon.

Can any of you Conservatives cite an actual, documented case, where a real ticking time bomb (just like in “24″) was found?

Aside from Mike’s example, there’s also a case where a German police captain saved the life of a boy who was buried alive, with the mere threat of torture to an uncooperative kidnapper. The police captain was fired, but because they did not have the luxury of time, his actions saved the life of the boy.

This is mentioned about in Mark Bowden’s piece, In Defense of Waterboarding. It’s a fair and balanced piece, which basically has Bowden (author of “Black Hawk Down”) believing that torture (including waterboarding) should be illegal, but is morally justified in extreme cases where time is of the essence. And in case anyone misconstrues his position, he also offers a clarification. It’s worth the read.

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